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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: Marengo on Sunday 17 January 10 02:34 GMT (UK)

Title: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Sunday 17 January 10 02:34 GMT (UK)
I would greatly appreciate any insight from anyone regarding the family and/or birth details of Richard George Nash born Bristol 1852.
Richard, an artist painter by profession, was a ggrandfather of mine - who left the UK around 1870 and emigrated to New Zealand, where he lived until his death in 1937.
He was probably in the UK for only the 1861 Census -as (approx) a 10 yr old.
If any kind person could look this up for me and/or give me a clue as to parents and/or siblings names, I would be most grateful.
(I hope I'm in the correct county - I believe that Bristol is an entity to itself.)
Thanks in anticipation.
Ed Eyre
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George Nash (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: danuslave on Sunday 17 January 10 03:05 GMT (UK)
Quote

Richard George Nash born Bristol 1852.


Hi Ed

Where did you get this information?  I can't find a Richard George Nash in birth registration or census that fits.  Is it possible that some or all of his name was changed?

Linda
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George Nash (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Sunday 17 January 10 03:16 GMT (UK)
Hi Linda
The info that I have given re full name, birth year and birthplace comes from a number of varied (but, admittedly family furnished) sources.
He was known here, in NZ, as 'Richard Nash'. If there is any error, it is most likely with the given birthdate - it could possibly be a year either side of 1852 but I am reasonably confident that it too is correct.
Although the birthdate is relatively distant, I am not 'generation-wise' very far removed.
 I believe the information I give is correct, but unfortunately that which is shown is the full extent of the hard facts I have.
(Other names - that might offer some clue - appearing with Richard's children are Frederick, Charles, Samuel Corea, and James).
I appreciate your interest and effort.
Thanks
Ed
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George Nash (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Sunday 17 January 10 06:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Ed

PAPERS PAST
Southland Times , Issue 3661, 17 March 1880, Page 3
"...In the matter of the Bankruptcy of Richard George NASH, of Invercargil, Sign-Painter, a debtor"

then following in the same article:
"....J E HANNAH of Invercargil, a Certified accountant...appointed Trustee in the estate of Richard George NASH of Invercargil  in the Colony of New Zealand, sign-painter......"

Does this imply the Bankrupt had died (I was thinking, a father of the same name....but I can't see a death in NZ BDM online) or is the word 'estate' in this case to do with the bankrupt's assets and is not about his death ???

I see the Richard George NASH is buried in Invercargill in 1937 age 85 yrs.
Have you contacted the Funeral director mentioned there (who appears to be still in business) to see what information is held on their file for him? It may mention parents names for example. Usually a phone call with the name &  date of death or burial will do.

http://www.frasersfunerals.co.nz/

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Sunday 17 January 10 07:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Ambly
I am aware of the bankruptcy you mention. (There is masses of info pertaining to Richard Nash in Papers Past "Southland Times' - most of it better news than this!)
(Painters have always had a hard time of it. Witness Van Gogh, Rembrandt, ad infinitum. Some have to paint signs. Some, posters. Some just burglarise).
This is my ggf, the man I'm trying to locate the birth details for in Bristol.
The newspaper legal notice does imply an estate, and by extension, a death,  but the notice is his and he didn't die until 1937. I didn't miss him by much!
It is recorded on NZ BMD ... ref 1937/24175
I have relatives of his (and mine) presently living in Invercargill but no-one as yet can provide parents' names - hence my queries in his birthplace, Bristol.
Thanks for your help.
Ed
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 17 January 10 09:36 GMT (UK)
Hi Marengo,
you mention he was known as George Nash only but all the records I can find on him he is Richard George Nash.

Marriage;
Richard George NASH
Emma CULL
1875/1101

These children all have their Father recorded as Richard George Nash on their birth regos plus Mother Emma.
Annie Jane 1878
Caleb John 1880
Emma 1881
Charles 1885#
Samuel Corea 1886#
James 1888#
(# ones you have mentioned)

I havent found Fredericks reg. with Mother Emma but there is one with Father George, Mother Mary in 1884.


Have you actually purchased the Death and Marriage Certs??
One or both of these should provide his parents names and POB .

Trish :)
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Sunday 17 January 10 20:58 GMT (UK)
Hi Trish
Thanks for your work.
I am already very conversant with all the info you include.
There are actually eleven children recorded as descendants, but as you have observed, the eldest, Frederick Nash is not to be found on NZ BMD.
I did not say that the man I seek was known (only) as 'George Nash' -.
I said (in response to someone asking if I maybe had his name wrong) that he was known in New Zealand as Richard Nash.
I am aware that, on almost all official documents he is named in full  as 'Richard George Nash'.
I haven't as yet sighted a copy of his Death and Marriage Certs. (I will ) but I was also rather hoping that some appraisal of records in Bristol, UK would quickly identify him with parents.

Thanks
Ed (Grandson of Sarah Nash, bn 1890 / 18578 )
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: memyself on Sunday 17 January 10 22:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Ed

Bristol is spread over the counties of Somerset and Gloucestershire.

On Free Bmd there is a Richard NAISH registered in Bristol, Glos in March quarter 1852.
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: krisesjoint on Sunday 17 January 10 22:44 GMT (UK)
Sorry to say Richard NAISH is not the correct person. I thought he may have been a possibility yesterday, but on following him I found the name is consistently NAISH and he remains in Bristol until at least 1901.

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Sunday 17 January 10 23:01 GMT (UK)
Oh, durn !
Thankyou anyway , Kris.
They were quite a literate family, so (transcription errors aside) I believe that they would have had intended spellings correct.
Family oral tradition adamantly asserts he was born in Bristol, lived for a 'few years' in South Africa, returned to 'England' and came to New Zealand in 1872 (when he would have been still just 20 years of age).
That considered, maybe he was born a little earlier than indicated.

So, folks, I am still open to further suggestions.

Thanks
Ed. Eyre
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: krisesjoint on Sunday 17 January 10 23:38 GMT (UK)
Hi Ed,

Sorry but I think your best bet will be the NZ certs to start with in the hope of parent details. We are just not finding a likely candidate in either a birth entry, or appearing in the census. I see a submitted IGI entry lists him as aged 21 at marriage so that would mean born more like 1854 - alas hasn't helped me.  :'(

The cert may clarify - Information on the marriage cert he would have provided himself.

Cheers Kris
Title: New Info: Re Richard George Nash, born Bristol, 1854
Post by: Marengo on Monday 18 January 10 06:48 GMT (UK)
I have just discovered that, contrary to my previous posting -
Richard George NASH, whom I seek background information for may have been born 1854 (not 1852). I still believe Bristol is the birthplace.
Important, extra info is that his parents were James NASH and June NASH (nee Duff), I believe, of Bristol or nearby.
Richard should appear on the 1861 England Census, but may have departed for NZ before the 1871 poll. His parents were probably still alive at both of these dates.
Any extra background info that can be uncovered on him and/or his family will be gratefully accepted.
Knowing how good you guys are,
Thanks, in anticipation -

Ed Eyre (NZ) (GGrandson)
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 18 January 10 11:05 GMT (UK)
Hi Ed,
Sorry, my mistake, as I accidentally typed George instead of Richard!

I searched several passenger list sites looking for him. This was to make up for my booboo.
There is a record of a Richard Nash , age 20, arriving in Auckland 3 September 1873 on the BERAR which left from London.
The full list is;
JAMES Nash, 45
RICHARD Nash, 20
CHARLES Nash, 14
ALBERT Nash, 10

Although arriving in Auckland many immigrants took passage on ships down the Coast and could have ended up anywhere in NZ.
The names look good to me from what you have quoted earlier as Richard sons names.
The info is from the Ackland City Libraries Digital Library;
http://0-www.aucklandcity.govt.nz.www.elgar.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/passengers/passenger.html

I do not have access to Census info at present but you or someone else may be able to find the Family in 1861/1871.

I think the Marriage Cert is a necessity as it should contain the info you require. I have several from the same era and they were invaluable for tracing my NZ end back to their English origins.

Cheers,
Trish :)
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 18 January 10 11:15 GMT (UK)
This is interesting.
From the IGI, extracted record;
Marriage;
James Frank NASH, Father James Nash
Mary Ann BARNES
12 October 1851, Bistol (sic), Gloucester, England

May be worth keeping in mind until you purchase the Marriage Cert of Richard.

Trish :)

Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Monday 18 January 10 18:09 GMT (UK)
Thanks Trish. Great stuff!

(I wasn't chipping you regarding the typo - and I assumed it was only that -
but I thought I had better run the 'correction' in case someone else accepted  it as a critical precondition.
I will order the Certs. 
I am now much more confident, (and surprised, actually) knowing that the 'family' (sans mother) were in NZ around the time of Richard's marriage (in Gisborne, March 1875).
I have been a little reluctant to order the certs because of previous disappointing results - especially with the older ones, pre 1865 or so.
I have several times paid the fee and then found, on sighting, that they contained nothing more than that which I already knew.
I really do appreciate your assistance.
Thanks again

Ed Eyre Wanganui, NZ)
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Monday 18 January 10 19:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Ed and Trish

That is a great find, the passenger lists......and the addition of parents names for Richard

Just to let you know, I've been digging in the 1861/1871 Census any/all which way I can think of and coming up with ........nothing!   Very frustrating. Will have another go at it today.

Cheers  :)
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Monday 18 January 10 20:52 GMT (UK)
A lead!

NZ BMD:  An Albert Joseph Stewart NASH died in NZ 1933 age 70.
So born abt 1863 (the right year to match the las on the BERAR in 1873)
Can't see a corresponding birth in NZ

NZBMD:
1889 MARRIAGE: Albert Joseph Stuart NASH and Elizabeth HALLASAY

http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/NEW-ZEALAND/1999-03/0922239267
Charles Lionel NASH married Emily HARRIS 27 Jan 1883 Makaraka, Turanga,
Gisborne NZ. Wits were Albert Joseph Stuart NASH and Rhoda NASH.
Presume the HARRIS family lived Makaraka; Timothy HARRIS was a contractor.
Both Charles NASH and Timothy HARRIS families were in NSW by 1885-6.

NSW Australia BMD:
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm
DEATH: Charles L NASH - 1903 - District NEWTOWN - Parents: James and Jane.


Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Monday 18 January 10 21:01 GMT (UK)
http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/NEW-ZEALAND/1999-03/0922239277
A descendant of Charles Lionel NASH writes (10 years ago, mind):

James and Jane (nee DUFFY) NASH.

Son Charles Lionel NASH says on all certs that he was born Cape of Good Hope c1860.
Searches of South Africa records and St Caths at sea unsuccessful.
It is thought he may have been born on the voyage to NZ.
Charles Lionel NASH married Emily HARRIS 27 Jan 1883 Makaraka, Turanga,
Gisborne NZ. One witness was Albert Joseph Stuart NASH, another Rhoda NASH.
Request help to try and find ARRIVAL of James, Jane and Charles Lionel NASH
to NZ, perhaps c1860. Birth of Albert Joseph Stuart NASH may help, or
perhaps he arrived also as a child; he may have been married to Rhoda ???

The whole family, ie James NASH, Charles Lionel NASH, Albert Joseph Stuart
NASH (who lived Gisborne) were painters (don't know whether this means
artists or house painters).

Family of Charles Lionel and Emily NASH in NSW by 1886, apparently with chn
Amelia J (bc1883) and Albert (bc1885). However no definite sign of any
other NASH family member in Oz. What happened to James and Jane NASH,
Albert Joseph Stuart NASH and any other family members?


Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Monday 18 January 10 21:24 GMT (UK)
http://www.gdc.govt.nz/cemetery-record-search/
Makaraka Cemetery Gisborne
BURIAL 8 May 1882: James NASH age 58 (born abt 1824) - MKOLD - Plot 36
BURIAL 14 Jan 1882 : Albert Stuart NASH age 2 (born abt 1880) - MKOLD - Plot 36

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Monday 18 January 10 22:24 GMT (UK)
NZ  DEATH 1882 : Albert Stuart NASH  - parents: William James & Rhoda
Most likely the one in Makaraka Cemetery age 2 same plot as James NASH who died same year.

Papers Past - Gisborne bankruptcy - Dec 1882
William James NASH, a Painter

NASH births NZ with parents: William James & Rhoda
1875 - Florence Emma
1880 - Albert Stuart
1882 - Arthur Wadkins
1884 - Ethel Blanche
1887 - Richard Lionel
1889 - Helen Beatrice

NZ DEATHS
1912 - William James NASH - age 64 (born abt 1848)
1899 - Rhoda NASH age 50 (born abt 1849)
1875 - Rhoda NASH age 2 (b abt 1873) - can't find a birth reg for her?

This looks like William James NASH is another sibling of 'our' Richard George NASH?

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Monday 18 January 10 22:41 GMT (UK)
FreeBMD:
MARRIAGE: William James NASH and Rhoda WADKINS
Edmonton - Dec Qtr 1870

BIRTH: Rhoda NASH
Edmonton - Mar Qtr 1874

Edmonton spans the boundaries of the counties of Essex, Hertfordshire and Middlesex

To find them in the 1871 Census......

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Monday 18 January 10 22:55 GMT (UK)
I think this is them - and all considered, I'm not entirely surprised at his place of birth

1871: Village of Whetstone, Finchley, Middlesex
RG10 /  Piece: 1334 /  Folio: 45 /  Page: 31
Head: John E. ELLIS 23, Watchmaker, b Rochester, Kent
Wife: Emily M. G. ELLIS 27, b India British Subject
Dau: Ella E. ELLIS 4, Scholar, b Marylebone Mdx
Son; William E. ELLIS 2, b Spitalfields Mdx
Dau: Annie ELLIS 8 mths, b Whetstone Mdx
Mother: Maria E. ELLIS 62, widow, b mapperton Dorset
Lodger:  James NASH 23, married, Painter & Grainer, b Ireland
Lodger's Wife: Rhoda NASH 21, married, b Southgate, Middlesex

Earlier Census 1861 show a Rhoda WADKINS b abt 1848 Southgate., living in Edmondton, Mdx with her parents.

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Monday 18 January 10 23:54 GMT (UK)
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=DSC18740801.2.3.1&e=-------10--1----2-all
Married Couple: W. J. and Rhoda NASH and two children, arrived in NZ on Thursday 23 July 1874 on the MILTRADES. The Ship had left Gravesend at 11pm on  May 2 with 470 immigrants.

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Tuesday 19 January 10 00:34 GMT (UK)
Ambly-
Just great! But I'm trying to get my head around all this.
Some names make crystal clear sense, others are a mystery.
I am struggling to see how the James Nash, married to the Rhoda relates to my guys. That James Nash appears to have been born abt 1848. Mine, James, the father of Richard etc, was born abt 1828. I'm not disputing that they may have been othrwise related though.
The South African connection makes perfect sense: Family scuttlebut has it (and repeated in his Invercargill obituary) that Richard Nash spent several years in SA, returned to England and then came to NZ in 1872. I couldn't conceptualise how he did all that and arrived in NZ at age 20 or or so. Maybe he went as a family (with Father James) to SA as a youth.
When it says 'painters', they were artists - all of them, for some strange reason. They also had the artists propensity for going bankrupt and repaid creditors through 'ordinary' decorating.
I've got more questions, if that's okay as soon as I digest what you've laid out before me.
Thanks very much
Ed Eyre
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Tuesday 19 January 10 00:56 GMT (UK)
Hi Ed

I think William James NASH, who married Rhoda - is another son of James Snr and Jane/June DUFF(Y). And followed his father  James Snr, and siblings Richard, Charles and Albert out to NZ

The information about Charles Lionel NASH kind of ties it all together.

Fire away when you have questions - happy to help if I can find anything more.

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Tuesday 19 January 10 01:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Ed

I think William James NASH, who married Rhoda - is another son of James Snr and Jane/June DUFF(Y). And followed his father  James Snr, and siblings Richard, Charles and Albert out to NZ

The information about Charles Lionel NASH kind of ties it all together.

Fire away when you have questions - happy to help if I can find anything more.

Cheers
AMBLY


It's great work Ambly.
I certainly couldn't have done this myself.
I'll print it off and digest it under a tree - and then I may get back to you if I need any help.
Once again, thanks so much.
Ed
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Tuesday 19 January 10 06:25 GMT (UK)
Okay - I'm back inside now. It was getting a little lonely out there underneath the family tree.
Thanks to everyone who contributed their findings, above.
 More progress with my quest to find 'backstory' on ggf Richard Nash has been made in the past 24 hours than I would've imagined possible. Yawning gaps have been filled.
However, there are still  a couple of  issues that I would like to solve. And I can't think of anyone, right now, better equipped to tell me how to do that than you guys.

1. I still haven't nailed a birthplace and date for my primary target, Richard George NASH. I've been led to believe, by several sources (but they might all be extensions of the same 'Chinese Whisper') that the equation was Bristol, UK, 1852.
However, I have since modified that date to a range, 1852 - 1854.
Similarly, now that  I find the elder brother William James NASH is recorded as being born in IRELAND, I may have to broaden the scope for Richard's birthplace too. (That's a long way from Bristol, isn't it?)
(In this respect, as an aside to Ambly - I'm still not entirely sure what to make of your observation, - 'and all considered, I'm not entirely surprised at his place of birth'.)
I tell you what - it surprised me! (It is quite a way from Bristol, isn't it?)

2. Now, the matter of James Nash (snr's) wife, and mother of Richard Nash, nee June/Jane Duff/Duffy (Now, that does sound Irish!)
It would appear that she never reached NZ at all. How can I best explore her fate? I imagine she died some time between 1863 and 1873. How can I check this out?
I am truly very grateful to you guys - and where it looks like I'm kidding above, well, I am.

I'd be pleased to again hear your thoughts.
Best wishes
Ed Eyre


PS. I have just found this. It might explain why William James Nash was born in Ireland. (But I haven't tried to check the station of the King's Light Infantry at that time.) It may help, though, perhaps?
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Tuesday 19 January 10 11:36 GMT (UK)
Just found a bio, birthdate, date & place of birth  AND  a photo of Albert  (Albert Joseph Stuart) ;D  ;D  ;D  , Richard's youngest brother

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc06Cycl-t1-body1-d2-d28-d25.html#t1-body1-d2-d28-d25-d3
NEW ZEALAND ELECTRONIC TEXT CENTRE
The Cyclopedia of New Zealand [Taranaki, Hawke's Bay & Wellington Provincial Districts
Nash, Albert, Painter, Paper-hanger. Sign-writer, and House Decorator, High Street, Dannovirke. Mr. Nash's business is the oldest painting and signvriting biwinses in Danne-virke. His premises comprise a shop with a store-room and work-rooms at the rear, and a large and varied stock of wall papers, paints, oils, glass, and picture framings is carried. Mr. Nash gives constant employment to a large staff of workmen, and his work is well known for its style and finish. He was born at East London, South Africa, on the 29th of December, 1862, was educated partly at Southgate, Middlesex, England, and came to New Zealand in 1874. He completed his education at Auckland, subsequently learned his trade with his brothers in  Gisborne, and then started in business on his own account in Hawke's Bay. After remaining for a few months in Napier, he removed to Waipawa, where he followed his trade for about five years, and in December, 1891, settled in Dannevirke.......He takes a keen interest in cricket, and is an amateur photographer.

(Recalling Southgate, was where Rhoda WADKINS was from and where she married Albert's elder brother William James in 1870)

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 19 January 10 11:46 GMT (UK)
Great finds AMBLY and ED ;D

This all looks very promising.

GRO Army Chaplains Birth Indices

NASH Albert Joseph S "Cape" 1860-67 #103

There is in the GRO Regimental Births Indices

NASH Charles L 1859 "Queenstown" 85th Reg 832 17
NASH Charles L 1859 "Queenstown" 85th Reg 832 24

NASH Richard G 1855 "Westbury" 85th Reg 832 14

NASH William J 1848 "Dublin" 85th Reg 832 14

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Tuesday 19 January 10 12:26 GMT (UK)
Wooo! Kris!!! Absolutely Brilliant  ;D  ;D  ;D

There he is - Richard !

Rootschat is the best family tree to be under in the world !

Where's Westbury, do you know - is that Ireland? I know Queenstown is....

And that was a great find too Ed. You might be able to get his Military Record from that.
The 85th Reg KLI was a Shropshire Regiment I think - nickname the Young Bucks
http://www.marywardbooks.com/books/The-85th-Kings-Light-Infantry-by-C-R-B-Barrett-editor/MW004519111.htm


Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 19 January 10 12:37 GMT (UK)
Hi AMBLY,

Yes RootsChat is certainly the best  ;D

Still trying to work it out - Dublin and Cape are obvious - Queenstown suspect that's the one in South Africa too, Westbury I don't know - certainly a few possibilities in the UK. Trying to work out where the 85th may have been but not a military researcher and I am getting very sleepy - If I am ready for my bed it must be very late there.

Would say the cert is a must.

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: trish1120 on Tuesday 19 January 10 12:46 GMT (UK)
Amazing  ;D

Al I can say is WOW :)
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: nainmaddie on Tuesday 19 January 10 12:52 GMT (UK)
Hi All
Just escaping the housework !!

There is a Westbury in Wiltshire, not all that far from Bristol area.  I should think that there would have been an Army base not far from that area.  I change trains there from the South West to go to the South coast.

This may not help, but is a possibility

Nainmaddie
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Tuesday 19 January 10 13:23 GMT (UK)
Way late  8)  I just looked at the clock, gulp!  ;D - I'm starting to fade  but  It's been a hot humid day here (hence Ed sitting out under a tree earlier?) and it still is muggy up here (or down here if you're over there!) in Auckland, so I can't sleep anyway!

Genuki listings for Wiltshire, Glouc, and Shropshire  - I'm too tired to read  - is it the same place as Wilts, boundary changes, or partitioned between 2 counties etc?  -  so here's links!
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WIL/Westbury/index.htm
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/GLS/WestburyonSevern/index.html
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SAL/Westbury/index.html

Shropshire is the home of the 85th....

Well Ed,  once you get over the developments and Kris' wonderful find - to answer your question earlier :

It does depend on other 'clues' and hunches but  Ireland is often  my first pick as a  culprit when I can't find a whole family in the the England/Scotland/Wales Census or BMD's  ;D Especially if they're missing from certain places in England, Bristol being one) and if there every reason to suspect they DIDN't go the US/Canada or the Antipodes in the time frame being searched.  Add in the names and Ireland always starts to look possible .  Though I really didn't think their NASH names were particulary Irish flavoured, once the SA connection came in via Charles Lionel , thoughts do turn to Army and Ireland.

So I'm  equally not surprised to see James snr was soldier  ;D     By the age/time  he came to NZ, he'd probably completed his 21 years of service.  I have a gf simlar time period, in the Army at 18, served 21 years, out and a Dock Labourer by the time he was 40.

BTW, Arthur 's burial is in the Tararua Cemeteries database:
http://www.tararuadc.govt.nz/asp/cemeteries_search.asp?menu=ce

And W J and Rhoda are in Te Henui Cemetery  in the New Plymouth Database:
http://www.newplymouthnz.com/AtoZOfCouncilServices/CemeteriesAndCrematorium/CemeterySearch.htm

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Tuesday 19 January 10 13:42 GMT (UK)
Well, I'm off to bed - I'll leave you guys to fish them out of the 1871 Census in UK  ;D  ;D
My gut feeling is they should be there somewhere ???

RG10 /  Piece: 1318 /  Folio: 63 /  Page: 28
Lists two boys C NASH age 12 and F NASH age 10, pob Not Known - in what looks like a school in Middlesex?
I wonder - could this be Charles (age is spot on) and Albert (who really still be 9 in 1861 Census) - maybe the F was a misread of an A??


Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Tuesday 19 January 10 20:18 GMT (UK)
BELLISSIMO!!
Wow! What a menu to wake up to!
I am absolutely in awe of you ladies. (I think it's all ladies..)
I just don't know how you distil these things out of the ether.
Initially, when posting the Death Notice, I felt a little hesitant - was I precocious in expecting more than I'd already been given? I didn't want to be the agent of your insomnia. But, what you have uncovered is amazingly impressive (to me, anyway).
I hope that other RootsChatters looking in on this string realise and appreciate, as I do myself, the wonderfully skilful thing that you do.
I'll just leave it at that for the moment - I need to gather my breath.

Again, on behalf of the 'peripatetic  Nash's', thanks to you all -

Ed Eyre
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 19 January 10 21:40 GMT (UK)
Morning Ed,

With your oral history of Bristol I thought instantly thought Westbury on Trym but was not able to put the 85th there in 1855. (But as I said I am not experienced in Military)

Sounds like it is hot over there. Hopefully AMBLY is getting a bit of a lie in.

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Tuesday 19 January 10 22:06 GMT (UK)
Kris

I really don't want to interrupt the train of collective thought with levity - but don't worry about us and the 'heat'.
Everything's relative - if the tapwater flows liquid from the faucet, we refer to the weather as 'hot'.
It's never Nullarbor-hot and whenever we plant a banana tree, we're never entirely confident of fruition.

Ed
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Tuesday 19 January 10 22:32 GMT (UK)
Good Morning everyone

Lie in? No chance. Up and at em  ;D  ;D

Without preamble.....

1851: Fulwood Barracks, Lancashire
HO107 /  Piece: 2268 / Folio: 623 / Page: 46
Soldier: James NASH 27, Private Soldier, b Enfield Mdx
Wife: Jane NASH, 26, b Ireland
Dau: Ann NASH 5, b Ireland
Son: James NASH 3, b Ireland
Son: John NASH 1, b Ireland

The Barracks is a 52 pages long of Census. The NASH's are on page 46

On Page 8  there is:
Lt Col. Brook TAYLOR, Lt Col of the ......85 Light Infantry.
Robert L DAY, Cap. of the -----85 Light Infantry
The paymaster, the Adjutant, the Surgeon of the ....85 Light Infantry
And so on!!

As Albert might have said, Howzat  ;D

Looks like them doesn't it! Another 2 children, too?

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Tuesday 19 January 10 23:00 GMT (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07w9/
An Alphabetical List of the Officers of the Eighty-Fifth, Bucks Volunteers ... By Henry Stooks Smith
Pg 1813
Sep 1847 - Marched to Dublin. Occupied the Royal Barracks.
Jul 1848 - To Tipperary to quell a rebellion - women & children left in Dublin
1850 - to Lancashire
1851 - to Yorkshire

The whole book is not digitised.
Part of what is, details some of the officers. It doesn't go as far as the "N" names - but if you could get your hands on it, you might be lucky to see James listed, depends on his rating and how it may have gone up or down over his term.

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Tuesday 19 January 10 23:06 GMT (UK)
Right now I'm like a spectator at Centre Court, Wimbledon.
And I'm just savouring the match.
Right now, it's Advantage Ambly -
Who serves next?

*I found a second marriage of James Nash (snr) (at age 47) to a Mary Ann Lavender (age 16, an immigrant from London - ship 'Forfarshire', July 1875)
on 11 Nov 1885 (NZ BMD). She died, age 32 . (NZ BMD 1891/744.)
I mention this in respect of first wife (and Mother of the Nash gang) Jane (Duff/y) and my query as to her fate.


Ed
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 19 January 10 23:12 GMT (UK)
Fab AMBLEY,  ;D  ;D

Looks Great!

I haven't had a chance this morning yet.

Annie NASH 1846 Buttevant 85th Reg 832 14 (looks like that is Cork)

I wondered about her last night but was too tired to play on. All the others from the 85th I noticed were too late. Back to it.

Cheers Kris  :)

Yes I saw that book last night AMBLY - alas didn't help with Westbury
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Tuesday 19 January 10 23:23 GMT (UK)
I think you just served,  Ed ! And that is a very young wife! Same age roughly as his son Charles...
Should'n't talk, one of my merchant Navy ship-jumpers was well in his 30's when he married a 16 year old shipwreck survivor in 1867 ;D

So, perhaps Mary Ann added  to the list of James' children?

Then, back to Kris  ;D
Fit like a glove, wonderful!

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Tuesday 19 January 10 23:32 GMT (UK)
This is promising - and might fit for sure later on:

IGI:
James NASH chr 3 Oct 1824, Saint Andrew, Enfield, London
Parents: George NASH and Anne.

1841: Charn Brook - Enfield, Edmonton, Middlesex
HO107 /  Piece 653 / Book: 4 / Folio: 11 /  Page: 14
George NASH 40, Ag Lab - Y
Ann NASH 39 - Y
George NASH 20, Ag Lab - Y
James NASH 17, Ag Lab - Y
John NASH 11, Ag Lab - Y
Mary NASH 13 - Y
Eliza NASH 8 - Y
Caroline NASH 4 - Y
Emma NASH 1 - Y

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Tuesday 19 January 10 23:45 GMT (UK)
You know - there's an age you get to when almost nothing shocks or surprises.
I might've held up my hands at the Banns, if I'd been there. (I'm just glad he found Jane Duff first - genetically speaking).
Let's not get distracted by the young wife - but I do think 'Mary Ann Lavender' has a lovely onomatopoeiac lilt.
(So you guys let me chase Mary Ann - after all she's almost closer to my age than my gggrandfather's, and it'll keep you  free for the really technical stuff).

Ed
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Wednesday 20 January 10 02:06 GMT (UK)
Hi Ed

Keep us posted on the chase for Mary Ann LAVENDER ;D (We're a curious bunch! Indeed a lovely name  ;D

Do you have access to the UK Census?
I'm pretty sure George and Ann NASH of the 1841 above, are James' parents. From the 1851 Census up to 1881, they're in Southgate, Enfield, Edmonton - it all adds up.  Southgate being where Albert said he was educated for a bit...I'll post up the details if you like?

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Wednesday 20 January 10 03:38 GMT (UK)
Dear Ambly-

 Please do.
No, I don't have easy, immediate access to the UK census. I have been visiting the local library when necessary.
Anything I say is probably going to identify me as a rank amateur -
and I really don't want to go off along every sprig of the tree.
(viz beating around Lavender bushes).
(I did check BMD for James Nash/Lavender offspring - phew, none, phew).
I am really thrilled with what has been uncovered - more than I ever dreamed.
I'm just really very grateful for being steered along the rocky road of lineage by you folks. I just couldn't do this myself - I don't know all the places to look.
I must also tell you too - you would be surprised to know the number of my family (alerted to it by myself) that have viewed and are following the progress of this thread. (Which is why, I'm pretty much on my best behaviour).
From all of us, to all of you, we doff our hats and thank you all, once again.

Edric Eyre
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Wednesday 20 January 10 07:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Ed and extended family  :)

1851: "Chase" - Village of Southgate, Enfield, Edmonton, Middlesex
HO107 /  Piece: 1703 /  Folio: 118 /  Page: 28
Head: George NASH 50, Ag Lab, b Enfield
Wife: Ann NASH 49, b Stanstead, Essex
Son: Will'm NASH 27, unm, Pensioner, b Enfield
Dau: Eliza NASH 18, unm, b Enfield
Dau: Emma NASH 11, Scholar, b Enfield
               Southgate - where Albert, Richards brother, said he was at School for a time.

1861: Mayfield Lodge - Hamlet of Southgate, Enfield, Edmonton, Middlesex
RG9 /  Piece: 797 /  Folio: 106 /  Page: 5
Head: George NASH 61, Gardener, b Enfield, Mdx
Wife: Ann NASH 60, Lodge Keeper, b Stanstead, Essex
Dau: Emma NASH 20, unm, Seamstress, b Enfield Mdx
          Mayfield House is enumerated just before them, and is a "Ladies School", either very exclusive or the young ladies are off for their hols - only 1 pupil is listed among 9 staff.

1871: Chase Side - Southgate, Edmonton, Middlesex
RG10 /  Piece: 1342/  Folio: 27 /  Page: 20
Head: George NASH 69, Working in a Nursery, b Enfield Mdx
Wife: Ann NASH 68, b Stanstead, Essex

1881: Chase Road, Southgate, Enfield, Edmonton, Middlesex
RG11 /  Piece: 1390 /  Folio: 85 /  Page: 28
Head: George NASH 80, Labourer, b Enfield Essex
Wife: Ann NASH 80, Chairwoman (sic), b Stanstid (sic) Essex

Bad luck they never seem to have any of the family - married children, grandchildren -  with them around census time!


Going back to that 1871 which I mentioned last night - these two boys listed together:
1871: RG10 /  Piece: 1318 /  Folio: 63 /  Page: 28
"Thorn House" St Mary Rd - Ealing, Brentford, Middlesex
Pupil: C NASH 12, b N,K
Pupil: F NASH 10, b N.K

Head of the House is Wm H RAY age 36, Schoolmaster. All the students were male. I would guess all from, if not prominent or filthy rich,  then fairly well heeled families - it would only take a look into the background of a few to establish that probability.  And naughty Mr RAY or his 'proxy'  - quite a number of the boys have their pob is listed as N.K. (not Known). Methinks someone didn't want to be bothered finding out from the  school records or from the boys,  rather than  "didnt know"!

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22588
Thorn House academy was founded in 1836 by William Henry Ray in the former master's house of Great Ealing school... There were 36 boarders, aged 6 to 15, in 1851 and 77, aged 8 to 19, in 1871.....Under the Revd. Richard Mulcaster, Ray's successor from 1874, Thorn House was called a collegiate and commercial school.  ......In 1893 the original premises were occupied by St. Mary's college, which emphasized science ... and closed in 1895, the building becoming a Liberal club until its demolition in 1902"

I do think this is a good chance of being our NASH brothers, Charles L & Alberts J S.


Cheers
AMBLY


Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Wednesday 20 January 10 07:10 GMT (UK)
Couldn't resist one little flowery google......

Mary LAVENDER - was listed as a Single Woman on the "Forfarshire"  in 8 Jul 1875. 
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nzbound/forfarshire.htm
(No other Lavenders evident - so young to be going to the other end of the world)  And 4 months later she married James NASH.  One wonders if she came out with the nuptials already in mind...?

It appears it was a double wedding - looks  as if she and James were witness to another couple's  marriage first.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ANZ-GEN-MAT/2006-06/1150341846
A Mary LAVENDER and a J NASH were witness' to a marriage which took place 11 Nov 1875 in Devonport, Auckland (North Shore).
The bride was a 25 yr old named Sarah Ann MIFFIN. The  groom a 38 yr old widower named George ELEMENT, a Painter & Decorator.

Again this fits. Since Albert had mentioned, he finished his education in Auckland.
Interesting, Mr ELEMENT's occupation - could this have been where it all started, through contact with him? Harnesssing natural artistic talents to a trade?

Also Devonport was (still is)  the base of the Military Barracks, now Naval base.   I wonder if James came out here to NZ  as a Settler Pensioner, still attached to the regiment?

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Wednesday 20 January 10 09:45 GMT (UK)
The great thing about this whole exercise is that it teaches you never to take anything for granted.
Before I read your latest findings, (re James snr and Mary Lavender's marriage) I assumed that he was well ensconced in Gisborne by Sept 1875, having moved there directly from Auckland, after arriving in the Berar, in Sept 1873.
I had formed that idea right from the outset and it was later compounded when I saw the Auckland newspaper notice (below) - that he had somehow 'bought' a housekeeper/servant/bride, after having discovered their availablity, somehow, and had her then travel to Gisborne.
This would now appear to be an obvious misconception  - evidenced by the Auckland nuptials and the probability that son, Albert attended some school there.
 In other words, he arrived in Gisborne (where he spent the remainder of his life) complete with his three children and new wife, (looking for all the world like a fourth child), sometime after Sept 1875.
If the 'ad' below (which I reproduce mainly for historical interest) is viewed with 21st century eyes, it does seem almost tantamount to 'slave-trading'. Perhaps I  exaggerate a little, but you really do wonder how equitable a 'love-match' it was between a sixteen year old 'girl', barely recovered from mal de mer and a 47 year old Sergeant Major, who knew what an awfully long long way it was, back to Tipperary
However, wiser ones than me have said that we should not judge long past events in the light of latter day morals - so I will say no more.
Except - lucky for some!
The goodies just keep on coming. And I keep on being bowled over.
Cheers
Ed
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Wednesday 20 January 10 12:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Ed

You know how it is. when you look and look for something: car keys, glasses and no,  not there. Then you look again where you already looked before and there they are, and you swear: some gremlin is playing tricks...well, look what I found umpteenth time round....a hop skip and a jump from George & Ann...

1871: High Street - Southgate, Enfield, Edmonton, Middlesex
RG10/ Piece: 1342/ Folio: 76/ Page: 15
Head: James NASH 47, M, Drill Instructor , b Enfield Middlesex
Son: Richard NASH 17, Painter, b Bristol, Gloucestershire
Son: Charles NASH 11, Scholar, b South Africa
Son: Albert NASH 8, Scholar, b South Africa
Servant: Charlotte PICKETT 41, unm, Servant, b Ponders End, Mdx

A***c** try  thought the name looked like "WASH"  ;)  ;)

Cheers
AMBLY (who sounds calm, but is dancing round the computer)

PS: So, cancel those two boys in Thorn House in Middlesex 1871,  not yours after all
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: AMBLY on Wednesday 20 January 10 12:37 GMT (UK)
Now, what's interesting is: James in 1871  is listed as M for married:
  *Wife Jane elsewhere in 1871
  * Jane has very recentley died and he hasn't come to terms with "Widower"
  * Jane has been deceased for some time, but he still considered himself "married" when filling in the Census form.
   * Error by Enumerator

Searched FreeBMD between 1862 and 1871 for deaths in Edmonton of a Jane NASH. Only 1 result.

DEATH: 1866 - Jane NASH age 41 - Edmonton - 3a, page 113

Perfect match, born abt 1825.

If one analyses Albert's biography (which was contemporary - he was alive when it  was written and obviously the direct source of the information on his life). He said he was born in South Africa, and went to school for a bit in Southgate, came to NZ and completed his education in Auckland.

He made no mention at all of having had any education in South Africa.  So I deduce from that, he was probably in England by the time he started school : ie around 1866/1867/1868. Which makes the 1866 death all the more likely to be the right Jane.

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 20 January 10 12:55 GMT (UK)
What an amazing saga this has been.
And you are AMAZING Ambly.

Ed will be thrilled ;D
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Wednesday 20 January 10 23:02 GMT (UK)
I've just had a little 'fantail' - a small NZ native bird, (the Maori call 'piwakawaka') fly into the house here. This is not a rare event - these small creatures show a great deal more trust in humans than humans as a whole deserve - and often out in the bush (forest), they will virtually perch on your shoulder, if you sit still enough.
The crux of this is to tell you that Maori traditional belief holds that their intrusion into a dwelling is the harbinger of a death in the family, or at least bad luck. Well, I am rather hoping that it isn't my time to be added to the long list of past Nash's.
And, if it only brings bad luck, I think it got the wrong flamin' house!

Wow! And double Wow!
To say I'm thrilled would be a total understatement. I am just in awe of you guys. And it is indeed a pity that the countless thousands of people who visit this site would only see this masterpiece by chance. (They'd have to serendiptously select 'England', click on a tiny 'Somerset' and even then, still be lucky to chance upon a posting that looks like every other one).
If there's an annual award ceremony, where they hand out 'Rooties', you guys had better make sure you keep the evening free.
It has indeed been an amazing saga. And, you know, I'm actually sad that it's now all over. For the past few days it has been a carousel of excitement, with brilliant stuff being uncovered by the hour. As I say, I am saddened that I now have to step off the merry-go-round, but also elated that the mystery I laid at your feet has been totally unlocked.
And, it all fits so beautifully! I'm pleased that the Bristol birth proved correct. The birthdate (1854) is not as the family had it (in 1852) but this is understandable in that it was exaggerated upwards to accomodate his wife's (Emma Cull's) birthdate of 1854. (It may be of passing interest to South Australians that Emma was the first daughter of a pardoned transportee, Caleb Cull, and born on the Bendigo goldfields at Tinpot Gully).
We now find that James was a Sergeant Major Drill instructor.
This explains why Richard, and I think his brothers too, were so seriously into physical pursuits - at a time when most people weren't. (It's no wonder they went bankrupt - they spent too much time playing!)
Richard (my ggf) was a professional athlete (runner), a boxer, a noted cricketer - well into his fifties, a rower, a crack rifle shooter and Australasian handball champion (a game like squash, without a racquet) as well as being a painter, singer and dramatist. (All this is supported by dozens of articles in the 'Southland Times' per 'Papers Past').
The 'drill instructor' background might also explain why the middle-aged James (snr) felt confident in taking on a sixteen year old bride.
Really, there is much more than this, but I don't wish to monopolise time and attention in here.
Obviously, I'm now quite interested in finding out a little more about Richard's grandparents, George and Ann Nash of Edmonton, Middlesex, but I will give you guys a chance to firstly recover your collective breaths.
I hope I haven't forgotten anything significant - I fear I have. I'll append it below, if it occurs to me.
Many many thanks to All -

Edric Eyre
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Thursday 21 January 10 00:24 GMT (UK)
I've just had a little 'fantail' - a small NZ native bird, (the Maori call 'piwakawaka') fly into the house here. This is not a rare event - these small creatures show a great deal more trust in humans than humans as a whole deserve - and often out in the bush (forest), they will virtually perch on your shoulder, if you sit still enough.
The crux of this is to tell you that Maori traditional belief holds that their intrusion into a dwelling is the harbinger of a death in the family, or at least bad luck. Well, I am rather hoping that it isn't my time to be added to the long list of past Nash's.
And, if it only brings bad luck, I think it got the wrong flamin' house!

Wow! And double Wow!
To say I'm thrilled would be a total understatement. I am just in awe of you guys. And it is indeed a pity that the countless thousands of people who visit this site would only see this masterpiece by chance. (They'd have to serendiptously select 'England', click on a tiny 'Somerset' and even then, still be lucky to chance upon a posting that looks like every other one).
If there's an annual award ceremony, where they hand out 'Rooties', you guys had better make sure you keep the evening free.
It has indeed been an amazing saga. and, you know, I'm actually sad that it's now all over. For the past few days it has been a carousel of excitement, with brilliant stuff being uncovered by the hour. As I say, I am saddened that I now have to step off the merry-go-round, but also elated that the mystery I laid at your feet has been totally unlocked.
And, it all fits so beautifully! I'm pleased that the Bristol birth proved correct. The birthdate (1854) is not as the family had it (in 1852) but this is understandable in that it was exaggerated upwards to accomodate his wife's (Emma Cull's) birthdate of 1854. (It may be of passing interest to South Australians that Emma was the first daughter of a pardoned transportee, Caleb Cull, and born on the Bendigo goldfields at Tinpot Gully).
We now find that James was a Sergeant Major Drill instructor.
This explains to my why Richard, and I think his brothers too, were so seriously into physical pursuits - at a time when most people weren't. (It's no wonder they went bankrupt - they spent too much time playing!)
Richard (my ggf) was a professional athlete (runner), a boxer, a noted cricketer - well into his fifties, a rower, a crack rifle shooter and Australasian handball champion (a game like squash, without a racquet) as well as being a painter, singer and dramatist. (All this is supported by dozens of articles in the 'Southland Times' per 'Papers Past').
The 'drill instructor' background might also explain why the middle-aged James (snr) felt confident in taking on a sixteen year old bride.
Really, there is much more than this, but I don't wish to monopolise time and attention in here.
Obviously, I'm now quite interested in finding out a little more about Richard's grandparents, George and Ann Nash of Edmonton, Middlesex, but I will give you guys a chance to first recover your collective breaths.
I hope I haven't forgotten anything significant - I fear I have. I'll append it below, if it occurs to me.
Many many thanks to All -

Edric Eyre

Sorry - I forgot the bouquet. (And it isn't as big as I ordered).
And apologies for the big blue Quote and the space it occupies - I pushed the wrong tab and don't know how to remove it now it's there.
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 21 January 10 10:35 GMT (UK)
I am totally in awe of what has been found :)
With my limited resourses at present I tried to see what I could find.
Christenings ; NASH, all Saint Andrew, Enfield, London
All with Parents GEORGE/ANN
JAMES 03 October 1824
HENRY 09 July 1826
MARY ANN 25 May 1828
JOHN 08 August 1830
ELIZA 26 January 1834
EMMA 29 September 1839

Henry does not appear on 1841 Census. He could have died or is away working.
And in 1851 Census William born abt 1823/23 turns up as a Pensioner. So was he a Miltary man also.
I cant find the christenings of William or George.

I think Emmas Birth Cert is a must as it will give Anns maiden name and then we may be able to find the Marriage of George and Ann.

This I think is the most probable;
Emma NASH
September 1839
Edmonton
3 87

I am also fascinated by all the Family info you provided Ed. It helps put flesh and bones onto the people we are researching.
I also loved the birds as I am from NZ originally.
Totally of the subject but do you know the Robbie Family of Wanganui? The Matriarch Marion died a couple of years ago.

Trish


Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Thursday 21 January 10 22:33 GMT (UK)
Well, Trish, so am I.
As I mentioned somewhere, up there, previously, it is a pity that more people who daily visit the greater Forum don't get to see the masterful job the few 'researchers' involved have done.
Maybe, this string isn't as unique as I think - possibly it happens like this all the time and I am just another one of the masses, I allude to, that never get to appreciate the other 'jobs' - simply because we've got no real incentive to trawl through other people's passions.
With (at the time of writing) about 480 visitors to the string it appears that a goodly number have viewed it. However, I temper that with the reality that many of that number could have been me!
I keep returning to the thread and reading through it from top to bottom. The plot segues as in a well-crafted novel.
Now, I really didn't want to precociously ask for more - but, if anyone's interested, then I am of course, all too ready to reboard the carousel.

What I do require now is the information of how I go about getting the copy/copies of the birth certificates, etc that you mention.
Indeed I would be very interested to find out a little more about George and Ann NASH (and other tangential things).



Many Thanks
Ed Eyre




I wasn't really going to ask for more ........ but




















Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Friday 22 January 10 19:49 GMT (UK)
A lead!

NZ BMD:  An Albert Joseph Stewart NASH died in NZ 1933 age 70.
So born abt 1863 (the right year to match the las on the BERAR in 1873)
Can't see a corresponding birth in NZ

NZBMD:
1889 MARRIAGE: Albert Joseph Stuart NASH and Elizabeth HALLASAY

http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/NEW-ZEALAND/1999-03/0922239267
Charles Lionel NASH married Emily HARRIS 27 Jan 1883 Makaraka, Turanga,
Gisborne NZ. Wits were Albert Joseph Stuart NASH and Rhoda NASH.
Presume the HARRIS family lived Makaraka; Timothy HARRIS was a contractor.
Both Charles NASH and Timothy HARRIS families were in NSW by 1885-6.

NSW Australia BMD:
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm
DEATH: Charles L NASH - 1903 - District NEWTOWN - Parents: James and Jane.


Cheers
AMBLY


This is just 'house-keeping' - possibly correcting a previous misconception;
The assertion that Charles Lionel NASH was 'in NSW by 1885/6 is probably incorrect.
NZ BMD shows two NZ born children  to Charles and Emily Nash -
Amelia Jane 1883/6412 and Albert Victor 1885/1430.

But, there is  the evidence of a business partnership, between the brothers Albert and Charles Nash in Dannevirke, NZ, in 1892.
There is no dispute that Charles died in NSW (1903) but he probably didn't arrive there with his family until at least 1893.

Ed










Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Marengo on Saturday 13 February 10 21:40 GMT (UK)
I would like to offer a correction to my 'correction':

On the basis of a recent confirmation *, it would appear that the 'C. Nash' advertised as the business partner of Albert Nash, (and which I thought showed Charles Lionel Nash's continued residence in NZ until at least 1893) is in fact a 'Charles Henry Nash' (died in NZ 1912).
The business partnership appears to have been quite a brief one - about nine months. The cynical might say that the two would've had to have been somehow related, based on the premise that there is often no more a dysfunctional business arrangement than a 'family' one.
So, I do strongly suspect that Charles Henry was a close relative of Albert Nash (and those others embraced in this thread) but have yet to determine the link.

* There is confirmation that the family of Charles and Emily Nash were in NSW by at least 1886, with the birth of their third child (May Nash) in Sydney, 1886.
Charles died in Sydney (1903) and Emily died, age 85 (as a Japanese internee, in 1945).

Ed
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: hheapet on Saturday 16 October 10 23:03 BST (UK)
Hi Ed,
Sorry to intrude on your late research but I have Caleb Cull on my tree. He was the third husband of Esther Cooper and my connection is through the daughter of Esther's first husband Benjamin Nightingale calles also Esther. She apparently also went with them to NZ as she married Henry Samson Wadham in 1864 at Wellington St Paul.
Do you have information on this?
You can check the data I have at my web site linked below.

Peter

http://wainwrights.familytreeguide.com/tree_index.php
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Roniece on Tuesday 03 January 12 08:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Marengo,
you mention he was known as George Nash only but all the records I can find on him he is Richard George Nash.

Marriage;
Richard George NASH
Emma CULL
1875/1101

These children all have their Father recorded as Richard George Nash on their birth regos plus Mother Emma.
Annie Jane 1878
Caleb John 1880
Emma 1881
Charles 1885#
Samuel Corea 1886#
James 1888#
(# ones you have mentioned)

Trish :)

I'm not sure how old this post is but I have just read thru the posts here and would like to state that Richard George Nash was my Father's Great Grandfather and an artist in Invercargill, New Zealand. We still have several paintings in our family that he did.

I hope this helps in some way for your search.

best wishes
Roniece
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Roniece on Tuesday 03 January 12 10:23 GMT (UK)
Hello Ed,
I am new to this website so not sure if I am replying correctly or not... My Uncle, Keith Dawson should be able to help you, I have recently returned from Invercargill over the Christmas period and we were discussing his Great Grandfather, Richard Nash whose painting is hanging in his living room. If you can email me your email I will forward it on to him to see if he can assist you further.

A little exciting to think we might have new relatives to discover!

All the best
Roniece
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: trish1120 on Tuesday 03 January 12 12:42 GMT (UK)
Hi Roneice,
Welcome to Rootschat.
You maybe able to PM Ed after 1 more post on here.
I have sent on your Email to him as it will be removed soon by the Moderator because of possible scammers.

How exciting that you have Paintings of the Family.

Trish  :)
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Roniece on Tuesday 03 January 12 17:45 GMT (UK)
thanks so much Trish.. apologies for putting in my email.. appreciate you letting me know.
Regards
Roniece
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: chrissymag on Monday 20 July 15 06:27 BST (UK)
Hi Edric,  I also share Richard George Nash as a gggrandfather.  My Grandfather was Samuel Corea Nash, although I never met him.  I can also ad to your info.

Chrissy
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: halfasheep on Wednesday 22 July 15 16:56 BST (UK)
I've been trying to follow this thread from 2010 since it just recently resurfaced. When I get home I'm going to check my records, because from memory I may be linked into this from his wife's side of the family. Not sure how much info I have on him as I've let my research slide the last year or so, but who knows
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Damian Bligh on Sunday 10 May 20 12:01 BST (UK)
Hello, would anyone know here if this James Nash is the son of Richard Nash....i've tried in vain for years to find his parents but to no joy. I don't belive he was born in NZ as there is no records of him there at all.

Hopefully people are still looking at this post.

Kind Regards

Damian Bligh

copyright image removed
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 10 May 20 13:43 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat Damian.

Was your James born c 1888?

If so earlier posting;

Marriage;
Richard George NASH
Emma CULL
1875/1101

These children all have their Father recorded as Richard George Nash on their birth regos plus Mother Emma.
Annie Jane 1878
Caleb John 1880
Emma 1881
Charles 1885#
Samuel Corea 1886#
James 1888#*******
(# ones you have mentioned)

Trish :)
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Damian Bligh on Sunday 10 May 20 13:54 BST (UK)
Hello Trish,

Thank-you so much for your reply. What we have on him is that he was born around 1888 in Auckland, that is what is stated on his marriage cert to his wife Isabella Crombie (which i have a large amount of info on). Unfortunately James is a mystery to our family (we have extensively researched most other lines in the family). I check NZBDM and he doesn't show at all, his son married my grandmother but died in his early 30's and the families never really knew where his father came from....My grandmother is alive at the great age of 93 and would love to let her know we solved this puzzle before she passed. We are so lucky on other branches some go back into the 1700's but James is just a mystery.......   
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852)
Post by: sarah on Sunday 10 May 20 15:07 BST (UK)
Welcome to RootsChat Damian,

We have just had to remove another copyright image from your posting which are not allowed. Please just type the information in your posting.

Regards

Sarah
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 11 May 20 12:19 BST (UK)
Hi Damian.
NZ BMD is down at the moment so I cant check but there must have been a 1888 Reg for James that I found several years ago as I quoted it then.
Title: Re: Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )
Post by: Nashqld01 on Sunday 12 June 22 10:39 BST (UK)
Hello Everyone, I have learnt so much from this tread so Thankyou So much! 
Where I play in the line is, my soon to be husband is the GG Grand Child of Charles Lionel Nash.
Charles was born in South Africa, He did live in NZ for a few years, after getting married, came to Australia and started there family here.
Being from this line we don’t have any of the family story’s of siblings, I would love to see some photos if anyone has any?
Once again thanks so much for the tread. Xox