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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Jytefas on Sunday 17 January 10 14:59 GMT (UK)
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Attempting to break down my Brick Wall, :) I am looking for any information on a Thomas Kavanagh born mid 1820s. Thomas, his parents, & sibling were evicted from their family property at Rathpierce, Ballyfad, Co. Wexford. He and 3 of his brothers James (my Great Grand father), Christopher and Charles moved to Dublin to live.
Thomas marries Ellen Mullins (Mullen) about 1873 or earlier and have two sons Patrick born Oct 1873 and Christopher b April 1878. There may have been more children from this union.
Thomas is supposable to have lived for a time at # 6 North William St., Dublin, and owned a Dairy Shop at # 34 North William St..
Does this ring any bells for anybody?
Kindest
John G.
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some details from various Thom's directories.. might help establish a timeline of addresses..
1880 Nrth William Str
#6 Dempsey, Mr. Thomas,
theres no number 34.. numbers jump from 13 to 36
(#34 William Street - number 34 & 35 are vacant)
St. Agatha's church is just after number 37
1884 Nrth William Str
#5 to 12 Keegan, John, dairy (tenements)
#34 Thomas Kavanagh, diary
1894 Nrth William Str
#6 Baggott, Mrs. Emily
#34 (Vacant)
there's no Thomas Kavanagh listed among the registered dairies
see eadaoin's reply to your other thread for possible parish record sources - North William Street – Closest RC Church and Cemetery? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,431219.msg2957624.html#msg2957624)
Shane
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Thank you Shane, I really appreciate that, at least I now know where Thomas lived in 1884. another question, do any Mullin(s)/Mullen appear in North William St?
Now that my family folklore seems pretty reliable, it is said that Thomas’s brothers Charles and Christopher were Millers, at Alexander Warf. I have absolutely nothing else on either of them.
Cheers
John G.
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Making progress at last,
From records for St Agatha's Church, I found a CHRISTOPHERUS, born 16th Feb 1878 to Thoma Cavanagh and Ellena Mullens. Address given as 6 N. William. Unable to find birth of older son Patrick. Possibly family were moving about the place. Will continue to dig!
Kindest
John
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Thank you Shane, I really appreciate that, at least I now know where Thomas lived in 1884. another question, do any Mullin(s)/Mullen appear in North William St?
Now that my family folklore seems pretty reliable, it is said that Thomas’s brothers Charles and Christopher were Millers, at Alexander Warf. I have absolutely nothing else on either of them.
Cheers
John G.
I dont see any Mullens listed on Nrth William St in 1884.
I had a look for any details on Charles and Christopher, but I dont believe that Alexandra road, or Wharf existed in the 1880s.. looks like that area was built on reclaimed land. Alexandra-place is the only instance of that name in 1884, and it only has two houses..neither are Kavanaghs.
See this c1880 Dublin Map (http://roots.swilson.info/dublinnorthcountyc1880/dublinenvirons_c1880_N.html) - no sign of Alexandra Rd or Basin. Alexandra basin is marked on the edge of this 1912 Dublin Map (http://roots.swilson.info/dublin1912/dublin1912.html)
p.s. that Irish Genealogy website is not completed, they are still adding Dublin city records
Shane
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Thank you once again Shane,
If I could trouble you once more,.... family lore has it that when my Great Grandfather James and his brothers moved to Dublin to live, James supposable went to an Aunt to live (1850) (McCann or Kavanagh). His aunt was married to a man named McBride of Newtown Park, who was a dairy farmer and he sold milk to the poor in Dublin. James worked with McBride for some time.
Does a McBride appear in Thom's directories for Newtown Park?
Kindest
John G.
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Thank you once again Shane,
If I could trouble you once more,.... family lore has it that when my Great Grandfather James and his brothers moved to Dublin to live, James supposable went to an Aunt to live (1850) (McCann or Kavanagh). His aunt was married to a man named McBride of Newtown Park, who was a dairy farmer and he sold milk to the poor in Dublin. James worked with McBride for some time.
Does a McBride appear in Thom's directories for Newtown Park?
Kindest
John G.
some possibly connected listings for Newtown-park, Blackrock in 1848 :
Joseph Drevar, dairyman
1850
Joseph Drevar, dairyman
James Kavanagh [no occupation]
1852
Joseph Drevar, dairyman
John Carroll, diary
1863
John Jolly, dairy
no sign of any other McCann, Kavanagh or McBride entries. Maybe the McBride farmer was associated with one of the dairies listed...
Shane
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Many thanks Shane, ..... The 1850 entry looks good and could well be a match for my James Kavanagh, as the time frame is correct. I will have a look a Griffiths Valuations to see if anything further there.
Regards
John
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jytefas
My surname is Mullins and my grandfather was Joseph Mullen from High St. Dublin. His father was George Mullen from Hanbury Lane in Dublin. Beyond that I am lost. Our ancestors may be connected further back.
Re: Thomas Kavanagh and Ellen Mullen - I located the baptism of their son, Patrick (1873) on www.irishgenealogy.ie
It was in the R.C. parish of Sandyford, which was then outside the city, to the south in county Dublin.
I also located a baptism of a Ellen Mullen on 30 Dec 1852, in the R.C. parish of St. Jame's. Parents - James Mullen and Mary Anne Brady.
Regards,
Brendan
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Thank you Brendan,
Appreciate the information on Patrick, It now looks like my Kavanagh’s Thomas and James first settled in the Sandyford Parish Area.
James Kavanagh’s family 6 of 10 were all baptised in the Sandyford Parish R.C. Church. Home addresses during this time are given as Burton Hall, Killiney, Murphystown, Stillorgan and finally Burton Hall again on the last two baptized here. The time span is Feb 1869 – Dec 1876.
Shortly after this James and family moved to Cavan and remained there until 1881 when they finally returned back to North Wexford to live.
It will be interesting to see how the Kavanagh/Mullen line develops. Actually I may have found enough information on the Family Research website to order a Marriage certificate for Thomas and Ellen Mullen from the GRO.
It was the only ‘match-up’ I could find and all the details match perfectly and are:
Registration District: Rathdown
Reg Date: 1871
Film #: 101251
Vol #: 7
Page #: 888
Last time I ordered certificates from the GRO it took up to 6 weeks before I received them…so am hoping for some improvement this time round. On receipt I will gladly share the information with you.
Kind regards
John
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It was the only ‘match-up’ I could find and all the details match perfectly and are:
Registration District: Rathdown
Reg Date: 1871
Film #: 101251
Vol #: 7
Page #: 888
Last time I ordered certificates from the GRO it took up to 6 weeks before I received them…so am hoping for some improvement this time round....
it's best to only include the details I've highlighted (along with the Name..) when ordering certs, as the Film and Images references are for LDS use only, and mean nothing to the GRO staff. Including these could cause a problem with your order.
Shane
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Thanks Shane, I have just faxed off the application for the Marriage cert omitting the film number. Its sit back and wait now!! ;D..... Regards John
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I dont think the backlog is too bad at the moment... there was a recent post mentioning that certs arrived in about a week.
Shane
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just as a bit of background interest, Newtown Park Village was quite a dairying area - I suppose up to WWI, maybe.
Even in the 1950s there was a horse drawn dairy cart selling loose milk in the area - I often saw it as I came home from school.
eadaoin
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jytefas
I was doing some research in the library today so I looked up some of your ancestors as well.
I found 3 baptisms in Sandyford R C parish,which you may already have.
Patrick Kavanagh Address Burton Hall
D of Birth 11-2-1869 D of Bapt 15-21869
Parents James Kavanagh and Catherine ?
Sponsors Thom. Kavanagh Julia Doyle
Catherine Kavanagh Address Stillorgan
D of Birth 29-7-1873 D of Bapt 3-8-1873
Parents James Kavanagh and Catherine ?
Sponsors James Kavanagh Ellen Doran
Phelim? Kavanagh Address Burton Hall
D of Birth 20-11-1876 D of Bapt 21-11-1876
Parents James Kavanagh and Catherine
Sponsors Edmund O'Driscoll Mary Hayden
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Thanks Eadaoin and Brendan for your assistance with this query.
Brendan... I could have saved you some valuable time had you mentioned you were going to do that today, as I have the family of James and Catherine (my Great Grand Parents) pretty much sorted out at this stage, but thank your for keeping me in mind.
What I am interested in however is did Guinness & Mahon own land in the Burton Hall, Sandyford, Stillorgan area during the 1870s?
Again family lore which is proving pretty reliable has it that James spent some time with McBride of Newtown Park selling milk and then later got a job with Guinness and Mahon the bankers. He worked on the farming end of the business which I believe was Mahons responsibility. The supplied the oats etc for the horses to draw the carriages. Just curious to see if this actually stands up to scrutiny.
Kindest Regards
John G.
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What I am interested in however is did Guinness & Mahon own land in the Burton Hall, Sandyford, Stillorgan area during the 1870s?
found this in Thom's 1880 :
Henry Guinness, Burton Hall, Stillorgan
Private Banks in Dublin
GUINNESS, MAHON, & Co., 17, College-green (John Ross Mahon, J.P., Richard Seymour Guinness, J.P., Henry Guinness.)—London Agents, Alliance Bank, Bartholomew Lane, E.C.
Henry is also listed in the Stillorgan section
Leopardstown-road (From Newtownpark avenue to Murphy's-town)
Henry Guinness, esq. J . P . Burton Hall
Shane
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Wowww , now that’s interesting to know, many thanks Shane…… John
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Busy reading now..... ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Guinness
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jytefas
Here are 3 websites that might interest you -
gardens.ireland-guide.com/burton_hall.garden.7049.html
www.esatclear.ie/~emal/berna.html
www.sandyfordparish.org/UPLOADS/stpatrickscemetary.pdf - type Kavanagh in 'find' box at top.
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there's a half-page about Burton Hall in "Between the Mountains and the Sea" by Peter Pearson.
Unfortunately, no photo! .. said to have been built in 1730 by Samuel Burton, Henry Guiness added a large servants' wing, possibly damaged by fire in the troubles of the 1920s, now(1998) owned by Eastern Health Board.
eadaoin
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it doesn't look like Mahon had a Stillorgan connection -his details are given as :
John Ross Mahon, J.P. land agent—office, 17 College Green
and Strokestown
Henry has the same details listed in 1877 and 1863, except that Leopardstown rd is not listed in '63 and Burton Hall is inthe Galloping Green section.
John's details in 1877 are 17 College green and Castlegar, Ahascragh. In 1863 he an addition Dublin address at 26 Sth Frederick St.
Shane
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Brendan, Eadaoin, Shane…Just an update, I have revisited each of the birth certificates for the children of James and Catherine Kavanagh as 6 of their children were born between1869-87 while living in Burton Hall. Up to yesterday I merely taught BH was just another townland in the Parish of Sandyford, but that notion was shelved following last evening’s correspondence from your good selves. James and Catherine were married in 1868; on the marriage cert James occupation is given as gardener. His occupation on each of the children’s birth certs is also given as gardener.
It gets better, I refer to my notes I had taken many years ago when talking to my now deceased cousin. Here I have noted that when James first arrived in Dublin (late 1840’s) and supposable went to an Aunt to live (McCann or Kavanagh). Notes further say his aunt was married to a man named McBride of Newtown Park, who was a dairy farmer and he sold milk to the poor in Dublin. James worked with McBride for some time. Sometime in the mid1850, he got a job with Guinness and Mahon the bankers where he worked on the farm end of the business. Following a brief illness he was employed fulltime as a gardener at Burton Hall.
It was only last night I became aware that Burton Hall was the residence of Henry Seymour Guinness the banker and politician.
After all that, the next question is…. How much of the original residence remains today?, I see it is now used as a horticulture and garden centre and the original garden boundary exists, but I can’t find any mention of the house.
Regards
John G.
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when I Google "Burton Hall" I get a house in Leopardstown, which is used for Mental Rehabilitation by the St John of God brothers.
there's a picture on their site
http://www.cluainmhuire.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63&Itemid=38
it's the third picture as they scroll to the left
eadaoin
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when I Google "Burton Hall" I get a house in Leopardstown, which is used for Mental Rehabilitation by the St John of God brothers.
there's a picture on their site
http://www.cluainmhuire.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63&Itemid=38
it's the third picture as they scroll to the left
eadaoin
that looks like the right location - if you google map that address 'Arena Road, Sandyford Industrial Estate, Sandyford' and compare it to the location of Burton Hall on the historic maps on the OSI site - Burton Hall (http://ims0.osiemaps.ie/website/publicviewer/main.aspx#V1,719904,726094,6) (select the - Historic BW Map) they look like they could be about the same location... although difficult to see any exact landmarks that still exist...
Shane
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Kavanagh and Mullen(s) found in the 1901 Dublin census index of the North Strand, Clonliffe Road and Summerhill district.
Bridget Kavanagh, 25 Richmond Place North
Christina Kavanagh, 1 Charleville Mall
Cornelious Kavanagh, 4 Empress Place
Dora Kavanagh, 6 Kings Avenue
Frances Kavanagh, 7 Grahams Cotteges
James Kavanagh, 16 Buckingham Street Upper
James Kavanagh, 41 North Williams Street
John Kavanagh, 2 Buckingham Street Upper
John Kavanagh, 9 Charlemont Parade
Kate Kavanagh, 60 Ballybough Road
Kate Kavanagh, 228 Clonliffe Road
Lizzie Kavanagh, 69 Summerhill
Martin Kavanagh, 10 Sackville Avenue
Michael Kavanagh, 24 Summerhill Parade
michael Kavanagh, 12 Charleville Avenue
Michael Kavanagh, 10 Mountjoy Parade
Patrick Kavanagh, 23 North Williams Street
Patrick Kavanagh, 87 Ballybough Road
Patrick Kavanagh, 41 North Williams Street
Thomas Kavanagh, 5 Dunne Street
Thomas Kavanagh, 30 Clarence Street North
Thomas Kavanagh, 29 St James Avenue
John Mullen, 13 O'Sullivan Avenue
John Mullen, 14 Sackville Avenue
Mary Mullen, 9 Jones Road
Patrick Mullen, 11 Summerhill
Thomas Mullen, 2 Newcome Avenue
Patrick Mullens, 2 Ballybough Cottages
Mary Mullins, 55 Bayview Avenue
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Gorman..... Many thanks you for the 1901 Index, once again it appears that Thomas and Ellen(Mullen)Kavanagh may have relocated to another part of the city by 1901. As I do not have DOB’s for either, I would expect to find a Thomas and Ellen at same residence aged late 60s to mid 70s that’s providing both were still alive.
Ages of two sons in 1901 +/-1 year;
Patrick 27
Christopher 23
James and Catherine’s Family by this time were living in Wexford in 1901
Eadaoin & Shane.... Thank you for the previous links, these are proving very helpful in understanding everything with respect to Burton Hall.
Kindest
John G.
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I have just received the marriage certificate for Thomas Kavanagh and Ellen Mullen (Jun 1871) and once again is proving quite interesting.
Ellen Mullen is the daughter of Christopher Mullen whose occupation is given as Carpenter. Ellen was previously married to a ????? Harold who is deceased. Ellen’s address is Jamestown and occupation is farmeress.
Thomas at this time is working with his brother James (my GGfather) on the Guinness Estate at Burton Hall.
Just wondering if any Harold’s or Mullen’s appear around the Jamestown area on any Thoms Directories?
Kind Regards
John G.
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look for possible marriage 1868 with John Harrold ...
(hope you didn't want to unearth this for yourself!)
Jamestown House lies between Kilternan and Stepaside
eadaoin
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Thanks Eadaoin,
I found this record on family search;
Name: John Harrold
Registration district: Rathdown
Record type: MARRIAGES
Registration date - quarter and year: 1868
Estimated birth year:
Age:
Mother's surnames:
Volume: 2
Page: 1015.
Was further hoping i would locate this on http://www.irishgenealogy.ie but no luck there >:(
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no sign of any Harolds or Mullens in the area around Jamestown house in 1877
and James Burke is the occupant of Jamestown
1863 has John H. O'Rorke esq. at Jamestown
and a William Harold esq. at Ballycorus, which is where the Catygallagher[?sp] lead mines were
I found the location on some of the maps I've scanned - see below for Jamestown House in 1837 and both Burton Hall and Jamestown house in 1885.
Shane
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Many Thanks, Shane for the Maps; it complements my family story nicely.
Wondering if anyone has access to the “Newspaper Archives” for Dublin. I am looking for an Obituary for Ita Kavanagh who is interred Bohernabreena Cemetery, Tallagh. Ita died on Jan 29th 2003.
Regards
John
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Hi John,
I'm New to this forum and have stumbled on your post here. I'm aware it's a long time posted.
Patrick Kavanagh was my Great Grandfather he lived at 30 North Great Clarence Street and his father was Richard Thomas Kavanagh from Wexford, his Mother was Ellen Mullen, his brother was Christopher.
He married and moved to 2 Buckingham Place and reared his family there, my grandmother being one of them, they then moved on to Dunne Street after he passed in 1927.
I have details on their weddings and deaths etc...
Feel free to private message me.
Regards.
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
To be able to use the PM (Personal Message) system you need to make at least one more post (just saying Hi etc). Then jytefas, when he/she reads your message, can send you a personal message.
Have a look at https://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Is this your Gt Grandfather in 1901 census?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mountjoy/Clarence_St__North/1322986/
……and his marriage in 1904?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10216/5718553.pdf
KG
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Patrick with his wife Ellen and four children in 1911 census, living at Quinn's Cottages, Mountjoy.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/Quinn_s_Cottages/21831/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000044080/
KG
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Hello and thank you for the welcome I appreciate it.
Yes that's my Great Grandfather Patrick Kavanagh and his family.
His daughter Karhleen was my Grandmother she wasn't born until 1917.
I have their marriage certs and death certs all printed along with his wife's too.
Thanks for the links anyway.
I've also posted last night my 1st post it was awaiting approval from a moderator.
Thank you again.
Regards