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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: CitizenSmith on Wednesday 06 January 10 16:33 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone
This mystery photo shows an elderly couple who regularly camped in their vardo by the entrance to the Gliding Club on Dunstable Downs, Bedfordshire, over 40 years ago. They were known to members only as 'Mr and Mrs Draper'.
I'd love to know their first names so does anyone recognise them?
Some detective work has suggested they may be related to a Butler family who travelled/lived in and around Peterborough.
All ideas/info gratefully received.
Many thanks.
Sharon
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i have printed this have shown my father her didn't recognise them but when the weather is permiting [snow] i will show some other family members got some drapers in my lot
wish me luck
barb
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i have printed this have shown my father her didn't recognise them but when the weather is permiting [snow] i will show some other family members got some drapers in my lot
wish me luck
barb
i will also do the same, and hope my mums friend who is a draper may know something :D
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That's excellent. Many thanks to both of you.
Look forward to hearing more when you've passed the photo around.
Best wishes
Sharon
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Hi,
My name is Stephen Draper
My father is * Draper born *
My Grandfather is * Draper born 1918 wife *
My Great Grandfather is Goliath(cocker) Draper born 1870 wife Carolina
My Great Great Grandfather is Edmund Draper not sure of birth date
Anyway,
I`m a traveller,
Goliath(Cocker) Draper was born in St. Neots and his father Edmund lived in and around bedford for many years.
I recognise that picture and will show it to my dad, Levi.
A lot of my family still live round there according to my dad.
If you contact me I will put some pictures on here for your family to see.
*details of living and possibly living people removed in accordance with Rootschat policy
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Hi Stevewdraper
That's great news - thanks.
Hope your Dad knows who they are: they've been puzzling me for years.
Best wishes
Sharon
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Hi Steve
My name is Matt Sears, I am coordinating a study at the University of Leicester looking at the male inherited DNA of British males with Romany backgrounds. I have already sampled two donors whose families carried the surname Draper (sometimes Parker) and from the family information you gave your line seems to be unconnected. You would be a welcome edition to this free study. We have sampled 70 dnors so far covering many families from across the British Isles. Please feel free to have a look at our webpage www.le.ac.uk/diasporas and follow link to British Romany Project, you can contact me directly on (*). Cheers, Matt Sears
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Hi,
My name is Stephen Draper
My father is * Draper born *
My Grandfather is * Draper born 1918 wife *
My Great Grandfather is Goliath(cocker) Draper born 1870 wife Carolina
My Great Great Grandfather is Edmund Draper not sure of birth date
Anyway,
I`m a traveller,
Goliath(Cocker) Draper was born in St. Neots and his father Edmund lived in and around bedford for many years.
I recognise that picture and will show it to my dad, Levi.
A lot of my family still live round there according to my dad.
If you contact me I will put some pictures on here for your family to see.
*details of living and possibly living people removed in accordance with Rootschat policy
Hi stevewdraper,
I hope your don't mind me contacting you and I hope I have done it in the right place. 18m ago I have discovered I am related to Spenser Draper born Husborn Crawley beds 1826,his parents were William 'Billy' Draper and Mary Cotchin. He was sometimes known as Spenser Smith. On census returns and his children's birth certificates from Beds, Bucks, Oxon and Kent he says he is a traveller. I just wondered if you are related to them?
I am really sorry I don't know who the people are in the photos but the lady shares common facial features too the women in my family descended from the Drapers especially the cheeks.
Best wishes Emma
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Hi Emma
I'm pleased to report that recently a member of the Romany and Traveller FHS has given us an identity for the man and woman in the photograph that I posted here eight years ago.
They are Israel Draper or Parker and his wife Scenty/Saney Butler. Israel was born in Tingrith, Buckinghamshire, son of Nelson Draper and Naomi Parker or Ellis, in 1885. He was buried in 1970 in Dunstable Cemetery, Bedfordshire. Scenty/Saney died in 1978 and is buried in the same cemetery.
Sharon
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Hi Emma
I'm pleased to report that recently a member of the Romany and Traveller FHS has given us an identity for the man and woman in the photograph that I posted here eight years ago.
They are Israel Draper or Parker and his wife Scenty/Saney Butler. Israel was born in Tingrith, Buckinghamshire, son of Nelson Draper and Naomi Parker or Ellis, in 1885. He was buried in 1970 in Dunstable Cemetery, Bedfordshire. Scenty/Saney died in 1978 and is buried in the same cemetery.
Sharon
Hi Sarah,
That is fantastic, I am so pleased you know who they are now. Thank you so much for sharing the info you have. I think Spenser Draper had a son called Nelson, brother to Mary Anne from who I descend. I wonder if they are the same family?
Thanks for getting in touch.
Best wishes,
Emma
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Hi Emma
Having checked my Draper database, it looks like your Spencer Draper was the first cousin of a Nelson Draper. That Nelson was the father of the man in the photo. So you are definitely related to him.
Sharon
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Hi Emma
Having checked my Draper database, it looks like your Spencer Draper was the first cousin of a Nelson Draper. That Nelson was the father of the man in the photo. So you are definitely related to him.
Sharon
Thanks Sharon,
It is wonderful to see photos of people you are related to.
I am trying to figure out the relationships.
My Spenser Draper was born 1824 Husborne Crawley, Bedfordshire, England and died Mar 1901 Newport Pagnell, Buckinghamshire, England
He had children with Jane Webb.
His children were:
Eliza Draper Miss(18501925)
1850 Bow Brickhill, Buckinghamshire, England
Aaron Draper Mr(18521944)
1852 Bicester, Oxfordshire, England
Eli/Edmund Draper(18541906)
1854 Salford, Bedfordshire, England
Mary Ann Draper(18571937)
1857 Piddington, Buckinghamshire, England
Nelson Draper Smith Mr(18591939)
1859 Stoke, Buckinghamshire, England
His parents were:
William (Billy) Draper 05 Feb 1803 Moulsoe, Buckinghamshire, England. DEATH 1874 Woburn Sands, Buckinghamshire, England
Mary Cotchin Birth abt 1805 Ridgmont, Bedfordshire, England. Death 1874 Woburn Sands, Buckinghamshire, England
His Siblings were:
Eleanor Draper(18231901) 1823 Sherington, Buckinghamshire, England
William Draper(1833) abt 1833 Newport Pagnell, Buckinghamshire, England
Kisby Draper(18341925) 9 Nov 1834 Aspley Guise, Bedfordshire, England
Darnitty Draper(18371877) 1837 hogsty end, Woburn Sands, Buckinghamshire, England
Alexander (Ellick/Alec) Draper(18371896) 1837 Westerham, Kent, England
If Isreal Draper Parker's father Nelson was a first cousin of Spenser's then I am guessing that Nelson was a son of William (Billy) Draper's brother or sister.
The only siblings I have for William (Billy) Draper are:
Israel Draper(1807) 1807 Newton, Buckinghamshire, England
Samuel Draper(1808)
I can't find anything out about Samuel so he must be wrong. I have the following information for Isreal:
Baptism Newton-Blossomville, Buckingham, England, parents William Draper and Eleanor.
He may have had a relationship with someone called Louisa and had a son called Levi and he may have married a Rebecca Clare in 1844 but I can't find any children.
Perhaps Isreal had a son called Nelson who was the father of Isreal in the picture or perhaps William (Billy) Draper had another Sibling I don't know about who is the father of Nelson?
William (Billy) Draper, Isreal Draper and Samuel Draper's parents were William who died in Woburn Sands 1834 and Eleanor who died in 1838.
Do you know who Nelson's father was please so that I can tie Nelson, Isreal Draper/Parker and my Spenser Draper together?
Sorry to ask but I get so confused with putting things together for the early Drapers!
Best wishes,
Emma
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Hi Emma. This lot are part of my family. A distant cousin/friend of mine is a granddaughter of Israel and Saney. From my research Israel was the son of Israel Draper who later used the name Nelson Parker. His partner was Naomi Smith. Her mum was Esther Loveridge a sister of my 3rd great grandad James.
Israel we think was born in 1837 to Nelson Draper and his partner Esther. Now I'm not totally sure but I think his parents were William and Argetto, but I haven't done to much that far back.
I do know Israel/ Nelson and Naomi had a son called Spencer 1873_1910 his partner was Elizabeth Smith and I know of 1 son called Nelson.
Spencer ,Nelson and Israel are named which are still used in the family today. Israel and Saney had a Spencer too. Oh and I see you have a Kisby too. We had 2 Kisby's father and son. So I'm sure the families are connected.
Hope this helps. Tracey
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Hi Emma. This lot are part of my family. A distant cousin/friend of mine is a granddaughter of Israel and Saney. From my research Israel was the son of Israel Draper who later used the name Nelson Parker. His partner was Naomi Smith. Her mum was Esther Loveridge a sister of my 3rd great grandad James.
Israel we think was born in 1837 to Nelson Draper and his partner Esther. Now I'm not totally sure but I think his parents were William and Argetto, but I haven't done to much that far back.
I do know Israel/ Nelson and Naomi had a son called Spencer 1873_1910 his partner was Elizabeth Smith and I know of 1 son called Nelson.
Spencer ,Nelson and Israel are named which are still used in the family today. Israel and Saney had a Spencer too. Oh and I see you have a Kisby too. We had 2 Kisby's father and son. So I'm sure the families are connected.
Hope this helps. Tracey
Thank you very much for getting back to me, this really helps to place everyone and to think about how we might be linked. Perhaps our common Draper ancestor was William Draper who married Eleanor or maybe even his parents but I am struggling to get back that far!
Anyway, thanks ever so much for getting in touch.
Best wishes,
Emma