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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Breconshire => Topic started by: daisymac64 on Wednesday 03 February 10 11:19 GMT (UK)
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Hi there i am at the mo tracing my Gramps family and im just wondering if they ring a bell with anyone?
my Gramps Granddad Edward John Jones from Llandeff Breconshire married Florence Evelin Mason in Pontyopool in 1909
His father Edward Jones married Charlotte agnes Saunders in crickhowel Breconshire in 1882.
Charlottes father was John Saunders her mother Jane Jones or Hoskins?
John Saunders died and Jane remarried a Edward McDermott
What recently came to light was my grt grt Granddad who married Florence Mason had a sister who married a man with the surname Williams a farm worker from Breconshire she died having a son who survived this would of been my Nans cousin,unfortunately we dont know who Edward John Jones sister was as we have no name for her,Edward was well known around the South Wales as a very good mountain fighter who had many contests he was known locally as Jack or Jack the Devil! and was friendly with a group of Gypsies called Price?Any one have any info on the above families id love to hear from you especially any on the Williams family from Breconshire many thanks Daisy
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Hi
To help trace the family could you give Edward and Charlottes census ref 1891/1901 Where are they? difficult with a name like Jones!
To help track down the sister we have to know who she was and then look for a marriage to your Mr Williams.
cheers cardiff ???
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Hi there thanks for reply
I dont have access to Ancestry but i have the following info if any help at all starting with the Saunders family
1864
Marriage John Saunders to Jane Hoskins?(Not sure if this is her correct surname!) LLanelly Carmartenshire
1871 census Blaevavon
John Saunders 26,b 1845 Breconshire,Blaeavon
Jane Saunders wife 28,b 1843 LLannorda,Pembrokeshire
Charlotte Agnes Saunders 5,b 1866 LLannorda,Pembrokeshire
John Saunders 2,b 1870 LLannorda,Pembrokeshire
Mary Saunders 5 mnths,b 1870, Blaeavon,
1882 Charlotte agnes Saunders marries Edward Jones at Crichowell,Breconshire
There son Edward John Jones marries Florence Evelin Mason in 1909 Pontypool along with Margaret Jones and Tom Smith,possibly a double wedding
Ive spoke to my Nans brother who told me his Aunty Margaret(Edwards sister) was married to a Williams like i say who had a son he survived but she died giving birth to him.unless theres a way of tracing Edward and Charlottes offspring i dont know how i can go about even finding Edward John Jones sisters proper name?
Any suggestions would be very much appreciated, Daisy
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Hi
Are you tracing Jones or Saunders?
regarding the Jones connection when and where was Edward John Jones Born? To Find this info you have to start at the basics.
We know John Jones married Charlotte saunders do you know anything else about John Jones? Where he was born or where and when he died.
Does your nans brother know where margaret was born and when . Or where any of them they all ended up around 1911.
cheers cardiff ???
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Hi there Cardiff
im trying to trace both firstly with regards John Saunders would you hazard a geuss as to why he seems to travell across Wales from Brecon to Pembroke no mean feat in 1861 id reckon maybe a Travelling connection?I do know Edward john Jones Florence Evelin ended up in Abertillery/Cymtillery after 1911 where he worked at the pit i think thats in Gwent i dont know Wales to well myself! But the family stayed there for a long time as my Nan and her brothers(1920s) and also my father(1940s) where born there so after the marriage in 1909 onwards they would of been living there where my Granddad was known as either Mad Jack or Jack the Devil and still talked about right up to the late 70s even tho he died in the 1950s the reason being he was top man in his day in the surrounding areas as a bare knuckle fighter also my Nans brothers were known all over the valleys for holding there hands up maybe thats where the rumour of the Saunders being travelling folk come from?Hope this is a bit of help
Daisy
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Hi
Heres something to starter
1871 census RG10 piece- 5313/ folio- 11/ page16
Prince Street (Victoria cootages)
Upper Llanover Blaenavon
John Saunders b 1845 collier b Llanelly brecknocknshire
Jane saunders b states pembroke ( not sure of this because in 1881 gives born as John)
Charlotte b 1866 states born as mother but birth suggests born Monmouth and gives monmouth 1881
John 1869
mary b 1871
Birth Charlotte Agnes Saunders 1st qtr 1864 vol 11a page 59 district Abergavenny
marriage
John Saunders=m= Jane Jones 4th Qtr 1864 vol 11a page district Abergaveny
good match as in same district as charlottes birth
Marriage
Jane saunders =m= Edward Mcdemott 1st qtr 1883 vol11a page 157
district bedwelty (Monmouthshire)
So although Jane has taken Edwards name in 1881 census they did not marry until later.
Its a start!
cheers cardiff ;)
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Hi
poss match to John Saunders
1861 census Rg09 4222/10/19
Worcester St Llanelly Brynmawr Reistration district Crickhowell Brecknockshire
Thomas Saunders b 1817 Crickhowell Plaster tiles
Mary wife b 1813 Castle Ewylo carmarthenshire
David b 1842 Llanelly Brecknockshire plaster tiles
John b 1845 .. Plaster tiles
Elizabweth b 1851 ..
Thomas b 1852 ..
Margaret b 1855 ..
Hannah b 1857 ..
1871 census
Rg10 5587/75/24
Alma Terrace llanelly Brecknockshire
Thomas saunders b 1818 Crickhowell Plasterer
Mary b 1815 carmarthenshire Newcastle ? Newcastle Emlyn
margaret 1853
Thomas b 1851 Plastere
Hannah b 1856
cheers cardiff ;)
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Hi
Info on Jane Saunders nee Jones / Mcdemott
1891 census Rg12 5465 /81/10
Holm Flat st rawmarsh Yorkshire west riding
edward Mcdermott b 1850 cheltenham Blacksmith stricker
Jane b 1845 Llanelly brec
Edwards sons
Tim, Edward, Willaim pit pony drivers
1901 census Rg13 4941/27/46
3 farm Rd Ebbw Vale bedwellty Monmouth
william Mcdermott b 1879 coal mner
Harriet wife b 1881 pontypool
Mary ellen b 1899 Pontypool
Edward Mcdermott father b 1850 coalminer
Jane mother b 1842 Llanelly Brec
In the next census they are all still living in Ebbw Vale
It looks like when you said that John was going from Brecon to Pembroke I am unsure why Pembroke had been put in as her and the childrens place of birth because all the census info states Llanelly Brecknockshire.
Also both children Charlotte and John looks to have been born in brecknockshire.
Unless it should have read John 's place of birth was Pembrokeshire?
The only way you can prove that who is who is to get John Saunders and Jane Jones marriage certificate this will confirm who their fathers are?
At least then you would have a fighting chance on finding Jane Jones on the census.
Jones is not a good name to look for!!! You need as mutch info as poss!
Where did you get Jane Hoskins from?
cheers cardiff ;)
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Hi Cardiff
Thanks ever so much for the info on the Saunders my Gramp will be over the moon! Im sure he never knew some of them were plasterers i know hed heard Charlotte remarried a McDermott,also he always said that it was Jane Jones someone transcribed some people for him must of been wrong tho as theyd told him she was a Hoskins or Hopkins.At least we know Mary was a Jones still wont be easy trying to trace a Jones in South Wales! Once again many thanks Cardiff for your help it really is appreciated
Daisy
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wow this is interesting - Jane and Edward McDermott are my great, great grandparents. So they were living in sin and my devotely catholic ggrand dad was illegitimate. I'd be interested to know when John Saunders died - maybe they couldn't marry until 1883 because John was still alive. Edwards brother appeared to do the same thing, He ran off with his landlords wife and son and they lived together until tand the husband died. I have a picture of Jane if you are interested. Have only just started using this site but come the week end I could scan and upload it if you are interested. I still live in the same area of Wales - so if you need any help with placenames ect. I am afraid the journey from Blaina, Mons to Llanelly Brec is only about 4 miles - so John may not have been as much of a wanderer as you thought
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Hi Jane nice to hear from you!
Im going to contact my Gramp tommorrow and tell him you have been in touch Jane would of been his 4 x Great Grandmother and Charlotte his 3 x Great Grandmother (i think thats right!) we only have one photo of John (jack)Jones who would of been Charlottes grandson but i know my Dad hasnt got any photos of the Saunders side of his family so hed love to see a photo of Jane
kindest regards
Daisy
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Hi Jane hope you and yours are well ive been trying to private email you via Rootschat but have been unable to im just wondering if its still o.k for you to send me a pic of Jane ? If so please send me a private email and i can send you my email address,kind regards,Daisy
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Hi
Just wanted to say how pleased I am that I have helped in a small way getting you two together.
Good luck both with your search you both are not alone now so info should be great to share ;D
cheers cardiff ;)
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Hi Cardiff
Nice one and many thanks for your help and info it really is appreciated,me daughter Daisy did all the previous look ups for the family on Roots chat me Father was amazed at the info ive been able to show him and my uncles we are now trying to see how far we can go back and hopefully post for some more info on Edward Jones,s family but i dont hold out a lot of hope of going back much further then his marriage to Charlotte Saunders in crickhowel Breconshire 1882,once again many thanks all the best Duncan
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Hi
Do you have this info?
1851 census H0107 piece 2490 folio 488 page 62
Worcester St Brynmawr llanelly
SAUNDERS
Thomas b 1818 Crickhowell brecknockshire tiller and plaster
Mary b 1814 Newcastle in Emlyn carmarthenshire
William b 1840
David b 1850
Mary ann b 1844
John b 1846
susanna b 1848
Elizabeth b 1850
Poss marriage for Thomas and Mary ( because 1851 census gives Mary's bith Necastle in emlyn)
Thomas Saunders=m= Mary Jones 3rd qtr 1841 vol 26 page 733 district Newcastle emlyn carmarthenshire
cheers cardiff :)
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Hi
Marraige above may or may not be right?
1841 census
H0107 1366 / 5/55 / 29
Worcester st Brynmawr brecknockshire
saunders
Thomas b 1821 born in county Plaster
Mary b 1816 not born county
William b 1840 born county
william Williams b 1796 b county
( don't know who he is may be lodger does not give relationships on 1841 census.
cheers cardiff :)
Ps
poss marriage 1839 Brecknockshire
either Mary llewllyn or Mary thomas ? =m= Thomas saunders
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Hi Cardiff thanks for the info its great can we assume that Thomas listed as plasterer would be right on censuses but we cant be sure of Marys surname prior to Marriage?Still no Gypsy link on this side then il have to post for Edward Jones info as for some reason thru family rumour my Dad thinks there was a marriage to Lovell or Locke,Price or another family years back maybe its just rumour!Thanks again for your research its really appreciated,regards Duncan
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wow this is interesting - Jane and Edward McDermott are my great, great grandparents. So they were living in sin and my devotely catholic ggrand dad was illegitimate. I'd be interested to know when John Saunders died - maybe they couldn't marry until 1883 because John was still alive. Edwards brother appeared to do the same thing, He ran off with his landlords wife and son and they lived together until tand the husband died. I have a picture of Jane if you are interested. Have only just started using this site but come the week end I could scan and upload it if you are interested. I still live in the same area of Wales - so if you need any help with placenames ect. I am afraid the journey from Blaina, Mons to Llanelly Brec is only about 4 miles - so John may not have been as much of a wanderer as you thought
Hello, Only just joined the site, and started research into my Family History.
I have established that Jane McDermott (Saunders) was my maternal Gt Gt Grandmother, mother of John Saunders (b 1869 in Llanelly Hill). Interested in any information regarding, particularly the SAUNDERS family. If anyone has pictures or any other information to share, I would be most grateful. Many thanks.
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HI skjoop ;)
Nice to hear fro you im still waiting to see if anyone can add anything else to the Saunders family unfortuneately since janesob posted i sept last year ive heard nothing back ive emaile her a few times but no reply?the only info i have on my side of the Saunders is what has been kindly sent by other Rotschatters so like you if anyone else can shed any more light on them id be so very greatfull
many thanks
kindest regards
Dunc
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Hi there
Not been on here for a long time just wondering did you find any more on the Saunders for years i was told they were from Devon or Somerset via Forest of Dean butthen discoverd my Dad has 2 Saunders links the one in Wales he thinks may of been married into the Lovells as he remembers a Granny Lovell on Saunders side possibly Gypsy Lovells?