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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: chinakay on Tuesday 26 January 10 06:53 GMT (UK)
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Died, according to Mt Royal Cem's record, in Long Point Home, Ontario.
Died, according to the Quebec PR page, on May 21, 1896.
She was born in Dundee, Scotland, also according to the PR.
So why can't I find her in the Ontario records? :P
She's the only relative, that I know of, who had anything to do with Ontario...so I have no experience with Ontario records. How good are they? Is there something I don't know about looking up stuff in them?
Cheers,
China
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If she died in Quebec why would there be a record of it in Ontario?
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Cause she died in Long Point Home, Ontario :D See above ;D ;D ;D
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There is no trick with Ontario records. They are usually excellent so I would suggest there has been a transcription error.
Would you like some help looking for her or do you want to find your Ontario lady yourself? (her being one of a kind and all ;D )
dollylee
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Would her name be Christine? ::)
dollylee
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Try these
http://www.genealogysearch.org/canada/ontario.html
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Cause she died in Long Point Home, Ontario :D See above ;D ;D ;D
I misunderstood when you said her death was recorded in Quebec parish records.
If you want more eyes looking then please post her name.
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Morning everybody :) It's 0F with a windchill, what a perfect day to be indoors :)
She is Annie Paterson, I think but can't yet prove, my great-grandfather's sister. If I can prove she's his sister, I have his parents, huzzah! Since I can't find a Scottish birth for him, I have a very good theory who his parents were, but it's only a theory.
She was living with my ggrandfather William at the 1891 census, in Montreal.
Here's what I've searched for, so far:
Ann, Annie Paterson, Patterson
______Paterson, Patterson
Ann, Annie ___________
______ _____________
Date of death May 1896, 21 May 1896
Date of birth 1854, 1855, 1856
Place of birth Scotland, Dundee Scotland
I've tried every combination I can think of, but it was so late last night and my brain was fried :P
If you'd like to give it a go, please enjoy yourself :)
Cheers,
China
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Hi China :)
Not sure if you've seen this possible birth reg:
1855, Dundee Burgh First District, Ann Graham Paterson (no image on SP so you'll have to order) It's the only one listed in Dundee in either the OPRs or the Statutory records for 1854-57
For some reason it's not on the IGI - maybe it was a very poor image.
I've got a sense of deja vu here - haven't we done the Scottish end before on a cold day in Minnesota :P
Gadget
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Gadget! Hi, yes I've seen it, and as you say there's no image.
It could be her.
But as I have her living with her mother in 1861 & 1871, and 1881 with her brother after her mother died...I'm not all that concerned with her birth. Should I be?
She's 8 in 1861, giving a birth date of 1853.
She's 17 in 1871, giving a birth date of 1854.
She's 29 in 1881, giving a birth date of 1852.
In 1891 she's 36, giving a birth date of 1855.
In 1896 the PR says she was 44 years old, giving a birth date of 1852. The burial record also says 44 years old.
And yes, we've done this before. But now I have cemetery information about the place of death. I also signed up for one month of World Ancestry :D
Cheers,
China
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I assumed that as you didn't know her birth, you might like it - but it's your ancestor not mine :)
I can vouch for the Ontario BMDs as being really good. I've found masses on my rellies on them.
I've had World membership for ages :)
So do you want me to look or not ::)
Gadget
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Go for it! Please, yes....your mind isn't spinning in circles like mine is ;D
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Just tried Ann* Pat*...still nothing with the right date of death. Or place of birth.
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There is only one death reg showing for around that time (but May 1895) and for her approx age (38) but it's for a married AP, born Toronto.
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Yep.
I just found the county Long Point is in...Norfolk.
But.................looking at the PR again, it says she died in Montreal. I'm not too bothered about that, because the Cemetery record says:
Annie Paterson
Born in Scotland
Died: May 21st, 1896
Age 44 Years Old
Place of Death: Long Point Home, Ontario
Last Residence: Long Point Home, Ontario
So, it's fairly clear that she died in Ontario.
Here's the problem: Long Point is a very long way from Montreal. The last time I drove from Montral to Toronto, it was five hours at the speed limit of 100kph (okay, maaaybe just a little bit over ;D).
Long Point is a good hour beyond that. At 100kph.
But the PR says she was buried the day after she died...on May 22, 1896.
Something's off, but I don't know if I should worry about it.
But as I'm getting nowhere, I suppose it's moot :(
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Wait...I've just found a bunch of other Long Points in Ontario...one of them is much closer to Montreal, abt 150 miles, and it's just off the highway.
Too bad "Long Point Home" doesn't seem to exist anymore, not even on the internet :(
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It seems pretty fast to have a death, lay them out and transport the body to Quebec and register them at some point in between :-\
Were all deaths registered in those days or did some of them slip through the net?
Sorry it's taking me ages to type this as my ancient laptop is going into freefall (i.e. hanging! )
Gadget
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Well if it's the closer Long Point, it would be more feasible.
Of course Long Point Home might not even be in a place called Long Point.
But...the cem records are pretty reliable, I think.
I have no idea if all deaths were registered. In Ontario since they had civil registration, I would have thought so...especially in some sort of nursing home.
I'm not even sure if finding Annie would add anything...it's just that since I can't find William, I thought finding her would be a clue. But looking at a page with some other names in the Ont registry, there's one space for Informant which could be the doctor. There's no space where a family member is supposed to be listed.
This William is driving me buggy :P
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Ontario death registrations vary. Some forms had spaces for parents names to be filled in (of course this might or might not be complied with) while others had a space for name, cause of death etc. but nohting useful to trace lineage. Some records have probably been lost or were so illegible that they couldn't be transcribed. I have a death in 1917 that I have never been able to find and the family was compliant with filling in paperwork as deaths before and after were registered. Sometimes things go missing.
Since the parish record states she died in Montreal the day before her burial under Paterson either the cemetery has mistranscribed data or the parish has and you have to decide which to believe.
Debbie
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Right...you'd think they could find a nursing home a bit closer to Montreal, wouldn't you?
Thanks Debbie.
Cheers,
China
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I just emailed the cem to ask if there might be an error...we'll see what they say.
Cheers,
China
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Hi China
Have you actually checked the Quebec death records? As you say the St Giles PR states she died at Montreal and was buried the next day. This entry was also witnessed by Wm Paterson. I know this differs from the cemetery records but it's still worth checking out.
Andy
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Hi Andy, yes of course...the PR record is the Quebec death record, there was no civil registration in Quebec until I think 1996. The PR is all there is. And there's no uniformity in the Protestant records, the minister could write as much or as little as he wanted :P
Thanks though :)
Cheers,
China
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Are John Patterson and Catherine Soutar the names of the parents you suspect are William's? Have you found them on the 1851 census in Dundee? I'm not related. I just saw their names in an IGI entry for the birth of an Elizabeth Patterson and there is a 1851 census entry in Dundee that seems to match the family that I think is yours in the 1861 census in Dundee. On the 1851 census there is a Elizabeth Soutar and Archibald Soutar in the same household.
Jacquie
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Yep, that's them.
John had died by the 1861 though, and I can't find a death. He was a seaman and Gadget says if he was lost at sea it's anybody's guess if it would be registered, or where.
William was in the household in 1851 & 1861 but had disappeared by 1871, and didn't arrive in Canada till 72. I wonder what he was doing, and where... :)
Cheers,
China
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I think what Gadget said was that he could be listed in the GRO Marine deaths or in the Minor Records deaths or in a particular reg district on SP (post 1855) or elsewhere if he died outside of British waters, but if he was 'missing, presumed drowned', then that would be an added complication :-\
So far, I've not found him. See:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,357383.0.html
Gadget :)
Added - I see you've got William's marriage though, China :D
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Possibility for William in the 1871 Scottish census lodging in Airdrie, Lanarkshire and working as a roller. Date of birth is off. Shows 1853 but place of birth Dundee.
Debbie
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China
Did you do anything about this:
China -
I've found what might be a John Patersen death in the GRO Marine Deaths Index 1855 - 1860. It's page 371. The writing is appalling so can't quite make out what the surname should be ::) Not sure how you can find out more. I assume you'd have to contact the GRO:
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Gadget
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Hi Debbie, I'd seen that, yes...it could be him. We'll never know, I guess...
Hi gadget...I did try to order the cert but didn't get far. Without a year it's not possible, and I can't even find the Marine Deaths index. Got a link?? :P
Cheers,
China
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You can search the GRO Marine Index at FindMyPast to get the details needed. It's in the Deaths at sea 1854-1890 database of the BMD section. Here's a link to the website (it's a pay site):
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/
Jacquie
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Ah. Thanks Jacquie...I don't have FindMyPast at the moment. I only bought a month's worth of Ancestry as it was... :P
Cheers,
China
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You have to get to the Deaths Overseeas rather than Deaths at Sea
Then select GRO Marine Indices 1855-1860 from the list
Full listing comes up as:
GRO Marine Indices (1846-1902) 1855-1860 (It's a Free to search list!)
A person who might me Patersen, John Page 371 comes up.
It might also be Petehen or Petshen or Patelen but these aren't surnames. It's worth having a look or getting GRO to check.
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget, i'll try it tonight...I have stuff to do today.
But....I just heard from the gal at the cemetery, and she said the burial card actually says "Longue Point". She assumed that was in Ontario.
I looked Longue Point up and guess where it is...Longue-Pointe is right in Montreal, near the Lafontaine Tunnel if you're familiar with Montreal. It's about 10 miles from Verdun where the Paterson family lived.
That makes a whole lot more sense!!!
Thanks for helping, everybody :)
Cheers,
China
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Just found a reference to the Longue Pointe Home for Incurables. So, a hospice, I guess :(
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On second look it would seem to be the St Jean de Dieu Asylum for the Incurably Insane. Imagine being walled up in a place like that, no matter how sympathetic and caring the staff (nuns, in this case)... :(
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Just fixing this in case someone else is searching for the Longue Pointe Home. It is NOT the St jean de Dieu asylum. It is the Moore Convalescent Home in Longue Pointe, Montreal. There is some information on it here:
http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/hospitals/search/arch.php?id=630
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Yep.
I just found the county Long Point is in...Norfolk.
But.................looking at the PR again, it says she died in Montreal. I'm not too bothered about that, because the Cemetery record says:
Annie Paterson
Born in Scotland
Died: May 21st, 1896
Age 44 Years Old
Place of Death: Long Point Home, Ontario
Last Residence: Long Point Home, Ontario
So, it's fairly clear that she died in Ontario.
Here's the problem: Long Point is a very long way from Montreal. The last time I drove from Montral to Toronto, it was five hours at the speed limit of 100kph (okay, maaaybe just a little bit over ;D).
Long Point is a good hour beyond that. At 100kph.
But the PR says she was buried the day after she died...on May 22, 1896.
Something's off, but I don't know if I should worry about it.
But as I'm getting nowhere, I suppose it's moot :(