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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Nigel B on Tuesday 12 January 10 12:36 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find more information on Thomas Nicholson and his wife Ann Smith, I know they definitely
had:
A daughter Ann Nicholson born 5th April 1811 and christened 17th April 1811 at Wesleyan Methodist Church, North Shields
A son Thomas Brown Nicholson born 26th Dec 1812 and christened 31st Jan 1812 also at Wesleyan Methodist Church, North Shields. I know Thomas Brown Nicholson occupation was a plaster and painter and moved with his wife and family to Machester between 1841 and 51, perhaps his father was in the same profession ?
Possibly another daughter Elizabeth Brown Nicholson born 1820, Newcastle, mother only listed as Ann so not 100% certain
I have not been able to find any more children but there probably is
I have all the information from 1812 onwards, helped a lot from folk on this site :)
It would be great to find out more on their parents and if there was other children
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I have Thomas Nicholson and Ann Brown, married 1808 St. Nicholas, Northumberland, Newcastle
Looking at Newcastle City web site
http://www.ndfhs.org.uk/RegIndex.html
The online search only starts from 1837, if I send in I should be able to get a 1808 cert and will this give me their parents names ?
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The online search only starts from 1837, if I send in I should be able to get a 1808 cert and will this give me their parents names ?
Unfortunately not. There were no marriage certificates before 1837, when Civil Registration began. This is why the online search starts from 1837.
The best you can hope for is that someone will do a Parish Records look-up for you, and that the St Nicholas records contain the name of the parents (not always the case I'm afraid).
Sorry not to be much help.
Jennifer
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The online search only starts from 1837, if I send in I should be able to get a 1808 cert and will this give me their parents names ?
Unfortunately not. There were no marriage certificates before 1837, when Civil Registration began. This is why the online search starts from 1837.
The best you can hope for is that someone will do a Parish Records look-up for you, and that the St Nicholas records contain the name of the parents (not always the case I'm afraid).
Sorry not to be much help.
Jennifer
Thanks for your response :) should I post a request in the Look-up section ?
Also I live in Newcastle, is it possible to access the records at St. Nicholas in person ?
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Try looking at the Durham Bishop's Transcripts here http://www.rootschat.com/links/073w/
Select Durham, then Newcastle on Tyne. This takes you to the Newcastle St Nicholas transcripts.
You might find the marriage record there. You have to browse from page to page - they are not searchable by keyword.
Jennifer
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I just checked the Transcripts myself.
On the link I gave you, once you have got to the Newcastle St Nicholas page, enter the number 329 in the box marked 'image' towards the top right of the page, and press the return button.
This takes you to the 1808 marriages, and will be able to see that of Thomas and Ann....but sadly no other details are given.
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Nigel,
As you live in Newcastle, you could see the marriage on film. Jennifer's labours has turned up the " Bishop's Transcrift", which is a copy of the original church marriage record. The transcripts were sent periodically from each parish to Bishop of Durham. It is possible that original record contains additional info !
Records available in Tyne & Wear Archives, Blandford Square ( Discovery Museum building- phone to book a filmreader.. www.tyneandweararchives.org.uk)
Michael
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I just checked the Transcripts myself.
On the link I gave you, once you have got to the Newcastle St Nicholas page, enter the number 329 in the box marked 'image' towards the top right of the page, and press the return button.
This takes you to the 1808 marriages, and will be able to see that of Thomas and Ann....but sadly no other details are given.
Thank you very much for find that :) I now will need to try and find where their death was
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Nigel,
As you live in Newcastle, you could see the marriage on film. Jennifer's labours has turned up the " Bishop's Transcrift", which is a copy of the original church marriage record. The transcripts were sent periodically from each parish to Bishop of Durham. It is possible that original record contains additional info !
Records available in Tyne & Wear Archives, Blandford Square ( Discovery Museum building- phone to book a filmreader.. www.tyneandweararchives.org.uk)
Michael
This site is so helpful, thank you for the further advice :) convenient I return to where my ancestors came from !
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I just checked the Transcripts myself.
On the link I gave you, once you have got to the Newcastle St Nicholas page, enter the number 329 in the box marked 'image' towards the top right of the page, and press the return button.
This takes you to the 1808 marriages, and will be able to see that of Thomas and Ann....but sadly no other details are given.
Sorry another question what does the letter at the end of each entry mean appears to be either a B or L ?
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Nigel,
As you live in Newcastle, you could see the marriage on film. Jennifer's labours has turned up the " Bishop's Transcrift", which is a copy of the original church marriage record. The transcripts were sent periodically from each parish to Bishop of Durham. It is possible that original record contains additional info !
Records available in Tyne & Wear Archives, Blandford Square ( Discovery Museum building- phone to book a filmreader.. www.tyneandweararchives.org.uk)
Michael
Booked filmreader for next Tuesday evening so fingers crossed for finding more information.
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Nigel,
You chose a good time,,, Tues- late night closing ! Michael
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Nigel,
You chose a good time,,, Tues- late night closing ! Michael
Have a slot 5.00-8.00 should be enought time as have the exact date with help from folk here :) Might see if Thomas Brown had other siblings other than Ann. Gets quite addictive this ..lol
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Yes addictive when finding results- other emotions apply when you can't find answers lol. Michael
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The two baptism records at Tynemouth:
Ann Nicholson, daughter of Thomas Nicholson, Plasterer, in the parish of Tynemouth and county of Northumberland, by his wife Ann Brown, daughter of Thomas Brown, Bookbinder, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was born April 5th 1811 and baptised April 17th 1811, by Daniel Isaac.
Thomas Brown Nicholson, son of Thomas Nicholson, Plasterer, Tynemouth parish, county of Northumberland, by his wife Ann Brown, daughter of Thomas Brown, Stationer, of Newcastle, County of Northumberland, was born December 26th 1812, baptised Jan 31st 1813, by William Bayton.
Three baptisms at Brunswick Wesleyan Chapel, Newcastle :
John Dobson Nicholson, son of Thomas Ann Nicholson, Plasterer, of Mosley St. All Saints parish, Newcastle, born Oct 8th 1818, baptised March 9th 1819, by Edmund Grindrod.
Elizabeth Brown Nicholson, daughter of Thomas and Ann Nicholson, Plasterer, of St. Nicholas Parish Newcastle, born October 22nd 1820, baptised November 7th 1820, by William Theobald.
Mary Nicholson, daughter of Thomas and Ann Nicholson, Plasterer, of St. Nicholas Parish Newcastle, born June 20th 1824, baptised July 3rd 1824, by John Davis.
Alan.
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The two baptism records at Tynemouth:
Ann Nicholson, daughter of Thomas Nicholson, Plasterer, in the parish of Tynemouth and county of Northumberland, by his wife Ann Brown, daughter of Thomas Brown, Bookbinder, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was born April 5th 1811 and baptised April 17th 1811, by Daniel Isaac.
Thomas Brown Nicholson, son of Thomas Nicholson, Plasterer, Tynemouth parish, county of Northumberland, by his wife Ann Brown, daughter of Thomas Brown, Stationer, of Newcastle, County of Northumberland, was born December 26th 1812, baptised Jan 31st 1813, by William Bayton.
Three baptisms at Brunswick Wesleyan Chapel, Newcastle :
John Dobson Nicholson, son of Thomas Ann Nicholson, Plasterer, of Mosley St. All Saints parish, Newcastle, born Oct 8th 1818, baptised March 9th 1819, by Edmund Grindrod.
Elizabeth Brown Nicholson, daughter of Thomas and Ann Nicholson, Plasterer, of St. Nicholas Parish Newcastle, born October 22nd 1820, baptised November 7th 1820, by William Theobald.
Mary Nicholson, daughter of Thomas and Ann Nicholson, Plasterer, of St. Nicholas Parish Newcastle, born June 20th 1824, baptised July 3rd 1824, by John Davis.
Alan.
Thanks for you help :)
Had the two births at Tynemouth, but not Thomas Nicholson occupation, thought likely to be plasterer as son was , but did not know either Ann Brown's father or his application, that great to have. Where did you obtain that information ? :)
The three Newcastle births look like they could be siblings to Ann & Thomas, all baptised at Wesleyan Churches. I do know Thomas Brown Nicholson was married to Ann Smith 4Q1838 in Newcastle, have ordered a copy of his wedding cert.
Interesting the gap from their marriage Oct 1808, to the birth of the (possible) first child in 1811 then after Thomas another gap unyil John is born in 1818.
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You sometimes get your knuckles rapped on here for revealing sources of info, breach of copyright etc. Lets just say I have an expensive and underused annual subscription with a Genealogy site. pm me your email address and I'll send you copies of the original documents (always nice to have).
In 1851 census there is
Westgate, Newcastle,
Thomas Nicholson, head, 70, Plasterer, b. Egglescliffe, Durham
Ann Nicholson, wife, 67, b. Newcastle
HO107/2404/436/71
Could be yours.
Alan.
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You sometimes get your knuckles rapped on here for revealing sources of info, breach of copyright etc. Lets just say I have an expensive and underused annual subscription with a Genealogy site. pm me your email address and I'll send you copies of the original documents (always nice to have).
In 1851 census there is
Westgate, Newcastle,
Thomas Nicholson, head, 70, Plasterer, b. Egglescliffe, Durham
Ann Nicholson, wife, 67, b. Newcastle
HO107/2404/436/71
Could be yours.
Alan.
Understand, I subscribe to a genealogy site possibly the same one ;) just not as good at find info, I will pm you :-)
Thanks again for you help, would be great to get to pre 1800
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Nigel,
As you live in Newcastle, you could see the marriage on film. Jennifer's labours has turned up the " Bishop's Transcrift", which is a copy of the original church marriage record. The transcripts were sent periodically from each parish to Bishop of Durham. It is possible that original record contains additional info !
Records available in Tyne & Wear Archives, Blandford Square ( Discovery Museum building- phone to book a filmreader.. www.tyneandweararchives.org.uk)
Michael
Had a fairly productive evening at the Discovery Museum
Viewed orginal record of the marriage for Thomas Nicholson & Ann Brown 17th October 1808 at St Nicholas Newcastle, gaving two witnesses a Thomas Brown and John Thompson. John appears to have witnesses a few of the wedding at that time as did a Thomas Brown, but the signature of "mine" does looks different from the others. So he could be the father of Ann, who was Thomas Brown and was a bookbinder/stationer reviewing the directories for newcastle 1838 & 39 I found Thomas Brown and Son bookbinders & stationer, the only one listed in Newcastle.
Reading a pamphlet on book binders found that Thomas Brown I, died in 1822 was apprenticed to William Charnley admitted by Servitude to the Company of upholsters, tinplate workers and stationers on the 8th Dec 1774 and was joined by his son Thomas Brown II and after 1801 company appeared in directories as Thomas Brown & Son. Not sure yet if Ann's father was thomas Brown the 1st or 2nd , tend to think the 1st though.
Found Thomas Nicholson listed as a Ornamental plaster, Northumberland Street in the 1824 General Directory. Then his son Thomas Brown Nicholson being apprenticed for 7 years on the 6th Feb 1826 to John Walker.
Think another Tuesday evening needs to be booked :D
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The two baptism records at Tynemouth:
Ann Nicholson, daughter of Thomas Nicholson, Plasterer, in the parish of Tynemouth and county of Northumberland, by his wife Ann Brown, daughter of Thomas Brown, Bookbinder, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was born April 5th 1811 and baptised April 17th 1811, by Daniel Isaac.
Thomas Brown Nicholson, son of Thomas Nicholson, Plasterer, Tynemouth parish, county of Northumberland, by his wife Ann Brown, daughter of Thomas Brown, Stationer, of Newcastle, County of Northumberland, was born December 26th 1812, baptised Jan 31st 1813, by William Bayton.
Three baptisms at Brunswick Wesleyan Chapel, Newcastle :
John Dobson Nicholson, son of Thomas Ann Nicholson, Plasterer, of Mosley St. All Saints parish, Newcastle, born Oct 8th 1818, baptised March 9th 1819, by Edmund Grindrod.
Elizabeth Brown Nicholson, daughter of Thomas and Ann Nicholson, Plasterer, of St. Nicholas Parish Newcastle, born October 22nd 1820, baptised November 7th 1820, by William Theobald.
Mary Nicholson, daughter of Thomas and Ann Nicholson, Plasterer, of St. Nicholas Parish Newcastle, born June 20th 1824, baptised July 3rd 1824, by John Davis.
Alan.
Looks like the three additional batisms you had were correct :-)
Just received a copy of Thomas Brown Nicholson marriage cert to Ann Smith 1838 and its witness by George Dobson Nicholson.
Wondering why there is the apparent gap between child Nr 2 Thomas 1812 and the third child George 1818. More worked needed I think ... :D
Thanks for you help :)
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Reading a pamphlet on book binders found that Thomas Brown I, died in 1822 was apprenticed to William Charnley admitted by Servitude to the Company of upholsters, tinplate workers and stationers on the 8th Dec 1774 and was joined by his son Thomas Brown II and after 1801 company appeared in directories as Thomas Brown & Son.
I am brand new to this website on account of this passage. I am the Great Great Great Great Grandson of Thomas Brown II, and would be very curious to see a copy of this pamphlet about his father and any information that anyone might have about Thomas Brown I and his family, as I know next to nothing about him.
Thomas Brown II emigrated to Toronto in 1846 and set up a bookbinding business. After retiring due to ill health, sons Thomas, Richard and John took over the family business under the name Brown Brothers in 1856. Their shop on King Street, Toronto can be clearly seen in this 1856 view, courtesy of the Toronto Archives:
http://tinyurl.com/23cqeu8
There was a 1924 family tree distributed amongst the family (which we call the Little Green Brown Book) that gives a little family history. I can provide anyone interested with a scanned copy of it, as well as my own on-going research fleshing it out with dates (none were given in the original), copies of obituaries, marriage notices, etc. as well as bringing it up to date.
Cheers,
James Feenstra
Originally (and still sometimes) of Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Now of Fairfax, Virginia, United States
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Reading a pamphlet on book binders found that Thomas Brown I, died in 1822 was apprenticed to William Charnley admitted by Servitude to the Company of upholsters, tinplate workers and stationers on the 8th Dec 1774 and was joined by his son Thomas Brown II and after 1801 company appeared in directories as Thomas Brown & Son.
I am brand new to this website on account of this passage. I am the Great Great Great Great Grandson of Thomas Brown II, and would be very curious to see a copy of this pamphlet about his father and any information that anyone might have about Thomas Brown I and his family, as I know next to nothing about him.
Thomas Brown II emigrated to Toronto in 1846 and set up a bookbinding business. After retiring due to ill health, sons Thomas, Richard and John took over the family business under the name Brown Brothers in 1856. Their shop on King Street, Toronto can be clearly seen in this 1856 view, courtesy of the Toronto Archives:
http://tinyurl.com/23cqeu8
There was a 1924 family tree distributed amongst the family (which we call the Little Green Brown Book) that gives a little family history. I can provide anyone interested with a scanned copy of it, as well as my own on-going research fleshing it out with dates (none were given in the original), copies of obituaries, marriage notices, etc. as well as bringing it up to date.
Cheers,
James Feenstra
Originally (and still sometimes) of Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Now of Fairfax, Virginia, United States
Unfortumately I don't have a copy of the pamphlet, Ann Brown was my 4 x great grand mother, and I believe was the older sister to Thomas Brown II by three years. The the Baptism of their daughter Ann born 5th April 1811 gives Ann Brown father Thomas Brown occupation as Bookbinder and when their son Thomas Brown born 26th Dec 1812 has Ann Brown father occupation as stationer.
I can only find one Thomas Brown bookbinder at that time in Newcastle upon Tyne so quite likely related.
I have not been able to find any records for Ann or Thomas Nicholson after the 1851 census
All the best in your research
Nigel
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Nigel,
You asked a year ago what B or L means after a marriage. If you haven't figured it out now--it is by banns or by license. The Marriage Bonds and Allegations are available on line on the family search site with the BT's. If by license. Banns are probably available at T and W.
Janis
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The closest Thomas Nicholson I could find born in Eaglescliffe was one baptised 25 Aug 1782 son of Thomas and Isabel Nicholson of Eaglescliffe, Bricklayer.
Maybe papa Nicholson layed the brick and jr learned to apply a stucco to them? ;D
Thomas Nicholson married Isabella Breckon 13 May 1777, by banns Wit: Henry Eeles and Ellen Nicholson neither were serial witnesses, Eaglescliffe
Janis
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Nigel,
You asked a year ago what B or L means after a marriage. If you haven't figured it out now--it is by banns or by license. The Marriage Bonds and Allegations are available on line on the family search site with the BT's. If by license. Banns are probably available at T and W.
Janis
Janis
Thanks for update and your help :-)
Found their marriage at T &W I do need to have another visit back there as saw a transcript of Thomas Nicholson's son, Thomas Brown Nicholson 1812-1881, being apprenticed as a plasteron the 6th Feb 1826 to John Walker for 7 years; Waller, Bricklayer and Plasters Company, hoping the original might give more information on his Dad.
Think your information on Thomas Nicholson father being a bricklayer is quite possible correct .
Intererstling Thomas Nicholson had another son George Dobson Nicholson born 1818, wonder if the Dobson from John Dobson the Architect as about the same era
Thanks again for help
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The closest Thomas Nicholson I could find born in Eaglescliffe was one baptised 25 Aug 1782 son of Thomas and Isabel Nicholson of Eaglescliffe, Bricklayer.
Maybe papa Nicholson layed the brick and jr learned to apply a stucco to them? ;D
Thomas Nicholson married Isabella Breckon 13 May 1777, by banns Wit: Henry Eeles and Ellen Nicholson neither were serial witnesses, Eaglescliffe
Janis
Thanks for info, looking quite possibly the parents, I have obtain a copy of Thomas Nicholson death cert 1853, confirms occupation as plasterer and same area of newcastle upon tyne as on the 1851 census and age at death of 73, born 1780-81 seems correct.
Although his wife seems to have died before him as an Ann Baty recorded the death, so next step is to get a death cert for Ann Nicholson death between 1851 and 1853 and registered by Thomas Nicholson appear to be only 2
Was wondering where you got the detail to the marriage of Thomas and Isabell as i could only find basic info i.e. the year ?
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I cheat--I have a Herbert Maxwell Wood trancript of Eaglescliffe St. John the Baptist CMB 1540-1812 which is pretty much a word for word transcript of the parish records.
I didn't cheat too much though--it is not indexed so you have to look entry by entry.
Janis
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I cheat--I have a Herbert Maxwell Wood trancript of Eaglescliffe St. John the Baptist CMB 1540-1812 which is pretty much a word for word transcript of the parish records.
I didn't cheat too much though--it is not indexed so you have to look entry by entry.
Janis
Thanks for cheating that time, Thomas as a first name passed down through 4 generations of sons , so feel that the one you found is correct, also the occupation makes sense. Doubt I will get much further back on that family line
Going to the Crabandlobster near Thirsk soon, so might visit Egglescliffe/Eaglescliffe on the way down :-)
Nige
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Hello, I'm researching the Brown's in Newcastle, Northumberland, UK and was curious if we have any connection? I believe Thomas Brown I is my husband's 4x great-grandfather, Thomas II emigrated to Canada and his sons continued in the bookbinding trade. I don't have much information on any ancestors. Tom II married Ann Spoor in 1825. They were Methodist & Ann's family were acquainted with John Wesley. Possibly Ann Brown Nicholson is the sister of Thomas II? I would like to know if there are any other siblings? Any information on the Browns further back?
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Hello, I'm researching the Brown's in Newcastle, Northumberland, UK and was curious if we have any connection? I believe Thomas Brown I is my husband's 4x great-grandfather, Thomas II emigrated to Canada and his sons continued in the bookbinding trade. I don't have much information on any ancestors. Tom II married Ann Spoor in 1825. They were Methodist & Ann's family were acquainted with John Wesley. Possibly Ann Brown Nicholson is the sister of Thomas II? I would like to know if there are any other siblings? Any information on the Browns further back?
Yes we are possibly connected Thomas Brown I is my 5th Great Grand father, his daughter Ann sister to Thomas Brown II, married my Thomas Nicholson on the 17th Oct 1808
Regards
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Hello! I am wondering if anyone on this thread may have additional information on the Ann SPOOR who married Thomas Brown on 8-24-1825 at All Saints, Newcastle. There was a branch of Spoors in Whickham who were strongly Methodist - even having the Spoor Memorial Chapel in Whickham, Co. Durham named in honor of a family member. Thank you! patrexjax
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Hello! I am wondering if anyone on this thread may have additional information on the Ann SPOOR who married Thomas Brown on 8-24-1825 at All Saints, Newcastle. There was a branch of Spoors in Whickham who were strongly Methodist - even having the Spoor Memorial Chapel in Whickham, Co. Durham named in honor of a family member. Thank you! patrexjax
Ann Spoor birth 14th March 1802, baptism 7th September 1802, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England. Father's name: Robert Spoor and Mother's name:
Anne Oliver, Maternal Grandfather's Name: Thomas Oliver
Will see what else I can find
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Hello Nigel B, Thank you for that information. I suspect that Robert Spoor was chr 2 Aug 1778 at All Saints Newcastle and that his parents were John Spoor and Isabella Curry. Do you think I am on the correct path so far?? Most sincerely, patrexjax
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Hello Nigel B, Thank you for that information. I suspect that Robert Spoor was chr 2 Aug 1778 at All Saints Newcastle and that his parents were John Spoor and Isabella Curry. Do you think I am on the correct path so far?? Most sincerely, patrexjax
I have got the same date for baptism 2nd Aug, father John Spoor not yet got his mother's name, his marriage to Ann Oliver was 14th Oct 1800
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Hello Nigel B. So far, we are on the same path! I suspect that Robert Spoor's parents were John Spoor and Isabella Curry who married 13 Nov 1777 in All Saints Newcastle. Sincerely, patrexjax