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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cambridgeshire => Topic started by: Luzzu on Saturday 16 January 10 14:16 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am looking for advice and guidance please as I don't know the Wisbech area at all. Unfortunately I am unable to visit to look out local records as I live in Malta.
Family sources have told me that the Culy line I am researching came from France originally, possibly Methodist missionaries and the name could have been spelt with a "K".
I have traced back, so far ,to David Culy who was born ca1828 in Wisbech and who married Martilmas (various spellings) Driver also born ca1828 in Wisbech. The marriage was registered 3rd qtr 1849 North Witchford 14 175. David Culy's parents, taken from the 1841 census, were Joseph Culy born abt1801 (possibly 1799) in Wisbech and Mary also born abt 1801 (out of county)
Re the French connection, I have found reference to a David Culy of Guyhirn (who was the son of a French Protestant refugee) who in 1695, founded a sect (The Culimites, I think) who had extreme Anabaptist beliefs. David Culy died in 1725. I think there were also Baptist and Methodist Chapels in Wisbech so it seems that non-conformity was popular in the area.
So I have to go back a little bit further to prove a link but I've got stuck and am not sure what to do next.
Any help would be gratefully received.
Luzzu
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The Cambs FHS website at http://www.cfhs.org.uk/Search.html is a good place to start
There's a baptism index 1801-37 which has plenty of Culys. but none around 1801 so it may well be that Joseph was born before 1801 (in 1861 he was 62 born Wisbech). Martinmas Driver is shown as being baptised in March.
The same website shows that transcripts of the two Wisbech parishes are also available. But I would also check the IGI at www.familysearch.org where there are 247 Culy entries in Cambs, mainly in Wisbech - but I can't see a Joseph baptised c1799.
David
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Hi Bedfordshire Boy,
Thanks for your reply.
The Cambs FHS website is really good and I can see reference both David Culy b1828 and his wife Martilmas Driver. The site confirms David's parents as Joseph Culy and Mary and it does look to me like Joseph was born in 1799.
I have also found some really useful stuff on there to help me with other parts of my research, so thanks.
Unfortunately I am really stuck on information about Joseph.
Luzzu
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Not sure that you have full details of Joseph and Mary's marriage.
It was on 18 August 1818
They were both otp
bac and sp
Mary GUY
Witnesses David Culy and Thomas Guy
Rather strangely Joseph and Mary baptised two sons close togther in 1828
Joseph on 19 February when their abode was South Brink
David on 29 February again of South Brink
The marriage of David and Martilmas appears to have taken place at March.
Selina
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Hi Selina,
:)
Thanks for posting the marriage details. Since I made the original post I haven't had much time so I hadn't got as far as finding the marriage.
Thanks for your help.
Luzzu
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Hi again Selina,
Could I ask if you are able tohelp in sorting out the other children of Joseph Culy and Mary Guy.
This is what I have:-
John bap1819
Mary A bap 1821
Joseph bap 19 Feb 1828
David bap 29 Feb 1828
Jacob bap 1835
All baptisms at Wisbech St Peter.
I have in my notes that they also had a son called Isaac born ca 1827 but my notes have got a bit mixed up so I don't know where I got him from ::).
Do you think Joseph and David could be twins? and maybe they were baptised the same day and the date might have been mistranscribed - 19/29. Just realised if it was the 29th it must have been a leap year. I will put a post on the Common Room thread and try and find out. Someone on RC will know :).
Thank you.
Luzzu
PS 1828 was a Leap Year.
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Hi Luzzu
I will reply in two parts - one now and prob pm you later, in order to try and keep out of a muddle so will deal with odds and ends!
I think you got Isaac from the 1841 census as he is with Joseph and Mary aged 14 not born in county.
On that census it looks more like South Bank than South Brink to me but needs another pair of eyes to say what they think.
There is another Culy couple baptising children around the same time Jacob and Susan (Susannah) also given as South Brink.
I couldn't see the Jacob baptised in 1835 but see that one was baptised that year at Wisbech Ship Lane Baptists, I can't help further with that.
Can't tell about Joseph and David being twins, twins would often be noted in the parish register and they are not mentioned as being so. It could be a mistranscription of the date, actually Joseph's 19th Feb is entered between two 18ths which is also a bit odd. The original register would help not doubt. However in the 1851 their ages are not identical but then that could well happen, perhaps if you trace them through the various census returns you will clarify the matter or find burials which might give ages.
Selina
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There is definitely a South Brink in Wisbech - there is a North Brink as well!
Sue
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Its good to know that Sue, thanks for clearing that point up.
Selina
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Selina
There is a large, disused non-conformist chapel in Wisbech with a graveyard around the falling down chapel. It is difficult to get at the gravestones, impossible in some cases but I am pretty sure I remember seeing a note on a stone in there (it is a walkway for the public) saying the records of those who are buried there are kept somewhere - can't however remember where the "somewhere" is? :-[
A good number of the headstones are in extremely good order.
Will try to have a look in the next couple of days. It is not that far from South Brink.
Sue
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That's good of you Sue, I am sure Luzzu will be interested in that information. There seem to be a good number of people with her Culy name interest in the area.
I have been to Wisbech a couple of times but many years ago now.
Selina
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Dear Luzzu and Selina,
Been having a bit of a browse on the non-conformist free bmd site.
freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
I got the long list by:
put in "all counties"
District Wisbech
Death
Name: Culy (do not add christian name)
date: Dec 1937 (put nil else in for dates) - does not start deaths until 1837
There are two Joseph's on here - one died in1859 the other in 1862 in Wisbe(a)ch (old spelling of Wisbech). No age was given on this site.
I note one of the Culy's mentioned (Luzzu's I think) above was baptised at St. Peters, Wisbech - that is the Parish (C of E) church in Wisbech.
Don't think this is probably new info to you but "just in case".
Sue
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Hi Selina and Sue,
I do thank you for your help. Sometimes it is difficult living such a long way away and there are so many Culys in the area.
Sue, I really appreciate you going to have a look at the old chapel for me.
Yes I can see now that Jacob wasn't baptised at Wisbech St Peter but at the Ship Lane Baptists. I does say his parents were Joseph and Mary but I am wondering if he might not be related as I don't think I saw him on the census and there is quite a big gap in the dates from the others.
I will go through the census returns again and double check everything.
Luzzu
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The 1862 Joseph death could well be relevant. It took place
at St. Peters and his age was given as 65. I don't have the full date.
Selina
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Thank you so much. I really feel I am making progress with this family now and have so much more to work on.
:D
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Hi,
I am looking for advice and guidance please as I don't know the Wisbech area at all. Unfortunately I am unable to visit to look out local records as I live in Malta.
Family sources have told me that the Culy line I am researching came from France originally, possibly Methodist missionaries and the name could have been spelt with a "K".
I have traced back, so far ,to David Culy who was born ca1828 in Wisbech and who married Martilmas (various spellings) Driver also born ca1828 in Wisbech. The marriage was registered 3rd qtr 1849 North Witchford 14 175. David Culy's parents, taken from the 1841 census, were Joseph Culy born abt1801 (possibly 1799) in Wisbech and Mary also born abt 1801 (out of county)
Re the French connection, I have found reference to a David Culy of Guyhirn (who was the son of a French Protestant refugee) who in 1695, founded a sect (The Culimites, I think) who had extreme Anabaptist beliefs. David Culy died in 1725. I think there were also Baptist and Methodist Chapels in Wisbech so it seems that non-conformity was popular in the area.
So I have to go back a little bit further to prove a link but I've got stuck and am not sure what to do next.
Any help would be gratefully received.
Luzzu
There was a large settlement of Huguenots in the Thorney/Guyhurn areas of N. Cambridgeshire, many of whom were recruited by Cornelius Vermudian to dig the drainage canals in the Fens drainage project. See http://contueor.com/wisbech/history/
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Last snippet - burial of a Mary Culy at St. Peters 1854 aged 54. Again I don't have the full date but it might prove useful.
Selina
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Hi Nick,
Thanks for the link - I have had a quick glance but will give it a proper read tomorrow. It seems like it will be really useful. Just what I was looking for.
Hi Selina,
Thanks for the Mary Culy burial.
Luzzu
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Hi Luzza and Selina,
I went to look at the cemetery today - as you can imagine, at this time of the year, apart from the path down the middle, it is wet, dark (overhanging trees) and VERY muddy - it was also cold! It was called the General Cemetery and opened in 1836 (this means there will be no one buried there who was born before about 1745 (they would have been 90 in 1835). Burials took place there (not all apparently have headstones) until the late 60's - 1969. The cemetery was closed in 1972.
It is now known as Leverington Road Cemetery - it is a Pocket Cemetery which I think means it has been allowed to grow wild (not sure about this but it is wild).
I would be very happy to have a good look at the readable gravestones in the Spring when they will be getatable (they are not at the moment) and take photos if I find Culys.
However, the notice I thought I had previously seen says that if you are researching family history you should contact the Wisbech and Fenland Museum on 01945 583817. The Curator is David Wright and the E-address is info@wisbechmuseum.org.uk I would be very happy to approach the museum but would need to know exactly what I am asking for! I am, however, going away for two months to India next week. Happy to make a visit between then and now but need details. No idea about charges - perhaps only for printing (perhaps I can just take notes).
I notice also that possibly one Culy was in Wisbech St. Mary. I know there is an old church there (called the Chapel of Ease) which has a very well maintained graveyard but I am pretty sure this was C of E - the church is in disrepair and not used. Guyhirn is also close to me - I understand there is a possibility of burials there.
Looking at IGI I note there are a large amount of Culy's in Lincolnshire - this is just around the corner from here (threecounties meet at the end of my road virtually - Cambs, Lincolnshire andNorfolk. However, I am slightly suspicious they are not the same family, largely due to first names. The area where they were particularly prevalent was Holbeach and Spalding.
Kings Lynn in Norfolk (not far from Wisbech (about 6 miles I think) is also an area for Culys.
Do let me know what you think and if you want me to pay a visit to the museum do give me the info to arm myself with. (Luzzo - I know it will be particularly difficult to research from Malta).
Sue
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Hi Sue,
Thanks for going to have a look at the cemetery. It sounds enchanting but probably you did not think so on a freezing cold January day.
I would love to take you up on the offer a visit to the museum but only if you promise you have the time as I sure you will be very busy with such a big trip coming up. Otherwise I will be happy to email the curator.
Keeping things very simple, I am trying to prove (or otherwise) a family story that our Culy line is linked to France via missionaries possibly Methodist.
So far I have found reference a David Culy of Guyhirn (who was the son of a French Protestant refugee) who in 1695, founded a sect (The Culimites, I think) who had extreme Anabaptist beliefs. David Culy died in 1725.
So I think this must be who the family story relates to.
I have traced back as far as David Culy who was baptised at Wisbech St Peter on the 29 Feb 1828. His wife was Martilmas Driver and they married in 1849.
David was the son of Joseph Culy and Mary Guy who married at Wisbech St Peter on 18 Aug 1818. Joseph Culy was born ca1799 but I haven't found his baptism or parents.
So I have a gap of 2 or 3 generations before I can link them together.
Maybe if you were able to make an initial visit to see what the possibilities are and then I could email direct as if there are any charges involved it would be better if I was in direct contact.
Thank you so much for your help.
Luzzu
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Hi Luzzo,
In 1751 an Isaac Culy was granted a licence for an Independent Meeting House in Wisbech.
I found this by googling "Wisbech - Protestant non-conformity". I expect you have seen it but ....................just in case!
Sue
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Hi,
Thanks. I probably have somewhere as I've got loads of bits and pieces I have googled which I still need to get into some kind of order.
According to the 1841 Census Joseph and Mary Culy had a son called Isaac who was born ca 1827. So the Isaac who was granted a licence could have been Joseph's grandfather or uncle.
Probably every Culy in Wisbech is descended from the original French protestant refugee ....
Luzzu
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Hi Luzzu,
I visited the Wisbech and Fenland Museum this am - stupid as I am, I forgot to take a copy of the details you had sent me BUT I did remember some of it.
The Curator of the museum, who was extremely pleasant and knowledgeable, spoke to me. He knew about the Culy's but emphasised that I/you needed to know which branch of the family we were researching. I think Nick mentioned this to you.
He said that they were not Hughgenots (sorry about spelling) but knew the story that they were anabaptists without me saying so and he said that they were really based in Guyhirn. This does seem to be the place and I am only about 5 or six miles from there - happy to "do" the graveyard. He also told me that there is a great deal on the Culy's, who may NOT be your line in Thorney museum.
I have to book "time" on their machine - it sounds as though they only have one (I explained I was not a researcher as such) and he said "don't worry we will help you as long as you tell us what you are looking for".
He knew the Culy/s were anabaptist and very strict (something seems to have gone wrong with my computer at this point so please excuse any typos) AND that there were swtill Culy's living here. There are four Culy's is Wisbech, two of whom live in the village of Elm (which is where I live) - do you want me to approach them? I haven't lived here all that long and, therefore, I really don't know anyone here. I am happy to give it a go if you want me to!!!!!
Will stop now, Sue
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Hi Sue,
I do appreciate your time and effort on my behalf. It does sound like the Curator was very nice and helpful and what he said does sound promising.
I think I need to send him an email directly and see how I get on and then depending on what I have after that, may be an approach to the Culys in Wisbech might be a good idea.
I know you have your India trip very soon so I really must let you get on with that. I will do updates on here and if you are anything like me you probably check in with Rootschat regularly.
Thank you so much. I feel really confident tonight that I will get there in the end.
Luzzu
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Good Luck with your researches Luzzu.
Look forward to your updates.
Sue
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Thanks once again and have a great trip to India.
:D
Luzzu
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Sadly my emails to the Wisbech Museum have so far gone unanswered.
:(
Luzzu
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Hi Luzza, Sorry to hear you have had no luck with Wisbech Museum.
Would it be a good idea to send me a copy of what you sent them and will visit them again and wave E-mail under their nose.
Will send E-address by pm.
Sue
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Hi again Luzza,
I think the Wisbech Museum's lack of response may be my fault!!!
I have just found another website - Local Ancestors - Wisbech Museum, with a different E-address - this time it is wisbechmuseum@beeb.net.
I'm sorry.
Sue
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Hi. You're back :D. Hope you had a really good trip. I will PM you. Luzzu.
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Hi Luzza,
Good news - have acquired from the Wisbech library (with help from the librarian) the book written by a local historian, Trevor Bevis, called "David Culy and the Culimites". He appears to find that David Culy's parents, John Culy and (would you believe I can't at the mo remember his mother's name) possibly came over with the Hughgonots - I imagine with the first wave of them. It would appear they started off in Blayhill in Lincolnshire and worked on clearing the dykes and draining the land. Their houses were burned down and various other things happened to them because the locals who were into wildfowling as a living really did not want the birds habitat altered. They fled the area and David Culy's parents went to Guyhirn. David Culy's wife was Ann Delahoy (Delahoi). They seem to have had three children (I didn't get the above and this from the book)
Boanerges Culy (male) - c1714
Ammi Culy (female) - c1714
Abraham Culy - c 1720
I don't have a dob for Boanerges BUT the name means either "twin or thunder" so I suspect they may have been twins (or perhaps very bad tempered!)
Ammi Culy married Catherine Stubbs in 1827 at Guyhirn.
A couple of days ago my husband and I visited Wisbech St. Peter Cemetery - I was sadly unable to read any gravestones and not even guess at the very old ones (which these would be). I will still visit Guyhirn.
Will pm you with more info but wanted to put this on here to keep the thread active so that if anyone else has info they can add to it.
Sue
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Thanks Sue,
That is excellent news and thank you so much for all the new information. I really appreciate your help and will look out for your PM.
:D
Luzzu
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Hi Luzzo
My mother is a Culy and I have recently started a family tree. From what I have found so far has taken me to Wisbech...... It seems there were a lot of Culys there :)
My Great Granddad Frank Ernest Culy emmigrated to New Zealand which is where I live and I believe his parents were Ammi Culy and Francis Goose. Ammi's father was Issac Culy and then it seems Issac was also his fathers name then back to another Ammi again. Does this ring any bells with you in the research you have ? If so i would love to know anything relevent but if I'm barking up the wrong "family Tree" I'm sorry and please disregard this. Thanks a lot :)
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Hi Meghem. Thanks for posting. I can't immediately see a connection to the line I have been looking at although there probably is one. The Culys in Wisbech all seem to be connected as I think they married their cousins.
I am back to Joseph Culy and Mary Guy who married in 1818. I was hoping to prove a link back to David Culy, the son of the French Protestant refugee. However, I still have a gap of around 100 years. Unfortunately I haven't had time to do much work on it lately so haven't made much progress.
Luzzu :)
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hi all
haven,t seen this post before today and i,ve found some culy,s in the non conformist records for wisbech now some you may already have but i,ll post them as i found them , only this post is nearly as long as war and peace ;D.
baptist chapel , upper hill street [ formerly ship lane ] in the parish of st peter wisbech.
david culy born 14 april 1825 father ephram mother elizabeth parish of abode south brink
juliana culy born 22 sep 1825 father david mother hannah
castle square independant chapel
edmund tobutt culy born 22 jan 1826 bpt 23 july 1826 father john mother ann [johns occ timber merchant ]
baptist chapel upper hill street
hannah culy buried 3 june 1827 [ no age given ] father david mother ? [ non given]
castle sq ind chapel
caroline ibberson culy born 30 nov 1824 bpt 9 mar 1828 father john mother ann
baptist chapel upper hill street
david culy born 26 may 1829 father david mother hannah
epraim culy born 1 dec 1832 registration date 3 jan 1833 father joseph mother mary
elizabeth culy died june 1833 [ no age given ] father ephraim mother elizabeth
matilda culy died 16 june 1833 [ no age given ] father david mother hannah
william culy born 24 dec 1833 father david mother hannah
ephram culy born 5 oct 1834 registration date 9 march 1835 father ephram mother elizabeth
castle sq ind chapel
carrina culy born 31 oct 1808 bpt 2 jan 1835 father moses mother carrina [ moses occ farmer ] parish of abode tyd st giles
baptist chapel upper hill street
jacob culy born 31 oct 1835 father joseph mother mary
matilda culy born 14 aug 1836 father david mother hannah
david culy died 4 dec 1836 parish of abode market place wisbech st peters [ occ butcher ]
hope some of this may help
best wishes
trevor
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Appreciate your time Trevor. Thanks :D.
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Hello, everyone. I just came across this old thread and thought I'd post this message in the hope that someone knowledgeable might see it.
My husband's 2nd ggrandfather was David Culy, son of Ephraim Culy and Elizabeth Copeland, born in Wisbech St. Peter in 1825. Ephraim and Elizabeth were married in Wisbech St. Peter on 20 November 1821. I have done quite a bit of research on the family and found some relevant Cambridgeshire records for this family group and many U.S. records. This family emigrated to the U.S. in 1836.
I would like to know how this family group is related to the other Culys and Copelands in the Cambridgeshire area. I've had no luck finding a birth record for this Ephraim Culy, however, who was born about 1800, or Elizabeth Copeland, born about 1802, based on several U.S. records. An unsourced narrative provided by a Culy cousin in Indiana gives a birth date of 20 April 1800 for Ephraim and 17 July 1801 for Elizabeth. It also gives Ephraim's parents as possibly John Culy and Mary Scouter and Elizabeth's parents as unknown.
I am also interested in knowing what records exist for the parents, siblings, and descendants of the earlier David Culy who founded the Culimite sect. I don't have access to a copy of Trevor Bevis' book on this David Culy.
If anyone can point me toward this information, I'd be very grateful. Also, if birth records for Ephraim and Elizabeth are nowhere to be found, what might be the reasons for this? For example, are records missing for the relevant groups of years?
Finally, are there any descendants of Wisbech-area Culys or Copelands who have had their autosomal DNA tested? If so, I'd like to hear from you. My husband tested with FamilyTreeDNA a few years ago, and his results have also been uploaded to GEDmatch.com. His name on FTDNA is Nicholas John Cafarelli, and his kit number on GEDmatch is F242901.
Thanks!