RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tephra on Monday 01 February 10 12:59 GMT (UK)
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We were on page 20 so here's another thread.
Here's the link to Part One.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433187.0.html
Barbara
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Just to say I'm definitely able to go to the WRSO on Wednesday so will see if there's any personal information in Sidney Herbert's papers on the Female Emancipation Fund. I also checked the Metropolitan Archives catalogue to see if any of the girls' applications had been retained there but couldn't find anything promising.
I'm not sure about apprenticeships - the papers I saw talked about mothers teaching daughters and older sisters the younger ones, but I suppose it depends what level of needlework we're talking about.
I did find one Elizabeth Davis in the 1841 census of the right age, living with her mother Elizabeth who was a dressmaker., but there must have been quite a few who fitted the bill in the parishes that acted as 'feeders' for the main organisation. Will post back when I know any more.
Good luck with the 1841, Gadget ;D
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;D
I should be back "scavengering" later today ;)
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Thank You Barbara. :D
I guess a recap would be helpful.
Elizabeth Ann BALFOUR DAVIS - ENNIS.
She led an exciting life to say the least. Her story has everything for a historical novel.
At age 21 she took herself by the boot-straps and sailed across vast distances, at one time becalmed for 16 days on an equatorial sea. Watched over by a tyrannical Matron, at the mercy of an unscrupulous captain and a sadistic doctor.
Not unassuming by any means, she was one of several women who had the captain charged with assault and wrote letters to the newspapers with scathing comments on the reporters, editors and local society in general.
She then set herself up as a dressmaker in Auckland advertising herself ready to make anything the local ladies might require.
After marrying and bearing four children, she for some reason took a dislike to her husband and Auckland society so migrated again, with the four children, an eight year old – a five year old – a three year old – a two year old and another on the way, to Australia.
My G-G-Grandfather finally caught up with her and carted her off to the goldfields where she had two more children while still working as a dressmaker.
She can’t have been an easy lady to live with however, because G-G-Grandfather divorced her in 1880. Mind you, there was a co-respondent in the case, so she probably wasn’t lonely.
Unfortunately I lost her at this stage, so her story remains unfinished.
****
I can see Nichole Kidman in the part.
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More;
Born 23 Feb. 1831, London? Parents unknown at this time.
Migrated to NZ aboard Stately 1851. Well documented.
Arrived NZ, 1 June, 1851. Age 21, Dressmaker.
Involved in incident re. water for youngest girl. Well documented.
Involved in incident re. singing about the captain and the doctor. Well documented.
Appeared in court in charge against Captain, lost case.
Appeared in court charged with assault of 2nd Mate. Documented – Papers Past.
Letter to Editor, 28 June, 1851. Papers Past.
Married John Innis, Auckland, 25 November, 1851. Parish records – certificate.
Had four children. 1852-1855-1857-1858. Auckland.
Moved to Australia, 1860. Per “Breadalbane” with children.
Had three children. 1860—big gap--1871-1873.
Photos from Hill End, c.1873-5.
Divorced 1880 Newtown. William Larson, co-respondent. No evidence they married.
...and probably more....
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There's this also...
1841 census detail Bath, Somerset.
George Davis 50
Elizabeth Davis 40
Ann Maria Davis 15
Elizabeth Ann Davis 8
Emily Jane Davis 1
Edwd Champion Davis 4 Mo
From Annie.
Baptism 3 June 1831 Lynn, Norfolk Elizabeth Ann Davis parents - Henry and Maria Davis
Name: Elizabeth Ann Davies
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 22 May 1831
Father's Name: John Davies
Mother's Name: Sophia Davies
Parish: St Bartholomew the Great
Borough: City of London
County: London
From Gadget.
Thanks to all the other helpers as well. :D
Leonie,
;D
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Just to say I'm definitely able to go to the WRSO on Wednesday so will see if there's any personal information in Sidney Herbert's papers on the Female Emancipation Fund. I also checked the Metropolitan Archives catalogue to see if any of the girls' applications had been retained there but couldn't find anything promising.
Thanks Angela. :D
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The 1919 death was for Elizabeth BIRD Ennis father Geeorge Paterson Reddie mother Mary Smith aged 44 at Bairnsdale #10294 so rule her out .
Just wondering about the big gap between births of the last 2 children before the divorce. The 1860 was obviously her husbands, but can we be sure that the last 2 1871 and 1873 were his:-\
They may have been the trigger to the divorce if her husband had discovered they were not his or tracked her down to find her with 2 more children which could not have been his.
Pity we don't know her mother's maiden name as she may well have used that as an alias. I assume the co respondent's surname has been checked?
PLease remind me what it was as I have been slowly looking a online cemetry records over tha last few weeks without find any thing but will revisit some as I hadn't tried INNIS or the co respondents surname :-\
Robyn
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Hi Robyn,
JM found this;
NSW Electoral Roll 1870/1 for district of HARTLEY has a John ENNIS, residence at Sodwalls Creek.
So we know he was with Elizabeth before Emily Louise was born in April 1871.
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I think the surnames; ENNIS, INNIS, INNES are posabilities. I'd even consider EMMS. ;D
Also; DAVIS, DAVIES.
And I think she was always partial to the BALFOUR, so chuck it into the pot as well.
If that's not too much to ask, it should keep you out of mischief. ;D
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Hi there,
Co-respondent : William LARSON ... could be mistranscribed as Carson, Larsen, Larsson, etc and of course as Lawson ;D
Also there's those two wee babies buried at Hillend in late 1860's.... un-marked graves .... could explain some of that time gap too...
Cheers,
JM
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Just to alert you to an uncommon? occurence.
John and 16 yo Elizabeth Lawrence left Ireland for the Hunter River area in NSW in 1840. They had 9 children around the Scone area.The youngest was registered as illegitimite by his father John Lawrence.
It turns out that Elizabeth Lawrence had deserted her husband shortly after they arrived and run off with Robert Fitzgerald who she may have met rrior to leaving home, who promptly too the name John Robert Lawrence.
Two years later Robert John Lawrence married Elizabeth Laurence widow after her first husband had died. They continued to live as Lawrences's until their deaths.
(from Barbara Baynton by Penne Hackforth Jones [penne and I share common gggrandparents not of the above line])
There is guarantee that the JOHN ENNIS with Elizabeth in Sodwell's creek is her husband. Most likley but do not assume it as fact.
Emms is one of my brick walls so I have looked at most of these at some time or another Ennis is also familiar territory with surname but the fellow is still missing!!! NO postitve death or burial after last known documentation in 1832.
Will keep looking.
ta JM
Robyn
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Umm,
Err, short version of story on moi tree.... My John Ennis died in Sydney 1842. He left his estate to his young grandchildren, but they were all surnamed BROWN ;D .......... John Ennis' daughter (b Sydney 1809, d Sydney 1840) had married a John Brown, widower in 1828, (Groom was widowered in June 1827, weeks after youngest child born on the voyage, Plymouth to Sydney). That 1827 baby .......err ......... she was raised as though a grandchild for John Ennis, and she was a major beneficiary in John Ennis' estate ;D, so Moi "ENNIS" line ceases in 1842...
Of course its possible that the father of Elizabeth's two youngest girls was not the same father as the older children, but .... the birth registration for Matilda Alice in 1873 just has to be for Leonie's Elizabeth (online it shows the mother's given names as Elizabeth Annie B). NSW Birth Certificates are meant to show the date and place of the parents' marriage. :D but these were rural births, so I'm not convinced all the details would be on the NSW BDM Reg. Gen's ledgers ::)
Ummmm, LB, do you have Matilda's birth certificate, and if so, does it show date and place for parents' marriage, does that match with your NZ records etc etc and etc... ;D Does it show "previous issue" ;D ;D
Cheers, JM
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John's name is on birth certs for Emily Louise and Martha Alice born June 1873.Also at this time their eldest daughter Constance/Constantia was on the verge of marriage, October 1873. But as you say, never assume. ;D
Also a photograph, a copy of which has been in the family ever since, was taken of Elizabeth & John in 1873-ish. Not positively dated, but 99% sure was taken 1873, before the birth of Martha Alice.
I didn't post that photo, but I can if you like. In fact I will, because then I can get opinions, is Elizabeth pregnant? If so then it was taken in 1873. Also another photograph discovered of Constance entitled Miss Ennis, so before she married. I won't post that one. Not relevent I think.
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Oh dear, sorry JM, yes I do. Didn't I mention that? :-[ ;D
Both certs, for Emily Louise and Martha Alice, have John Ennis as father and marriage 1851, Auckland.
Added; 3 males and 3 females living.
We'll get syncronised in a minute. ;D
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Umm,
Similar dress to photo with Emily Louise ! Does she look pregnant in the photo with Emily Louise? I can't tell as she's seated with the baby on her lap. What month in 1871 was Emily Louise born? Matilda Alice born June 1873 ... ... Re this photo with both John and Elizabeth, could it have been taken late 1872-early 1873 ... ie before her waist would "thicken"... or are there perhaps several "hoops" in her skirt hiding the future Matilda...
Perhaps the photo/deciphering experts at RChat may be able to help ;D
Ta, LB, you probably did mention the info about the father's name and marriage info, but I had not checked back through the old thread ;D
Err.... do you have photos of family gathered for that Oct 1873 wedding for Constantia? If so, err.... what dress was Elizabeth wearing ;D ( I'm a sticky beak, sorry ;D just ignore the question, its not really relevant)
Cheers,
JM
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It's exactly the same dress. ;D She has added the lace jabot for the standing photo.
All the photos were taken the same day, at the A & A photography studio at Hill End.
An original copy of this photo is in the possession of my inconsiderate, none sharing cousin. Not Cyril.
It's also in the Holterman Collection at the Mitchell Library, Sydney, along with the photo with child, Miss Ennis, Miss E.Ennis and a gadzillion other photos of Hill End families. Perported to have been taken by Henry Beaufoy Merlin, who by the way died in 1873. However, he did have others working with him and the studio went on without him.
No wedding photos that I'm aware of. ??? :'( Wouldn't they be a gift. :o :D
Added; just realised, it HAD to be 1873. Any earlier and she wouldn't have had a child that age...any later and Miss Ennis would have been Mrs Gardner.
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I have edding photo from 1885 and it looks just like a formal photgraph. They wore their best dressses not wedding gwons as we know today.
Robyn
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Hi there,
Some "dating" clues for those photos !
The NSW State Library has a current digitisation project for the Holtermann Collection, (3,500 glass plate negatives ) and there's a blog. http://blog.sl.nsw.gov.au/holtermann/index.cfm/2009/5/6/about-this-blog
It seems that the A & A company reached NSW from Victoria in 1870 .. on the blog, the curator for the digitisation project cites the Yass Courier of 18 Feb 1870, and also that Merlin left Bathurst late Dec 1872 for Orange, arriving Christmas 1872. Merlin's plans were to photograph all the colonial towns (see SMH Dec 13, 1872 page 5) .
Of course, as Hill End is North of Bathurst on the way to Gulgong/Mudgee, and as Orange is West of Bathurst and Merlin is associated with Gulgong and the photo used on the first ten dollar note for Australia issued 1966.... errr.... Moi ::) can't figure out exact Month that Merlin (the photographer) was at Hill End, but errrrr (excuse the pun) he was a Wizard photographer ;D
Also, the photo with Mr and Mrs Ennis ... noticing the "flounce" at her hip. Could that be where her experienced Dressmaking skills allowed her to "take in" and "let out" for pregnancies ?
LB, I reckon once that digitisation project is completed, you will find more photos of her in that dress, perhaps with their teenage children ;D
Oh well, back to searching for Elizabeth in around 1880 and later ;D ;D ;D
Cheers, JM.
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Back to the photos, ;D ;D ;D
Merlin has an entry in the Australian Dictionary of Biography... There's clues there about his company A & A photographics etc.
... By the end of March 1872 the company was at Hill End, in a studio built for them on land owned by Holtermann. And the gem of all " . At Hill End on 19 October Merlin, again photographing house-to-house, recorded the unearthing of 'Holtermann's nugget'. " So LB, perhaps the photos were taken at the house where Elizabeth and John lived with their children, ... the props in those photos could be ENNIS furniture ;D
http://adbonline.anu.edu.au/biogs/AS10338b.htm
Well that certainly inspires MOI to try to find more on Elizabeth ;)
Cheers, JM
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I think I've viewed every one of those 3,500 glass negatives JM. :o :o :o ruination of the eyes.
Did you read that the much publicised photo of Holterman with his nugget was one of the first "cut-&-paste" jobs? Yep, Holterman was photographed in the studio and cut from that photo and literally pasted onto the nugget photo. In the studio photo Holterman has his hand on a hat rack. ;D ;D ;D
Merlin was indeed a wizard. ;D
Added; I keep forgetting to ask JM. Did you by any chance have any other John ENNIS before 1842?
Maybe one who was married to a Constance Louisa and living in the Azores about 1830? Didja Huh? :-\
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Yep, a Wizard ;D
I reckon the photos you have put here on these threads were taken about 19 October 1872 at their home in Hill End... now to find a parish map of Hill End circa 1872 ;D hoping for names of the land holders, looking out for a William Larson or similar ;D
Seems to Moi that Merlin did a better job at cut and paste than some public servants in the registrar general's office ::) And he was using the glass negative ....
Cheers,
JM
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Hi,
Parish maps for Hill End only start 1894 ..........
http://www.lands.nsw.gov.au/survey_maps/maps_and_imagery/parish_maps
Cheers,
JM
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...................... there was a co-respondent in the case, so she probably wasn’t lonely.
Unfortunately I lost her at this stage, so her story remains unfinished.
****
I can see Nichole Kidman in the part.
Nah, you want somebody who can act ;D ;D ;D
Great pic Leonie, I don't think she's pregnant though, its just the style of 'dress'.
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Ok, she's not pregnant and I'll rethink who should play her part in the movie.
I agree with 19 October 1872 JM, but not in their own home.
The whole bl**dy population didn't come to afternoon tea and there are at least half of those glass negatives all taken on the same bit of lino. ;D Studio pics, trust me. ;D
I looked at that blog, left a message and saved it to favourites for future ref:
Made me realise tho' that my photo was definitely taken 1872, and the baby is who I thought but Elizabeth isn't pregnant.
Also...I've seen parish maps of that era, well at least a town map of Hill End with owners names. Can't remember where or when.... probably at our library. But I would have only been looking for names I knew. eg. ENNIS, GARDNER or COGDON. Obviously didn't find anything or I'd have made a note somewhere.
You must have missed this;
Added; I keep forgetting to ask JM. Did you by any chance have any other John ENNIS before 1842?
Maybe one who was married to a Constance Louisa and living in the Azores about 1830? Didja Huh?
I added it later. :-\ :-[
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Hi LB,
My John Ennis was ex the Glatton, and I've not gone back further on his line. But births in Portugal : Yep, I've got NSW death rego's showing that Iberian Peninsula was birth place for my first arrival in NSW (he was born Spain during the wars against Napoleon), and on a different line I've a Granny's Great Great Gran who was born in Portugal of British military stock during same war!
But as to my John Ennis .... err I've not concentrated on his background pre his arrival in 1803 on the Glatton. He was tried in 1801 at Chelmsford. He had two children in NSW by two different convict women who were transported on the Speke, and years later he married one of those women in his old age. He was associated with the Wesleyan Methodists in early Sydney.
The closest I get to the Azores could be about 1788 and then its all the way to St Kitts in the Carribbean.
Perhaps I should ask for another scavenger hunt for Moi... and concentrate on my John Ennis ;D Afterall, all my life I have known that my first name is in honour of one of his grandchildren...
Cheers,
JM
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We could do a joint hunt looking for all John ENNISs. ;D
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;D that's a grand idea...
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Time for this weeks Scavenger Hunt and here it is......a hard one, but well worthwhile.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,434782.0.html
Good Luck and Good Hunting
As usual, this Hunt will remain open for any further information which may come in.
Barbara
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I'm glad you like it. ;D
But I'm still no closer to Elizabeth. :-\
I'm still looking tho'.
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;D
We've got stacks of info still to find on your Elizabeth... I'm banking on lots of clues in those records from the NSW State Records Office...
JM
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Time for this weeks Scavenger Hunt and here it is......a hard one, but well worthwhile.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,434782.0.html
Good Luck and Good Hunting
As usual, this Hunt will remain open for any further information which may come in.
Barbara
I didn't know we did commercial breaks. ???
So. I'll just have to wait and see what is revealed by the postman..... :-\
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Anything I can chase up in England? Read all the old papers nothing and I am bored :)
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Hi there,
Another sighting of John ENNIS at Hill End....
Its as a signatory on a petition to the NSW Government. LB, it suggests he was not a great writer, its his X mark. "John X mark Ennis"
Its in the NSW Government Gazette, page 964 published Tuesday 1 April 1873. The Petition had 587 signatories, all supporting the raising of a Municipality to be known as "Borough of Hill End". Reading the Gazette notice carefully it explains that the signatories were all checked by various people, and so I note that next to John Ennis' signature it lists the initials J R F. There's a statement from John Richard FERRIS confirming that he checked "323" signatures on 11 June 1872, and JRF's statement was certified by the Police Magistrate.
That statement gives some info about the qualifications of those signatories. "....such persons are persons liable for assessment for Municipal taxes in respect to property or household residence...."
Umm, well I'm still on the hunt for Elizabeth ;D I'll see if there's any likely candidates for William Larson on that petition ;D
Cheers, JM
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Err....
No sighting on that petition for William Larson.
But....... the signature immediate after John ENNIS' will bring smiles to you .... Its a chap named John JONES. Also I ought to mention that there's females who signed the petition... alas, could not see Elizabeth ....
Oh dear, perhaps the State Records Office have already photocopied the file and its being posted to you today ;D, but mine took a fortnight...
Cheers, JM
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Anything I can chase up in England? Read all the old papers nothing and I am bored :)
Do you have access to Pallot's London Baptismal/marriage Index?
I was going to look there at the library this AM but didn't get time. I have no idea how extensive that is, the library had 1780-1837 for baptisms and 1521-1869 for marriages. I'll try and get back there next week.
JM, I noticed in Papers Past that John ENNIS is on several petitions, can't recall off hand what they were for.
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Bit More,
William LARSON
There's a chap by that name, native of DENMARK, aged 23, arriving on the ship "Star of India", 16 June 1876 His occupation ... SHIPWRIGHT... I'll check to see if he was crew or passenger, back shortly ;D
JM
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Bit More,
He was immigrating, arrival port was Sydney, and he was a Lutheran...
I'll see what else I can find on him ;D
JM
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Umm,
Victoria, Electral Roll 1903
Larson, Eliza Harvy Town, Eaglehawk, home duties
Larson, William, Harvy Town, Eaglehawk, miner.
NO other Larson for Harvy Town, some others with different address but Eaglehawk
Victoria Electoral Roll 1914
SAME info as for 1903 ;D MODIFYING, except his a labourer
Could be I am way off track, but .... fingers crossed in case there's clues there LB
I'll try to find them in later years too...
Cheers,
JM
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Hi there,
I'm no good with records for Victoria, but perhaps a search of cemeteries around Eaglehawk would help. Both names were also on the 1909 roll for that address.
Cheers,
JM
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Sorry to dash your hopes there, JM....but Wm Hy LARSON and Eliza Ann FULLER had 6 children in Eaglehawk between 1902 and 1913.
Dee :(
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Well I can tell you that our city library Family History Section doesn't have the CD with NSW burials. They have 2 with QLD tho'. ;D
The labrarian said as she gave me the set, "I think one of these has a problem, but I can't remember what it was." I soon found out. ::) She's going to return it for a refund.
And another thing...I have a spooky feeling here....I was looking at the Australian Cemeteries website yesterday and clicked on BATHURST. Well it's a long story, but, I kept going round in circles. So finally I clicked on their report button, Bathurst FHS's that is, and sent them an email.
Got a reply when I got home this afternoon asking for details of the problem.
I repeated the excersize, as you do, and got the same run around but ended up with a blank page.
So....(I am getting to the point) ....I wrote the proceedure and sent back an email by return.
Waiting for a reply tomorrow. I just have this spooky feeling that there is something at Bathurst Cemetery that someone doesn't want me to find. ::)
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Hi Dee and LB,
I thought I might have been onto something ........ oh well .... perhaps Bathurst Family History site will have some answers... ;D
Fingers crossed especially for AngelaR to find something at Wiltshire, even without her camera's cable ;D,
Cheers, JM
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She found the cable. ;D I don't know how far she is from Wiltshire RO, but I hope the cable's long enough. :-\
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I just have this spooky feeling that there is something at Bathurst Cemetery that someone doesn't want me to find. ::)
Cue music to Twilight Zone...... :o :o Hope it's the right sort of 'spooky' for you LB.
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Nah, not with my luck. She's playing with me. ::)
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She's elusive ... ;)
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Not too elusive I hope. I reckon I've only got another 30 years or so to find her. Then I'll have to leave all this to me daughter. And she's not too enthusiastic about genealogy.
Now...who do we know who has access to Victorian records? Found an E.B.ENNIS burried 22 Sept. 1919 at Bairnsdale Vic. I know that's a bit late, she would have been 88, but just possably E. B. is Elizabeth Balfour. Grabbing at straws again.
Tomorrow.......
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Nothing very promising on Pallots B or Ms so far, Leonie :-\
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Hope springs eternal as they say. Thanks for looking. :D
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I have never joined one of these scavenger hunts. What is it all about?
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Hi Coombs
If you'd like to look at this thread, it pretty much tells you what goes on
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,358572.0.html
But basically what we do is put somebody's brick wall up each week and a brilliant team of Hunters will endeavour to break it down for you........some times they can, sometimes they can't.......but there's usually a whole heap of information posted which may help you go in another direction.
If you'd like your name on the list, just send me a PM and I'll do it right away.
All the best
Barbara
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Hi
I have sent you a PM Tephra.
Ben
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Ben, I've added your name to the list :D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,358572.msg2742578.html#msg2742578
Barbara
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Little cable and I are now (finally) back home after 'interesting' trip to Wiltshire RO ::)
It looks like the chap who started the Female Emigration Fund at the end of 1849, Sidney Herbert, had seriously lost interest by the end of 1850. Perhaps, as an MP, there was an election coming up in 1850 and he wanted to make a splash..........
Anyway - lots of interesting detail and some case histories about girls who went out on the early ships in 1850 - in fact complete lists of them but nothing much for 1851.
HOWEVER, I did find a mention of Elizabeth in a Visitor's Book they used at the 'Home' where the girls collected prior to departure. Someone wrote brief notes about each girl, just recording Name, Religion, character/skills and the ship they left on. The item was -
Catalogue 2057/F8/IX/1 "Notes on Prospective Emigrants"
ELizth Davis, Independant. Has gained her livelihood as a dressmaker. Outfit partly supplied. New Zealand. Age 21 Ship "Stately" Jan 28 1851
The term "Independant" refers to religious affiliation. Most of the others were Church of England or Baptist. If the age is correct then she was born 1830 (can't remember -was her birthday Jan or Feb? If Feb then born 1829?)
I know this isn't a lot of information but it does mean that, if she was baptised, it was non-conformist.
I looked at the entries for all the other girls on the ship because some of the entries mentioned friends, but there was nothing to link her with anyone.
In terms of looking in the census for 1841, the London parishes that were feeding girls into the system were Westminster, Holborn & Bloomsbury, Whitechapel, Southwark & Lambeth, St Georges in the East, Shadwell.
The report published covering ships going out in 1851 omitted the "Stately" altogether. Very puzzling as to why - all the other ships got a mention....
There was a very frustrating (blank) application form required to be filled in by all the girls and needing parents' names occupations, whether deceased, other family, loads of really good stuff - but where are they? Possibly archived with the feeder parishes records? Checked the Metropolitan Archives catalogue but nothing jumps out.
That's it for now....
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Angela,
How interesting....and at least another snippet for Leonie. What a pity those application forms weren't there. :-\
So....to find Elizabeth Davis in 1841 in one of those parishes.......
Dee :)
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Still looking at incoming passengers UK
Mrs E Davis (no age) arrived London 23 June 1892 on Ophir from Sydney.(alone)
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Hi Tephra
Thanks for adding my name to the list.
Ben
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Hi re the Bairsndale 1919 death I posted it earlier
The 1919 death was for Elizabeth BIRD Ennis father Geeorge Paterson Reddie mother Mary Smith aged 44 at Bairnsdale #10294 so rule her out .
Robyn
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1901 Census UK
Hospital Finchley Middlesex
Elizabeth Davis - 70 -Widow - Where Born - NOT KNOWN!
please please no :'(
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Please pray that she did't revert to Davis ak Davies as to my dismay it is such a common surname to try and find any definite results if you don't already have dates and places!!! :'(
Robyn
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Hi there,
....The report published covering ships going out in 1851 omitted the "Stately" altogether. Very puzzling as to why - all the other ships got a mention....
Perhaps when those reports got back to Sidney Herbert et al in the UK ... about the Captain, Surgeon and Matron on that voyage .. perhaps they were so embarassed that the report never made it to their recordkeeper ;) There was nothing "Stately" about the behaviour of that Captain, Surgeon or Matron .... ::) (err.... tis of course Just Moi Opinion ;D )
Cheers, JM
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What a productive day you've all had. :D
Thanks so much.
Angella I have a link to Independent Baptisms and Marriages, will go look there. Fingers crossed. ;D
Robyn, thanks for that, even negatives help. Saves wasting time in that direction.
Be back shortly.
Leonie.
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Checking out the Elizabeth INNIS who married a Howell in Victoria in 1892 also the Elizabeth Ann Innes who married a Graham in 1898 mainly to rule them out
added1
(both had several children so not her) still to find their deaths
added 2
Not E.A Graham she died 91 in 1965 father was an Innes
Most probably not E Howard possible death but no parents aged 60 1921
Robyn
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OK, Non-Parochial BMDs... http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk
Has several posabilities.
I searched births/baptisms between 1829-1832, figuring she was more likely to put her age up if she didn't have parental concent to migrate.
Also concentrated on London...Kent/Middlesex, figuring her accent would possably give her away to the authorities as well.
And sticking with name Elizabeth, well I would stick with my own name, it's too easy to get caught out if someone yells "Leonie" and I turn to answer if I'd told them me name was Mary.
So, I have 4 Elizabeth DAVIS and 2 Elizabeth DAVIES.
Proplem is, to get full details joining fee of 80 Pounds is required.
So I thought I'd wait and see if anyone has a sub to the site. I'll phone the library, they gave me the link in the first place so if they don't have it the librarian who gave it to me may have it on her home computer. She's a very nice lady, very happy to help and avid genealogist.
Still looking. :D
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Hi there,
Spotted the baptism (but its C of E) for an Elizabeth Ann DAVIS, on 20 May 1832... seems her birth date was 22 April 1832. Baptism was at St Marylebone, Westminster, Middlesex. Her parents names were recorded as Evan DAVIS and Ann DAVIS ;D
I'll keep looking in that area and era for other possibles ;D
LB, don't spend that eighty quid just yet ;D
Cheers, JM
MODIFYING TO ADD, ooooppppppssss there's a street address : 26 Charlton St, and the father's occupation : Servant...
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More, another possibility ;D
1828, Elizabeth Ann DAVIS born 6 December 1828, baptised 28 Dec 1828, daughter of John Ambrose and Fanny. Abode : Unicorn Yard, he a labourer.
baptised at St Olave, Bermondsey, Southwark Middlesex.
More to come...
JM
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1832 birth, and watch for mother's name ;D
Elizabeth Ann, born "22 Oct last" baptised 2 Dec 1832, daughter of Ananias (that's what I read ::) ) Thomas and Eleanor DAVIS . He a Fishmonger. Abode : Stockwell St
Church: St Alfege, Greenwich
More to come ;D
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1834
Elizabeth DAVIS, born 5 May 1834, baptism 5 Oct 1834... at
Father: John George (although the "John" has been scratched out), he a Pewterer (is that like a silversmith, a worker in Pewter)
Mother: Mary Ann
Abode : Stratford Place
Church : St Leonard Shoreditch, Hackney
Cheers, JM
There's also some named Ann Elizabeth DAVIS .... but I haven't checked BALFOUR DAVIS yet ;D
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Umm....
BELFOUR ... actually written as Belfour, with the "u" scratched out ;D ...
Elizabeth Belfour, no birth date, only baptism date 14 Sept 1834. Daughter of James & Elizabeth of St George, Middlesex. He was a mariner. Church was : St Dunstan and All Saints, Tower Hamlets,
Cheers, JM
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I think it might be more like 160 quid in Oz dollars. ;D
I have alway wondered about how exact birth dates really are.
For example; My Mum alway reckoned I was born on a Monday, since she was doing the washing and she ALWAYS did the washing on Mondays. 16.06.1945 was a Saturday, not Monday.
My youngest aunt wanted to marry when she was 18 so need a birth cert and parental consent, got a birth cert. she was born one year earlier. Was only 17. ::) Still got married. ;D
We know what our birthday is because someone told us that's when it is. What if they got it wrong? I mean, right now I can only say my three were born in 1966, 1969 & 1974. I'd have to look in my birthday book for the dates. :-[
So maybe the date Elizabeth gave when she was baptised in 1853 was just a guess. ???
OR the rev John Fred Churton might have stuffed it up...which in fact he did do. It's written as 1853 then has 31 written over the 53. (I did post a copy on the thread somewhere ???)
Will do that bit again anyway.
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Hi there,
Yep, he made a right mess of it ;D
Cheers, JM
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Hope it's cooler down your way JM. Stinking hot here :'( that's perspiration, not tears. ;D
Have dry eyes and a headache...would go lie down but too darn hot.
You've been busy, give it a break, a Kit Kat Tim Tam Break ..... or a nice cool YT. ;D It's OK by me, I don't want my helpers wearing themselves out. :o
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Tis OK, LB,
Been raining and raining... ex Miss Olga...
I think I'm on a bit of a roll .... looky: 1841 BELFOUR, James, 20 (ie +- abt 5 years) a Seaman, and Elizabeth, 20 (seems to be N in column re county for her), and Elizabeth 5, (Y of the county ;D) and Martha 3 (Y ;D)... err.... of course you want the County ;D ... its Griffin St, (or Griffon) Tower Hamlets, St Paul Shadwell.
HO107; 703; 6 (I think ;D )
Cheers, JM (I've been and purchased moi fresh supply of tim tams)
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Have to keep your strength up there. ;D
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::)
I have not found that 1841 family in 1851, but then again, I'm not that familiar with London ;D, and Belfour v Balfour etc .... err .. not as easy as it could be... perhaps Gadget or Ebch would be better at searching for them ;D in 1851 ....
Cheers, JM
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I've looked in all the feeder parishes in Batch Number site, nothing looks exciting...a 'maybe' Elizabeth DAVIS christened 23 Feb 1832, but only a mother...Mary DAVIS. Co37211. Does that mean there was no father? :-\
I'm still looking.
But then again, maybe Elizabeth was Independent religion but maybe christened in conventional church. She wouldn't remember......
I'm still looking. ::)
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LB...
That's the RIGHT day and the RIGHT month ! I think you may have found HER ..........
MODIFYING to add
I'm excited for you ;D ......... nearly choked on a tim tam ;D
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LB...
That's the RIGHT day and the RIGHT month ! I think you may have found HER ..........
:o :o :o :o :o
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No...but she said she was born 23 Feb 1831. How likely would it be to be christened on the same date 12 months later?
I'll just go check if it was a Sunday...most christenings were done after the regular sunday service.
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Hi LB,
I reckon the NZ minister was not paying attention when he was completing that part of the form .... He had to overwrite it, and he needed to write a date that would make her at least "full age" .... so he wrote 1831 .... And so Elizabeth was stuck with that from henceforth ;D
Cheers, JM
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23 Feb 1832 was a Thursday. So they must have done christenings on any day.
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23 Feb 1832 was a Thursday. So they must have done christenings on any day.
Hi Leonie and JM ;D
My understanding is that they did!
I think the Non-conformist BMD definitely deserves to be ruled out but definitely NOT 80 quid. You can buy credits on the site itself - don't know how much because it won't let me log in at the moment. I think it's the genealogist site/route that is 80 pounds..
Added-
Got in now - as I read it, viewing an image is 5 credits and 1 credit is 50p. Perhaps you could ask if someone has a genealogist sub and can check for you?
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Thanks Angela.
There is only one other entry with that batch number with only a mother's name. It's Mary DAVIES, ch. 10 Nov 1834. Mother; Mary DAVIES. I'm not too concerned that it's DAVIES.
Added; Angela, I'll be talking to my librarian friend, she does Saturday at the suburban library I go to on Saturday.
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I know Saturday is only two days away.....
But ......
Um, what do I do if this is it?
Do I put me name down now for a new Scavenger Hunt for Mary DAVIS?
I never thought I'd find Elizabeth....I'm very excited here. ;D ;D ;D
She might even have a little sister. :D
Oh dear, I really do need to find a death to confirm her mother's name....
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I'll put your name down Leonie......you can always change your mind later ;) ;)
Fingers crossed it is her :D
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If I were you, I'd put your name down for a new scavenger hunt, NOW.... and send the full details through when your turn comes around ;D ... if we've sorted Elizabeth, there's always John Ennis...
;D ;D ;D
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Added; Angela, I'll be talking to my librarian friend, she does Saturday at the suburban library I go to on Saturday.
I think it's important to close or confirm that lead since she was definitely stated to be an Independant AND she was baptised in NZ. I know it's perfectly possible that she was baptised in CofE and didn't know but I think we ought to eliminate the non-conformist baptism route first if we can ::) sorry ....
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Done. ;D ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,358572.msg2742578.html#msg2742578
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Don't be sorry Angela, I'll check at the library Saturday. I'm sure our library will have it. If not, our local FH Society will. I can search there for $5 per hour, and they are also very helpful.
It's just a matter of getting all me ducks in a row before I go over there.
Thanks Barbara. You're like the receptionist at the doctor's surgery, "I'll put you down for next month, you can always cancel if you don'y need it." ::)
I'm not finished here yet. I'm not counting me chickens 'til they hatch.
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Leoni Going off at a bit of a tangent.
Is that baptism record the only documentary evidence of Elizabeth's date of birth?
If so I wonder if the vicar got a load of information off her and mixed it up?
What I would try and do is see i you can find anything out about the vicar in particular how old was he?
At that time vicars often wouldn't retire, they would stick it out as long as they could.
I have some PR's where at one point there is a note that the vicar had written the wrong name down for the child, and there is a note that a godparent had agreed this is what had happened.
Not long after is the burial of the vicar, well into his 80s.
So deafness, forgetfullnes, dementia all a possibility.
Mind you if you find out he was a young man then that is out of the window.
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It's all relevant Jaywit. :D
Actually, altho' I don't know his age, John Frederick Churton's daughter's marriage is on the same page as Elizabeth's and John's. :D
Catherine Letitia CHURTON married Charles HEAPHY, on 20th October, 1851. There's another marriage for November and then my GGGrandparents married 25th November, 1851.
The other thing I do know about him...he had shocking hand-writing. :o He did make a mess of that date tho'.
Leonie.
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Moi- James Belfour/Elizabeth Belfour christening 14/9/1834 can be ruled out. He is in 1851 census - now Master Mariner and Elizabeth Balfour still at home.
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Hi,
The Rev'd J F Churton 1797-1853
http://www.historic.org.nz/TheRegister/RegisterSearch/RegisterResults.aspx?RID=563&m=advanced
John Frederick Churton was the first minister of St Paul's, occupying that role for fourteen years. Born in London in 1797, he completed a law degree before taking holy orders. Churton arrived in Wellington in 1840 to take up an appointment as chaplain for the Church of England Society, but within a few months was appointed to Christ Church at Russell in the Bay of Islands (currently the earliest surviving church in New Zealand). Under Governor William Hobson, Churton became colonial chaplain, also serving as the first minister of St Paul's after the foundation of Auckland as colonial capital. He ministered to the imperial troops stationed in New Zealand, hospital patients and prisoners. He died in January 1853, at which time the New Zealander reported that: 'the death of Mr. Churton cannot be regarded as less than a calamity.'
There's a fuller article ;D Looking very good for Jaywit's theory ! :D Thanks Ebch for checking that Belfour reference out ;D
I reckon Leonie will be at the head of the queue tomorrow at the front door of that Library ::)
Cheers, JM
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Hi there everyone, especially LB and Jaywit ;D ... Jaywit you were not off on a tangent .... Looky ....
Re Rev J F Churton.... and Auckland in Jan 1853 .... there was an epidemic of influenza.... there's several obits for him on NZ papers past, one noting that he ministered to all denominations (re Elizabeth being perhaps non-conformist..). His death (on 26 Jan 1853) : Daily Southern Cross, Volume X, Issue 583, 28 January 1853, Page 2.
His passing was also mentioned in several of the OZ newspapers, including this short paragraph from the Sydney Morning Herald Thursday 24 February 1853 pg 2 of 4
(noting items from newspapers from Auckland) ....The influenza was very prevalent. Among others cut off by it was the Rev.J.F. Churton, who has been Colonial Chaplain at Auckland from its first establishment, and appears to have been highly respected.
So Elizabeth was christened by him on 16 Jan 1853 and so too was Harriet (witness to Elizabeth and John Ennis' marriage in 1851) .... I think it is likely that he was quite ill with the flu when on 16 Jan 1853 he recorded that birthdate of 23 Feb 1831 ... the flu ....
Cheers, JM
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Sounds like you could be right JM........it's a wonder the poor girl wasn't Christened Atishoo...... ;D ;D
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Now I feel really bad about disparaging his handwriting. :-[
I couldn't wait....I went to the library today.
Except my special librarian was off sick. :-\ I found the pages on Ancestry you found JM but I couldn't print them and the librarian today doesn't do genealogy and doesn't know anything about Ancestry or how to get printouts. :(
Oh well, back to waiting for the divorce papers.
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Do you still need info from BMDregisters - if so, I think I can oblige. Just spell out clearly what you want as I can't follow the thread :-[ too complicated when you've not been following closely.
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I know the feeling. :-\
It's pages from St Martins in the fields Westminster. But I think I've got someone on it for me thank you muchly. :D
They're for an Elizabeth DAVIS and a Mary DAVIES, mother Mary, with no father on the records.
But I also found, between their two baptism dates, a marriage for Mary DAVIES and David DAVIES. SO, more spanners in the works. ::)
I'm in the middle of cooking dinner, be back shortly.
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Leonie Glad to have been of help.
It's always worth thinking outside of the box, or maybe my mind is warped that way ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Outside the box is where the answers are.
'Cos I've been looking inside the box and never found anything. ;D
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I think the next question is;
What is the likeliest workhouse Mary DAVIS would have been living in when Elizabeth DAVIS was born in Feb 1832? Given that Elizabeth was baptised at St Martins in the Fields, Westminster.
And are there likely to be any records available anywhere for that workhouse?
I know, that's two questions. ::) ;D
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Leonie You are talking about the period brfore 1834 when the 'new' Poor Law came into being.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/
If it comes up as the home page click on Early Workhouses then Parish Workhouses and scroll down to London.
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Sorry Miss, I wasn't paying attention. Alpinecottage, re BMD Registers, not thinking clearly.
OK, BMD Registers; birth registration for Elizabeth DAVIS, would have to be before the baptism recorded for 23 Feb, 1832. St Martin in the Fields parish, Westminster.
Then a marriage between Mary DAVIS/DAVIES and David DAVIES. dated; 10 Feb, 1833. Also St. M.in the Fs. Westminster.
Then a Mary DAVIES, before baptism dated 10 Nov, 1834. St M i t Fs. westminster.
Please Miss. ;D
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Would it be heloful for Alpine Cottage to check all births/baptisms on the non-conformist registers for Elizabeth Davis/Davies born in London between 1829 and 1832? It would be a shame not to check in case there's another candidate for 'your' Elizabeth that fits the known data better than the CofE one you've got?
Just a thought....
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No births in BMDregisters for Elizabeth Davies before 1832 - only birth is 1835 in Register of Births at Dr Williams Library in Cripplegate London.
There are a few other Eliz Davis/ies bapt 1829-1832 in London - do you want details?
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Hi there,
Marriage by Banns at St Martin in the Fields ....
Mary Davies to David Davies, both of this parish, 10th day of February 1833 by A. Clissold, curate
Mary made her X mark . Witnesses: George Charming, Margaret Edwards.
Noticing that "both of this parish"
Cheers, JM
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Still on 1841 Census ???
Hannah Davis 30 Governess Meridith St Clerkenwell Middx
Elizabeth Davis 10 "
Alfred Davis 4 "
Possible death for Hannah - 1843 Clerkenwell Middx
Not in 1851 census
Alfred Davis possible servant Shoreditch Middx. 1851
You think Elizabeth was educated?
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No births in BMDregisters for Elizabeth Davies before 1832 - only birth is 1835 in Register of Births at Dr Williams Library in Cripplegate London.
There are a few other Eliz Davis/ies bapt 1829-1832 in London - do you want details?
I think it would be useful - ELizabeth was supposedly a member of an independant church, so baptisms in those need to be eliminated. Just my opinion of course
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There is an Elizabeth Davis b 25 Dec 1830 - christened Dr Williams Library - Father Benjamin Davis - Mother Elizabeth, maternal grandfather William Axam. Axam seems to be predominately from Bedfordshire and Wiltshire.
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OK, I'm back. Still half asleep..... very hot and muggy here, slept late. :-[
I was up very late last night, followed the link from jaywit re Parishes, found St Martins in the Fields. Also some help from Barbara there, because I hadn't kept scrolling down far enough. :-[
Finally found SMitFs.....it's a whole world, well village....so the baptism could very well have occured on the day of birth. I don't imagine the 'inmates' were encouraged to have the same 'lying in' time that another woman in a better off situation would have.
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/StMartins/
Worth looking at.
I like this little group, that is; Mary DAVIS, mother of Elizabeth DAVIS (b.23 Feb. 1832) married David DAVIES (m.10 Feb. 1833) then Mary DAVIES (b.10 Nov, 1834)
I certainly don't rule out any others at this point, so I'm still looking.
Yours looks good Ebck, and yes please Angela. :D
I think Barbara is doing something with Karenlee's printer there JM. ;D Fingers crossed.
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Also...I'm not really concerned that Elizabeth is noted as Independent religion on the STATELY list after being baptised as Anglican. Any number of reasons, least of all that as an adult she may have felt no affiliation to St Martin in the Fields, or that she was unaware of that baptism, or that she just plain didn't care. A lot can happen in twenty years of growing up.
No offence meant Angella, and I did check the Non-Parochial Church BDMs, didn't find anything.
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My guess and it is only a guess is that with workhouse births women were not given much choice as to the denomination their children were baptised into. OK maybe RC would definitely be baptised in their own faith but any others would have been told, Rev xxx is baptising today get yours done, especially if there was some doubt wether the baby would survive.
Any marriage before 1837 would have had to have taken place in C of E church, so a marriage church proves nothing, but maybe and it it again only a guess if the marriage is correct then David Davies was a member of an Independent chapel and Elizabeth was brought up from as early age as she could remember in that branch of Non Conformism she assumed she was baptised there, or again there maybe lurking somewhere an Independent baptism.
Some non conformist chapels held on to their records and over time as chapels closed, were amalgamated etc. the records can't be found.
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There is an Elizabeth Davis b 25 Dec 1830 - christened Dr Williams Library - Father Benjamin Davis - Mother Elizabeth, maternal grandfather William Axam. Axam seems to be predominately from Bedfordshire and Wiltshire.
No Benjamin Davis with an Elizabeth in 1841 census. There is:
Benjamin Davis 35 - Night Lodge House Whitechapel
and in Clerkenwell Workhouse there is
John Davis Labourer 40
Elizabeth Davis 55
William Davis 70
Ann Davis Nurse 55
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Just wondering if anyone has access to passenger lists for New Zealand and can check arrival of Thomas & Harriett POWLEY, about 1848. If there is a John INNIS/ENNIS on the same ship. Could be as crew...carpenter.
Confirmation would, I think, rule out any family link between Elizabeth DAVIS and Harriett POWLEY.
I can't find any other link between Elizabeth and Harriett.
John was thought to have arrived in NZ about that time, so maybe on the same ship. ???
Then if Elizabeth and Harriett worked together as milliner/dressmaker, that would be the connection.
Lu mentioned that Harriett had a millinery business. There are several refs in Papers Past to both Elizabeth DAVIS as milliner/dressmaker and Harriett POWLEY as milliner/draper.
Thanks.
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Hi LB,
I've just been trawling through an NZ site ... ;D ...
http://ouraucklandstuff.freeservers.com/
Noticed this entry on that site, so err.... perhaps worth adding to the "set aside for the moment" pile ;D ... Elizabeth had not yet left England, but John Ennis was probably already in NZ ;)
ENNIS Died 4th January 1850, Mary Jane Ennis, aged 16 months.
Could this lass be related to John Ennis .... ???
PS I think there's some passenger lists on a similar site : http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/
Cheers, JM
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;D
On that site, http://ouraucklandstuff.freeservers.com/KendallIJ.htm I've spotted Auckland birth for Elizabeth's eldest lass ....
07 Oct 1852 Innes Constance (to) John and Elizabeth Davis (he a )Carpenter (at) Auckland .... I think I recall you already have the birth certificate, but I wonder where the transcriber found the details ;D as the other NZ children for John and Elizabeth don't seem to be listed there.... ???
PS, do you think that perhaps Harriett's husband may have been a soldier ... Fencibles went to NZ in late 1840's ... I've several on one of my NZ lines ... I'll dig out my hard copy later this evening.
Cheers,
JM
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JM
Check under Ennis and Innis, I think I found them earlier under one of those surnames
Robyn
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Ta Robyn ;D
I've also spotted the Auckland Jury List for 1850/1
There's John INNIS , Carpenter of Victoria St, ;D, but no sign of Thomas Powley/ or variations ....
Cheers, JM
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Ummm....
Perhaps this would be Harriet's husband in 1865 in Auckland ....
Electoral Roll for the year 1865 - 66 City of Auckland East Powley Thomas Queen St ;D
Cheers, .... trawling, trawling, trawling .... JM
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And,
While I have not yet found Thomas or Harriet Powley (or variations) on passenger lists to NZ I have noticed that NZ BDM is back online after their maintenance, so I've noticed death in 1902 for a Harriet Powley, aged 84 .... (born abt 1818 ;D ) and death in 1901 of a Thomas Edwin Powley aged 88 (born abt 1813).... Wondering if either of those certificates would indicate "length in the colonies" ...
Cheers, JM
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Good grief.....thought I'd just have a little Nanna Nap......slept like the dead for three hours. :o
Didn't find any dead people tho'. ???
OK, didn't someone post an obit for Thomas POWELY a few pages back? .....he was an old soldier.....
in NZ ?? years....equated to entry 1848....
That's why I asked about passenger lists. Or did I dream that one?
I'll just go have a look.
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Hi LB,
As Thomas Powley was old soldier, then "Fencibles" and Auckland and c 1849 as arrival dates go hand in hand to MOI .... Onehunga etc .... these links may be of help .... wondering if your John Ennis, carpenter, could have been a Fencible too (max age was 48, later lowered to 41, but I'm not aware of a minimum age to become a Fencible !)
http://www.nzfenciblesociety.org.nz/
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~shipstonz/royal_nz_fencibles.html
Cheers, JM
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??? I can't find that post with the obit for Thomas POWELY. I really must have dreamt it.
Anyway, that second link, JM, clicking on the YES for passenger lists comes up with message to say the site no longer exists. ::)
I'm having a bad day here. :-\ I'ts the heat........this bl**dy heat is driving me up the wall.... :o
;D
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Ummm, sorry LB, I did not realise that ..... at least there's the names of some of the ships .... I'll see if I can find any other site with passenger lists for those ships ....
Any cooler today .... sticky here, too much water laying around
Cheers, JM
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We had thunder storms last night, guaranteed to lowere the temp. :D much cooler today.
OK, the other lists I found for Fencibles just had them (a few wives and captains etc) but no crew.
Now I've got a feeling my NZ cousin believed John INNIS/ENNIS was a ship's carpenter and jumped ship in NZ. I've never found anything to back up that belief, but you never know.
I think there was also some story about a ship wreck, but I think that's really getting carried away.
Most of these stories have nothing to back them up, just old family tales, perpetuated by fantasy.
Oh dear, just when I'm getting settled with a really good lead, up pops another. But I really think it's down to just two or three very good choices. Hopefully there will be something concrete about Elizabeth's origins in the divorce papers or the three new certs I have coming.
Fingers crossed. ;D
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I am so glad you have ordered the divorce papers. I hope they prove to be a treasure trove for you.
Not sure what you will find about her origins. Certainly today's divorce cases don't go into that. only place and date of marriage from memory!! BUt in those times it was a most unusual occurence so they should be interesting reading.
Robyn
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Hi there to all,
I'm hoping that those 1880's divorce papers at least show what happened to their youngest lass, Matilda Alice, born 1873 ... for that should lead to where Elizabeth went, after the divorce ;D .... also, perhaps there's the address for William Larson who would have been served court papers ... I know the file I got for a forebear who divorced in NSW in 1890's had that type of info (many many many pages of info, even included the various newspaper notices detailed) and the bestest bit .... there were signatures .... which match signatures on other a) BDM certificates and b) private family records .... twas grand !
Cheers, JM
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Well, they had 20 days on the aplication, and I sent in off at least 10 days ago, so I should get some divorce papers in another 10 days. ::) The suspence is ....suspenceful. ;D
But I'm still looking for Elizabeth. ;)
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;D
Know the feeling...
Were you able to find passenger lists (ones that work that is ... I'm so sorry about that link ) to search for Thomas and Harriet ...
Cheers, JM
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I did find another site for the Fencibles but no sign of Thomas Powley.
Started looking for other passenger lists. I can't seem to find any that are specific to NZ.
I'm trying. ;D
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Found a John Innes, captain of the Kelso out of London arrived Wellington November 1849. Couldn't see him on any later sailings.
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Auckland Area Passenger Arrivals 1838-1889
Harriet Powley arrived 1848
Harriet Adel Powley 1848
Thomas Powley " 1874
Thomas Elvin Powley 1848
Could you do a resume of what you want Loney Bones - (I found my Scavenger Hunt candidate whilst doing yours :) so will have to cancel my hunt)
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Hi LB,
I woke up (its 3 am) and remembered that one of my NZ lot was on a jury list for Auckland in abt 1860. So, here I am, ratting through my hard copy for my late aunt's great grandparents details ... pitch dark outside, but .... there's a John Innis, carpenter in Chapel St and a Thomas Powley, shopkeeper in Queen St on same jury list as my "Fencibles" (Michael Allen a bootmaker in Albert St and William Pilcher, a settler at Whau.). It's a newspaper cutting, so I'm now checking and I've found it at papers past ....
JURY LIST FOR 1860-61.
Daily Southern Cross, Volume XVII, Issue 1294, 7 February 1860, Page 4
Well, I'd best be off, Catch you later today, when the sun's high in the sky ...
Cheers, JM
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You mentioned a shipwreck - just found there was a mutiny aboard the Kelso - John Innis commander - August 1850 on way to Singapore - two men killed and two brought to trial. Could be a story of Chinese whispers?
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WOO HOO ;D
I went to bed last night after the dissapointment of discovering a whole lot of NZ shipping links all going to a defunct Yahoo site. :'( Someone needs to update their web site. :-\
And I come on this morning to be greeted by JM and Ebch with much good news. ;D
I have a really good feeling about today.
Thanks folk. :D :D :D
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OK, Original request and update.
Original request was for;
1. BIRTH record of Elizabeth Ann Balfour DAVIS. BALFOUR is in doubt.
2. Death record for Elizabeth Ann Balfour ENNIS nee DAVIS.
Known Facts;
Elizabeth DAVIS arrived in NZ 1 June, 1851 aboard STATELY as one of 32 "Distressed London Needlewomen"
Elizabeth Ann Davis was in court in Auckland several times during June/July 1851.
Elizabeth Ann Balfour DAVIS married John INNIS at St Pauls, Auckland, 25 Nov, 1851.
Elizabeth Ann Balfour, wife of John INNIS was baptised at St Pauls, Auckland, 16 Jan, 1853.
(Harriett Powely, who was a witness at Elizabeth's marriage, was baptised at the same time.)
Elizabeth & John had 4 children in NZ between 1852-1858. Name changed from INNIS to ENNIS during this time.
A court order dated June 1860 in Auckland prevented Mrs Elizabeth Ann Balfour ENNIS from disposing of any property belonging to Mr John ENNIS.
A Mrs ENNIS and 4 children were aboard BREADALBANE, departed Auckland 17 Aug. 1860. to Melbourne, Aus.
Elizabeth A. B. ENNIS had daughter Elizabeth Eleanor at Wollongong, NSW, 16 Nov, 1860.
Elizabeth A.B. ENNIS had two more daughters in the Hill End area, 1871 & 1873.
John ENNIS is on Hill End electrol roll for this time.
In 1880 John ENNIS divorced Elizabeth A. B. ENNIS in Newtown, NSW. (Sydney).
(corespondent in case was William LARSON.)
They are about all the facts I presented at the begining of the original Scavenger Hunt.
Lots of avenues have been followed and lots of stuff has been discovered since then.
For which I thank Lots of People,
Leonie,
;D
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But we still don't have a birth record or a death record. :'(
I have divorce papers on the way and some original birth and death records which may help. ;)
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Hi there, ;D
Another sighting online for John ENNIS ... 1872 at Sodwalls
http://www.addison.homedns.org/transcriptions/grevilles/grevilles.html
And at same link (the Directory covers NSW) ...
LARSEN --- ;D labourer Murrawombie Canonbar ... could not see anyone else listed there with a surname Larson ... :o I expected at least several entries ... the index is searchable, it seems to cover all of NSW ... It's too late this evening to ponder about finding an arrival in NSW after 1872 ...
PS I hope this link works better than the last link I posted for you LB ...
Cheers, JM
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Works fine. :D
Thanks JM.
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Working on basis that every bit helps :)
Charles Powley, son of Thomas Powley, policeman, and Harriet Powley (nee Gentan) died 30 December 1852 age 1 day
(ouraucklandstuff)
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Thanks Ebch. :D
Poor baby...poor mum. :-\
Every bit helps substantiate what we have on hand and were unsure of. :D
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How Sad .... hope Elizabeth would have been there to comfort Harriet ...
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Pickings are poor today Loneybones :(
No Elizabeth ... Ennis bits
Sydney Morning Herald 18/11/1887 Funeral notice for Mrs Elizabeth Davis of Hordem Street Newtown - Waverley Cemetery
Mrs Ennis - Milliner - travelling alone 10 May 1901 Capetown/Southampton
nite nite
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Mrs Ennis - Milliner - travelling alone 10 May 1901 Capetown/Southampton
mentioned in a much earlier post but not rhe occupation which is a great find and tends to make me believe it may be the elusive E.A.B. Ennis
Robyn
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Thanks Ebch, the Elizabeth DAVIS funeral also has a notice further down the page with ref; to family DAVIS, so I guess that was her married name.
I couldn't find anything further on the shipping one.
No sign that a Mrs ENNIS left Aus. any time before then, traveling to England, via Capetown or any other way. :-\
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Not sure if you have this but a Mrs Ennis left London for Adelaide on 16th April 1903, aboard the Arcadia. it could be her return journey.
Added - aslo one on 17 Jan 1907, bound for Sydney on the Mooltan.
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I must admit, I hadn't looked for ENNIS journeys this late. Most of my research was with much earlier dates. I'll get on with these lines while I'm waiting for divorce papers.
But as with others who have been giving so much of their time, I'm finding very little new data in the last several days.
I'll be looking in to check on any progress, but I'm not expecting miracles. As Barbara said, miracles take a bit longer. ;D
My very sincere thanks to everyone who has offered sugestions and information along the way.
Leonie.
PS. Keep an eye open for Elizabeth in your travels. ;D
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Loneybones I really have enjoyed this hunt, frustrating that it must be for you. Learned lots of things about Australian and New Zealand immigration. If ever I come across your elusive Elizabeth Ann Balfour Davis Innis Ennis I will make sure she contacts you :D
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Hi there,
Ebch, I agree ;D
I've even looked at the possibility that William Larson may have needed to divorce a presumed wife ... Closest I've come in NSW is to just one index entry... applying for either a divorce or at least maintence ... perhaps seeking a judicial separation (all these are lumped together on one index on the NSW state records on line)
Its for 1897, and from the names of the two parties, its not likely to yield up much (wrong first names, and a perhaps a generation later that William of 1880 ::) ) but its for a lass with a triple barrelled set of christian names ...
Agnes Clara Victoria LARSON v Ludwig Jeppa (no co-respondent listed, which may be a clue to it being only for maintenance) ... not sure, but I would not consider spending any pennies on ordering that file ;) until I knew more about either Agnes or Ludwig... however, perhaps LB may recognise these names :o ;D ;D ;) ;) ;)
Cheers, JM
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Errr.... I may have spoke too soon ;D
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14121202 its the Sydney Morning Herald newspaper for 3 April 1897.... Agnes is seeking a divorce for he has deserted her for three years and upwards ... but the spelling for his surname is LARRSON, ... that's the bit that interests MOI ;D
Wonder if we should be searching for LB's Elizabeth with possible surname of LaRRson .... ummm.... its after half one in the morning, and I'm actually at MOI inlaws for couple of days, sorting some stuffs for M i L ...
Hope the postman gets the A4 sized envelope from State Records to LB "in a timely manner" ...
Cheers, JM
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Err....
There's something online on the National Archives of Australia ... it could be a clue, if perhaps that co-respondent, William Larson stayed with Elizabeth...
Its the arrival in OZ, of a William LARSON in 1908, ... and his nationality was Swedish (that does NOT mean he was born in Sweden, but it would be likely) and date of birth was 2 March 1881 ... no ship's name shown, BUT there's an arrival date (in OZ) of 30 September 1908... and he was first registered at Donald (all "aliens" had to register on arrival and many had to sit a written dictation test (to make sure they were not 'coloured aliens' ... don't ask ... it was also known as the White Australia Policy. Anyways, that file at the archives, it would cost around $16.50 to have that record digitised, and there's NO reason to consider that just yet.
But, perhaps there's an outward passenger list for his voyage from "somewhere" to OZ, (probably took about 5 weeks under steam from say Southampton !) so from say July 1908 .... perhaps Elizabeth accompanied this person, perhaps he was a nephew of her co-respondent ... speculately as usual ... sorry
Search as a Guest, using keywords William Larson http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/ResearcherScreen.asp there's only 13 indexed, and the "barcode" for this chap is 6565067
Cheers, JM
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Thanks JM. :D
When you said you were off to your M-I-L I didn't realise you would take your computer with you. ;D
I thought it was down to just Ebch and me, with the ever faithful Gadget popping in.
I'm not turning off The Hunt, just putting it on the back burner. ;D
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Hi LB,
It's like a watched kettle ;D, but the wait for that postie .... Often when I've put something on the back burner, well its when the pieces somehow line themselves up.
I've been looking looking looking for Elizabeth's youngest lass.... if I find anything, you'll be the first to know ;D I've also thought about that 1873 wedding, do you have info about that daughter, or would you like moi to try to find electoral roll info for her ;D
Cheers, JM ...
Edit to add Have you discounted the Ann ENNIS who is a Mrs Ennis .... in Qld 1893, in this article of Friday 24 February 1893 from the Brisbane Courier ? A thief stole sheets and clothing from her premises ...
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3556080
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I've copied it and pasted it and put it in the pot on the back-burner. ;D
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I've copied it and pasted it and put it in the pot on the back-burner. ;D
Mind the light doesn't go out....!!!! ;) ;)
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Interesting find JM
looked at QLD deaths but it has taken quite sometime to get online with the site :(
1908 Annie Ennis maiden name Porter
1912 Elizabethe Dorothea Ennis maiden name Bettison.
1897 Ann Innes nee Wells
1900 Elizabeth Falconer Innes marriage Korah Charles Brandon
1905 Ann Innes no other details
1908 Elizabeth Ainslie Innes nee Innes
1910 Elizabeth Wilhelmna Innes marriage Terence Edward Smith
1911 Elizabeth Carr Innes marriage Martin Henry Norman
1917 Annie Elizabeth Innes nee Newcombe
1924 Eliza Anne Innes marriage Geoffrey William Luff
1925 Annie Innes nee MCleod
way too late but
1945 Annie Innes father peter James McCormack mother Elizabeth DAVIS
No matches for INNIS at all
WA has
1942 death for ELizabeth Ennis (aged 86 from burial records)
1932 Eliza N Innes (Eliza Nixon aged 86 from burial record)
no marriages to match
Victoria nothing up to 1888 that coincides
1892 Elizabeth Innis marriage Albert Henry Howell
1894 Elizabeth Annie Lucretia Innes nee Westbury aged 27
1897 Eliza Innes nee Morrit aged 63
1898 ELizabeth Ann Innes marriage William Edward Pedden Graham
1913 Eliza Ennis nee Winters age 77
1918 Eliza Ennis nee Hill aged 78
1919 Elizabeth Bird Ennis 44 at Bairnsdale already ruled out
1919 Elizabeth Innes marriage James Francis Allen
will start cross refencing the marriages with the deaths but it may take me some time
Robyn
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Umm
looked at QLD deaths but it has taken quite sometime to get online with the site :( way too late but
1945 Annie Innes father peter James McCormack mother Elizabeth DAVIS
Perhaps it was a LATE registration !
Cheers, JM
I'll edit this posting with any finds on the online newspapers, or online cemetery photo or MI transcript etc ... If this is LB's lass, then there's the father's name .... first time ...
1905 Ann Innes no other details QLD BDM but Brisbane Cemeteries has 8 Nov 1905 aged 68 (ie circa 1836 ish !) 11 28 4/5 at Toowong. Also same grave William INNES, 1 Oct 1976 (ie seven decades later)
I'll do new post with the others as I find them ... on a wireless connection here, and reception issues, getting tossed off and have to re-start. ::)
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Oh :(, 1945,
https://online.brisbane.qld.gov.au/cemeteries/cemeteries_step1.jsp
not LB's lady, wrong age, 72 years 3 Jan 1945, at Lutwyche Cemetery
More to come
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Hi
Not Elizabeth ann Howell nee Innes died 1954 aged 83 father William Innis.
Not Elizabeth Ann Graham nee Ines died 1965 aged 91 father William Innes
Not Elizabeth Allen nee Innes died 1919 aged 49 father Innes
Not Elizabeth Brandon nee Innes died 1931 father George Innes
Not Elizabeth Carr Norman nee Innes died 1942 father George Innes
Can't fnd Elizabeth Ann Luff nee Innes only Elizabeeth AGES Luff died 1933 nee Rickwood
Can't find death Elizabeth Wilhelmina Smith nee Innes
checking deaths for Elizabeth Balfour also
None in QLD
NSW Young 1885 father John B and mother Christina and b 1885
NSW Dubbo 1904 father Alexander mother Fanny and b 1904
Victoria none that matched
WA none that matched
Robyn
Robyn
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Thanks folks :D
The light won't go out Barbara, has Ernest's? ;D
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Thanks folks :D
The light won't go out Barbara, has Ernest's? ;D
Ernest........who's Ernest........?? ::)
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Hi all,
Did you know that a Mrs Ennis departed NZ (various ports) on the Hauroto arriving Sydney 7 May 1890, travelling Saloon class ;D
Cheers, JM
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Umm, better still,
Did you know that a Mrs and Miss ENNIS arrived in Sydney on 13 Dec 1880 from Melbourne... on the Omeo ...
What dates were the Divorce hearing .... you know, delayed until the next day etc..
Cheers, JM
Added, Yep 13 Dec 1880, dispensed with service Monday 13 December 1880 SMH http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13479242 and the next day's edition, decree nisi ... ;D
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'course I didn't know ??? I do now tho'. ;D
That's fantastic JM. So she appears to have been a bit of a gad-about and still in contact with NZ friends, ....and family? I'll go check when the Perth lot moved to NZ.
Added; still in Perth in 1907. :-\
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;D
Agh, so you're taking the pot off the back burner .... What surnames for the NZ lot ... Initials if poss too please. cause I think I have spotted C F Ennis, and others and I cannot remember the names (me list is at home, on me desk, sorry ::) ).
Cheers, JM
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LB,
I don't know whether I happier that YOUR Mrs Ennis has been spotted, or that her youngest daughter, has been spotted... But I am so happy and so wide awake .... it cannot be anyone else but THEM the date confirms it ;D
Cheers, JM
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Calm down JM.........let's just wait for confirmation.......... ;D ;D ;D
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;D but Woo, ;D
Wotcha want, TWO copies of the newspaper hand delivered by Ernie... would that confirm it ... ;D
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;D but Woo, ;D
Wotcha want, TWO copies of the newspaper hand delivered by Ernie... would that confirm it ... ;D
Close ;D ;D
But we really need LB to say yea or nay to it before we start to celebrate. ;)
Well done by the way.......fantastic find :) :)
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:-[ I know I said I was gunna sort out these 300 pages of ENNIS info......but.....
Cyril William ENNIS went to NZ between 1908 when Leila May was born, and 1922 when a male still born arrived at Wellington. Then there was a female 1924 Palmeerston North. (still living as far as I know) a male 1927. P.Nth.(still living) and a male 1932. P. Nth. (still living)
So we have a C.W.ENNIS died 1965 Cashmere, NZ. and a C.J ENNIS born 1927. Plus others.
As for me saying yea or nay.....I have to read it all.... and procrastinate over it a bit..... then I'll start jumping up and down. ;D
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So...............half an hour good for you.... ;D ;D
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I was gonna go to bed. :-\
I've had a busy day.......
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Twas more than half an hour ago when I tweeted LB ... ;D but I'll see if I can find the C W or the CJ ones..
Back shortly...
Here he is ... C W Ennis, from Melbourne to Sydney on the Zealandia arriving Sydney 14 Feb 1916 ... umm its already 14 Feb here in NSW. alas, he was coming from Melbourne, by himself.... I'll get onto it again, perhaps tomorrow night... I'll look at the initals of all on that voyage... especially for Matilda Alice ... ;D
Cheers, JM
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That's MARTHA Alice ::) no wonder you can't find her.
Anyway...Iv'e decided that Harriett POWLEY is far more important to the search.
I figure she is the reason that Elizabeth returned to NZ. I'm sure they had a long friendship and very likely business association.
Could have started back in England.
Could have been reason Elizabeth went to NZ in first place rather than OZ.
I'm also thinking they had a bit more money than the average working class.
" " John was maybe small business owner as carpenter. All records that contain "occupation" say carpenter.
Also thinking Elizabeth could be on business registers in her own right in NZ and OZ.
So, looking at business registers.
Good morning all,
;D
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Well, I was going to look at business registers... :-\ but NLA off the air till tomorrow.
So been looking at shipping instead. ::)
Found a few interesting ones. :D
1861--- Melbourne to Sydney, “City of Sydney” 1st November. Mr Ennis. So John could have been looking for Elizabeth much earlier than I suspected.
1877--- MELBOURNE to SYDNEY, 5th Apr.. Mr ENNIS & child. “City of Adelaide” :-\ don't know who the 'child' would have been. I'd expect any of the older children would have been 'Mr' or 'Miss' , then again, maybe not. Doubt it would have been Emily, 7, or Martha, 4. Unless he'd kidnapped them. :o
1883 ---“Leura” Melbourne to Sydney. John ENNIS.
1884--- “Rondondo” Melb. To Sydney. Arrived 8 March. Mrs Ennis. Could be a child. There is a "+ child" on line above who is atributed to the passenger above that, but could also have been child of passenger below. ::)
Also aboard, Mr W. DAVIS.
1909--- “Westralia” Hobart to Sydney, arrived 23 Dec. Mrs E. Ennis, Mrs Ennis, Miss C. Ward x 2.
Could be Elizabeth A. B. Ennis, Mrs Henry William Ennis nee Ward and two sisters, Clara &
Catherine Ward.
Gadabouts, aren't they. ??? or then again...there were a lot of ENNISs about, maybe none are 'mine'.
But like someone said earlier, would make a good novel. ;D
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;D
Electoral Roll, 1906 Perth WA (edit to add sub-district "Lincoln Street)
Cyril William ENNIS, Wright St, Clerk
Elizabeth ENNIS, Wright St, home duties
William ENNIS, Wright St, joiner
Umm, joiner = carpenter ;D
I'm still looken ;D EDIT TO ADD, not sighted LARSON or similar on that roll ;D, but I will go through to see if I can find MARTHA Alice ... ;D
JM
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Hi LB ;D
Same roll, ie same SUB district ...
Martha Alice DEACON, 285 Bulwer St, home duties
Thomas Henry DEACON, 285 Bulwer St, railway employee
No others with same surname on that roll ;D (edit to add, except for Elizabeth Deacon, dressmaker at 7 Chapman St !)
Cheers, JM
I'm excited, but as Woo mentioned earlier, I will wait for your confirmation , BUT BUT ... google maps shows that Wright St meets Bulwer St ........
;) ;) ;) ;)
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Hi there ;D
Various districts for Martha Alice Deacon and Thomas Henry Deacon, railway employee, in WA Electoral Rolls, so if this is Elizabeth's youngest girl, ;D
1925, (edit to add, same details, no one else with same surname, still there in 1931)
Martha Alice Deacon, 12 Camelia St NORTH PERTH, married F
Thomas Henry Deacon, same address, Rly employee M
No others with same surname at that address (I checked twice, this time ;D, in case)
Cheers, JM, back to looking for Martha Alice DEACON on off chance she was Elizabeth A B Ennis' daughter (of course, tis NOT yet confirmed that she was ::)
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;D
Electoral Roll, 1906 Perth WA (edit to add sub-district "Lincoln Street)
Cyril William ENNIS, Wright St, Clerk
Elizabeth ENNIS, Wright St, home duties
William ENNIS, Wright St, joiner
Umm, joiner = carpenter ;D
I'm still looken ;D EDIT TO ADD, not sighted LARSON or similar on that roll ;D, but I will go through to see if I can find MARTHA Alice ... ;D
JM
That would be Elizabeth ENNIS nee Ward. As in post above....
Going to look for Martha Alice marrying a Thomas DEACON. ;D
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:-\ no marriage on-line. That's NSW, WA and Qld. Can't search other states.
What's next Batman? ;D
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Hi ;D
I think Martha Alice and Thomas Henry DEACON moved from WA to Vic in the 1930's... (only cause I cannot find them on WA roll, but can find same names on Vic roll and I recall mention that LB had Vic based Ennis too ;D)
1943, Kooyong, Canterbury roll
Martha Alice Deacon (no Thomas Henry :( ) 2 Sheele St E10, home duties
Daisy Randell Deacon, 11 Wilson St E10, home duties
1937, Kooyong, Canterbury roll
Martha Alice Deacon, and Thomas Henry Deacon at 2 Scheele St, she home duties, he nil occupation (I sugggest perhaps retired)
1936 Corio, Altona Roll
Martha Alice Deacon and Thomas Henry Deacon at Romawi St Altona, she home duties, he labourer.
Cheers, JM
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:-\ no marriage on-line. That's NSW, WA and Qld. Can't search other states.
What's next Batman? ;D
Look for death of Martha Alice DEACON, probably in Victoria , to find out recorded names of her parents .... ;)
Also, look back at that passenger list with Cyril and co ... look for DEACON .... ;D
Err.... and any chance of that being cat WOMAN as opposed to batMAN ;D ;D
Cheers, JM
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And err...
1903 Electoral roll has Martha Alice Deacon in WA ...
Agh, borth Martha Alice and Thomas Henry DEACON same as per the 1906 entry posted earlier. BUT, I will go through that specific 1903 roll, on off chance that YOUR Elizabeth A B could be in that district ...
Cheers, JM
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All we need now is a marriage. :D And a death with parent's names..... and.....
(I forgot to say this morning that I'm now assuming that Mrs & Miss ENNIS on Omeo are mine. ::)
Got carried away with realisation that Harriett had to be reason they were in NZ. ergo Harriett is now an important part of the search again.)
Well, that's not ALL we need, we still need a birth and death for our Elizabeth.
So now are we going to count windows? ;D 6 plus antivirus which slows things down something chronic. ::)
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I think you might be DonA Quixote ;D
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And err
theres the router and its firewalls, the modem and err the Vista 64 bit and its built in securities, and the Vet anti virus and its pre programmed daily updates and its alerts etc and err.... too many windows opened with rolls of important stuffs ;D of course all are much bettererer than the little laptop thingy I had over the past couple days with its thingy to get moi wired less ;D
I like DonA Keyoteeee ;D
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Umm,
Remember that Elizabeth Deacon, of 7 Chapman St Perth, dressmaker (perhaps mother of Matilda Alice DEACON ie perhaps Elizabeth AB Ennis was known by her daughter's married surname) ... well on WA bdm there's death indexed in 1929 for Elizabeth DEACON ....
Cheers, JM (Dona K report ... at present going through 1903 Lincoln St Perth roll, very very carefully, page by page . ... )
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Alas,
Finished checking that specific roll (1903 WA, Perth, Lincoln St) no likely sightings for Elizabeth A B ....
however,
there was an entry for some chap, showing occupation "rates collector".... so I wonder if there's assessment books (rates books) for Perth WA .... the ones for the City of Sydney (ie what is now the CBD ONLY) ARE online and date as early as 1840's .... and of course my own interests are for inner Sydney so I find them absolutely fantastic. I get the tennant's name, the landlord, the value of the property AND a description of the property. ;D and they are keyword searchable.
I need to have an "eye break".... Dona Keyotee however fully intends to return :D ...
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http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12004633
The newspaper site's working again !
Martha Alice Deacon was Thomas Henry Deacon's executrix, and they were formerly of WA... so it's worth following up more. Martha Alice Deacon was living so close to Cyril William Ennis's address in Perth in the early 1900's
Fingers crossed they were bro and sister....
The newspaper details are Thursday 12 November 1942, Argus, MELBOURNE, so Martha Alice Deacon (hoping she was nee ENNIS) was alive and living in Melbourne in 1942 .... ;D
Cheers, JM
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:'(
6 August 1942, Thomas Henry Deacon, of 2 Scheele St Surry Hills, Melbourne... dearly beloved husband of Martha... alas, no mention of any children for the couple.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11989546
The Argus, Saturday 8 August 1942
Edit to add Funeral to Burwood Cemetery .... (same date for same paper) moi thoughts are for any other names on his headstone, or for next gravesite
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Strange...not coming up on WABDMs. No Martha Deacon either. Do you know how late their records go to? NSW has deaths to 1979.
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Thos Hy DEACON aged 71 died in 1942 at S HILLS
Parents = Wm DEACON & Mary UNKNOWN
Ref =8685
But hate to dash your excitement.....
Martha Alice DEACON aged 77 died in 1949 at SURREY H
Parents = Thomas WOODS & Elma JENKINSON
Ref = 7200
Dee :'(
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No, don't know, but
Lilydale Cemeteries search
http://www.lilydalecemetery.com.au/ has the grave for Martha and Thomas DEACON
as BURWOOD,
6, 86.
NO interment dates, and I cannot find notice for her service ... perhaps twas later than 1949... (I've even looked for notices mentioning scheele street !)
Still looking for anything to indicate she was Elizabeth's youngest ;) not found anything else to give a hint, apart from living nearby to Cyril back in 1903 and 1906.
JUST READING DEE'S POST, THANKS DEE...
Oh well LB, back to the drawing boards by the looks of it.
Cheers, JM
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Just yell if you want any Vic lookups done....can do them all.......
Hated throwing the spanner in the works though..... :-\
Dee :)
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Hi Dee,
So no sight of Elizabeth A B Ennis (nee Davis) or of a William Larson (Carson as alternative if documents were originally handwritten etc)
Cheers, JM
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A search right up to 1985 of Eliz* +Father = Davis or Davies brings nothing that looks like her....no Ennis/Ennes/Innes/Innis/ etc and no Larson with variations.
Dee
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Wow, she's an elusive lady with an elusive youngest daughter ...
I've spotted a Mrs Ennis, in 1885 at Mount Victoria (Blue Mtns NSW) taking over as manageress at The Manor House ... Its an advert, so no mention of a child with Mrs Ennis. But noticing there was no mention of any Mr Ennis ... ;D
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13590730
SMH Thursday 11 June 1885 .... Martha Alice would have been about 12 .....
I don't have electoral rolls for 1880's but I'll try to find a Country Directory for around 1886 ;D to see what's what with that establishment ;D
Cheers, JM
Edit to add, I forgot to mention, Mount Vic .... not too far from Bathurst where EAB Ennis' son was their Mayor around that time ;D
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Err... not sighted any Ennis in several Country Directories for Mount Vic.
Sorry, I must apologise, I looked up several Country Directories for One Tree Hill... that's the old name for Mt Vic (or at least I'm fairly positive that's the old name... I'm remembering my late Dad's yarns about Mt Vic, where his name sake lived back in late 1870's, I could be wrong, and errr .... losing my Dona Keyoteeeeeeee tag )
Cheers, JM
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Now this is downright creepy. :o
The Manor House was in the possession of my COOPER family! 1887- until the 1960's.
As far as I know there wasn't any relationship for another two generations.
I really think it's time I took a break. A stiff drink would be good....but apple juice will have to suffice.
Major creepy. :o ??? :o
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Really .... definitely creepy....
I can't find that Mrs Ennis though.... Am I right about One Tree Hill being earlier name for Mt Vic
Cheers, JM
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Don't know about Mt Vic/One Tree Hill. ??? Possible.
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One Tree Hill.... I've just checked, it was the former name for Mount Victoria, change of name occurred when the Post Office was built in 1876 ....
Wow, I wonder how many NSW centric family history buffs think that they have forebears born out in the outback Wentworth district where there was another One Tree Hill ... when there's the possibility the birth was at what is now Mt Victoria .... One day I will find some spare moments to figure out why anyone would have given the One Tree Hill name to what is now Mt Victoria .... there's all those trees there, and it was definitely full of trees when Blaxland, Lawson and Wentworth crossed the Blue Mountains and stood at Mt York, then got across to Mt Vic, and thence to Mt Boyce and then got as far as Mt Blaxland ...
Afterall, from Mt York they saw they were nearly across, and they figured out to get to Mt Boyce would lead them to the slopes thus becoming the famous "first" explorers to cross the Blue Mountains .... and from memory that was in 1813.
Cheers, LB, many thanks for giving me the heads up on The Manor House ... its led Moi to have some good memories of moi late Dad's yarns.
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I thought you went to bed.
I know that's where I'm off to.
You might have some nice fatherly yarns to dream about, I have a weird tangled yarn to have nightmares about. :-\
But I still thank you for your help. ;D
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Hi LB,
I’m not getting very far at all, but do you have a contact for your Cooper branch... Perhaps they may have some records or diary etc for the late Mrs Margaret Cooper, .... “She was an authority on old Sydney”....
Thursday 28 March 1935 SMH
LATE MRS M COOPER MT VICTORIA Wednesday...Mrs Margaret Cooper widow of Mr George Hubbard Cooper of Coopers Hotel Mt. Victoria died at the age of 85 years. She was born at Chippendale She was an authority on old Sydney She is survived by three Daughters .....
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17159247
Also, before a (not sure if she was your, but perhaps could be) Mrs Ennis was the Manageress at The Manor House, in the mid 1880's (aka Cooper's Hotel), there was a tenant who operated it as a private school. (I think Atkins was his surname ... it was in the smh online, but I lost it somehow last night).... I'm wondering if there could be records for the students at that private school .... errr.... Martha Alice perhaps.
Although I've NO idea where to find records of students at private schools in NSW in any era ;D
But I'm still looking through newspapers online...
Cheers, JM
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hi,
Found a death in England for a Martha A Innes aged 78 in 1933 est dob 1855. Only one in Free BDM :) in Reigate but there is also an Elizabeth A Innes dying there but far to young by over 20 years to be our missing lady. Doubt either are connected.
Just to throw a firework in the pot:
In the period between 1880 and1900 when Australia was in a depresson, many people left the eastern staes most went to WA as you have found but some to New Zealand others to expanding religious colonies in South America
Australia had been increasingly seen as the working man's paradise but the 1890s challenged that view. One response to the resulting disillusionment was the New Australia movement led by William Lane which attempted to create a utopian society in Paraguay in 1893
from http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/web/common.nsf/key/HistoryTowardsFederation
Thre is the faintest possibilty that she may have been one of those in the shift to PAraquay.
Robyn
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Hi there,
I've had a quick read of the passenger list for William Lane's New Australia, its in the Brisbane Courier Friday 21 July 1893, ..... I could have missed, but I didn't see any ENNIS (variations) or Larson etc.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3563245
I'll try other newspapers, in case ....
Cheers, JM
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JM
just an outside chance but something we all forget or even did not realise was hapening at that timne.
My rellies went to WA and I eventually found them all there. But PAraquay was on teh cards as well. Didn't know about the records of teh vassengers being availble. Thanks JM
Robyn
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Oh heavens! This was hard to catch up with ;)
I've probably missed all this though I did try and read it all.
Back to Harriet Powley and that death entry for Charles saying maiden name was GENTAN.
UK records only had 1 so I looked for variants
Thomas Elvin POWLEY m Harriott GUYTON, Norwich Norfolk 1838.
IF she was a GUYTON there is a birth 1818, Norfolk, mother Mary, no father listed. This ties in with the NZ death date for Harriet Powley.
May or may not help :D
Annie
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Well done Annie..........a bit of sideways sleuthing there. :D :D
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Yes I am in contact with a COOPER relative. And I've done a few sums.
George Hubbard COOPER married Margaret HUTCHINSON in 1869 in Sydney, they both died in Katoomba. (Down the road from Mt Vic. )
George's little sister, Emma Eliza COOPER married George YEATMAN in 1873 and had May YEATMAN (who married John ENNIS #3) in 1883. So it's quite possible that this is my Mrs ENNIS managing my Mr COOPER's hotel.
;D ;D ;D
And Harriett is still an important part of the puzzle. :D
Oh that would be ironic Robyn, if she went and died in Paraguay ::) since the next time I go hunting it will be for her husband's birth and that was in the Azores. Impossible to find records in those countries. :-\
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Oh heavens! This was hard to catch up with ;)
I've probably missed all this though I did try and read it all.
Back to Harriet Powley and that death entry for Charles saying maiden name was GENTAN.
UK records only had 1 so I looked for variants
Thomas Elvin POWLEY m Harriott GUYTON, Norwich Norfolk 1838.
IF she was a GUYTON there is a birth 1818, Norfolk, mother Mary, no father listed. This ties in with the NZ death date for Harriet Powley.
May or may not help :D
Annie
DOH this was all on the Harriet Powley thread that I DIDN'T check
smack Annie
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Hi All,
Umm, LB, Re Cooper's and Mt Vic.... that area would be covered by Blue Mountains Family History Society Inc PO Box 97 SPRINGWOOD NSW 2777. They seem to be active and have lots of resources, covering not just Blue Mtns, but just about every bit of Australia ...
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nswbmfhs/index.htm
On the off chance that your Elizabeth A B Ennis was their Manageress, I'll keep looking for her or Martha Alice in that "neck of the woods" .... at least until say around 1908 when Cyril and his wife Elizabeth may have left heading to NZ ... ;D (mind you, I too am finding "ennis" comes up online newspapers when the Return thanks notices actually read "cards" ... )
And I'm so pleased that I found that passenger list for Robyn ... ;D
Annie, I didn't know it was on that thread, so don't fret .... it was news to Moi ;D
Cheers, JM
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Oh no need to smack Annie, :D the whole thing is astoundingly confusing, convoluted and contrary.
I'm seriously thinking of going back to researching me JONESs. ::)
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Well believe me, I have just done a tree for someone full of Smith and White (with an alias too):D
A very grey Annie here ;)
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;D Umm, Annie, would you like to do one for either of my John & Sally Brown late 18thC with "native place west of England" or my John and Mary Smith mid 19thC both "born in England" ;D
Seriously though, I'm wading through Sydney Morning Herald's for a Mrs Ennis around about 1887 or later, perhaps with a private boarding house etc and making sure I have "respite" for the eyes ;) ... NOT anywheres YET ... but
Cheers, JM
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Errr...
Tuesday 7 June 1910 The Advertiser (Adelaide, SA : 1889-1931)
BALFOUR.-On the 4th June, at Davenport-terrace, Wayville, Elizabeth Balfour, of Balfour's Cafe, in her 70th year. Interred at West-terrace Cemetery, 6th June.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5258131
Possibly not her, wrong age ...
I'll check the Resources board to see if there's an online cemetery website ... Back shortly
Edit to add .... I can't figure it out I clicked on ... Dee would know ...
http://www.familyhistorysa.info/births-marriages-deaths/cemeteries/ (search all S A Council Cemeteries), found search engine, and it "fell over" on moi...
Cheers, JM
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;D Umm, Annie, would you like to do one for either of my John & Sally Brown late 18thC with "native place west of England" or my John and Mary Smith mid 19thC both "born in England" ;D
Cheers, JM
No prob JM, back to you in an hour ;D
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I'm sure that won't be her, JM.....Balfour's is a famous family and company here in SA....and I'm off to bed, but I'll check it out in the morning just to be sure.
(I used to love going to Blafour's with my grandmother when I was a little girl. She always bought me a chocolate frog cake. ;D )
Dee :)
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I checked it out JM, it can't be completed or something. :-\
The site worked, I just couldn't find any BALFOUR Elizabeth.
So I entered just a surname that I know should have dozens of entries and it said there are no entries for the data entered. ::)
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;)
LB,
I was scavengering the electoral rolls for all the polling places in 1903 again last right ... I went as far west as Orange, and came back east to Lithgow .... then went to Windsor via Bell Line of Roads, and up to Wilberforce and back to Vineyards. I skipped back up to Lithgow and started again, coming down the Great Western Highway .... all the way to Rooty Hill, covering all the side bits off the road, etc. I looked at every surname starting with E, I and L ..... I couldn't find her, and I couldn't find Martha Alice.
She's hiding ;D ....
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We all know she's bl**dy hiding...that's why we're doing a scavenger hunt. ::)
You must be awfull tired after all that running around,,,,that's a lot of territory you covered. :o
I messaged my COOPER cousin, nothing back yet. She goes to the Sydney Records Office and has access to all sorts of files and stuff. Just hoping she might come up with something.
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Anyone here remember the thread obout the love letters found on a bus?
It was taken of when it was realised that persons in the letters were still living but the lady involved had completely changed her name after her divorce!! Nothing like her birth name, married surname or any associated surnames.
Again another rare possibilty and if so impossible to find.
Robyn
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Hi Robyn,
I know the ending too... I will PM you with a link
Oops, sorry LB for the side track .... oh.... side track .... I haven't looked for EAB up around Oberon or on the roads around the J Caves ...
Ta Robyn for the clue ;D ;D
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Err....
The Manager at Caves House in 1903 was a Harman Pinell SHIPWAY (I first read it as Slipaway ;D) but I guess that's no use to this hunt as there's also an Emily Shipway on that roll... twas only one page long, I see the names of the cave guides, the engineer, the housemaids etc (I was thinking back to The Manor House) but alas none named Elizabeth or Martha ...
I'll get across to Oberon shortly, perhaps via Hamilton ;D much easier this way than when I was a child ;)
LB, does your Cooper cousin have info from the Electoral rolls, .... I could help if you wanted to swap info about Cooper for info about Elizabeth A B Ennis or for Martha Alice ;D
Cheers, JM
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Err...
Other Ennis info (perhaps you already have this)
1903 at Kelso on the roll
John William Ennis, builder, and Emily Bonnin Ennis, domestic duties
Not found HER or HER yet ;D
Cheers, JM
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I have the Kelso stuff, that's in my direct line. It should be Edith Bonnin
This is from my COOPER cousin;
<Echo 1/8/1919
Mr. G.H. Cooper one of the oldest and best known residents of Mount Victoria, passed away yesterday afternoon. For over thirty years he controlled that successful tourist centre The Grand. His advocacy of the beauty of the Jenolan Caves trip and the advertisement he gave to it probably paved the way for the present stream of traffic to the Caves. For the past four or five years he has been more or less an invilid, but with energy stood at his post. Mrs. Cooper and an adult family survive and to these the sympathy of Mountain residents goes out.>
Nothing else yet.
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Errr...
Tuesday 7 June 1910 The Advertiser (Adelaide, SA : 1889-1931)
BALFOUR.-On the 4th June, at Davenport-terrace, Wayville, Elizabeth Balfour, of Balfour's Cafe, in her 70th year. Interred at West-terrace Cemetery, 6th June.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5258131
Possibly not her, wrong age ...
I'll check the Resources board to see if there's an online cemetery website ... Back shortly
Edit to add .... I can't figure it out I clicked on ... Dee would know ...
http://www.familyhistorysa.info/births-marriages-deaths/cemeteries/ (search all S A Council Cemeteries), found search engine, and it "fell over" on moi...
Cheers, JM
Following this up as I said I would.....
Elizabeth BALFOUR aged 69 of Wayville and wife of John BALFOUR died on 4th June 1910 at Wayville.
Ref = Ade 349/285
Her marriage…..
John BALFOUR married Elisabeth MCDONALD 1st January 1867 at the residence of James Calder.
Fathers = John BALFOUR & Donald MCDONALD
Ref = Ade 70/347
And just a little history, quoting Spotlight On……
“The Balfours bakery’s history can be traced back to 1853 when a family immigrating to Adelaide began business as bakers and confectioners. In 1914, Balfour Wauchope commenced operations in Adelaide as a new business venture, with the emphasis on cake shops, cafes and tearooms and a bakery to supply them.”
So definitely out of the loop.....
I really like the lead of Mrs Ennis and the Coopers........
Dee :)
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found reference in the NSW Library photos I believe.
http://acms.sl.nsw.gov.au/item/itemDetailPaged.aspx?itemID=825733
263-264. “Martha Innes who taught little children to love Jesus and now Jesus
loves Martha” — on a tombstone, Orange Cemetery / T.J. Hollands, Orange
Robyn
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Umm, that looks interesting Robyn ;D .
I've not found our missing 2 and need to have a quick break, cause I'm reading same names over and over ...
Also, just because the NSW BDM online doesn't show a death registered, does NOT mean that a death was not reported, particularly in late 19thC
By that I mean that there's plenty of examples where BDM Sydney (Head Office) either did not receive, or did not write up into their records, the quarterly returns that the civil registrars (usually attached to the Court House, or the Police station ... ie a "secondary appointment for the Crown Sarg or the Sherrif etc) were paid to send to Sydney. It was a mish mash system until around WW1 ... Also, IF an inquest was held ... eg around 1888 (as in one of my lot) in central west NSW, then the coroner's findings were all that was needed, and NO death cert was ever required to be issued, (eg for probate, the coroner's report was sufficient evidence to permit probate action to commence).
Also, sometimes the BDM online index seems to indicate a bdm event occurred in a particular year, but errr.... the reference number is actually the year that the BDM Head Office got around to (or perhaps received the) returns from the rural registrars. I have found one instance where the transcript shows it was informed in 1884, but the transcript and online reference is clearly indexed under 1907. I then got the real deal certificate, and sure enough, death clearly 1884, and clearly registered in 1884. I wrote away to BDM and they sent my fees back with NO explanation. They did NOT ask for the cert back. I phoned. They explained the register at HO was written up in 1907. I asked for answer in writing .... that was errr .... several years ago.... I'm still waiting for the postman with that letter.
But, it happens ... So, when online looking through NSW BDM, never limit yourself to just a year or two or three, look further, particularly if the event occurred OUTSIDE of what was then Metropolitan Sydney. (any thing with a post code higher than about 2249 was OUTSIDE of Sydney until at least WW2 era).
Sorry for the chapter and verse explanation.
Cheers, JM
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Oh, oh oh, I'll go check that one out Robyn.
I just sent a letter to the Editor of the Blue Mountains Advertiser asking if any readers know about Mrs Ennis at The Manor House/Coopers Grand. Couldn't find any OLD Blue Mountains papers, so found one for today. You never know yer luck 'til yer give it a go.
That's OK JM, a whole batch of entries from Wagga Wagga never made it to the NSWBDMs. The Wagga Wagga Historical Society have a few of them, but my grandfather and great uncle never turned up. ::) Luckily my cousin visited Wagga and went out to the cemetary. :D
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That's a very interesting explanation JM.
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I also emailed The Manor House at Mt Vic. One can only ask, nothing lost if they ignore me. ::) ;D
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They wont ignore you Leonie ;D ;D You'll be inundated with info ;)
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Oh goodie. ;D
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Hi LB,
Lots from Bourke and err further west never made it either .... I'm talking about whole years and years .... The Dubbo Family History group has folders and folders .... could be near 80% of the Births in particular NEVER got to Sydney ... and they were not lost just cause of bush rangers out around Eugowra holding up the Royal Mail and nicking the gold, I'm talking 1880's, 1890's and err perhaps even to around when the boys enlisted for the Boer War ... At one stage the rural registrars were paid by the number of entries forwarded, until some bright spark "invented" some deaths to help himself to extra revenue ... So then they were paid a quarterly fee, regardless. So some chose to collect it regardless of transmitting the forms ....
Cheers, (Thanks Tephra for your kind comments, I'm a bit centric with Old Sydney Town and west across the Blue Mtns and err got several drovers in my lot ... they got up into Qld ... very difficult to find, and it would not be fair to ask for a scavenger hunt as they arrived too early for UK census).
Fingers crossed for reply for LB to both The Manor House and to the newspapers. Fingers and toes crossed that the postman arrives soon,
and also
HAVE you checked the Orange Cemetery for that Martha Innes ... that Robyn spotted ... I cannot figure out online link to that Cemetery. I am meant to get to Eugowra (just other side of Orange) sometime later this month. OH has digital camera ;D
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I think this is one of the best sites; http://austcemindex.com/cemeteries.php
But I couldn't find anything there. :(
The other one I use is; http://www.australiancemeteries.com
But it doesn't have contacts to all cemeteries, just lists them.
All in the Bathurst area for instance direct you to Bathurst Historical Society.
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Sorry LB,
I should have posted here a little while ago, cause I too use those sites, and had been there straight after I posted.
I've just been reading a very old article about a New Zealand Princess. It's nought to do with this thread, but it's brought a tear or two to my eyes, this New Zealand Princess gave up all her names, not just her nee name, but all her names and went (to India and then back to OZ) with her European husband whom she married when aged just 14. So sad, for she passed on in Sydney.
I share the link (Sydney Gazette, Saturday 3 March 1810 page 2
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/627941
Cheers, JM
PS
I had spotted a Mr James Innes as a Master of the Martan with the usual notice for ships crews leaving Sydney (on page 1)
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Hi there,
At West Maitland, Martha Alice TAYLOR, dau of William and Mary and on BDM online 13104/1941 would seem to be for same Martha Alice Taylor with a probate packet reference (ie was an adult) and the NSW Archives Investigator index shows
Martha Alice Taylor - Date of Death 15/06/1941, Granted On 19/09/1941
So, I have not followed that " Martha Alice" much further, except if NSW marriage, and presuming first marriage, then nee surname not showing as ENNIS or other surnames mentioned as likely for EAB ...
Oh well, back to "tha drawen bored"
Cheers, JM
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http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-vn4609194
Do you think this could be EAB Ennis nee Davis ???
nla.pic-vn4609194
PIC/12254/89 LOC Album 1136
Merlin, Beaufoy, ca. 1830-1873
Three women and an infant outside of weatherboard cottage with picket fence, Hill End, New South Wales, ca. 1872 [picture]
1872 or 1873. 1 photograph on carte-de-visite mount : sepia toned ; 6.3 x 10.4 cm.
Part of B.O. Holtermann archive of Merlin and Bayliss photographic prints of New South Wales and Victoria [picture]. between 1872 and 1888.
You may save or print this image for research and study. If you wish to use it for any other purposes, you must complete the Request for permission form.
To cite this page: http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-vn4609194
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Don't think so JM. I've looked at just about every photo in that collection. I have 2, Mrs & child that I posted, Mrs and Mr, Miss Ennis & Miss E.Ennis. Also a couple with 3 boys who look to be the right ages. I'm pretty sure of those. Plus about 5 cottages with families which could be mine.
Thanks for looking. :D
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OK, A4 envelope arrived.
But don't get excited. :-\
Forty thousand pages, all in the most atrocious handwriting ::)
New data;
Mrs Ennis departed from ORANGE, NSW. 17th September, 1878. Reason stated as seeking medical treatment.
Two children with Mrs Ennis, ie; Emily and Martha. (so Emily did NOT expire in 1878.)
Resided with Mrs Medlar in Castlereigh St Sydney.
Shortly after moved to the house of Mrs Minty in Smith Street, Sydney.
Here she and co-respondent resided as Mr & Mrs NASRAL. ??? This is written three times in three different hands and is definitely NASRAL. I've tried several searches NSW from 1800 -1979. Absolutely no NASRAL. ???
Mr & Mrs NASRAL, with Emily & Martha, departed Sydney for Melbourne.
Son Albert went to Melbourne looking for Elizabeth and learned that they had gone to Adelaide.
I can find no evidence that the divorce was made Decree Absolute. Should be about 12 months after Decree nisi.
That's it. Very disappointing. :'(
I did think for a while that John might have found gold at Hill End and there was maybe lots of money involved, but he didn't file for divorce for two years on the grounds that he didn't have money for court fees any earlier than that. So there goes that theory.
That's all there is folk.
I'd appreciate any input, but if the shine has worn off, I'll understand.
Leonie.
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Try LARSAN..........just an anagram!!!
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More;
Born 23 Feb. 1831, London? Parents unknown at this time.
Migrated to NZ aboard Stately 1851. Well documented.
Arrived NZ, 1 June, 1851. Age 21, Dressmaker.
Involved in incident re. water for youngest girl. Well documented.
Involved in incident re. singing about the captain and the doctor. Well documented.
Appeared in court in charge against Captain, lost case.
Appeared in court charged with assault of 2nd Mate. Documented – Papers Past.
Letter to Editor, 28 June, 1851. Papers Past.
Married John Innis, Auckland, 25 November, 1851. Parish records – certificate.
Had four children. 1852-1855-1857-1858. Auckland.
Moved to Australia, 1860. Per “Breadalbane” with children.
Had three children. 1860—big gap--1871-1873.
Photos from Hill End, c.1873-5.
Divorced 1880 Newtown. William Larson, co-respondent. No evidence they married.
...and probably more....
Just a thought. ;)
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;D
Hi LB,
Tephra's right about that being a likely anagram...
the decree absolute would be in the newspapers and details should have been in that file ...
So she left from Orange in 1878 with the two younger girls .. Umm.... but only one Miss E came up from Melbourne with Mrs E ...
I'll try to figure out where to look next ;)
Cheers, JM
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Oh my great aunt Fanny......why didn't I see that?
All the bl**dy dove orchid making me thick headed. ::)
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Told you to pack them up and send them to me ;) ;)
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1878/9 Electoral Roll ORANGE
John ENNIS, residence, near Orange
John ENNIS, freehold, Orange
Not sighted Larson (or variations or anagrams)
JM
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1878
There's a William Medler at 327 Macquarie St Sydney... and
there's a James Minty of Smith St Sydney with freehold at Ann St Sydney
but no sign of a William Larson (variations etc)
Cheers, JM
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Err...
Bestest I can do at the minute ;)
City of Sydney Assessment Books
1880 Cook Ward
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07nx/
this turns up James Minty (not looked further for Medler or Larson) but that link should get you to various assessment books for Sydney covering dates before EABD married in NZ to err ... around WW2 ...
I had not previously thought to spend a great deal of time looking for her there .... Off the "top of my head", I think Smith Street was resumed when Central Station was built, but I will check that out properly when I am back home with my hardcopy books ...
Cheers, JM
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I already have that link thanks JM.
From when we were looking at all the Millers Point/Rocks area properties thad didn't get passed down to any COOPER/GLOVER/PAPPS descendants that I'm related to. :-\ ::)
Wouldn't expect Elizabeth A.B. ENNIS/Larson/Anything to be owning property in Sydney, maybe renting..... will look at Adelaide and see what I can find.
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Well it is good to have a few more clues LB :D
We can look at Adelaide and Melbourne at least
Annie
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Hi Annie. :D
It says in the affidavit, that said William Larson was residing with said John Ennis and said wife, for fourteen months prior to said Elizabeth going to Sydney. ??? :o ::)
Why do they have to put in all these 'saids' and 'alledgeds' and stuff as well as writing in such atricious handwriting? Don't they realise I've got a headache?
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;)
14 months ... so he may have been working with/for John Ennis in the Orange district from say mid 1877 .... so logically he (WL) went to Sydney with her two, ... and he too has vanished ... to perhaps Adelaide ... Poor Albert Ennis, trying to find his mum and younger sisters ...
Cheers, JM
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Hi there,
There's a 23year old chap, William Larson arrived NSW on the Star of India in 1876 ... but EAB would be good 20 years older than him...
Cheers,
JM
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I've rechecked the South Australian and Victorian records.......no sign of an Elizabeth Ennis etc or Lars* dying ....nor a likely William.
I also checked the marriages.....just in case....... ;)
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Thanks Dee. :D
Umm, sorry JM. William Larson arrived "....some weeks after...." and Mrs Ennis met him at the station.
He came back to the residence of Mrs Medlar and visited Elizabeth and was "...in her Bed Room until nine thirty." :o "...and came again next morning for breakfast." This was also "some weeks" before said Mrs Ennis went to visit Mrs Minty to rent a house. Where she and William set up as Mr & Mrs Nasral.
There Mrs Henry ??? said if she (Mrs Ennis/Nasral) didn't give up her wicked ways, she (Mrs Henry) was goung to write to her husband.
Somwhere in the said atrocious writing there must be reference to Mrs Henry, but I've missed it first time round. ::)
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Sounds like a good script for a day time television soapie, Leonie! :o ;D
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I'm collecting ideas for me opus magnus. ;D
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Hi LB,
I did say you would get your monies worth ;D of sheets of A4 paper... Any info about custody of Martha the youngest girl ....
Cheers, JM
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No info re custody. Elizabeth took them when she disapeared to Adelaide.
There was nothing about a decree absolute...nothing further at all.
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Hi there,
Not sure, but .... Wilhelm LARSON in business partnership (hay and corn merchants) in Victoria 1 June 1885, notice dissolving a business partnership in Collingwood, Vic. Wilhelm could be William. The business continued with the partner operating it without Larson. Could that be a pointer to perhaps when EAB moved to Adelaide ;) or could be a red herring ::)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/084w/
Cheers,
JM
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There are so many red herrings I could start a canning factory. ::) ;D
I was just going through my NZ cousin's paperwork...there's a reference to a reference to a conversation held in David Jones cafeteria in 1956 which was sounding very promising until the teller of the tale mentions Albert's (the son who went to Melb. searching) daughter Dorothy. ::) Albert had NO CHILDREN!! So the teller of the tale was obviously bonkers.
Why didn't my NZ cousin see that before he published? Geees louise. No wonder I have a headache.
I'll go have a look JM. ;D
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Also, ;)
The Decree nisi to be ruled absolute SMH Friday 4 November 1881 http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13498208 someone must have paid legal reps to lodge that application for that ruling.
I'm actually quite surprised that that ruling was not in that A4 envelope... In that envelope, did you get copies of the NZ 1851 marriage cert ... NSW Supreme Court can't dissolve a marriage without proof it existed in the first instance ;)
I'm lost for words actually.... OK, A4 envelope arrived.
But don't get excited. :-\
Forty thousand pages, all in the most atrocious handwriting ::)
I can find no evidence that the divorce was made Decree Absolute. Should be about 12 months after Decree nisi.
Cheers, JM
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Nuffink......
It was all aledged marriage and said wife...... really only about half a dozen pages....all just reiterating the one statement by John Ennis and one statement by Mrs Medlar. Then reports back and forth between legal briefs....very briefs. ::)
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Umm...
1903, Electoral Roll, Sydney CBD
ENNIS, Emily Maud, seamstress at 5 Rose Road, (around Central Station area, polling place "Belmore" ) No others with that surname at that address... probably another red herring ... but I'm thinking of the Emily Louisa born 1871 and that EAB was seamstress ...
Edit 1 to add
LYLE, James, at 5A Rose Road, basket maker
Cheers, JM
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Here's another one :o
Elizabeth Eleanor ENNIS married John Hart COGDON, 1881, in Bathurst, NSW.
They are both on the electoral rolls for Queensland, 1903-1913, then Elizabeth (Elanor) disapears.
John COGDON died in Queensland 23 October, 1926.
The only thing close to a death for Elizabeth Eleanor is Nellie COGDON-REDE, 1929 in Leeton, NSW.
So, this looks like another Elizabeth ENNIS has done a runner.
Very interesting though, the first electoral entry is for "Elena BALFOUR COGDON" in Cairns, QLD.
Since Cairns is where I live, this was a bit of a surprise, to say the least.
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Have you tried Ninnis? There is an Elizabeth Ann Ninnis who dies in 1910 in Clare SA. No relative named.
Cheers :)
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Thanks jingali,
sounds like a possability.
Leonie.
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Age of Elizabeth Ann NINNIS is given as 62.
Ref = 350/361
Dee :)
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In 1910 she would have been 79. (?? my brain is scrambled at present.) But we know she didn't always tell the truth.
It'll probably be several days before I can have a really good look to check this one out.
Leonie.
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Death index says she was single.....checked the births index and no Elizabeth Ann NINNIS born in South Australia.
So.o.o.o .....well worth seeing if anything else can be found about her.
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I've looked and looked, can't find anything. :(
I don't think the age difference is anything Dee, I really think she could have got away with that. Although I only have one photo of her, she's small and neat and has the bone structure that could hold age back.
Darn, it's promising.... keep on lookin' Ma. ;)
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Hi LoneyBones,
Just joined rootschat as I was visiting Wagga with my husband and we followed up on some family history Re: Jones Soap Factory. Are you still after any history or have your questions been answered?
Regards
Bronny