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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: Colin Y on Tuesday 26 January 10 18:38 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I am trying to resolve the origins and parentage of a man named Henry (aka Henery) Newson who I have been led to believe was born 20 July 1791.
As has been stated elsewhere on this site Henry was said on the 1861 Census to have been 'aged 72, Widower, former Mariner, born Orford, Sfk.' This matches in terms of dates/age because his birthday was in July and the census was taken on 7th April 1861 - 3 months before his 73rd birthday.
From there the data is confusing and there are several candidates for this Henry's father including yet another Henry or an Ezra.
Does any kind Rootschatter have access to Orford registers of about that time or of Woodbridge where he may be the Henry who was baptised there on 20 Sep 1794.
Its all very confusing but this family, as mentioned elsewhere are full of intrigue in later years too!
Any thoughts would be most welcome.
Thanks in anticipation... ;-)
Colin
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Hi Colin
There is a tree of ancestry which includes lots of dates and you appear to be 4 years out. Henry Newson is shown as born 20/7/1787, bp.14/9/1787 Orford, bur.11/1/1873 St. Peter and St. Pauls, Felixstowe.
He married Jane Passiful 4/7/1810 Felixstowe and had 11 children at Felixstowe between 1810-1827 (baptism dates included).
He is shown as the son of Henry Newson bp.6/1/1761 Aldeburgh, Suffolk and Mary Robinson who married at Orford 11/7/1787. His siblings were:
Elizabeth b.5/11/1788, bp. 17/1/1789 (d. 1789-1792)
Elizabeth bp.5/2/1792
Thomas b.15/3/1794, bp.22/7/1794
Sarah bp.25/6/1797
Robert b.15/7/1798, bp.11/11/1798
Mary b.11/11/1802 - baptised Orford
Annette
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Annette,
Thanks. I am not an Ancestry subscriber these days and must admit to having had some incorrect data from that source in th past but Henry & Mary Robinson are and were my favourites.
I appreciate and thank you for the corrected dates - does the A tree cite the sources for these by any chance?
Interestingly that leads tis Newson family origins further up the coast and seems to connect this family with the Newsons of Leiston, associated with Elizabeth, named for her Newson grandmother, who was born to the Garretts and who subsequently married a Mr Anderson to become famous as the first lady Doctor!
Again thanks sincereley for your help.
Colin
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Colin
Henry bp.6/1/1761 Aldeburgh is shown as the son of William Newson and Sarah Bowter (of Huntingfield) married at Leiston in 1752. Siblings were:
Sarah bp.12/4/1754 Huntingfield
Elizabeth bp.7/2/1756 Aldeburgh
Sarah bp.1/1/1758 Aldeburgh
Mary bp.28/9/1759 Aldeburgh, bur.Dec.1759
William Newson bp.7/4/1726 Leiston, son of Isaac Newton and Mary Butcher who married 18/7/1721 Denham - siblings being:
Isaac bp.11/3/1722 Denham, bur.1728 Leiston
Alice bp.7/4/1724 Leiston
There are no sources named - however, since most events are not on IGI, nor is there another such tree on A..y that they could have copied, it looks like the submitter has done some pretty good research as there are dates for everything which is pretty rare.
Annette
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Slip of the finger - Isaac Newton should of course be Isaac Newson!
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Hi Annette,
Again thanks for all that.
I am chuffed to see that someone else has drawn the same conclusions from available sources as I did myself i.e. the origins of this family at or around Leiston.
I certainly hadnt found all the detail they had found that you so kindly passd on but my cousins in NZ will be delighted to get this confirmation that they appear to be related to that notable lady Dr Elizabeth Garrett Anderson, as well as an already established connection to a world famous comedian with a bowler hat and cane ;-)
I will today slot all this in with my skeletal data and that I am able to is down to your kind help and generous help, for which again, many thanks
Colin
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Annette
May I seek your kindness, once more, please?
You told me that the other tree said "He married Jane Passiful 4/7/1810 Felixstowe and had 11 children at Felixstowe between 1810-1827 (baptism dates included)."
I have 8 children of his children only and wonder who I am missing!
Mine are:
Henry NEWSON Jun
| b. 10 Aug 1810, Felixstowe, Suffolk, England
| d. Mar 1871
| James NEWSON
| b. 13 Sep 1811, Felixstowe, Suffolk, England
| Jane NEWSON
| b. 1813, Felixstowe, Suffolk, England
| John NEWSON
| b. 1818, Felixstowe, Suffolk, England
| d. Dec 1891, Woodbridge, Suffolk, England
| Thomas NEWSON*
| b. abt 1816, Felixstowe, Suffolk, England
| d. 1895, Felixstowe, Suffolk, England
| William NEWSON*
| b. 1820, Felixstowe, Suffolk, England
| d. 1898, Suffolk
| Robert NEWSON
| b. 1821, Felixstowe, Suffolk, England
| d. 12 Jul 1821
| Elizabeth NEWSON
| b. abt 1827, Felixstowe, Suffolk, England
| d. 19 Jul 1827
I have a vaste database of newsons from all over Suffolk from my own trawling so I may have them but not have the link. I also have the above childrens marriages (3 for Thomas!) and many offspring of whom Henry Junior's are the most interesting for my cousins.
Can you tell me who the 3 are that I am missing of Henry Senior's 11 children, please?
Sorry! You may have seen elsewhere that we have started to conclude that we may need to resort to some DNA testing to be clear whether they are truly 'Newsons' or as seems increasingly possible, Watts! Thus the need to gather as many of the true links as possible to find true Newson Y DNA to compare with Watts Y DNA.
Your help is thus already invaluable and as said very much appreciated.
Colin
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If you are collecting Newson names in Suffolk, you will find a few here and I guarantee you won't have these, or at least their birth dates? good luck.
http://sites.google.com/site/tunstallbaptistchurchrecords/home
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If Elizabeth Garrett Anderson is in this family tree, then so are the Garrett's of Leiston engineering dynasty plus Elizabeth's amazing sister Millicent Fawcett (who had she cleverly kept her maiden name too might be more widely recognised).
A great read on the family to be found in 'The Pioneering Garretts - breaking the barriers for women' by Jenifer Glynn.
Pat ...
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THANKS TERRY, YES, I AM AND ILL HAVE A LOOK ;-)
COLIN
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Pat
Well, she is and... she isnt!
I know that the Newsons that I am working on came from Leiston and around but its not an uncommon name around thre and I have several candidates to be Elizabeth Newson's Dad Henry & Mum also Elizabeth. Some of them are definitely part of my tree... others.. ca'nt say!
Colin
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There was also a branch of the Leiston Garrett family that moved to Derbyshire Colin,
John Fisher Garrett 1806 - 1878 was married to yet another Elizabeth (d 1853) and they had three children.
His second wife Mary (d 1872) had four children and one of their grandchildren was the actor Nigel Hawthorne (who played Sir Humphrey in Yes, Minister with Paul Eddington who lived in our village).
Pat ...
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Thanks for that, Ill note it in that Garretts record but its the Newsons I am i to for family in NZ!
Again thanks
Colin
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Colin
Having been notified today of further replies on this thread discovered that you'd asked me about the 3 children missing from the list that you had. For some reason I had not seen this until now and I humbly apologise.
If you still need the details they are:
Elizabeth bp.21/7/1815 Felixstowe (doesn't state which church) who must have died.
Robert bp.2/7/1822 Felixstowe
James bp.17/4/1825 Felixstowe
Annette
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Colin wrote
but its the Newsons I am i to for family in NZ!
Doh!
Of course it is - sorry got a bit carried away, it's the exitement of the Olympics, it's gone to the brain ::)
Pat ...
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Terry,
Many thanks for the link to the records of Tunstall Baptist Chapel. Through it I have found several dates of birth that were missing from my files in the LING, MILLER, BENHAM & KNIGHTS families.
Your help is much appreciated.
Kevin Scott
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Your very welcome Kevin,
Thanks for your feedback, it's useful.
Do your Knights connections go as far as Chillisford? I have them in my line.
Ling is a common name in this part of Suffolk (check them out on the Blaxhall Archive site and in Geo. Ewart Evens Book,"Ask the Fellows who Cut the Hay". I live in France and across the valley within eyeshot is a Ling from Blaxhall area, small world!
Terry
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The KNIGHTS I have are those listed in Campsey Ash, children of James KNIGHTS & Letitia LING, so I have no knowledge of those in Chillesford. Perhaps that is where James originated?
I am very familiar with the work of the Blaxhall Archive Group and have provided some LING research for them as acknowledged on their website. I have made a particular study of the Suffolk LING families over several years.
I am delighted to see the Tunstall Baptist records available, as not only have they filled in gaps in my research, but the church is special to me as I have had the privilege of being able to conduct services there several times in the past.
Thanks again for all your hard work
Kevin
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Well Kevin,
You are just the man to explain to me the expressions within the records that I'm not at all sure of, these are Separated; Removed & Dismissed, if you are able to sort these for me, I will post it on the site.
Thanks Terry
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One of my Newsons married a Kate Knights in Suffolk?
Colin
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Terry,
Tunstall Baptist Church is a member of the Association of Grace Baptist Churches East Anglia. Until about 25 years ago this group of churches was known as the Suffolk & Norfolk Association of Strict Baptist Churches. "Strict" did not refer to the character of the members (!) but signified that the churches practiced "reSTRICTed" communion, ie. only baptised believers were able to partake of the communion or "Lord's Supper".
http://www.grace-ea.org.uk/
Membershipship of individual churches was (and still is) for believers in Jesus Christ who have demonstrated their faith by being baptised by full immersion in water.
I will try my best to explain the terms you mention on the membership list as best as I understand them.
"Dismissed" This is used where a member has moved away from the locality and started attending another church of like faith and practice. eg. "Eliza CATCHPOLE dismissed to Grundisburgh 28 June 1846". This was done by what is now referred to as a "transfer of membership". An example of someone moving the other way to Tunstall is seen in the case of Diana & William WADE who were "received by letter (of recommendation) from Otley Church". This is still practiced and a couple of years ago upon my move into Ipswich, my own membership was transferred to a church there, by a letter of recommendation from my previous church.
"Separated" This term is often followed by the words "for non attendance" in the membership list. This would usually refer to someone who has voluntarily "separated" themselves from the church by no longer attending. This could be that they had moved away and not requested a transfer of membership, but more likely that they just stopped attending for a variety of reasons.
However, it is also used where a person has had their membership of the church withdrawn as in the case of Mary CRACKNELL who was "separated for misconduct" on 5 August 1838. I wonder whatever she did?!!
"Removed" This term appears to be used sometimes in the same situations as "Dismissed" and "Separated". For example John SMITH of Sudbourne was "Removed to London" on 1 Apr 1838. I would understand that he found work in London and joined another church there. Other times it could refer to someone who had their name "removed" from the membership list for non-attendance or misconduct.
So, not terribly straightforward as the terms were often used interchangeably, but I hope that it has helped a little in understanding the membership list.
Colin,
I apologise for hijacking your original post by diverting away from your request, but I hope you too have found some interesting information on Terry's website.
I have checked my database and the only Kate KNIGHTS I have, was actually Katie Jane KNIGHTS, born c.1879 in Campsey Ash, the daughter of Samuel KNIGHTS & Hannah Elizabeth SMITH. However, I do not have a marriage listed for her.
Regards,
Kevin
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Great Stuff Kevin,
Certainly a bit clearer (I think) it was the interchangeability of the terms in these records that was throwing me, especially as I could not find the terms in other Baptist sites. I will now post your reply on the site with accreditation to
yourself. Please check it out and let me know if you are unhappy with anything.
thanks again
Terry
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Kevin
My Knights are all in Nacton. Any interest?
Colin
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Hi Colin,
No, I regret that I don't know of any connection.
Regards,
Kevin
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Keith,
Thats no problem, I am already somewhat distant in family terms - The Newsons/Watts/Passifuls are the family of my great grandfather's sister's great grandaughter's husband!
Colin
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Read emails between you and Annette re: Henry Newson/Mary Robinson. You described them as fun and intriguing to research. Would you be willing to share some details?
My Family Tree
My 3 x gt grandparents:
Henry Newson, bapt. Aldeburgh, St. Peter and St. Paul, Suffolk, Jan. 6, 1761
(s/o Wm. and Sarah Newson).
Mary Robinson, bapt. Orford, St. Bartholomew, Suffolk, Jul. 3, 1763
(d/o John and Mary Robinson)
Henry N. married Mary R. Jul. 11, 1787 at Orford Suffolk.
Henry Newson died Feb. 25, 1840 at Orford, 81 yrs (Source: Cert. of Death GRO)
Their dau. Mary (Ann) born Feb. 3, 1800, bapt. Dec 5, 1802 at Orford, St. Bartholomew
Mary Ann Newson Marital History
Marriage No. 1: Mary Ann wed James Hook Aug. 25, 1822 at St George the Martyr, Southwark
(Source: GLRO entry #547)
1841 Census, Clapham, Surrey – Head: James Hook (40 yrs), Wife: Mary Hook (40 yrs)
James d. 1848 age 47 yrs (Source: GRO Cert. entry of Death #490)
Marriage No. 2: The widow, Mary Ann wed James Potter Dec 27, 1849, Parish Church, Battersea. Father’s occupation: “Officer”; Witness: Esther Hook her dau. (GRO Cert. of Marriage, No. 435)
1851 Census, Lachmere, Battersea – Head: James Potter (24 yrs), Wife: Mary Ann Hook (“43 yrs”) born Orford, Suffolk. Newson Hook, Step Son, age 10 yrs, born Clapham, Surrey. I think Mary is fibbing here! Reason much younger husband.
Questions raised:
1) What type of “Officer” was Mary’s father, Henry?
2) How do I find her actual death date with the discrepancy in her age on the 1851 Census? She should be 50.
3) Under what surname was she buried: Newson, Hook or Potter? We ruled out Mary Ann Newson, Kingston upon Thames, Sept 17, 1890, age 89 yrs.
Re: Officer
I have military records for 3 of Mary Ann and James Hook’s sons. Two were 13th Light Dragoons and one was 58 Regt. Of Foot. This could point to a family tradition of military service.
Research fails to find any military record for Henry Newson. Some correspondents have suggested a Custom’s Official, Coastal Guard, Prison Guard, a militia? Some suggested he may have enlisted in the service of a foreign army?
As you say, very intriguing. Perhaps your research can fill in some of the blank
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Hello
I hope this may help in some way:
My Newson Family is almost certainly connected with yours but I fear the link may be difficult to find.
The overall family were all born raised lived and died in Leiston - Orford - Aldeburgh - Felixstowe Ferry - Woodbridge.
Many of the men started out as sailors on smallish coastal sailing boats delivering goods and people near and far along the coast and up to Woodbridge.
Some joined the Navy and went to Australia and New Zealand (some even jumped ship and tried to disappear. None made Officer rate in the Navy but a good number became "Coastguards and officers of the Excise' watching out for smugglers and affording a rudimentary life saving people, occasionally succumbing to the vagaries of the sea themselves.
Family naming conventions are interesting:
Your Mary Anne's parents were Henry & Mary as you say:
- that Henrys parents were William Newson b abt 1710 Middleton Suffolk and Sarah Bowler b art 1730 at Huntingfield Suffolk - they wed in Leiston 1751 children Elizabeth Jane* b 1756 Aldeburgh, Maria b 1759 Aldeburgh
Mary Anne's siblings were (I think...?)
Henry (Senior [Orford] b 1787
Elizabeth b 1788 - died in Childhood
Elizabeth b 1792 - died Woodbridge 1844(?)
Thomas b 1794 - soldier, 18115-1824, 63 Rgt Foot, Discharged aged 30 RH Chelsea
Sarah b bef. 1797
Robert b 15 Jul 1798
Mary Ann b 3 Feb 1800
Robert b 1807 = Annie Charlotte Parker children: Mary A 1831 Shawbury Essex, Henry 1836 born Sussex, Robert T 1839 (born Pett Sussex)
Robert was a Coastguard Officer
My Newsons
Henry b abt 1790, d 1849 Woodbridge = Jane Passiful b 1792 Felixstowe
children: all born at Felixstowe Ferry in Suffolk at the mouth of the River Debby - they variously ran the pub and the ferry and provided guidance to shipping wanting to go upriver as Coastguards/Excise Officers
Henry Jun b 10 aug 1810 d Mar 1871 *** THIS MAN was the father of my Mystery Man
James P b 1811
Jane b 1813
Elizabeth b 1815
John Thomas b 1818 d Woodbridge Dec 1891
Thomas b 1819 d Felixstowe 1895
William b 1820 d 1898
Robert b 1822 d 12 jul 1821
Elizabeth b abt 1827, d 19 jul 1827
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Hi all, I Know these posts are rather old... but I'm also down from the Newson line....
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Hi Colin, I received your message but I'm unable to reply back until I've made at least 3 posts if im correct.
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so here is the 3rd lol