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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: FlowerBD20 on Saturday 30 January 10 14:58 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone know this address? Street or house name? On the chapel, church and census records as the abode/dwelling of my 3x greatgrandfather John Evans (quarryman) 1806/7 and his descendants.
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a search for this name as an address on the 1841 census gives these results
street-----parish--registration district---county
Bodlondeb Caerhun Conway Caernarvonshire
Bodlondeb Eglwys Fach Llanrwst Union Denbighshire
Bodlondeb Llandrillo-Yn-Rhos Conway Denbighshire
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In 1841 John Evans was living at Bodlondeb Trefriw. Does that info imply it is a house name and NOT a street?
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If you give us a little more information about the family, i.e. names, dates, birthplace etc, we might be able to look at the censuses and work it out from there.
My inclination would be that it is a house name, as it is often used as such, the literal translation being "satisfaction" or "contentment".
Tecwyn.
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Have just found your family in 1841 census; Bodlondeb's almost certainly a house name as all the others around it are different.
Note that the house next door but one is called "Ty'n y Fynwent", which translates as "House in/by the graveyard". I don't know where the church is in Trefriw and cannot find a photo of it on Genuki, but I'd guess that Bodlondeb is, or was, somewhere nearby.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CAE/Trefriw/ has some interesting links.
Tecwyn.
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Thankyou for helping me again! I knew the lovely translation of Bodlondeb but the house next door gives a clue that I will follow up. Anyone out there know if there is or was a Bodlondeb near to a graveyard in Trefriw?
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Hi
I live in Trefriw and have been doing a bit of searching for you. I have in my possesion a copy of the Sale of Gwydyr Estates 1896. In here it says that in 1896 that Bodlondeb came under LOT 159. The following is what is written about it:
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LOT 159
BODLONDEB
The well secured Freehold Ground Rent of S13 per annum upon the Villa, Garden, and Premises known as "Bodlondeb" in the Village and Parish of Trefriw.
Held on lease granted to Mr. David Evans, with reversion to the rack rent of the property in May, 1938.
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This place has now been split into 3 houses which are now called Hillcrest 1 and 2, and Casita. If you do a search on Google for 2 Hill Crest, Trefriw it looks like the house was up for sale a couple of years ago.
Hope this helps
Haydn
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Hi Haydn, Thankyou SO much, that was fantastic!! So not a tiny cottage then, I underestimated tha family income because John and Mary Evans appear to have no gravestones in St Mary's even though they are in the burial register there. David Evans was their son and he is on the census after their deaths as the head of household. Wow! I'm gobsmacked that you would do that research for me! Thanks again, Flower.
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Hi Flower
No problem at all. I am always happy to help. When you say there is no Gravestone for them at St Mary's Church, could they not be buried in the public Graveyard up on Cowlyd road?
When did they die?
Don't hold me to this but I think that graveyard opened up in the late 1880's. Probably when the St Mary's Graveyard filled up.
Haydn
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Hi again, Mary Evans was buried 31 Aug 1842 age 36 (registered Llanrwst district vol 27 p97) and John Evans 23 Feb 1865 age 57(Llanrwst 11b/335). Both are in the register for St Mary's and their address is given as Bodlondeb Trefriw but neither is in the Memorial inscriptions published by Gwynedd FHS. Strange. It's what made me think they must be poor.
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Haydn,
Just to satisfy my curiosity, is the property near the churchyard?
Tecwyn.
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Hi Tecwyn
Well not really. I guess it would be 100 - 200 meters away from the Church yard as the crow fly's. You have Bodaelog flats next door to the place, then Maes Bodaelog estate, then Victoria terrace.
Below Victoria terrace is the Church yard. But saying that I guess when Bodlondeb was built all that was in between them was a field.
Hope this helps
Haydn
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Hi Tecwyn and Haydn, You don't happen to know where Shilling Place used to be in Llanrwst do you? John Evans lived there before he moved to Trefriw.
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I am afraid I can not help you on that one. Sorry :(
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Hi Flower
I think that John Evans is my 3x great grandfather too. Are you able to confirm that his daughter Mary married John Williams?
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Re: Shilling Place.
I'm afraid I can't help either.
Tecwyn :(
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Hi reddkite! Yes Mary married John Williams in 1860. They had to my knowledge 3 children, John 1859, Mary 1860 and Richard 1865. Mary the younger married Richard Evans and they had Mary Ellen 1887, John Richard 1890 and Albert Pritchard 1895. Richard the joiner (1865) married Elizabeth G. (Roberts??) and they had Frederick (I think Grenville?) in 1891. How do you come into the picture? I am descended from Catherine Evans (1829), the eldest daughter of John and my 2x great grandmother.
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Hi Flower
Great! My grandfather was Albert Pritchard. I'll try to reply further this evening when I have more time and more facts to hand.
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Hi reddkite, nice to meet another cousin! I have researched quite a lot if you want any more details though there are also a lot of gaps! Have you managed to get back before John Evans and Mary Williams? I notice on the 1841 she's born out of county?
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Hi Flower,
I think you probably have a lot of info that would interest me, whereas I have relatively little - I started researching only about 2 months ago and it was only a couple of days ago I found out that Mary was an Evans. I went to visit my parents on Saturday and got Dad to open a case of old family papers - and out popped John and Mary's marriage certificate. The date was April 30th 1857 at St. David's Church, Liverpool. John's address was Darby St. and Mary's was Derby St. Their father's names were Richard Wlliams, Quarry man and John Evans, Quarry man. John's occupation was miner. Witnesses were Edward Evans and Margaret Evans. Maybe you can shed light on why they were in Liverpool; it looks to me as if Mary's sister Hannah married John Jones and lived in Liverpool.
My Dad thinks his parents kept in touch slightly with a Liverpool branch of the family and I'm wondering if this is it.
I'm interested in what you say about Richard the joiner, because I didn't know anything about him, but wonder if he is the Uncle Richard that John Richard stayed with at first when he emigrated to Chicago in 1909. I'm rather lacking other candidates.
To fill you in on the lower level a bit, Mary Ellen married Joseph Loxton from South Wales. He was an electrician. It didn't work out and when he lost his job he disappeared back to South Wales. Mary Ellen continued to live in y Wern until her death somewhere around 1950. No children.
John Richard married Nora Bunce from the Bristol area. He came back to Europe with the U.S. forces in WW1. He worked in accounts for a/the Chicago gas company. He returned to Trefriw at least a couple of times. Dad remembers meeting him there in the '50s. He had a daughter Gwen who married three times but had no children.
Albert left Trefriw to join the army and after the war taught in Fulham. He married Ruby Alice Beard whose father was a grocer in Fulham, but originated from Longhope, Forest of Dean. My father was an only child. Albert would have loved to have gone back to Trefriw in retirement, but Ruby wouldn't go. Instead he ended up selling the Wern to Ruby's sister Marjerie and husband Frank White. They lived there until about 1980 I guess. We spent a family holiday with them there in 1965.
Going up to Richard Evans who married Mary Williams: he was the son of Richard Evans of Clawdd Gwyn, Llanrhychwyn, who in turn was the son of Richard Evans of Highgate, Melin y coed, Llanrwst, b1767 but found in the 1841 census. Richard of Clawdd Gwyn married Ellinor Evans, daughter of (wait for it) Richard Evans of Tai uchaf, Llanrhychwyn, b1760 but still around in the 1851 census.
Reminds me of the Monty Pyton sketch where everyone is called Bruce.
Also, Ellinor had a number of siblings and of the 4 where I know who they married, 3 married an Ann and 3 married a Jones.
I have found the Wills of Richard of Tai uchaf and his son Evan, but I'm struggling with the Welsh, -rather unfortunate as most of the other wills seem to be in English.
I have the marriage certificate of Richard and Ellinor.
Otherwise I have just been working from the censuses so far.
I have made contact via Ancestry.co.uk with a descendant of Ellinor's brother Pierce. Pierce had a grandson Pierce Evans (butcher) who my grandfather Albert was good friends with.
My great grandfather Richard Evans ran a building business. He extended the Wern around the turn of the century and also owned the field opposite in the bottom corner of which he built a pair of cotages one of which was for a couple Dad knew as Uncle Edward and Aunt Jennie. These are unusual names at that time so I think I have identified them as Williams. Jennie was a Williams before marrying and links back to the Williams clan of Tai isaf, Llanrhychwyn, as John does.
I hope you have found some of this interesting.
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Hi reddkite,
Thanks for the fascinating details. I've printed them off to study more closely but there are some things I can confirm. Yes Richard did end up in Chicago as I've found him, Elizabeth G and the children on the US census of 1900,1910 and 1920. Frederick Grenville, their oldest popped up on ancestry when I put him in the tree (Foster, Spence, Pedersen if you want to take a look... but there are gaps and errors!) on the US draft registration for both WW1 and 2.
The second thing I can confirm is the Liverpool link. My parents were born on the Wirral and they kept in touch with a lot of family in both Liverpool and Cheshire. Mum was descended from Catherine Evans who married Edward Edwards in Liverpool and they stayed there, bringing up an lot of Edwards!! I didn't know about Hannah being in Liverpool and it is interesting that both Edward and Margaret were witnesses as this means Margaret was still unmarried at that date. (She later marries a John Williams!!!) There was no sign on the census of any contact between Catherine and the rest of her family until two nephews came to stay as adults which is what confirmed the link for me that this was indeed the correct Catherine Evans. Would you like the Evans (children of John and Mary) baptism details?
Will give details as you ask for them so as not to overdo it and not to repeat things you already know. That's all for now, thanks again, I appreciate the information,
Best wishes, Flower.
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Update on the Evans family. If reddkite would like to get in touch again, I've traced Hannah Evans and her family to Dolgellau and can give details from the census.
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Follow this link and it will hopefully take you to a Google Street View of the backside of the Building that was once called Bodlondeb:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=trefriw&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=11.458429,39.506836&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Trefriw,+Gwynedd,+United+Kingdom&ll=53.153014,-3.825361&spn=0.000709,0.002411&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=53.153014,-3.825361&panoid=avc7p-JSxgqxPGwCXgVrvg&cbp=12,63.85,,0,3.55
Haydn
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Dear Haydn, thankyou, that was interesting! Flower
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Update to all this. I have now been toTrefriw, walked around and seen the outside of Bodlondeb! Lovely place. Have also found a reference to David Evans, stonecutter, of Bodlondeb, one of the trustees of the cemetery and a loan for £600 for the land used for the cemetery, dated 1881. So ironic when I can't find his parents gravestone! Would anyone have any references to the setting up of the cemetery?
Have also found members of this family living at Y Wern or Wern Cottage and Bryn Crafnant and Bryn Dyffryn, all in Trefriw. Does anyone know where they are/were?
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I know this is 2 years old but am new to Rootschat. I also am a relative of John Evans - my 3rd great grandfather. My link is with his daughter Hannah who lived for while in Liverpool when first married and then moved to Dolgelly. My great grandmother, her daughter Jane, stayed in Liverpool moving to live on the Wirral and giving birth to my grandad her only child in 1896. Her husband was lost at sea in 1899.
Would love any more info about John Evans or Mary Williams particularly any early history of birth etc. I intend to visit Trefriw soon and see the house.
Thanks PW1
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Hi ther PW1! That's fantastic, another cousin, and the same generation as me. John is my 3x g-grandfather too, and also reddkite's. I will dig out my notes on Hannah and let you know. I went to Dolgellau...love it.. and took photos and searched the graveyard. I have also researched some census material. I can't just remember off the top of my head but I wrote it all down! All the best, Marian
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Thanks for repying so soon. Can't wait to hear any info on family. I went to Dolgelly and also loved it. The Jones family lived by the church and I found their house. Wish I could go back and meet them all.
Pauline
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Hi Pauline, me too! Isn't it weird how we feel that? They probably wouldn't have got on with me at all!!! Anyway, having found my file, here is what I know for sure. There is more but it's guess work so I won't give you that! Starting as far back as I can verify by census and/or birth /baptism/burial records this is what I have;
John Evans born c 1806 Trefriw,Caernarvonshire, died 1865 Bodlondeb, buried 23 Feb 1865 St Mary Trefriw
Mary Williams his wife born out of county c1807, burial 31 Aug 1842 St Mary Trefriw
I can't prove the marriage.
This couple had the following children;
Edward Evans born 29 Apr 1827 Llanrwst
Catherine Evans (my 2x g-grandmother) born 10 Mar 1829 Llanrwst, baptised Tabernacle Llanrwst 15 Mar 1829
Mary born 20 Jan 1831 Llanrwst baptised Tabernacle Llanrwst 24 Jan 1831 (more later)
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The story continued;
Edward Evans born 3 Jan 1833, Trefriw, baptised 18 Jan 1833 Tabernacle Llanrwst
Margret Evans born 8 Jan 1835 Trefriw, baptised 11 Jan 1835 Tabernacle Llanrwst
Hannah Evans born 30 Aug 1836 Trefriw,
David Evans born 1840 Trefriw, occupation stonecutter
Phoebe Evans b 1843 Trefriw
That's enough for now. Will update you another time on the marriages of these children. All the best, Marian
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Thanks again. Will add all this to my research. Did you know that Hannah's husband, John, was killed in an accident at the Glasdir mine in December 1881 when he was caught up in an ore washing machine that he was repairing. He was a joiner. So she was a widow for 30 years. Am still trying to find out more about this and whether she wouild be paid any compensation as she lived in a big house after this. Think a visit to the archives is necessary.
I see you mention Bunbury in your list of towns. We live 4 miles form Bunbury.
Looking forward to more news Pauline
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Hi again, knew that John was a joiner but not how he died. How afwul. I took photos of Llanyfwnwent (I might have got the name wrong!) in Dolgellau but didn't believe they could really have lived there as it looked very posh for a joiner! Also didn't know the bit about the mariner died at sea you mentioned earlier. Meant to say before, did you know John Evans was a quarryman/slatemaker?
It's a small world! The Bunbury line is questionable as I have a Samuel Foster born in Whiston Lancashire (for sure) who may (and only may, I can't prove this) be the son of a William Foster (matches Samuel's marriage cert) born Bunbury/Calvely Ches (on census as Bombay!!) I found a William Foster born there whose father was Samuel so I'm keeping it on the back burner until I can make a positive link. Would you know of a place near there which could be misheard in Lancashire as Worcester City? This also appears on a census return. All the best, Marian
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The only place I can think of is Wistaston or Worleston. Both close to Nantwich.
The mariner was my great grandfather, Thomas Beard who married Hannah's daughter Jane. He was an engineer on board the Merrimac which went down with all hands lost off the coast of Canada. Very sad as my grandfather, Albert was only 3 years old. Jane never got over her loss and never married again.
Do you think John Evans married Mary Williams 10th November 1826 in Llanrhchwyn - this place is very close to Trefriw and the time is right, although Mary would have been pregnant at the time!
Regards Pauline
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Oh that sounds about right. Where did you find that marriage? It wouldn't surprise me if she was expecting....there's a lot of that in my tree!! There's also a possible marriage of a Mary William to John Evans, Denbigh BTs 6 Oct 1827, well after Edward's date of birth so I'm not sure. I have no proof either way. To be honest Llanrhychwyn is more likely. Best wishes, Marian
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Found the marriage on Family Search records and I think it may be the right one. A visit to the church records would give the name of the parents but it is unlikely this church holds any records as it is so small.
Have sent off for their death certifcates- always find them interesting.
Pauline
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I will have a look at FreeReg. Sometimes at this date there are no parents named. M
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Have now received both John and Mary's death certificates. John died of TB but you may know this. Mary is a puzzle as I'm sure it's her but her husband is named as Robert on the death certificate. She died in childbirth and am sure this will be with her daughter Phoebe as she was born in August 1842. The address is Bonlondeb and the age is right (give or take a year) so can't understand the husband's name. His occupation is right so feel this must be an error on the original certificate and wonder if John got someone else to register the death and their name has gone on the certificate instead!
How did you get the date of death and burial? Do you also have the certificates? Regards Pauline
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Hi again Pauline, That's very interesting, although tragic at the time. No I didn't know any of that, I bought the FHS transcriptions of the burial register of St Mary, Trefriw. I don't have the certificates. Did you get yours from the local register office or the national one? I only found out recently that whereas the local ones are taken from the original register, the information was sent to the national office from there and so can be subject to the kind of errors that creep in when people try to copy things. I also bought the monumental inscriptions of St Mary's and they don't appear to have a gravestone which seems ironic when John worked with slate! All the best, Marian
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Just a thought but have you tried looking for a grave up at St Rhychwyn Church in Llanrhychwyn or maybe in the Public Cemetery in Trefriw? I took pictures at both these sites last year and uploaded them to the website billiongraves.com. The pictures are not of the best quality I am afraid. But they may give you a few leads. They should all be indexed by now. So you will be able to search for names pretty quickly. Hope it helps
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Thanks for that. I want to visit the area soon as it is not too far from here. I sent for the certificates from the GRO so there could be a problem with transcription. I am certain it is Mary. Will look up that website. Thanks for your help. Will let you know any further news. Pauline
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Hi Red Dragon and Pauline, Would people in the burial register for St Mary's Trefriw actually be buried at Llanrhychwyn then? I had assumed the two registers would be kept separate? Marian
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Hi Marian
I am trying to cast my mind back to a few years ago when I saw the original registers in the Archives. If memory serves me right I am pretty sure that Llanrhychwyn and Trefriw where in the same book. But do not hold me to that.
Haydn
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Hi again Haydn, It's just that both John and Mary Evans of Bodlondeb are definitely in the St Mary Trefriw burial register but neither of them have an MI there. I originally assumed that they were too poor but that now seems unlikely given the stuff I've gathered on the family they seem to have been reasonably well-off. I have no idea what a slatemaker/quarryman of that era would've earned but there was also an extended family who all seem to have had jobs such as blacksmith, quarrymen, joiners. Marian
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Hi Marian
My family lines seemed to be super glued to Trefriw. I think I must have about 20 odd people that are in the Burial Registers in St Mary's Church, but have probably only found about 10 M.I.'s for them.
Remember the churchyard is pretty old. I think it is probably close to 100 years since the last burial there. A lot of Gravestones have worn away and maybe even some have fallen over and are buried under years worth of grass.
I am afraid I have not read completely through this thread so sorry if I am repeating questions here but can I ask when your William and Mary Evans where buried? and how old where they? I have quite a few M.I.'s for the local area. You never know maybe I can turn something up for you.
Haydn
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Thanks Haydn, Mary Evans was buried St Mary Trefriw 31 Aug 1842 age 36y abode Bodlondeb, John Evans 23 Feb 1865 age 57 same abode, and the offering at his burial was 16s 4d !!! I hadn't twigged until you said but of course a lot can happen to gravestones in all that time they may have had one once. Marian
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Hi Marian
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I have had a look at the nearby cemetery info that I have but have turned up nothing I am afraid. My best guess is they are buried at St Mary Church, but 1. They never had a headstone or 2. The headstone has weathered away or been destroyed.
Sorry
Haydn
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Hi Haydn, thanks for looking, yes I think that must be the answer. Never mind, we have lots of bits of information about them and even a possible marriage turned up at Llanrhychwyn by PW1 which I didn't see before. Thanks again, Marian
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Hi Marian, Pauline,
Back at last! I've recently visited Trefriw and have some interesting finds.
Firstly, I found the MI for Mary in the churchyard. I think someone must have been doing some tidying up recently - it was on top of a collapsed mausoleum-style memorial not far from the path on the lefhand side. It is next to one of a similar style for William and Catherine Evans, and if my theories are correct, William is a brother of John (more of that later). The inscription looks as if it was on the end rather than the top.
I've also looked out some family photos and have one of John Williams and Mary Evans which has scanned quite well from a glass plate. By the look of the pose it dates from their marriage (1857 if I remember right).
If you would like to let me know your email addresses at (*), I will send you some photos.
Regards
Martin
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Hi Martin, Have sent you a PM. Well done on the research, and what's this theory about the brother of John Evans? Am absolutely delighted that there was an MI after all, it seemed so ironic that a slate cutter would not have at least a headstone!
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Trefriw WI recorded the inscriptions on all the graves in Trefriw churchyard, Llanrwchwyn, Ardda and (I think) the cemetery in the 1980s. The results were sent to the county achives, but there is a copy in the church.
Regards
Fran
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Thanks for that Fran, I had bought the local family history society transcription but Mary and John Evans did not appear, although they were in the burial register for St Mary. Reddkite has now sent me a photo of Mary's MI as the graveyard seems to have been cleared and it is now visible. The information on it is very clear and says she is the wife of John, of Bodlondeb. Burial 1842. This matches the burial register. Are you another cousin? M
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I know it's a long time since the last post but I am hoping someone will respond. I am decendant from the Evans line and my family lived in Bodaelog, Trefriw (next to what seems to have been Bodlondeb). I thought Bodaelog had been called Bodlondeb previously?
B
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Update to all this. I have now been toTrefriw, walked around and seen the outside of Bodlondeb! Lovely place. Have also found a reference to David Evans, stonecutter, of Bodlondeb, one of the trustees of the cemetery and a loan for £600 for the land used for the cemetery, dated 1881. So ironic when I can't find his parents gravestone! Would anyone have any references to the setting up of the cemetery?
Have also found members of this family living at Y Wern or Wern Cottage and Bryn Crafnant and Bryn Dyffryn, all in Trefriw. Does anyone know where they are/were?
I know this post is really old now, but burials started in the cemetery in 1880. I have the information about all the burials there up till 2015 - I used to be the Clerk, now retired. It's likely your David Evans was buried in Trefriw churchyard which was in use up to about 1900, as I only have two David Evans and a David William recorded in the cemetery.
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i know this post is old but I too am related to John Evans and Mary Williams. John is my 2x gt grandfather and his daughter Phoebe is my Gt grand mother.
the family lived in Trefriw and only moved in about 1921 when my grand father (Griffith Price) was killed