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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: diatrbus on Monday 28 December 09 10:31 GMT (UK)
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I’ve encountered a problem I can’t get past from here that perhaps someone with more expertise than I might be able to help solve – it may just be a case of wrong dates having been transposed somewhere/somehow, but as an amateur I can’t find an official point to establish the correct dates.
Background: My GGrandfather was a survivor of the Charge of the Light Brigade, ex 8th Hussars. The data that I have found concerning his enlistment and discharge dates is confusing.
He was: Private, Charles DALTON, Reg No. 1436 – or perhaps 1136. . . there seems to be some confusion in the material I have read that refers to either Dalton-C and/or Dalton-H with numbers 1436 and/or 1136. I’d dearly love to clear this up.
If one accesses http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+Australian+graves+of+Crimean+War+Light+Brigade+veterans-a083477092
his enlistment date is said to have been ??March 1850 at Windsor and his discharge date ??September 1863, at Calcutta, India, after 12 years’ service – which doesn’t compute.
Also, it is reasonably believed that he arrived in Sydney, Australia, as the manservant to/with Governor Sir John Young (Baron Lisgar) on 22 Mar 1861.
Can anyone please point me towards true and accurate records?
Thanks, Dalton
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Hi Dalton
We have had this man before - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,291558.msg1750415.html#msg1750415
Only service after the age of 18 counted towards his '12'. So if his DoB is correct, he enlisted when he was 17 not 18. So that should take up some of the excess. Also Victorian 2s can look like 3s (with a top curl), so maybe he was discharged in 1862.
The arrival date does not fit. However the feeling the first time around was that he may have arrived in 1863. If Liverpool Annie doesn't pick this up I suggest you send her a PM.
If you cannot get to Kew to check to see if his service record has survived, and you do not want to pay for a researcher, you will have to wait for Findmypast to put surviving records online 'by 2011'. You may be lucky and find FindMyPast put them online during 2010, as the surviving records have already been scanned.
If his record has not survived you will have to pay a researcher to look at the muster books (again in Kew) for the 8th Hussars for 1850 and 1862/63. The website providing the details, or the headstone itself could be at fault. To be certain only his service record or entries in the muster books can be trusted.
Ken
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Ken, you're a gem.
You've reflected much of my thoughts. But, yes, the discharge date and d.o.a in A/a are a bit strange. I tried to attach a timeline for Charles to this msg - but wasn't successful. I'll now go to bed before opening the link you have sent me. . . because it's 02:00.
I'll respond with more tomorrow when I work out how to get a Word doc saved as a txt one.
Many thanks, Goodnight.
Dalton
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Attached is a timeline for Charles DALTON created from as much information as has been gleaned from reputable and verifiable sources over the past twelve or fifteen years. It is likely that in addition to the nine children that survived another two did not - however, BDM searches do not reveal any death cert's. . . not uncommon given that transposition from handwritten material to the final microfilm/fiche and then to digital media leaves opportunity for mistakes (some identified); and possibly reports/returns were not made or didn't reach the central registry. Where dates conflict between BDM and family bible entries I have taken the bible to be the more likely.
Brgds, DFN
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Hi diatrbus and welcome !
How exciting to have one of the "600" in your family !! ( I'm envious !! )
Dalton Pte Charles 1136 8th H ( as recorded in EJ Boys archive )
Also Lawrence Crider was a member here ... he is a leading authority on the Light Brigade ... maybe we can ask him too !!
Mike Neville was a member here for a while ... not sure if I still have his email but I'll look and see what I can find !
Dalton was born in St. Lukes, London, England in 1832 and served with the 8th King's Royal "Irish" Hussars during the Crimea War; including the Charge of the Light Brigade and the Indian Mutiny. The uniform he is wearing in this photo looks like that of a Senior Sergeant in the King's 8th, however, the British "foreign service" helmet next to him interestingly bears the first N.S.W. Police helmet plate; as illustrated above. It is this author's opinion, that Dalton fashioned this N.S.W. Police uniform on that of his old military unit. Senior officer's in the N.S.W. Police soon began to wear and would continue wear "hussar" style, undress jackets from the 1880's up until the 1940's.
Dalton had a very interesting life. After service in India, Dalton officially travelled to Australia on board the P&O mail steamer, "Northam", as "escort" to the newly appointed NSW Administrator and soon to be, Governor in Chief of Australia, Lord John Young and his wife Lady Adelaide Young. They arrived in Sydney in 1861 and Dalton fell in love with Australia. He excelled in his new work in the Mounted Governor's Escort and was asked to stay on in that role by Lord Young.
In 1862 and pursuant to new Police Regulation Act of 1862, Dalton was officially discharged, after 12 years and 70 days service with H.R.H. military forces, with the "Good Conduct badge" whilst on active service at the Governor's pleasure and he and his elite, mounted troopers (known as "the Governor's Escort" ) were to become one of the last of the disperate " law enforcement" bodies in N.S.W, to be officially amalgamated into the newly formed New South Wales Police Force. He became officer No. 1342 and he and his family settled into their home at Goulburn; whilst he served in the Western District. In 1864, at the insistence of Governor Young, his duties were retransferred to the old, "Depot"; where Police troopers for Government House security and the South East District were stationed.
After the attempted assassination of the visting Prince Alfred, whilst he was attending a picnic at Clontarf on the 12th March, 1868, Dalton returned to full-time, Government House duty and was promoted to the rank of Sergeant on the 1st July, 1868. On 6th March, 1869 he was awarded the title of "Officer-In-Charge" of the "New South Wales Police Mounted Governor's Escort" and he, along with his family and four N.S.W. "Mounted Troopers" moved into and occupied the "Government House Household Cavalry" buildings ( now known as the "Conservatorium of Music") which they used as their home for the next 20 years; and to serve the next 7 "Governor's".
Dalton was one of only twelve possible survivors of the "Charge of the Light Brigade" to settle in Australia and was made a member of the Balaclava Commemeration Society (exclusive to those who actually rode in "The Charge"), in 1879.
The "Government House Household Cavalry Barracks" building is located in Maquarie Street, Sydney; a beautiful, ornate building specifically designed to house "His Excellency" the Governor's Escort, by the talented "gentleman convict" architect, Francis Greenway.
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Continued ....
This historic, building is currently being used as a school, offices and recital hall for Sydney's "Conservatorium of Music".
In 1872 Dalton had another daughter, who was named, Antoinette Mary Dalton; my Grandmother was born at Government House, Sydney, as were six of her other brothers and sisters. (see below)
Dalton also became instrumental in the founding of Australia's first official independent Military Force, the "Sydney Light Horse", because of his access to the then Governor, Lord Loftus. Please see: THE ROYAL N.S.W. LANCERS 1885 -1960. Edited by P.V. Vernon. Available here: http://www.lancers.org.au/
Inspector John Bevin, of The New Zealand Police Force (another 8th Hussar who "came through" Balaclava; see the "Charger list" (as named above), while stationed in Dunedin, had written a letter of introduction to Charles Dalton for a Mr. Robert Roland Thompson, who was a former Sergeant of the 4th Dragoon Guards. It was Dalton's access to the then Governor, Lord Loftus, that led to the formation of the first (Volunteer) Australian (Sydney) Light Horse and to R.R Thompson eventually becoming it's first adjutant in 1887. Apparently, the articles for the formation of Australia's, first official Light Horse troop were written in the Dalton's dining room, at the now "Conservatorium of Music".
During the excavations for the underground additions for the Conservatorium of Music site in 2000 (or more appropriately, the Governor's Household Cavalry Barracks site), many items that belonged to Dalton's family and his Police troopers from the 1800's, such as issued and marked Queen Victoria "crowned" items from the N.S.W. Police, (including badges, buttons and household items) were excavated from this site and are now on display there.
By all reports, Dalton was also an accomplished horse rider and shot and in his early days, had accompanied Captain Zouch, a fellow N.S.W. Police officer, many times on his excursions to hunt down local bushrangers on the Goulburn plains.
On the 31st October 1889, after more than 25 years with the Governor's escort and the N.S.W. Police, Dalton retired and moved with his family to Balgowlah.
My Great, Grandfather, Senior Sergeant Charles Dalton died on the 5th February, 1891, after a thrilling, adventurous and rewarding life.
I am sure there is a unique story behind each and every badge; if only they could talk.
Please enjoy the site.
Mike Neville.
January 21, 2004.
UPDATED: 2004-2009.
http://www.ozbadge.com/introduction.html
These are his pictures .....
The Dalton family c 1888.
After 25 years with the NSW Mounted Police at Government House Barracks, Dalton retired and the family moved to Balgowlah. My Great, Grandfather, Charles Dalton, died in 1891.
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Senior Sergeant Charles Dalton wearing the uniform of the NSW Police Governor's Escort;
which is almost identical to that of 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars.
His NSW Police helmet with the first helmet plate are displayed next to him. Freeman: c1880.
© Copyright Australian War Memorial, Ozbadge and families.
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You probably have this already .. but just in case !! :)
The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842-1954) Friday 6 February 1891, page 1
DALTON.—February 5, at his residence, Gwalior, Balgowlah, near Manly, Charles Dalton, late Senior Sergeant Governor's Escort, and of the 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars. Served in the Crimea and Turkey, at Alma, Balaclava, Inkermann, and Sebastopol, and in India at the Siege of Kotah, Recapture of Chundaree, Kotah Ki Seari, Capture of Gwalier, Powrie, Sindwah, and Koonoyr ; leaving a wife and nine children to mourn their loss.
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Thanks Annie,
Yes I do have those – plus the rest of the material I have gathered on him over fifteen years or so of researching him and mainly his descendants – of which there were at least thirty-four grandchildren (and probably more whose BDM details I cannot access – but will hopefully soon discover via proposed contact with rellies.) There have been at least five sets of descendants to Charles and his wife Jessie; I am unaware of a sixth – as of today.
We are lucky in Australia to be able to access most States’ BDM databanks without having to pay for the privilege; obtaining certificates is another matter and if one finds that this becomes burdensome there is always the opportunity to join one of the Heraldry and Genealogy Societies – as I did years ago, and they generally have microfilm or microfiche libraries of the original registers and entries. Also, our Australian National Library has a special Family History department where one can go to do deep research. The ANL is also forever bringing new data access sites on line and in the past week I have found a heap of newspaper articles and pars concerning Charles – many of his police items of note and other pertinent stuff.
Praise be to the Internet and to Email! From a start-point that was a shuffling of pencilled pieces of paper, bits of remembered family myth, and talks with a couple of uncles and aunts who avidly wrote I have been able to pad out such of that which can be verified (or refuted) with other research or written material that I’ve “Googled”. So much so that I have a narrative with images that runs to over forty A4 pages on Charles and his wife, alone. More is expected soon and maybe even a bit of those forty pages might have to be culled to negate the unsubstantiated or mythological.
My wife and I travelled to the UK two years ago and went to the PRO which we found less user-friendly than doing research via the Web – unfortunately we visited on a Sunday and the computer system was “down” and the staff basically unfussed towards helping newbies.
It’d be nice to think that some kind soul would devote a bit of lookup time to try to find an original post-charge muster roll so that we might better sort out the anomaly of whether he served using an assumed given name (starting with “H”) or whether that fact is incorrect and caused by who-knows-what. The various lists that were made up many years after the charge may well suffer errors of transposition that today are difficult to sort out. (As a classical example of this, my father, Dalton NEVILLE’s BDM entry is incorrect as the registry interpreted an “open-topped D” as a stylised “W” and he is therefore listed as “Walton NEVILLE.”
A second vexation concerning Charles is the apparent discrepancy with the date of his discharge. As best we know he was discharged from British Military in Calcutta on 8 Sept 1860 (1862/3? There is confusion relating to the actual date. We understand he was discharged "time expired" in Calcutta, India (12yrs 70 days) with Good Conduct badge. The records available give no indication of when, or how, or if he returned to England: and the shipping records in the Sydney Morning Herald for the day of Charles’s arrival in Australia (as best we know it) do not mention him by name among those passengers that the vessel started with when it sailed out from England, nor is he listed among those who were picked up along the way in India and at the Port of Galle (in the then) Ceylon – in fact the report of the Northam’s travel only mentions Bombay – Calcutta does not feature!
If, as it reasonably seems Charles and Jessie were somehow/somewhere caught up in the haste of Governor Young’s departure from London and travel to Sydney and were both acting as personal servants to His Lordship (and Charles was neither ADC, nor Escort to Sir John – as was believed by certain of his descendants) they quite likely were the unnamed “Man and Maid Servant(s)” shown in the arrival list of passengers of the “Northam” in March 1861.
The date of arrival in Australia that we have for Sir John Young and his entourage, including Charles and his (to be) wife Jessie was 22 March 1861 and of course, when you do the sums using Charles’s Service time, his enlistment date, and that supposed date of discharge, things just don’t add up.
Anybody with a bit of spare research time would receive mine and other descendants’ undying gratitude – and I’ll send them a copy of my history of Charles Dalton.
Best Regards - and Happy New Year (in 3 hrs here)
Another Great Grandson, Dalton Neville.
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Hi Dalton
From your ‘timeline’ you must have his service record, so I am surprised you are stuck on basic information such as date of enlistment, regimental number and date of discharge.
The Good Conduct ‘badge’ was actually an inverted stripe worn over the left cuff. The qualification changed a number of times but one GC badge was usually awarded after only three years good conduct, so he obviously was no angel. Also, the time he was AWOL plus the punishment was unpaid and taken off the service towards his pension. So, again, his papers should say if the 12 years and 70 days was total service or ‘pensionable’ service.
Also, when you get to heaven you can tell him he is out of uniform, as the middle medal is the Turkish Crimea medal and he should be wearing the Mutiny Medal (the striped one) nearer the heart than a foreign award. Here is a link which has the same medals correctly worn before the foreign award. The extra medal with the plain ribbon is the Long Service Good Conduct medal, and is also worn before foreign awards.
http://www.dnw.co.uk/medals/auctionarchive/searchcataloguearchive/itemdetail.lasso?itemid=39224
Ken
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G'day Ken, Happy New Year.
Again you've got me after midnight so I'll have to do another shuffle through all the papers I have for him later in the morning. The anomaly is that we definitely have him enlisting in the NSW Police Force in 1862 - and probably arriving in Sydney with Governor Young in 1861!! Could it be that he was still on 8th H strength until '62 but seconded to the hastily-travelling new NSW Governor whose ADC could not travel with him? Do you think that to be a possibility?
And what do you think of the uniform that he is wearing? There's two versions that appear to me to be almost identical to that of an 8th H. An argument exists as to whether the uniform he wears is Hussars or NSWPol. Part two - is that uniform perhaps a "full dress" version?
The GC badge - the two formal studio photos show an indistinct lump of something just above his right hand's cuff and frogging. What's your opinion of that? Is it perhaps a solid rank badge, or the GC badge? He doesn't seem to be wearing a badge, or a stripe anywhere else. Could it perhaps be a gold crown to signify his employment by the Crown's representative - as is seen in two later photos upon his despatch pouch?
And, Yes! As an ex-Serviceman myself I did pick the anomaly with his medal dispositiion. (I also was a trained professional photographer and analyst before I changed departments and ran the Australian Immigration Department's anti-Document Fraud and Document Examination effort for a number of years: and so I have some ability in spotting such things.) Mind you, the eyes are rapidly going!
Thanks again, and all the best for 2010 to all chatterers.
DFN
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It is not a uniform of the 8th Hussars. They had blue and red tunics. This one has yellow or white facings - collars and cuffs. The helment plate was also based upon a harp.
Also here is an example of their sabretache - http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyunits/britishcavalry/8thhussarssabretache1823.htm - albeit from an early reign. I doubt they ever used a plain Queen Victoria crown. And not being an officer he would have had to hand his uniform back when he was discharged.
GC badges were over the left cuff.
Happy new year to you too.
Ken
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Dalton Neville is my favorite cuz at all this...
but, a few examples of a "picture means a thousand words".
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This is the ROUNDEL helmet plate we see on DALTON'S pith style helmet (not Busby); clearly marked as "NEW SOUTH WALES POLICE"; verified under microscope by the NSW State Library. Only two originals of these helmet plates are known to still exist. One is at the Justice and Police Museum in Sydney and one is is with a GG Grandson. This plate appears clearly on two different helmets and on both Freeman "Carte de Visite's", we know exist of S/SGT Charles DALTON (NSWP); which were taken from c 1870-1880. Copies of these photos are the Mitchell Library (State Library of NSW) and Australian War Memorial. The original Freeman wet plate negative of the earlier the two photos (below) is at University of Sydney and is in their Freeman collection. The later and last family portrait by Freeman and Co (above) shows what seems to be a much older DALTON (and family) and his helmet is partially obscurred (tipped forward) and the plate not visible.
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Thanks, Ken; and G'day Mike.
The three images in the composite are the cause of confusion and speculation. As an amateur to all this I'm interested to know if all/most of HM's uniforms of the 1800s derive from the same basic pattern - per rank or Service.
More thanks, Ken; that website will have me occupied for hours - I also have an old photo of my maternal Grandfather's training ship (that he absconded from after copping a session with "the cat." When his scars healed he immediately joined the Queen's Bays and ended up in S/Africa for the Boer War. From that he headed for A/a and then served in the 1st and 2nd AIF.) I'm happy to send a digital copy of that photo of the "HMS Impregnable" of 1890...s.
Brgds, DFN
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Hi Dalton
According to the Mutiny medal roll his number was 436. Private Charles Dalton, 8th Hussars, awarded medal with one clasp for Central India.
There is also a 1467 Privatee Whirral Dalton in the 8H winning the same medal and clasp.
Ken
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We think the badge on his right sleeve may be a padded, bulbous, Queen Victoria crown (QVC); a rank badge, signifying "Senior Sergeant" in the NSW Police; but can not be verified because of the angle of the photo. We know this photo was taken in 1876 (we know this from the Freeman catalouge at the State Library of NSW). Official NSW Police records seem to show Dalton promoted to the rank of SGT in 1868; and later to S/SGT in 1878.
However, the 1874 NSW "Distribution of Police" records, show only a S/SGT, a S/Constable and two Constables as Mounted "Orderlies to His Excellency the Governor" (no SGT) which may suggest Dalton was the "Acting S/SGT" at the time of this earlier photo and given special dispensation to wear the QVC; denoting the rank of S/SGT.
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That rank symbol also appears, but not distinctly enough to positively identify - although I cannot imagine what else it could be - in two other photos taken of Charles Dalton in 1880 and 1888.
Brgds, DFN
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Ken, thanks for that.
Can you please confirm that service-number in your last msg (as: 436)? If that’s so, then we have yet another disparity.
Hmmm. The Boys Archive has:
Surname Rank Forename Regtl No Regiment
Dalton Pte Charles 1136 8th H
Dalton Pte Wilmall, Winnal,
William 1467 8th H
However, searching further through this archive shows Regimental Service Number 1467 as also being:
Leitch Cpl William 1467 4th LD
Proctor Pte John 1467 11th H
Note the same sort of duplication exists in another list:
Names of Officers and Troopers who took part in the Charge of the Light Brigade 25th October 1854.
Page Surname Initial Rank No. Reg’t Status in the Charge Died
88 Dalton C Pte 1136 8 th H Rode 05/02/1891
308 Ling R Pte 1136 17th L Killed 25/10/1854
112 Morris G Pte 1136 8th H Killed 25/10/1854
Note the three identical Service Numbers – two from the 8th. . . I’m presuming the service-numbering system then was a “per regiment” sequential system – but that still doesn’t account for the same 1136/1436 discrepancy; mind you, I’m of the opinion that this is likely to be a simple transcription error, or poor handwriting style that caused the “4” to be taken as a “1”.
The Balaclava Society’s Lists have:
Dalton H Pte (1877) Dalton Charles 1436 (1879)
Nothing/no one for 1136.
No other 1436.
Proctor J Pte (1877) Proctor John 1467 1879
Just for interest, I’m lunching with another Dalton GGrandson and GGGrandson this coming Thursday. Both of them have lately found an interest in Old Charles, or OC as we’ve dubbed him, and mine and Mike’s extant research product will have saved them a huge amount of time trawling the various websites and other repositories. Thanks to you and Annie, too.
During the following week, other GGrandchildren and myself will meet in Sydney where the proposition of holding a full get-together of OC’s descendants (in March 2011) for the 150th anniversary of his and his later to be wife Jessie’s arrival in Australia will be broached. If that gets up I shall keep this site apprised.
Brgds, DFN
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Sorry, I haven't read all your last post. But, yes, the Indian Mutiny Medal Roll 1857-1859 (British Forces), compiled by K J Asplin, 1998. gives his number as 436.
Each cavalry regiment had their own sequence, so you can forget about Ling. Given the duplication with Morris I would tend to believe Asplin. But he would have taken that from the microfilm medal rolls, which will not be in the best condition. However, the only definitive data is in the muster books. These were compiled monthly, at the time, so must be accurate.
Ken
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I hope you've been in touch with Lawrence Crider ... if anybody knows anything about "The Charge" ... he does !! :D
He maybe able to answer most if not all of your questions !
Annie :)
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Thanks, Annie,
. . . Not directly, but have just joined and posted on GenForum - to which he seems to post quite a bit. Do you think I should try to contact him some other way?
It is very pleasing to see how readily other researchers help out on this site. I'm really impressed and grateful.
Brgds, DFN
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Hi Dalton !
He has been very helpful here too .... I love the way he shares his knowledge ....
Hang tight ... I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he comes up with some answers for you ! :) :)
Annie :)
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That'd be marvelous; the one thing that is a worry in our research of Charles Dalton is this disparity in the date of arrival in A/a and the later date of discharge. The most logical answer - apart from identity fraud - is a military attachment/secondment.
Brgds, DFN
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To save double posting, to see Charles's medals go to:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=427411.new
Brgds, DFN
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Hi mate I am an ex serviceman and served in The Queens Royal Irish Hussars the Regt. were formed in 1958 with the amalgamation of 4th. Queens Own Hussars and 8th. Kings Royal Irish here is the address and phone number and e-mail address of the regimental museum in Eastbourne they may well be able to help you out, I cannot lay my hands on the address for our HHQ just at this moment but I will try to get it for you, the men of "The Six Hundred" are still celebrated by the Regt. to this day and rightly so, as they say "Once a Hussar always a Hussar"Good luck with your search. Tam Walker.....Pristinae Virtutis Memores. Q.R.I.H. Museum, The Redoubt Fortress,Royal Parade, Eastbourne. BN22 7AQ..........eastbournemuseums@breatemail.net....Tel. 01323410300
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Thank you,
I'm off to Tasmania tomorrow for eleven days of fly-fishing in the Central Highlands; I'll follow up that contact when I return.
Brgds, DFN - ex RAAF 2Sqn (Canberra Bombers) VietNam 1970/71
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Don't know if I can be of much help, but will try.
The enlistment date and discharge date are directly from the E. J. Boys Archive, which is the most complete archive on the men of the Light Brigade in existence. My book and Roy Dutton's, for the most part, just reiterate information derived from that source. I can tell you his regimental number was definitely 1136 . . . as I have photocopies of the original Muster Rolls for the period. 1467 in the 8th Hussars was Pte William Dalton. To verify what has been said elsewhere, each regiment had its own regimental numbering system, but the regt no. for that regiment was unique (except for occasional transcriptional errors).
I don't have the records for the requisite dates, but if anyone you know has access to the National Archives at Kew, you should be able to check on the Muster Rolls for the first two quarterly musters of 1850, and determine the exact date of enlistment on the form 5 or form 7; a similar check of regimental musters for 1860-63 should indicate his date of discharge on the form 20 or form 24.
Hope this helps.
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Am extremely grateful for the useful help and information already given on this site from expert members. Cannot get to Kew (from Australia) and still need a bit more help.
Can anyone visiting Kew please help me/family to establish how our earliest ancestor to arrive in Sydney came to do so? Assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Background: 8th Royal Irish Hussars, Pte Charles DALTON, R/No 1136, Enlisted 02 Mar 1850.
Supposedly discharged Calcutta 08 Sept 1863 – after 12 years and 70 days (with Good Conduct Badge). By my calc’s, though, that ought to have had him discharge on 14 May 1862 – unless there’s some altering factor in his service (he did go AWOL 17 Jul – 09 Aug in 1852).
The records available to me give no indication of when, or how, or if he returned to England from India.
The shipping records in the Sydney Morning Herald and Aust Gov’t resources for the day of what we believe was Charles’s arrival in Australia do not mention him by name among those passengers that the vessel sailed with when it left England, and he is not listed among those who were picked up along the way in India and at the Port of Galle (in the then) Ceylon – in fact the report of the Northam’s travel only mentions Bombay – Calcutta does not feature!
It is generally believed that Charles (and his wife-to-be, Jessie Fitzsimmons) were somehow/somewhere caught up in the haste of H/E Lord Lisgar, Sir John Young’s departure from London and his rapid travel to Sydney (without his ADC or escort), and that both Charles and Jessie were listed as personal servants to His Lordship. Charles and Jessie quite likely were the unnamed “Man and Maid Servant(s)” shown in the arrival-list of passengers on board the “Northam” on 22 March 1861.
Of course, when you do the sums using Charles’s Service time, his enlistment date, the supposed date of his discharge, and the believed date of his arrival in Sydney, things just don’t add up. We cannot positively identify him entering Australia on any other date.
Anybody with a bit of spare research time would receive mine and other descendants’ undying gratitude – and I’ll send them a copy of my bio-narrative of Charles Dalton’s life after Crimea as soon as I can close this final chapter if you could please check through the 8th Hussars Muster Rolls for the first two quarterly musters of 1850, and determine the exact date of Charles Dalton’s enlistment on the form 5 or form 7? (I’m sure that Lawrence Crider is correct when he says the date should be 02 Mar 1850.) And second, could you please make a similar check of 8th Hussars regimental musters for 1860-63 to try to find Charles’s date of discharge on the form 20 or form 24.
As there were two Daltons as Privates in the 8th Hussars (Charles 1136, and William 1467) in the Crimea and later in India some confusion of information concerning each/both has been found.
It is our belief that somehow, Charles may have been seconded to H/E’s personal staff and that he may have been discharged “in-absentia” at a later date. We’re hoping that a “lookup” might clarify the situation.
In hope, Dalton Neville
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Hi Diatrbus
I see you are related to Sgt Dalton.
My ancestor Henry Nixon appears to have a had a friendship with Sgt Dalton in 1883 as the Sgt placed a 9 pound deposit on his behalf in order to bring out my ancestor's brother (and family) from Ireland. There is a record in the Immigration Deposit Ledger held by NSW State Archives.... expressed as Depositor 'Henry Nixon C/- Sgt Dalton Govt House'. Henry was a relieving station master and was probably in the country at the time so he needed a city contact. As he was born at Rosmead in Ireland he probably was known to (NSW) Governor Hercules Robinson, 1872-79, as the Governor came from the same estate.
Has any of the correspondence of your Sgt Dalton survived ? I am wondering if there is any mention of Henry Nixon and in what context ?
Are there any family photos taken at railway stations in NSW ?
Cheers
Robert
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G'day Robert,
None that I'm aware of. I'm currently away from home (up in far North Queensland, on the coast) in our caravan and will search further when I return (in Sept). Will also send your request to another couple of researchers in the family.
Brgds, DFN
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Hi DFN
Ok
Many thanks for your rapid response !
I shall await your future reply in Sept with great anticipation !
Cheers
Robert
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Hi Diatrbus
Further to my previous posts I was just wondering if you have had a chance to check your family records for any mention(s) of a Henry Nixon ?
Cheers
Robert
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G'day Robert,
Pls exc delay. Have searched and asked around the family, but afraid there's no result concerning your relative.
Brgds, DFN
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Many thanks for your response Diatrbus.
Cheers
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have you consulted the PRO In Kew, England. Public Records Office or British national archive has military records. I've used a professional named Richard Moles with gresat results. The military records should be there, but I've used the India rootsweb lists with fair sucess. Many members living in India speek English and are eager to assist.
I am searching for Powrie,my maiden name,but I have know about Fort Powrie and it's part in the conflicts. perhaps by disecting his career, you can get records on the various campaigns that may add up to the correct amount of time. There are some great books about the various regiments, and so much is online.
I'm a professional with 30+years experience, and love helping others. Good luck, and write me at (*) if you need help with a brick wall.
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Hi Mary
Yes I have used Kew military records for one ancestor (John Nixon) with great success ! I used a professional researcher to examine Royal Artillery records. Ended up with 90 pages worth !
The reference I made in this link is to another ancestor (Henry Nixon) who was not part of the UK military as such but who had contact with a person who was - Senior Sgt Dalton - who became the head of the mounted escort for several NSW Governors.... Sgt Dalton paid an immigration deposit in 1883 on behalf of Henry Nixon to bring his younger brother (George Nixon) out from Athlone Ireland.
Cheers
Robert
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Good morning Dalton,
You will find a contact address etc on here, http://www.qrhregtassoc.org.uk/ . I'm sure they would also appreciate copies of the pictures you have in his different uniforms.
John915 (ex QRIH)