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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: bhunter on Sunday 24 January 10 19:19 GMT (UK)

Title: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: bhunter on Sunday 24 January 10 19:19 GMT (UK)
I am looking for the name of the troops that were on the SS Asiatic that left from Portsmouth 7 Dec 1878 and arrived in Durban 10 Jan 1879 - I'm assuming for the war against the Zulus that was declared on 11 Jan 1879.
Thanks
B
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: John Young on Sunday 24 January 10 20:18 GMT (UK)
B,

The steamship Asiatic carried the Regimental Headquarters & two companies of the 99th Duke of Edinburgh's (Lanarkshire) Regiment.

If you are looking for a particular name, please fire away I'm an Anglo-Zulu War fundi.

Isandlwana
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: bhunter on Monday 25 January 10 05:10 GMT (UK)
Thanks.
I don't know if you will be able to help as I'm not even sure my relative was in the army, I just know he was on that ship and he seems to have been involved with the doctor and the hospital so he was possibly a medic.  His name was Charles Henry COX.
Thanks
B
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: John Young on Monday 25 January 10 20:41 GMT (UK)
B,

Only two C. Cox's on the Medal Roll for the campaign; both Privates one in the 4th (King's Own) Regiment & the other in the 60th (King's Royal Rifle Corps) Rifles.

It is possible he was in the employ of the Union Steamship Company the owners of the Asiatic.

I have an engraving of the 99th embarking for the campaign, I'll have to check the ship that they are shown boarding.



Isandlwana
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: bhunter on Tuesday 26 January 10 08:07 GMT (UK)
Thats great - thanks.
This is an extract from the diary - As we came on board an artist of Illustrated paper took a sketch of us in marching order.  It seemed strange to me to see C & D Pry carriages in which the 99th arrived.  Reported ourselves to staff officer of Pensioners at Royal Engineers Barracks at Southampton who sent a Col Srgt as guard who escorted us to the quay & made ourselves comfortable on board.
Thanks
B
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: John Young on Tuesday 26 January 10 21:54 GMT (UK)
Bridget,

It is the Asiatic, the engraving appears in The Graphic 14th December 1878.

Sadly it is too big for my scanner, however the British Library have a copy which is free the reference is somewhat long-winded but here it is:
  very long link  (http://newspapers.bl.uk/blcs/retrieve.do?subjectParam=Locale%2528en%252C%252C%2529%253ALQE%253D%2528jn%252CNone%252C6%2529%25221ZTP%2522%253AAnd%253ALQE%253D%2528AF%252CNone%252C5%2529image%253AAnd%253ALQE%253D%2528da%252CNone%252C23%252912%252F01%252F1878%2B-%2B12%252F31%252F1878%2524&contentSet=LTO&sort=DateAscend&tabID=T012&sgCurrentPosition=0&subjectAction=DISPLAY_SUBJECTS&prodId=BLCS&retrieveFormat=MULTIPAGE_DOCUMENT&searchId=R2&currentPosition=22&userGroupName=blcsuser&resultListType=RESULT_LIST&sgHitCountType=None&qrySerId=Locale%28en%2C%2C%29%3ALQE%3D%28jn%2CNone%2C6%29%221ZTP%22%3AAnd%3ALQE%3D%28AF%2CNone%2C5%29image%3AAnd%3ALQE%3D%28da%2CNone%2C23%2912%2F01%2F1878+-+12%2F31%2F1878%24&inPS=true&searchType=AdvancedSearchForm&displaySubject=&&docId=&docLevel=FASCIMILE&workId=&relevancePageBatch=BA3201426819&contentSet=BNCN&callistoContentSet=BNCN&docPage=article&hilite=y&mcode=1ZTP)

Isandlwana



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Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: bhunter on Wednesday 27 January 10 08:28 GMT (UK)
 :)
That is fantastic - thanks.
The page had expired but I managed to find the article and the illustration.
Thanks again.
B

Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: bhunter on Wednesday 27 January 10 13:23 GMT (UK)
The other people C H COX mentions are TAYLOR and Corpl HEMMINGS.
Thanks
B

Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: still_looking on Thursday 28 January 10 21:06 GMT (UK)
lots of regimental info here (if you haven't already seen the site)

https://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/index.php
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: John Young on Friday 29 January 10 08:41 GMT (UK)
Bridget,

I've found him!  My fault - I've got a separate file for Medical personnel.

Private 3804 C. H. Cox, Army Hospital Corps.

Enlisted 21st June 1878.  Paid by the General Depot, Pietermaritzburg 24th January 1879 until 31st March 1879, then to AHC rolls.

Discharge by purchase 22nd June 1882, received the South African General Service Medal without clasp.

That being the case the doctor he would have travelled with on the Asiatic was Surgeon Dugald Blair Brown, Army Medical Department.

The 'Taylor' mentioned in the text would I'm sure have been Private 3732 John Taylor, who also travelled on the Asiatic, and was also paid by General Depot, Pietermaritzburg for the same period of time.

No 'Hemmings' as yet but still looking!

Isandlwana
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: bhunter on Friday 29 January 10 10:06 GMT (UK)
 :)
You are amazing - thank you - that is brilliant!!
B
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: GrahamSimons on Wednesday 14 November 12 22:21 GMT (UK)

If you are looking for a particular name, please fire away I'm an Anglo-Zulu War fundi.

Isandlwana

On the off-chance, can you find the name Herbert Rowland Symons (or perhaps Simons), probably in one of the irregular or volunteer units? I've not found him in the Army List. He was born 1850 and spent some time in the RN, but did not pass for Lieutenant, not sure why not, and also spent time in India in the Police. A family source says he was involved in the Zulu War - and the source has yet to be proved wholly wrong on any claim, although some were just off-target.

Thanks a million

Graham
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: caro-dee on Thursday 15 November 12 17:01 GMT (UK)
Have just discovered this thread. How exciting!
I wonder if 'Isandlwana' is able to find any mention of my great grandfather Robert Whinham (sometimes spelt wrongly as Winham), Farrier Sergeant of N Battery, 5th Brigade, Royal Artillery who was killed at Isandlwana on 22 Jan. 
My grandmother, an only child, who was born on 24 April 1877 in Woolwich, never knew her father, but I wonder when exactly he left for South Africa and if he may have seen his child.  Granny was very proud of him and used to tell me he was the tallest man in the British Army, 6ft. 7.  Each of her four children was given the name Whinham as a middle name.
Is there any way of finding out where he was during the battle?
I attach (hopefully) his photograph.
Many thanks Caroline
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: John Young on Thursday 15 November 12 20:32 GMT (UK)
Graham,

Sorry no exact matches I'm afraid the Medal Roll shows some Simons & Symons, but none with those initials.

Sorry,

Isandlwana
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: GrahamSimons on Thursday 15 November 12 22:20 GMT (UK)
Thank you ever so much for help in the hunt. As always a negative result is disappointing, but it does mean I have more research to do in order to complete the story of this man's life.
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: John Young on Thursday 15 November 12 22:36 GMT (UK)
Caroline,

Firstly an excellent photograph of your Great-Grandfather!  (I’m going to have to divide my reply to you over three posts afraid due to the word count.)

Farrier Sergeant 841 Robert Whinham, attested for the Army on 21st March 1866 at the age of 19 years.

N Battery, 5th Brigade, Royal Artillery - which was composed of five officers and 133 men - left Woolwich for South Africa on 9th January 1878.  The Battery embarked on the steamer Dublin Castle the following day for service in the 9th Cape Frontier War against the amaXhosa people in the Eastern Cape.  The ship arrived in Cape Town on 3rd February 1878.  Here the Battery divided with two officers, roughly a third of the other-ranks and two cannon going to the Colony of Natal, whilst the remainder of the battery were transported by sea to the port of East London and from there to King William's Town, which was the headquarters of the British & Colonial forces fighting the amaXhosa.

The 9th Cape Frontier War was in main a war of hit & run tactics by the amaXhosa, N/5 acted in support of the infantry on a number of occasions.  With the conclusion of the campaign in June 1878 the larger section of N/5 moved up through the Eastern Cape and on to Natal, a journey which took two months to complete.

The Battery were based at Fort Napier, Pietermaritzburg from September 1878 until November 1878, when they moved upcountry to the town of Greytown, in readiness for the Anglo-Zulu War.  The Anglo-Zulu War of 1879 came about due to the British Confederation Policy, this in turn led to the British High Commissioner for southern Africa Sir Henry Edward Bartle Frere issuing a series of demands on King Cetshwayo kaMpande, the King of the Zulu.  Demands which Frere know Cetshwayo could not, and would not accept.  Consequently on the expiry of an ultimatum on 11th January 1879 British forces invaded the sovereign kingdom of kwaZulu (Zululand).

N/5 were attached to No. 3 Column, which was accompanied by the General-Officer-Commanding British Forces in southern Africa, Lieutenant-General Lord Chelmsford.  No. 3 Column entered kwaZulu by crossing the Buffalo River at a crossing-point named Rorke's Drift.  Two other columns would enter kwaZulu in a pincher movement one from the south-east, the other from the north-west.  The aim of the three columns was to confront the Zulu army at Ulundi, the Zulu 'capital'.  After an initial skirmish with Zulu forces on 12th January 1879 at the homestead of a border chieftain named Sihayo kaXongo, No. 3 Column progressed slowly into the Zulu country.

On Monday 20th January 1879 the lumbering column reached the foot of a rocky crag called Isandlwana.  The men of the 24th Regiment of Foot, who provided the infantry arm of the column, could not help but recognize how the mountain resembled their Sphinx cap and collar badges, which had been awarded to the regiment to commemorate the campaign in Egypt against Bonaparte.

(To be cont.)
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: John Young on Thursday 15 November 12 22:43 GMT (UK)
(Cont.)

The camp at Isandlwana was only meant to be a temporary staging-camp before a further advance into the Zulu heartland.  Therefore contrary to his own orders Lord Chelmsford did not establish a defensive wagon laager as he felt the Zulu threat lay nearer to the royal inkandla at Ulundi.  On Tuesday 21st January he ordered a two-pronged reconnaissance to probe the stronghold of Matshana kaMondisa.  Commandant Rupert Lonsdale took two battalions of the N.N.C. eastwards on one route, whilst Major John Dartnell took eighty of his Natal Mounted Police, together with fifty mounted volunteers on another.

In the late afternoon, Dartnell come into contact with Matshana’s forces.  He sent gallopers back to Isandlwana seeking assistance from Lord Chelmsford.  At 4.30a.m. on Wednesday, 22nd January 1879, Chelmsford divided No. 3 Column in order to reinforce Dartnell and Lonsdale.  Chelmsford took with him six companies of the 2nd Battalion, 24th Regiment, four cannon from N Battery, 5th Brigade Royal Artillery and most of the mounted infantry squadron. 

Left behind at Isandlwana were five companies of 1st/24th; one company of the 2nd/24th; two 7-pounder Rifled Muzzle Loading cannon and their crews from the Royal Artillery (including your Great-Grandfather); just over 100 mounted troops drawn from the Natal volunteer force and the British Mounted Infantry and some four hundred African troops from the Natal Native Contingent and their European officers and n.c.o.’s.  All of whom fell under the command of Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel Henry Pulleine of the 1st Battalion, 24th Regiment.  Pulleine was a career soldier, yet in 23 years of soldiering he had not seen a shot fired in anger.

At about 8am a large force of Zulu were sighted near the camp.  Pulleine throw out his infantry in a line in front of the camp with two guns of N/5 initially deployed to the left of the line.

At about 10am the British was reinforced by the arrival of part of No. 2 Column under the command of a Brevet Colonel Anthony Durnford, Royal Engineers who commanded a force of about 500 men, composed of African infantry and light cavalry, who were called the Natal Native Horse. 

Reports were coming of increasing Zulu activity. One report stated that a Zulu column was moving off in the direction that Lord Chelmsford had taken his half column. Fearful that the General’s force might be attacked on two fronts Durnford took matters into his own hands. He informed Pulleine that he intended to sweep the area thus drawing out the Zulus. He asked Pulleine for some of his infantry to assist him in the task. Pulleine objected to the request, again stating his task was to defend the camp. Durnford then asked for support should his force encounter difficulties to which acquiesced.
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: John Young on Thursday 15 November 12 22:44 GMT (UK)
(Cont.)

Durnford sent two troops of his Native Horse off on to the Nquthu plateau, under the command of Captain William Barton. Whilst he himself went out with two troops of the Native Horse along the track the General’s half column had taken. Following in the wake of the horsemen came Major Francis Russell and a rocket battery - which including a Bombardier of N/5 - supported by 'D' Company, 1st/1st Natal Native Contingent .

A patrol of Native Horse, chanced upon the concealed Zulu impi of some 25,000 warriors in Ngwebeni valley, thereby pre-empting an attack which Ntshingwayo, the Zulu field commander, had planned for the following day.  The young warriors of the umCijo regiment, rose up and charged.  The izinDuna tried to stem the tide but only succeeded in keeping the uNdi corps in reserve.  Battle had commenced.

The Zulu formed into their traditional battle formation of the impondo zankomo – the horns of the beast.  The impi poured off of the plateau.

Initially the British firing-line, supported by the two guns of N/5 held, and the Zulu forces began to take a large number of casualties.  As they sheltered from the leaden storm, Mkhosana, an inkhosi of the Biyela clan stood up in contempt of the gunfire.  He yelled to those around him an order that has become a rallying cry to this day when people talk of the Zulu heroes of this battle.  He shouted “The Little Branch of Leaves That Extinguished the Fire – one of King Cetshwayo’s praise names – gave no such order to hide from these British!  - To arms!”  At which a British bullet drilled into his skull. 

Thousands of Zulu heard this rallying cry and took fresh heart.  They leaped to their feet and charged.  A hole was punched into the British defensive line and the fleet-of-foot warriors soon amongst the British and the colonial allies.

The British forces were forced to retreat on the camp, the firing line fractured into small isolated groups and pockets of resistance, one survivor stated they were like red-coated islands in a sea of black.  At the height of the battle a solar eclipse occurred adding to the horror.

It was over within about an hour, about 1,400 men on the British side were killed.  About eighty-five Europeans survived the battle.  Of the two officers and seventy men of N/5 who were in the camp, only one officer and nine men survived the action, their guns - the Colours of the Royal Artillery, so to speak - were lost to the Zulu, they were taken as trophies of war they were paraded before King Cetshwayo.

I was present on 22nd January 1999 when a memorial to the fallen of N Battery, 5th Brigade, Royal Artillery was unveiled on the battlefield of Isandlwana.

Sorry if this is a long-winded reply, but hopefully it goes some way to answer your question as to where your Great-Grandfather was. 

Regards,

Isandlwana
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: caro-dee on Friday 16 November 12 17:33 GMT (UK)
Many many thanks Isandlwana for your most interesting and informative reply and for taking such trouble to go into all the detail.  It certainly tells me my ggfather's story out there in S. Africa.  I have often watched 'Zulu' and 'Zulu Dawn' and wondered whereabouts Robert Whinham would have been in the action, next time they are on TV I shall be sure to have your email to hand!  I only hope his end was quick, poor fellow.  It must have been an emotional day for you and all who were there in 1999 when the memorial was unveiled beneath that terrible hill.
Robert Whinham was born on the Alnwick Castle estate where his father was gamekeeper to the Duke (of Northumberland).  Robert was there in the 1861 Census, as 'ag. lab.'  He is missing from the 1871 census, no doubt abroad with his regiment.  He was back in Woolwich in 1876 for his marriage in June and was gone as you say, in Jan 1878.
Attached is his memorial card.
Many thanks again
Regards Caroline
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: John Young on Friday 16 November 12 23:53 GMT (UK)
Caroline,

Only too happy to help.

A wonderful memorial card, and interesting as the age on the card doesn't tally with his enlistment age, maybe his height was a factor in what appears to be his underage enlistment.

I thought you might like to see the two 7-pounders of the Battery after they had been recovered on 11th August 1879.  Lieutenant-General Sir Garnet Wolseley, who replaced Lord Chelmsford in the field, had them brought into his camp and placed again under the Union Flag.

(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h4/Isandlwana/CannonofN5.jpg)
The cannon of N Battery, 5th Brigade, Royal Artillery.

Here is a photograph of Brevet Major Stuart Smith, who assumed command of the guns during the morning of 22nd January 1879.

(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h4/Isandlwana/StuartSmith1864patternRAPatrol.jpg)
Brevet Major Stuart Smith

Major Smith was killed on the Zulu bank of the Buffalo River.

I'm at Isandlwana in January, I try and take a decent photograph of N/5's memorial and post it here so you can see it.

Regards,

Isandlwana
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: Rena on Saturday 17 November 12 01:33 GMT (UK)
I keep coming across this thread and I can't contain myself any longer in asking if you know whether there was any fighting near Tarkastad, which is near Cradock? 

My grandfather's brother went out there sometime after 1876 and died 8th May 1879 aged 27.  I haven't got his death cert., but the Death Notice states he was a salesman, although I suppose he could have belonged to one of the home guard militias but I've not yet found a list for the local group.

Thanks in advance
Rena
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: km1971 on Saturday 17 November 12 05:27 GMT (UK)
Hi Rena

If it is the Cradock north of Port Elizabeth than it is 8-900 miles west of Zululand.

Ken
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: km1971 on Saturday 17 November 12 07:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Caroline

As Isandlwana says a wonderful memorial card (and photograph). Here hopefully is a photograph of the battlefield. It is taken at the start of the ‘dead ground’ just in front of the initial location of the two guns. Their location is marked by the two nearest white markers – right of centre. The other white dots are piles of stones covering the remains which were gathered together when the site was revisited six months after the battle. There is a big cluster over to the top left towards where the main camp was located. This was on the saddle between the two hills, and is about half a mile from the initial gun position.

If you PM me with an email address I will send you a better version plus one of the RA memorial. You will be pleased to hear that his name is spelt correctly.

This link - http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/zulu/despatch4_isandhlwana_isandlwana.htm - gives the accounts presented to a local court of enquiry two weeks later. The last statement (B) is from the surviving RA officer. Farrier Sergeant Whinham was the senior of the two sergeants killed. A witness saw one RA sergeant killed on the retreat through the camp. The other was most likely killed on the way to Fugitive’s Drift.

It is generally accepted that the guns were badly positioned. There is a lot of dead ground in front of them that meant the Zulus disappeared from view only to reappear again about 100 yards away. They were also too far forward – they were virtually on the infantry firing line – so when the infantry retired the guns were unable to do an orderly retreat. They lost the ammunition (in the limbers) and after that could only try and save the guns. But by then it was too late. Chelmsford, Durnford and Pulliene did not know where the Zulus where and if the camp had been fortified based around the saddle between the two hills, the Zulus would probably not have attacked. In other battles a quickly thrown up defensive position always managed to fend off a Zulu attack.

Both films have a bit of added ‘hollywood’. In Zulu Dawn there was no rift between Chelmsford and Durnford. Durnford was told to come up and take command. In Zulu the main problem is that Stanley Baker (who financed the film) turned it into a welsh movie.

Ken
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: Rena on Saturday 17 November 12 11:51 GMT (UK)
Hi Rena

If it is the Cradock north of Port Elizabeth than it is 8-900 miles west of Zululand.

Ken

Thanks Ken
Yes, I could see by the map it's a few milimetres west of the famous Zululand battle(s)  ;D but I thought; "if you never ask, you never know" and I thought maybe another tribe had had a few skirmishes.

Thanks again,
Rena 
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: John Young on Saturday 17 November 12 12:20 GMT (UK)
Rena,

To put it politely, local resistance to the British Confederation Policy in that area of the Eastern Cape had been pacified by mid-1878.

I take it you have searched the National Archives of South Africa for any correspondence held in Cape repository relating to his death?

Isandlwana
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: Rena on Saturday 17 November 12 13:09 GMT (UK)
Rena,

To put it politely, local resistance to the British Confederation Policy in that area of the Eastern Cape had been pacified by mid-1878.

I take it you have searched the National Archives of South Africa for any correspondence held in Cape repository relating to his death?

Isandlwana

Yes I saw his name in NAAIRS online. There was supposed to be a folder for each of the Death Notice/Death Cert/Will.  However, a local am. researcher only found the death notice dated May, which was signed by his widow pregnant with their first child. A comment at the top of the DN was "Filed 8th November 1879".   The Will folder was empty and no sign of the death cert.  The widow married shortly afterwards, was widowed again & brought 2 sons back to Scotland - aged 10 & 11 on Scottish census. I haven't found any births/marriages records but I live in hopes.

I didn't request official archivist research because at the time there were quite a few negative comments about that route.

Thanks again and I apologise for having disrupted this thread.

Rena
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: caro-dee on Saturday 17 November 12 16:54 GMT (UK)
Hello Isandlwana,
Thank you for the email and poignant photographs.  Yes the dates are wrong for Rbt. Whinham's birth, he was baptized on 21 May 1848.  Mind you his widow gave her own age as 10 years younger in other censuses and also when she married again in 1896, either Maths. or the truth were not her strong points!
I had searched the internet for a photo of the memorial some time ago without any luck, it would be lovely to see one.
Are you also descended from one of the fallen -  or perhaps one of the survivors?
Regards Caroline.
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: John Young on Saturday 17 November 12 18:23 GMT (UK)
Caroline,

I'm distantly related to one of the 2nd Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment who were on the right of the defensive line.  They were overwhelmed when they went to support the force under Colonel Durnford in the donga.

He was also from Northumberland!

Regards,

Isandlwana
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: Julian1952 on Saturday 15 December 12 11:46 GMT (UK)
Caroline
Your great-grandfather was one of fifty artillerymen in the camp - not one of the 20 out serving the two guns.  He may have been involved in helping to take ammunition out to the line.  I wonder, could you pm me?  I am about to publish an article on N/5 battery in a collection of Zulu War essays and would love your permission to use your photo in it.
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: Julian1952 on Saturday 15 December 12 20:36 GMT (UK)
Caroline
Many thanks.  If you pm me your address I'll send you a copy of the book with the N/5 article in when it's published end of Jan/beg of Feb.  I also had a relative killed at Isandhlwana (in the 1/24th)!
Regards
Julian
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: WkdWitch on Tuesday 22 January 13 18:00 GMT (UK)
Hi All  ;D

My very first post, the first of many I imagine. What a great site.

I came across this thread while googling for information regarding a relative of mine who may, or may not, have been involved in the ANGLO ZULU wars in 1879.

I have found official documentation (Ancestry) of him being enlisted in to the Royal Artillery London on the 8th April 1879 with him joining the company at Portsmouth on the 11th April 1879. So I am looking at the possibility he was on his way somewhere. Could he have been shipped to Durban for the final months of this war?

His name was Henry John Hayward and he was 19yrs 11mths old at the time of enlistment (born 1860). I have been able to trace him from birth to the attached piece of information, after that there is nothing. Not even a death notification of any kind. I am guessing he didn't make it back from where ever he went. I would really like to know what happend to him. He was my Great, Great Grandfathers brother and only sibling.

I would be very grateful if someone were able to share any information about ships from Portsmouth, the movements of the Royal Artillery at this time or any further suggestion on how I can follow his trail. 

Thanks very much.

Moderator Comment: Image removed for copyright reasons.
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: John Young on Tuesday 22 January 13 23:46 GMT (UK)
WkdWitch,

I would hazard an educated guess and say he did not serve in the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879.

The only Henry Hayward I can find in the Medal Roll was killed at the Battle of Isandlwana, on 22nd January 1879.  He was the Armourer-Sergeant of the 1st Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment.

The only Royal Artillery man with the surname Hayward, was a Gunner W. H. Hayward, 'N' Battery, 6th Brigade, Royal Artillery.  N/6 left Southampton on 24th February 1879, bound for Durban, arriving on 31st March 1879.

Given the date of his enlistment, I imagine that your relative had just concluded his recruit training just prior to the last major battle of the Anglo-Zulu War, which was fought at Ulundi on 4th July 1879.

The only ship carrying replacements/reinforcements to leave Portsmouth after his enlistment was the Orontes which departed on 1st May 1879 and arrived in Natal, South Africa on 4th June 1879, but there were no artillerymen amongst the drafts.

Sorry,

Regards

John
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: WkdWitch on Wednesday 23 January 13 00:35 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for your very quick reply (I thought I'd be waiting weeks, you posted you were away in January), it is appreciated, and please don't be sorry.

You have saved me many, many hours of futile research, exasperated hair pulling, late nights I regret in the morning, and a sore site link tapping finger. Sniff. Generally, all to no avail. As it would have been in this case. 

I try to, tentatively, put peices in the puzzle by following the information I have. I find out whats going on around that time, wiegh it all up and guess alot. But it has to be solid, undeniable, before I add it to my tree.

I am very much a novice, but love the chase. So don't worry, I am quite used to coming to dead ends. It's all hit and miss. If you don't look, and keep looking, you can't find.... and the hits are so much fun!!!

One last question to you, if I may?

Looking at the information you can see from the document I posted earlier, and even though it may now be out of your area of expertise. Are you able to suggest the next course of investigation I should take?  Google has been putting up a spirited fight or waving the white flag and claiming ignorance. Either way.....

 Wall. Head. Bang. Ouch!

:D
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: km1971 on Wednesday 23 January 13 08:19 GMT (UK)
Can you post a link to the above page. I am having problems finding it on online.

Ken
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: WkdWitch on Wednesday 23 January 13 09:16 GMT (UK)
I am not quite sure what you mean as you are posting on this page. LoL But here is the link anyway...

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=432827.new;topicseen#new

Or was it another page you were referring to. Apologies if I have misunderstood your request.  :-[
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: freddiebean on Wednesday 23 January 13 09:29 GMT (UK)
I think Ken means this link

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/browse/view.aspx?dbid=1219&iid=30837_153940-00980&pid=890520&ssrc=&fn=Henry+John&ln=Hayward&st=g
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: WkdWitch on Wednesday 23 January 13 09:41 GMT (UK)
Ah Haaa! Thank you very much for clearing that up.   :)

I am still finding my way around here and very wet behind the ears in general.  ;D
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: km1971 on Wednesday 23 January 13 11:08 GMT (UK)
Thanks Freddie. No wonder I could not find it in the records of men discharged before 1914 when they have filed it in WW1 papers. They probably kept it to one side due to the 'complications' of him disappearing to Australia rather than continue his service in the Army Reserve. Mind you that is probably why it is as bulky as it is, as most records of 1879-1891 era have been culled down to four enlistment pages.

Regarding your question about service during the Zulu War, if you look at the top of the third page it says he only served in Gibraltar and Malta. Portsmouth had a large RA presence in order to defend the port.

Ken

In case you are wondering a 'life certificate' was a form signed by a person in authority (ie a vicar/priest) to confirm the man was alive. The certificate would have been given to someone picking up his Reservist pay. Reservists earned half-pay (about 7-8d a day for a Bombardier) in exchange for attending two weeks training each year.
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: WkdWitch on Wednesday 23 January 13 20:28 GMT (UK)
Thank you very much Ken.....I didn't even know there was a third page.  ;D

That's one mistake I won't be making again. I could have saved my self a good few hours if I had just clicked the next button. Never mind, I have had a good look through and found plenty of information. He was quite a scallywag judging by his Army records! As were all the Haywards. Love this side of the family. Hehehe

I will leave the thread to get back on track and see if I can find out what he got up to in Australia (which explains his lack of English records)

Your help is much appreciated.

 ;)

Actually one last question. I am now on the quest for the records of Christopher Pearcey who served in the 8th Foot Kings 1st Battalion recieving the Indian Mutiny Medal after serving 14 years in India. (I think) Is there a section/thread that might be of help?
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: millymcb on Thursday 24 January 13 02:16 GMT (UK)
Hello and Welcome to Rootschat WkdWitch

You can start a new thread yourself for Christopher Pearcey.

Click on >>Armed Forces>> above.
Scroll down the page slightly, Then click on NEW TOPIC and away you go.

Milly

Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: WkdWitch on Thursday 24 January 13 09:34 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the tip Milly, will do.  ;)
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: LKE9 on Wednesday 13 November 19 16:58 GMT (UK)
Dear All.

Please may anyone shed some light on this query.
I am trying to record some physical evidence military records for:

William Chaplin - (b. Ipswich 1859. d. Whitechapel 1889)
His diary (pic attached) records his departure on the SS Dublin Castle from South West India Dock, 26th November 1878, on 27th Nov passing Dover at 06:00.

His son had got this far:

Military Service:
- Medal: South African General Service Medal, for six campaigns from 1877 – 1879
- Natal garrison duty.
- He was a mounted soldier. (Natal Infantry Volunteers, none served in Zululand, only mounted corps.)
- Maritzburg Rifles, were in garrison. (The Natal Royal Regiment, raised in 1867 as the Pietermaritzburg Volunteer Rifle Corps and from 1868 known as the Maritzburg Rifles. In 1887 they amalgamated with the Royal Durban Rifles.)
- Served at Isandlwana. 22nd January 1879.
- Served at Rorke’s Drift. Possibly fought here. 23rd January 1879.
- Unit served likely was within 2 & 3 Columns, the Newcastle Mounted Rifles and the Buffalo Border Guard. Also with these three columns were 3 Battalions, the 1st Regiment Natal Native Contingent, and the 1st and 2nd Battalions 3rd Natal Native Contingent.
- Not served in the Natal Carbineers, roll checked and name not present.
- Not served with one of the Transvaal Vol. Mounted units. Wounded list checked.
- Possibly the Frontier Light Horse, the Imperial Unit, some Natal Corps, Lonsdale’s Horse.

Q's:
- Are there enrollment lists.
- Are there vessel passenger lists.
- Is there a record of soldiers served, volunteer or other.

Thank you.
LK

Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: LKE9 on Tuesday 19 November 19 12:09 GMT (UK)
Dear All.

I hope re-posting this - may put it back up the feed and galvanise some interest and assistance.
Any and all is much appreciated.

Thank you.
LK
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 19 November 19 15:41 GMT (UK)
Hi LK and welcome to Rootschat.

I haven't been able to find your William Chaplin in the 1877-79 South Africa medal rolls - have you found him?

Does the diary record his presence at Isandhlwana on 22 January 1879?  As I'm sure you will be aware there were very few survivors.
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 19 November 19 15:51 GMT (UK)
The Dublin Castle was a mail boat, not a troopship. Contemporary newspaper reports record that she was carrying mail, passengers and war material including 40 tons of ball cartridge.
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 19 November 19 15:57 GMT (UK)
The death in Whitechapel in 1889 is a William Robert Chaplin. There is a South Africa medal for a Private W R Chaplin of the Durban Volunteer Artillery.
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: BumbleB on Tuesday 19 November 19 17:09 GMT (UK)
Sorry, can't help with William Chaplin, but this is a photograph I took at Isandlwana back in 2010.  A truly evocative site, even more so than Spion Kop, or the numerous CWGC sites in Europe - later dates, I know!

Added:  the piles of white-washed stones represent graves.

Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: hensher on Wednesday 20 November 19 21:00 GMT (UK)
I believe my great grandfather William Edmond Hensher may have fought in the Anglo Zulu war though I don't know if he was in England or South Africa at the time! He married in Cape Town in 1884 to Esther Emily Beckett from Port Elizabeth but was to and fro to England. He was a gold mining prospector. The story goes that he used to trade with the Zulus but that may be embroidery!!
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: LKE9 on Wednesday 13 January 21 00:58 GMT (UK)
> ShaunJ > YES this is the W R Chaplin I am looking for - he died of TB in Whitechapel - where did you find the medal information, and where could I find more on his military record ?
thank you
Title: Re: ANGLO ZULU WAR 11 JAN 1879
Post by: ShaunJ on Wednesday 13 January 21 10:24 GMT (UK)
There isn't much to see - just his name on a list:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1686/31794_221411-00163/1078964