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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kerry => Topic started by: gingerclifford on Saturday 06 February 10 20:51 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to trace anyone who knew or knows anyone who was/is related or just knows, any Clifford from Kerry, especially Carchiveen, or Cork. I am related to the late Edward (Sigerson) Clifford. He was a well-known writer in Ireland and was the author of the well respected, 'Boys of Barr Na Strade/Srade'. He was my uncle. My father Gerald Clifford was one of his younger brothers. He was also known by the name of Sigerson Clifford; Sigerson was the surname of my paternal grandmother. I would also like to make contact with anyone who may know any of my paternal grandmother's family, as I said they were called Sigerson. My paternal grandmother was called Mary Ann. I believe they came from Cork or even Kerry.
Thanks.
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There are a number of Sigerson entries in the 1911 Census in the Cahirciveen and Dingle areas of Kerry. If you had a birth date for Mary Ann Sigerson Clifford you may be able to identify other siblings.
also just came across this site which may give some more pointers. It says that Edward (Bernard ) Clifford was born in 1913 so while he will not be in the 1911 census you may find his parents.
http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irishpost/ents/irishmusic050601.asp
Hope this is of use
Regards
annclare
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Hi Annclare,
Thanks for your message. It has been really helpful; I will look at that link. Edward Bernard Clifford was indeed my uncle and I did find his parents, although I didn't have any luck finding the Sigerson family although thanks to your link, I believe I may be more successful.
I know his mother Mary Anne was about 24 in 1911, so at least I can work backwards. Last night, I did locate my maternal grandfather's family so that has made be quite happy!
Just out of curiosity, are you related to any of my family? I have lost contact with cousins on my father's side. Anyway thank you again. If I can help you in any way, I would be happy to!
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Not a relative - just have an interest in Kerry research.
Have you seen this site? http://www.sigersonclifford.com/
It might give a few more clues.
annclare
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Hi Annclare,
Thanks again. I have looked at that site and even emailed the author to get more info. Hopefully he will reply! I was only 15 when my uncle 'eddie' died and at that age you don't have the appreciation that comes with maturity!! My mum and dad are also dead now so obviously I am limited as to who I can ask in my family. But I am so proud of my family history and hope one day to visit my 'homestead'! Strange, because me and siblings are the first generation born in England; everyone else has been born in Ireland. So although I was born here I have a pull to go there!
Anyway thanks you have been great!
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My father was born in Cahirciveen, my 91 year old aunt still lives there. We have Sigerson relations, the Sigersons originated in Denmark.
Just checking the newspaper archives, there is a mention of Danny Sheehan who was married to a Curran returning to Cahirciveen from London with his two sons on a visit, it states that he was Sigerson's first cousin.
As I thought, your Sigersons were from Ballinaskelligs, just picked up a death notice for Thomas Sigerson father of James, it says that James was a cousin of Sigerson. this obit is 1968
That means that you have living relations, they used to own the Sigerson Arms Hotel in Ballinaskelligs, I know they still own the pub in Dungeagan.
Death of a Michael Sheehan, his father was Daniel, High Street, must be Danny above's brother, states a cousin of Sigerson.
Death notice 1971 John Joe, Sigerson's brother in London
PM me your email and I will forward you some of the articles
Brendan
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@gingerclifford:
First, to introduce myself, I am Wilfried Voss, and I am the person who created the website http://www.sigersonclifford.com. The website does not contain a lot of information, only a few bits and pieces I found through the Internet (just like this forum). My intention was to find additional information on Sigerson Clifford. I received a few responses, one from a person who was a friend of Colm Sigerson Clifford, and another from Sigerson Clifford's granddaughter who promised to talk to her grandmother regarding further information. Apparently she lives in the UK and will visit her grandmother in August.
Living in the United States (Massachusetts; my wife's grandmother came from the island of Inishbofin) makes it difficult for me to find more information, and I would appreciate if we could get in touch and exchange information.
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Dear Wilifried Voss,
Thank you for your message. I would be happy to chat with you some more. I think my email address is on here? I will check. I am not aware of Sigerson's granddaughter's whereabouts. I would be delighted to get in touch with her, so would you be prepared to pass on my details to her? Or she could pass her details onto you?
It would be good to be in contact again soon.
Gingerclifford
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Dear Ginger,
Great hearing from you!
I don't think that any e-mail address is public on this forum, and it is not advisable to put them right here due to too many spammers looking for this kind of information...;-)
My "coded" e-mail address is: (*) - Just replace the "[at]" with "@".
Please feel free to send me another e-mail, and I will forward your request to Sigerson's granddaughter.
Regards,
Wilfried
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Ginger, Brendan, and All,
I just happened to stumble onto this RootsChat when I Googled "Sigerson's Arms Hotel" and would love to share what information I have about the Sigerson (or as we spell it Segerson) family in Ireland. I am especially interested in making the connection between Sigerson Clifford and my family since discovering his poems and stories on my one visit to Ireland from Atlanta, Georgia, USA a few years ago. Tim Dennehy's musical versions of his poems, "Between the Mountains and the Sea", is one of my all time favorite CDs.
My great grandmother's maiden name was Ellen Segerson and she was born near Ballinskelligs around 1835 to Thomas and Ellen (Cary) Segerson. Her brother, Christopher had gone to the United States to study for the priesthood and when their father died around 1849 her mother, sisters and other brother joined him in the Georgetown area of Washington, D.C.
Christopher Segerson did not join the priesthood but raised a family in Georgetown and is buried at Holy Rood Cemetery. One of his grandsons, Christopher Segerson Tenley, gathered a lot of family history from his mother and on visits with Sigerson family members in Dublin and County Kerry. I have copies of letters he wrote to my Aunt Virginia when she was planing to visit Ireland back in the 1960's. They are a store house of Sigerson history!
Our Irish Sigersons are descendants of the Viking Sigur Earl of the Oarkney Islands, who fought and lost to the Irish King, Brian Boru at the battle of Clontaf in 1014. We are also related to Dr. George Sigerson, physician and scholar of Irish literature, who was the father of the poet Dora Sigerson Shorter. And on top of that we are related to Daniel O'Connell, the Liberator, as his grandmother (or great grandmother) was a Sigerson.
Would you be interested in copies of Christopher Tenley's letters? I have been planning to transcrib them for my cousins and could post copies if you are interested.
Mary
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Hi, just researching my family name that happens to be Sigerson. I'm originally from ballinskelligs, in co. kerry. The Sigerson name is still alive in Ballinskelligs. My father whose name is Thomas, my grand fathers name was James Sigerson who used to own a pub in Dungegan, a village in Ballinskelligs.
My aunt Rosie owns this pub to this day. I would be happy to try and help you with some research.
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Linda,
What a trill it is to connect with a real, live Ballinskelligs Sigerson!
Did anyone in your family previously own the Sigerson's Arms Hotel? That building is supposedly where my great, great grandfather, Thomas Sigerson was born. He was reported to be a "hedge row" school teacher and died in 1849 in Dungeagan.
I just found the following web site on the Ballinskelligs Castle. Our family has always claimed it as the Sigerson Castle but this is the first time I have seen verification that it was occupied by the Sigerson family in the early 17th century.
I have to believe that your grandfather James and my gggrandfather Thomas come from the same linage. Do you know James' father and grandfather's names?
Thanks for responding!
Mary
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In my excitement I forgot to attach the Ballinskelligs Castle website:
http://ballinskelligscastle.com/fundraising.html
Mary
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sorry for the delay in replying mary,
I have found out that my grandfather's fathers name was thomas sigerson. not too sure on the part about the sigerson arms hotel. the previous owners of the premises were surname main. they still reside in ballinskelligs.
unfortunately, its no longer called the sigerson arms hotel. after that name it was called mains and now it is called cable o leary's.
with regards to the castle that you mentioned, i didnt hear of the sigerson family residing there, i asked a few of my family members and they didnt know of it either so at least you gave me some new information.
it is know as the mcCarthy castle today.
so if my grandfathers father was thomas you've found the connection.
unfortunately, there isn't that many of us left. The only one that can pass on the sigerson name through getting married would be my brother. So we're few and far between.
have you ever visited the area before?
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Linda,
Your Thomas Sigerson and my Thomas Segerson could very well be the same person! At the very least I know they are closely related because they are both from Dungeagan.
What year would you estimate your Thomas to have been born? Mine was born about 1792 and died around 1848.
I have visited Ireland only once in 2005. Unfortunately it was with a tour group of Girl Scouts and most of the adults on the tour has visited Ireland before so they skipped the Ring of Kerry. When we got to Killarney and I realized how close I was to Ballinskelligs I rented a car but only got as far as Killorglin. I was handling driving on the left side of the road until I came on a crew working on the road and scrapped a road grader!
That trip sparked my interest in my Irish family history so when I do get to Ballinskelligs I will really appreciate it. I am attaching a picture of my mother's cousin Kate Segerson taken when she visited the "Sigerson Castle" back in the 1930's.
Mary
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Well Ginger,
Just came across this thread tonight and finding it very interesting. I'm buried in my own family tree at the moment and we cousins - so hello from a cousin. This is through Sigersons Grandmother - Mary O'Connell who was married to Con Clifford who was Michaels father, Michael being Sigersons father.
Other information elsewhere in the thread which connects you to Daniel O'Connell on the Sigerson line is correct. Further to this, You are double related to Daniel O'Connell through the O'Connell Line. My own grandmother would have been great friends and close cousins with the Cliffords and we would have a lot of memorabilia in the home which would carry the Clifford name from swapped books etc.
Hopefully you will get this and you can share some more information you had.
Dom
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Correction - The Segersons (Sigersons) were married to Daniel O'Connells Aunt Alice
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For Lindaseg - I also posted this as a new topic - Segersons in Ballinskellig
Linda,
I would like to share some information with you regarding the Segersons. My maternal great grandmother, Mary D. Segerson, Cloghaneanua, Ballinskelligs, married my great grandfather, Daniel O'Shea, Oughtiv, Waterville on 09 February 1869.
Bill
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Hi There, Im doing a bit of research into the Relation between Sigerson Clifford and Dan Courtney of Maulin, Dromid ,South Kerry 8 miles or so south of Cahirciveen. I am not related to Dan but am related to his family, who have on many occasion said to me that Dan originally wrote the Boys of Barr na Sraide , he sent the song to Sigerson for his opinion but never got a reply back, As it turned out the song was sung on a radio program in the early 1950s called "The Ballad Makers Saturday night by Sean O Siochain (who was a friend of Sigersons) and the rest is history. Dan was born in 1888 and died in 1963. A surprising fact is that this song was not published in the 1st edition of Ballad of a Bogman in 1955?. My research shows that Dans Mother Ellen Connell( Grand niece of the Liberator) was a Sister of Sigersons G Grandfather Michael O Connell. One of Dans surviving daughters recalled how it was composed stating that the main change from the original version is in the last verse , she states that her father wrote ; And when I take my long last sleep, and death shall come to me, then lay me down in that old town between the hills and see, Ill take my sleep in those green fields, where first my life began, Where the Boys of Barr na Sraide went hunting for the wran.I would be interested what in your thoughts on this matter, and would make available a number of songs that Dan composed thru out his lifetime, so comparisons can be made with the Boys and his other songs. Kindest regards.
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Hello is Ginger Clifford still active on here,we are related to the Clifford family and would very much like to get in touch
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Hi Pruby,
There has been a problem with GingerCliffords emails until today but this has now been fixed.
Regards
Sarah :)
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Hi Ginger,
I'm your cousin, Sigerson Clifford was my father and your Dad was my uncle, if you are still on here get in touch.
All the best Sheila ;D
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Hello I am Sigerson Clifford's daughter, so are you a relative of mine?
All the best Sheila
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Hi Sheila,
Welcome to RootsChat :) When you reply to a post a notification will go out to the users. Lets hope to see Ginger soon.
Regards
Sarah
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we are related to the Clifford family , Christina Clifford (Lovena)married name Cousins, being my Grandmother and sister to Sigerson Clifford, would be very interested to connect with anyone connected to the family.
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Hello to everyone and it's lovely to hear from you all. 8)
Sorry, I haven't been on here for a while and even to get on today I had to log in via facebook.
Hi Shelia, you are my cousin x
Hi Pruby, I remember your grandmother very well! She was my lovely aunt, and she wanted to look after me when my father died. x
My dear brother Michael, was trying to find out as much as he could about our families, but he died suddenly 4 years, so I am continuing. I hope we can keep in touch now and get to know more about each other. In the meantime, friend me on facebook: Jayne Clifford-Greening. Even though I am married, I have kept my own name. I want to pass on as much to my children as I can about the Cliffords. My husband's surname is Greening, but it is a name adopted by his family so they can't find nor trace their real surname.
I always talk to them about their famous Uncle Edward x
8) ;D 8)Hi There, Im doing a bit of research into the Relation between Sigerson Clifford and Dan Courtney of Maulin, Dromid ,South Kerry 8 miles or so south of Cahirciveen. I am not related to Dan but am related to his family, who have on many occasion said to me that Dan originally wrote the Boys of Barr na Sraide , he sent the song to Sigerson for his opinion but never got a reply back, As it turned out the song was sung on a radio program in the early 1950s called "The Ballad Makers Saturday night by Sean O Siochain (who was a friend of Sigersons) and the rest is history. Dan was born in 1888 and died in 1963. A surprising fact is that this song was not published in the 1st edition of Ballad of a Bogman in 1955?. My research shows that Dans Mother Ellen Connell( Grand niece of the Liberator) was a Sister of Sigersons G Grandfather Michael O Connell. One of Dans surviving daughters recalled how it was composed stating that the main change from the original version is in the last verse , she states that her father wrote ; And when I take my long last sleep, and death shall come to me, then lay me down in that old town between the hills and see, Ill take my sleep in those green fields, where first my life began, Where the Boys of Barr na Sraide went hunting for the wran.I would be interested what in your thoughts on this matter, and would make available a number of songs that Dan composed thru out his lifetime, so comparisons can be made with the Boys and his other songs. Kindest regards.
That's interesting and I would like to hear more. x
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hi ginger I have sent a message on facebook to 2 Jayne Clifford-Greening it wouldn't let me send a friends request to one it did the other ,but not sure if they are both you !! so will waitm to hear bk
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May I add to this thread to seek information on my own Sigerson roots?
My great, great, grandfather is Edward Sigerson, born c. 1841 in Kerry. He is recorded as living in Portmagee in the 1901 Census and his occupation is given as a mason.
His son (my great, grandfather) Thomas, born 1878 in Ballinskelligs, joined the Royal Navy on November 15th 1896. (2 of his brothers Edward & Richard also served in the Royal Navy) and married Bridget Buckley of Inch Co. Cork in 1900. They lived in Gyleen/Glanturkin near Whitegate Co. Cork. Thomas died in 1911. Their son Patrick is my maternal grandfather.
I am seeking information on Edward, I believe his wife was Hanora. I am seeking her maiden name and anything related to Edward's or Hanora's life and ancestors.
thank you in advance for any help you can provide.
John
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http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/8f79590544084
Edward Sigerson and Honara Shea 13th Feb 1877 in Dromod
marriage 232 here
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634297#page/21/mode/1up
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Bridie age 10
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Portmagee/Portmagee/1406900/
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/9253d70418750
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Caher/Old_Road/102275/
notice he has them all scratched including Mary A married
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002468322/
so is she the mother of John Clifford
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/2dd6296743216
Thomas 1877 ?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hgw/
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Frank Sigerson ?
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D5153981
edited to add number 71 top of page in 1911 on Spike Island
F.S age 18 Gunner,Royal Garrison Artillery, R C ,Read and write,labourer,single,born Kerry,speaks Irish and English
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001907700/
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Dathai
thank you so much for the data you provided and the time taken to reply. You have helped me fill in several gaps and for that I am extremely grateful.
John
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My pleasure
Dathai
P S Did Thomas overstay on his honeymoon
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hh2/
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Dathai
It appears that he did.
I have his Royal Navy Service record. He enlisted on 15 Nov 1896 and his character remained very good in his early years. He received 56 days hard labour while on HMS Howe for being absent without leave. He served that time in Cork prison from Oct 20 1900 to 14 Dec 1900.
His service record went down hill thereafter and from 1903 onwards he spent several periods "in cells". He was sentenced to 28 days Hard Labour in Feb 1907 for insubordination (HMS Commonwealth), a further 41 days hard labour July-Aug 1907 (HMS Mars / HMS Vivid I) for absence and refusal to do duty. Finally he was sentenced to dismissal after 12 months hard labour, Sept 1909 (HMS Mars) , for absence without leave and striking his superior officer.
John
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Frank Sigerson ?
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D5153981
edited to add number 71 top of page in 1911 on Spike Island
F.S age 18 Gunner,Royal Garrison Artillery, R C ,Read and write,labourer,single,born Kerry,speaks Irish and English
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001907700/
Yes Dathai, I believe that is Frank (Francis) can you tell what company he is with? I suspect it should be the 10th, 43rd, or 49th Co RGA.
Thank You, I am a bit of a novice at genealogical research.
John
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no idea what regiment but two of his commanders named on bottom of barrick return form
R C? Campbell Lt
M M Morriss ?Lieut Colonel R G A,Cork Harbour
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001907698/
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Hi Mary from Atlanta. During this Covid time I have been putting together the history of my dad's side of the family. He was a Sagerson from Johnstown, PA. His father Robert Sigerson was in the Civil War and received his pay check written to Sagerson. He thought it would be easier to change his name rather than get the check changed. He was probably right about that. We also have lots of correspondence from Christopher Tenley. On line I found the story Christopher sent us of Sigurd the "Dragon Slayer". My mom thinks it must be true because Sigurd, an ancestor, after slaying the dragon, was able to speak to the animals... and my sister is a veterinarian in Spokane, WA. In all of Chris's correspondence, I haven't been able to straighten out his lineage or that of Daniel O'Connell's. All so confusing especially when all the names are the same. Any chance you have that figured out? I'm getting close to being done, having had so much time at home.
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Sorry, if anybody cares I made a mistake in my note to Mary from Atlanta. It was my father's grandfather who fought in the Civil War. Three generations of Robert Sagersons from Johnstown, PA, and three wars: Civil War, WWI and WWII.
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I am seeking information on Edward, I believe his wife was Hanora. I am seeking her maiden name and anything related to Edward's or Hanora's life and ancestors.
Party 1 Name EDMOND SEGERSON
Party 2 Name HONORA SHEA
Date of Event 14 February 1877
SR District/Reg Area Caherciveen
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11130/8075248.pdf
KG
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Hello all,
Thank you for your messages. I have been ill but back now. Hope to get chatting to you soon.
GingerClifford x