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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Phodgetts on Tuesday 22 December 09 21:10 GMT (UK)
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Hi all, anyone out there interested in unusual things?
I have a picture of Blyth Northumberland's High Ferry, a chain ferry which crossed the River Blyth from Cowpen Quay to North Blyth / Cambois. On the North Blyth side of the river is a signal which has nothing to do with the surrounding railway lines, the signal is purely for the ferry. Has anyone seen anything like this before, or does anyone from the area remember it and its use?
Any info gratefully received.
Philip
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I suppose the signal is for road traffic waiting to go down the ramp to the ferry.
About 50 years ago, there was a branch line in Worcester ("The Vinegar Branch") which had level crossings on which the road traffic was controlled by semaphore signals. There is something about it here (about 2/3 down the page). Somewhere I have a magazine of the crossing in action. http://www.steamindex.com/gwrj/gwrj7.htm
I seem to recall that some swing bridges had a signal to control shipping.
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Thanks for the pointer Geoff. I have never heard of this practice / method.
I looked up your info and came across this site with pictures of the Vinegar Branch signals, one a corker with a car waiting as a train passes by.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~mercurytravel/notebook/232/notebook.htm#shrub
Thank you very much :) :) :) :) :)
Philip
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Thanks for the link Philip :) I hadn't realised exactly where it went. It seems to pass within about 50 yards of our son's house.
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I believe that this practise was rare in Britain, but much more common in the USA where the signal was usually a raised and lowered ball. Was the ferry owned by the railway company? If so, that would be a very strong pointer.
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A 'Today' picture of the location for comparison would be very interesting to see. The long gone railway is still traceable to the river, by the line of trees and curve of the buildings. Are the long flat roofed buildings those that appear in the view down Shrub Hill showing both signals in the dropped position?
I have marked just below the line of the railway in red. The red cross is the location of the crossing.
Philip
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I believe that this practise was rare in Britain, but much more common in the USA where the signal was usually a raised and lowered ball. Was the ferry owned by the railway company? If so, that would be a very strong pointer.
I don't believe the ferry was owned by what was BR at the time of the photo, and I don't think the LNER owned it prior to WW2 as it is not marked on a 1934 LNER property map I have of the area. It is simply marked as High Ferry. It was owned and operated I think by the Blyth Harbour Commision. When the ferry was not in use it seemed to be kept at the Harbour Commision's own dock. There are pictures of it at the BHC dock. A fascinating subject.
Philip
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The entire area is rooted in the very origin of railways, so it would be unsurprising to me if at some time early in its history the harbour was not at least part owned by an early railway company. From the red line shown on the picture, it would seem that the line was industrial terminating at a siding,probably owned by a company.
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The Port of Blyth (previously Blyth Harbour Commission) was an independent trust.
http://www.portofblyth.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=65
It has never been owned by a railway company, though it has worked in harmony with the railways of the region since their first inception. Here is a link to a historical photo of the ferry on the Port of Blyth website in its context to the ferry signal and the staithes on the North Blyth side of the river.
http://www.portofblyth.co.uk/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=54&catid=2
Yes, the red line on the map of Worcester marks what was the Vinegar Branch, which did terminate within a short distance of where the end of the red line lies.
Philip
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The link;
http://www.portofblyth.co.uk/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=54&catid=2
hasn't worked how I was anticipating. When you arrive at the page, just click on the Chain Ferry image. How times have changed for the area since the picture was taken.
Philip
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A direct link to the ferry image http://www.portofblyth.co.uk/images/zoom/history/Chain_Ferry_Blyth.jpg
Back to Worcester again - some more photos here (modern ones) http://www.miac.org.uk/heenan.htm
and a sketch map here http://www.miac.org.uk/vinegarmap.htm
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Thanks Philip, I think your statement about working in harmony with the railway effectively confirms my point, though of course the ownership was independent. The signal as pictured is showing its rear aspect, which on Britain's railways would be black and white. Does anyone know what the colours were on the other side of the signal. On a railway the signal as shown would not affect traffic in the direction of travel.
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I'm sure the signal at Blyth was simply to stop traffic waiting to board the ferry. Traffic disembarking would do so as quickly as possible without need for special permission.
Roger: Your avatar presumably shows Mayflower on a Grimsby - King's Cross turn ... did they change crew at Boston? Was it always an Immingham engine? I think it was. I remember one day in the late 1950s my auntie and uncle took me for a drive, then we crossed on the ferry from New Holland to Hull. Standing in one of the platforms all afternoon was 61379. I see it was only introduced to traffic in June 1951 and "lived" for only 11 years before being scrapped at Donny. http://www.britishsteam.com/PHP/-ln_user.php
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I wondered whether the signal was to alert an operator in the cabin to wind the ferry back again.
It seems too close to the cabin to be used by vehicles approaching the ramp. Just a thought.
Cheers
Guy
PS The clarity of the signal from across the river could also support this, if an operator on the other bank had to winch out as his/her companion winched in.
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I wondered whether the signal was to alert an operator in the cabin to wind the ferry back again.
It seems too close to the cabin to be used by vehicles approaching the ramp. Just a thought.
Cheers
Guy
PS The clarity of the signal from across the river could also support this, if an operator on the other bank had to winch out as his/her companion winched in.
I have given that theory some thought too. There was only one signal and that was on the North Blyth side of the river, which would substantiate the 're-call' of the ferry to the north shore. I also note the height of the signal, which was possibly deliberately low so that train drivers in the vicinity could not see it and make a mistake, perhaps in the dark....... could really do with a response from a surviving user of the ferry. Perhaps I ought now to post a link to this topic in the Northumberland section of the forum.
Philip
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The clarity of the signal from across the river could also support this, if an operator on the other bank had to winch out as his/her companion winched in.
I thought that with a chain ferry, the chains were fixed and the ferry "cogged" itself along the chains to achieve movement.
In places where the ferry trip is longer, fares are collected on the ferry but with a shorter crossing (as at Blyth) it would seem there was a ticket office with a bench for foot passengers. The signal appears to be a few yards in front of the bench and at a suitable height to be visible from vehicles.
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"I thought that with a chain ferry, the chains were fixed and the ferry "cogged" itself along the chains to achieve movement".
You are correct, but in this instance (just to be awkward) the Blyth High Ferry crossed a shipping channel. When required, and it would have happened regularly when the port was at its busiest, the ferry had to moor up and lower its chains to the river bed so that other vessels could cross its path without getting caught up in the chains / cables. Also when the ferry was not in use, it upped chains and went down river where it was then moored up in the Blyth Harbour Commission dock.
I suppose the currents in the tidal river would have been strong so a chain ferry would be a more 'stable' option, but at the same time it had flexibility in that it could be stored out of the way when not required. An image of it at the BHC dock is attached with its chains / cables wrapped up on the ramp.
Very interesting topic, this vessel on its own without the complexities of its operation. Fun though. Creates a nice bit of juicy debate. Don't get to overwrought though as it is not worth it. It is just a very interesting and rare piece of history.
Philip
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Just to demonstrate how far the high ferry operated away from the BHC dock I include this map of the river.
Philip
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Geoff, The Mayflower picture is of my father and his fireman for the day on the footplate of Mayflower shortly after the engine had been named by the US naval attache, and before departure of the 4.15p.m. train KX to Cleethorpes. The turns were worked by Boston men, relieving at Boston. At that time there were two through services between Cleethorpes and KX, the 10.10 am Boston to KX and the 4.15 being worked by Boston throughout; the other by Immingham men. Have much more information as I was closely involved in these workings from 1958 to 1962, and indeed my father from their inception in 1950. Please pm me if you have any questions.
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Well, for those interested I finally have received an answer to my query. :)
'The signal on the landing was to indicate that the Ferry had lowered the wires to the bottom of the river to enable ships to navigate up to the West Basin for loading or turning. The procedure was that a ship requiring to pass the landing would blow one long and two short blasts when passing Colpits landing to indicate to the ferry crew that they should drop the wires to allow the ship safe passage. If the Ferry was at the South side, he would immediately set off for the North side, because that was where the Cable tensioning gear was situated, and lower the wires. When the wires were safely on the bottom, the Ferrymen would give an answering long and two short on the Whistle, and pull the signal to the off position - why, I'm not sure because it would certainly not be seen in fog, or by ships coming from the West Basin direction! Of course, the people involved would all know what was planned to happen, and would be well briefed by VHF Radio if any alterations were to crop up. I remember an occasion when a 'new' J77 arrived at the Shed, fitted with an A4 calliope whistle. On its first week on the Staiths, every time the whistle was sounded, the Ferry crew went to panic stations, thinking a ship was en route...all because no one had told them!
Philip
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Thanks for that Philip! :)
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I can imagine the effect of that whistle!SAndbanks chain ferry at Poole crosses the main shipping lane, or is that a separate topic?
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I suppose Roger, apart from a few ferries each day, it is the main shipping http://tinyurl.com/y9eptue
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I think that Poole Harbour might disagree with that comment Geoff.