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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Staffordshire => England => Staffordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: wrudge on Friday 01 January 10 16:17 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
Using a lot of information from this and other websites, I have been able to build a family tree back to the mid 1800s. I was hoping I could get some help from anyone living in the area with parish records for the following individuals. I am trying to find the family of my 3x Great Grandfather John Rudge. I do know his fathers name was Samuel from his GRO record. I found the following information on familysearch.org (Batch # C010243): possible brother/sisters and John Rudge himself:
Edward Rudge
Male
Christening:
13 JUN 1813 All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary
Thomas Rudge
Male
Christening:
10 SEP 1815 All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary
Mary Rudge
Female
Christening:
16 NOV 1817 All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary
Samuel Rudge
Male
Christening:
27 AUG 1820 All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel
Mother: Mary
Joseph RUDGE
Male
Christening:
18 SEP 1825 All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary
Ann Rudge
Female
Christening:
24 AUG 1828 All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary
JOHN RUDGE
Male
Christening:
27 FEB 1831 All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary
Hannah Rudge
Female
Christening:
21 JUL 1833 All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary
Possible Marriage:
- International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 22 OCT 1856 Tring, Hertford, England
Spouse: John Gill
Possible GRO for Marriage:
Dec 1856 District: Berkhampstead Vol: 3a Page: 454
I did find this family in the 1851 England census but how do I know if it is my 3x Great Grandfathers family or the wrong John Rudge:
HO107/2084/576 p 41
I do see some similarities between occupations (Boatsman)
I also found this (using batch #M041791)
Samuel Rudge
Marries Mary Lighham (07 NOV 1809 Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick, England) - could these be John Rudge's parents?
I'd really like to break the barrier into the 1700's and continue my research, but don't want to just make assumptions and go down the wrong paths.
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
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I am (one of) the great great great grandchildren of Edward Rudge (b 1813) and Mary Holloway. I've read your posts and your data pretty much corresponds with mine. I'd be happy to compare notes if you would like.
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If you check www.freereg.org.uk. You will find a lot of west brom all saints rudge marriages on there. The site has updated this week.
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Thanks weste for the update! wrudge and I are cousins and we have been working on our line for several years. It has taken us from London to Tring, to Ashby-de-la-Zouch and back to Birmingham, then over to Smethwick/Bromwich and possible back to Sedgley. These darn Rudge boatsman working the canals moved around quite a bit. Its been challenging.
Scott.
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My branch ended up in Paddington. I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for, but I have Samuel Rudge (Edward's son) and his wife Phoebe Walters' marriage certificate and Phoebe's death certificate. I'm waiting for some more certificates. I just wondered, is asthma common in your line? In our branch, there are only one or two who don't have asthma. Phoebe died at 45 from bronchial pneumonia. I asked my GP and she suspected that the damp conditions she lived in (I don't think she was from a barge family, she married in) made her asthma worse and left her prone to chest infections. There were no antibiotics in 1887, so it proved fatal. I'm wondering if the asthma came from her DNA. Thanks.
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Kiboko,
As far as I know, asthma has not been an issue in our line. So you have Edward Rudge, c.1813 at All Saints, West Bromwich in your line? Edwards little brother John is where my line comes in. We just might be distantly related. Tricky step is that there are two Edward Rudges christened in 1813 at All Saints. One c. 13 June and one c. 15 August. My Edward Rudge c. 13 June, has parents Samuel Rudge, c. 5 Jun 1789 and Mary Lighham. The transcription for Mary's last name is probably not right - and it is hard to make out the original. I have copies of the Baptism register entries for Edward, Thomas, Mary, Samuel, Joseph, Ann, John, and Hannah from West Bromwich parish. I also have a copy of the St. Philip's church register entry for Samuel Rudge and Mary's marriage. Do you have Samuel and Mary as parents for your Edward? Do you have William Rudge and Catherine Paine as Edwards grandparents? That's as far back as I have been able to go - I have not been able to make a reliable connection to William's parents.
If you have made it to Paddingham (Pattingham?) then you are doing good. They say that most surnames come from our ancestors vocations or locations. The hamlet of Rudge is just a mile southwest of Pattingham - and I am guessing that is where our surname originated. There are a lot of very early Rudges in the Pattingham records. I am also guessing the Evesham branch of Rudges came from this area too. Their tree goes back to John De Rugge (John of Rudge) who lived in Seysdon (Seisdon) during Edward II reign - 1307 to 1327. Seisdon is just 2 miles southeast of the hamlet of Rudge.
EDIT: Just realized that you meant that you are now in Paddington - oops. I was hoping you had traced your tree back to Pattingham - that is where a lot of early Rudges show up in the older records.
Scott.
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Kiboko,
I was just surfing familysearch.org, and if you search the IGI database, there are a couple of user submissions for Edward Rudge and Mary Holloway's marriage. According to the user submission, it looks like Edward was born around 1807, and Mary was born around 1811. It also says Edward was born in Cradley near Halesowen. The best match I have come across for Edward (c. 13 Jun 1813 at All Saints, West Bromwich) is a marriage to a Harriet Griffin/Griffith (c. 9 Mar 1817 at All Saints, West Bromwich) on 22 Jun 1834 at Aston Juxta, BHam. Happy hunting!
Scott.
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Not sure if anyone is still following this thread or will be notified of my comment, but I have an interesting theory about Mary 'Lighham' - who I think is my GGGG Grandmother (I'm descended from Samuel and Mary's daughter Mary)
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Hey Dave,
I would love to hear your theory on Mary's last name. I have not been able to follow her tree back at all because of her unique name. I have a copy of the original doc with her name on it - and it is not very clear. Your thoughts on what her true last name is would be welcome.
Thanks,
Scott Rudge
South Dakota - USA.
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Hi Scott
I’m descended from Mary Rudge (b 1817) daughter of Samuel & Mary Rudge.
Another of Samuel & Mary’s daughters, Ann (b 1828) married John Lightborne in Harborne in 1828. I have only recently discovered this marriage but it opens up a wealth of possibilities.
The Lightbornes settled near Buckingham (John was born in Leckhampstead), but John’s father, Thomas, gives his birthplace as ‘Oldbury, Shropshire’. Also in the area is a John Lightborne, b 1801 in Oldbury.
I then thought about the Samuel Rudge/Mary Lighham (sic) marriage in 1809. Clearly, Lighham is not a true transcription. It's possible that it’s a botched attempt to write some version of Lightborne (note: Mary has written her own name – it’s not her mark!)?
If you remember, Mary’s birthplace on the 1851 census reads something like ‘Holbury, Shropshire’.
A search for names a bit like Lightborne and Lighham brings up a Mary Lighton, baptised in Oldbury, Worcestershire in 1793, daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth.
Is it possible that ‘Holbury, Shropshire’ is a Leicestershire census taker’s misunderstanding of a Black Country accent actually saying ‘Oldbury’?
Also being baptised in Oldbury around this time are children of Thomas and Elizabeth Lightburne – Thomas (1795), Ann (1798) and John (1801). In a couple of cases, according to the IGI, these baptisms take place at the “Presbyterian Church, Oldbury by Halesowen, Shropshire’. Despite the ‘Shropshire’, this is the Oldbury actually then in Worcestershire, but which now forms part of Sandwell.
It is reasonable to assume that the Thomas baptised in 1795 is the father of the John who marries Ann Rudge in 1850. Also, that the John baptised in 1801 is the one also in Bucks.
If we have a double whammy mistranscription of Mary Lighham/Lighton’s name actually being Lightburne/Lightborne, then it looks like she is Thomas and John’s sister and that the Ann Rudge/John Lightborne marriage is one between first cousins.
So far, quite complicated, but here my brain gets really fried…
Having traced Thomas and John Lightborne, and possibly/probably Mary Lighham/Lighton, I wondered about Ann Lightborne. This I wasn’t expecting:
Ann Lightborne married Samuel Rudge in Harborne in 1815.
But this is a different Samuel Rudge. If you’ve looked for the children of Samuel and Mary, you’ve probably found the children of this marriage as well. The main ones of interest are:
John, b 1817, West Brom
Samuel, b 1818, West Brom
This Samuel is almost certainly the one who ended up becoming a JP and Mayor of Dudley. In 1851, John is to be found with his mother, who is now named Morris – Samuel died in 1826, and she remarried in 1830.
So, what we may well have is two different Samuel Rudges, who married sisters.
I do have a theory to connect them as well!
Dave
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Wow Dave,
That is quite convoluted, and very interesting. I will have to dig deeper into my notes and check this out. I haven't fiddled with the family tree in a few years, so it is about time I get back on it. The connection between Holbury and Oldbury is pretty solid - a most likely scenario. The two Samuel Rudge's in the area and the boundary changes between counties makes things interesting. Additionally, with my family working canals, family movement has been a challenge. I am back into the 1700s now and records are getting sketchy. Hopefully during my break, some additional records have made it to the web.
Thanks again Dave for taking the time to share this info. I think you are the first distant distant distant relative to chime in on this section of my family tree. If you didn't catch it earlier in this thread, I am descended from Mary's younger brother John b.1831.
I don't think I have chased down any of the female marriages from this group of kids yet. So who did Mary b.1817 end up marrying?
Scott.
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It is convoluted, but it all fits together quite nicely. If Mary isn't a Lightborne, there are a lot of coincidences going on! Mary Rudge married a glassblower named John Dunshee - my tree is online, this is the link to Mary's page
https://sites.google.com/site/smithsplus/home/stanford/samuelrudge1789/maryrudge1817
I've not got all the Rudge/Lightborne stuff on yet, as I've only worked it all out in the last few days
Dave
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Dave,
I dug out my copy of Samuel and Mary's church register entry for their marriage, and her signature could easily be Lightborne. I can see above that her last name was transcribed as Lighham by the person that was filling out the rest of the registry - he was having a hard time figuring out what her last name was.
Scott.
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Hi again Scott
I've been looking into what I can find out about the descendants of John Rudge (1931); Samuel ended up in East End of London, but I can't find the others after 1871. As you appear to be in the US, is it safe to assume that William John at least emigrated there? Would be interested in any info you can supply about where they settled.
Thanks
Dave
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Hey Dave,
My cousin William and I have our tree up on Ancestry (Rudge/Biggs-Reda/Gross) or I have just the (Rudge) part going on there also. I also have the (Rudge) tree up on the FamilySearch.org website. I am not sure if you can see those trees if you have an account on those sites - maybe? Otherwise, I can throw you a hard copy of our tree via email if you like. Just PM me if you like.
Scott.
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I have a Rudge and Selina Ann Lightbourne who is perhaps the granddaughter of Mary Lighham so could it possibly be Mary Lightbourne
We had the above message sent to us as a "report to moderator" in error.
Regards
Sarah