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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: dalek39 on Monday 15 February 10 02:38 GMT (UK)
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I would like help on my paternal grandmothers family... She was Mary Jean McDonald..b Charlton Victoria..1883.
I have the name of her parents...Donald McDonald..b 1851 Inverness Scotland...and mother Christina McIntyre. b 1854 Scotland.. They married in Victoria in 1881..
Donald is buried at Cheltenham Cemetery..Christina remarried a John West, and is buried at Springvale..
What I'm having trouble with is Christinas' side...I know her father was Duncan McIntyre, and have come up with alternative mothers..Agnes Turner..Mary Campbell..Margaret Bell...
Christina and Donald lived around the western district of Victoria..and I have looked on the census , but there are so many its confusing... ::) :)
Since this post, things have changed, as shown on later posts.. ::)
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Dalek,
What year did Christina die ??
Daizi
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Hi Daizi.
According to the information from Springvale Cemetery, CHRISTINA WEST died in Jan. 1947 aged 93.
She and JOHN are together and he died in 1934.
Sue
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Hi Sparrett
Yes , just saw that, according to death index, father is Duncan McIntyre / mother = Unk reg # 1036
So death cert wont be much help... :(
Daizi
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Thanks folks..your right...bit of a problem...I have all the children of this marriage..Donald and Christina..but want to find out mother of Christina..and where their origin was..I know it to be Inverness Scotland..looked on the census . but thats not much help...sooo many...what do I do ??? ::)
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Dalek,
Do you know if Christina had any siblings ?
Maybe there marriages / deaths certs will shine some light.
Daizi
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Yes Daizy..no I dont..but have her daughters if thats any help...
..Mary Jean McDonald .b 1883 Charlton. Victoria.
Christina McDonald.b 1886 Charlton Victoria.
Annie Victoria Louisa. b 1888 Yeungroon Victoria.
Ethel Sobina B 1893 Charlton. Victoria.
Margaret Florence.b 1898 Charlton. Victoria.
Christina McDonald ..daughter..I think is buried at Springvale. ;D
..when I said what should I do..meant..throw up the hands..
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On 2nd thoughts..dont think her childrens birth dates would help...
I think she may have been born in Glasgow..but thats not a certainty...
I looked up the Vic census and there was a Duncan McIntyre at Yeungroon around the time one of the children of Donald and Christina births...but I did not see a mother. ???
This Duncan McIntyre turned out to be Christina McIntyres brother...
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I'm sure you would have told us but do you have any of the following:
Either of her marriage certificates - should give parent details, including mother if you're lucky ;D
Any indication on her death certificate as to how long she had been in Victoria?
I can't see anyone likely to be her on the Victorian immigration.
Noting the date of burial was 21 Jan 1947.
Judith
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I have just found a Mary Campbell in Hamilton 1903 census.. I know they were in the Hamilton area at some time...Mary Campbell is one of the possible mothers I have, also Agnes Turner..she is in Sunshine West area in 1924..up until 1942..
So both these women must have migrated here..question is are one of these Christinas' mother ??? Does this help ::)
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No I dont have any certificate for Christina..only her husbands ..Donald McDonalds' death record.. He was buried at Old Cheltenham Pioneer Cemetery. I have contacted them to ask details, and only got cause of death..and his parents names and occupations
I would have thought her name would have been on his death record..
I was told that he ..Donald..was a publican / Hotelier.. by an aunt..but dont know if thats reliable..
I'm not sure if she remarried after Donalds death..in 1913. or did she divorce him...as she did remarry a John West....I dont know the date...
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Maybe I should try for a Birth or marriage certificate..which one would give me the Mothers name ???
I thought we'd be able to find something other than that course...but I dont want you going round in circles...thats my department ;D whatever you suggest.. :)
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Just have to depart for awhile..back soon. :)
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I'd be looking at getting the marriage certificate.
In my opinion the first marriage certificate should give you the best information about her parents, The certificate for her second marriage should give parent information and say if she was a widow or divorced and list how many children she had. As you have the children sorted out I reckon the first marriage cert would be the best.
Others may well disagree with me ::)
Judith
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I can't see a divorce listed for them up to 1900.
But you can look further at the Index to Divorce Cause Books of the Supreme Court of Victoria, 1861 – 1924 at PROV here:
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/publications/documents/05335-P0.asp
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Hi All,
Not trying to be contrary, :D I would choose to get the certificate of the second marriage.
Being a little more modern, it may hold more information, it may give up to date children's details and as you say Judith it will show her status at the time of the second marriage which will sort the divorce versus widowhood query.
I think we do not have a date for the WEST marriage. Do you have it Dalek?
Dalek, several times here you have referred to A VICTORIAN CENSUS in 1903. I wonder if you mean an electoral roll?
If so, best to use that term so there is no confusion. ;D
Sue
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I can't see a divorce listed for them up to 1900.
But you can look further at the Index to Divorce Cause Books of the Supreme Court of Victoria, 1861 – 1924 at PROV here:
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/publications/documents/05335-P0.asp
There was no divorce, 1st husband died and is buried at Cheltenham
Daizi
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I'm not sure if she remarried after Donalds death..in 1913. or did she divorce him...as she did remarry a John West....I dont know the date...
I was replying to this quote by dalek as she doesn't have the 2nd marriage details & didn't know if they divorced prior to his death.
Either could be the case...
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..I'll' look into that site Merlin... and Judb I'll go for that marriage certificate..may take a while, but I'll get back to you...save going round in circles...thanks for your help...much appreciated... ;) :)
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Think I jumped the gun a bit, saw last post before I read others....Sorry I did mean Electoral roll...and thanks Crazi Daizi for that..thought she may have remarried after his death..not divorced...anyway, will attend to the other things on the To-Do list and get back to you...Thanks all for your help..If you find anything else would love to hear... ;) :)
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Just one thing...to get a marriage certificate for Donald and Christina..all I have is the date they were married..not day or month..or place other than Victoria...will that do..will their birth dates be enough ???
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Delete above...Have sent off and ordered marriage certificate
will be in touch when I receive it...thanks so much :-* :)
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The Melbourne Benevolent Asylum which was located at East Melbourne moved to Cheltenham and occasionally a death and burial at Cheltenham may be for a resident of that institution.
Is this his death?
McDONALD Donald
Father Mcdonald John Mother Maggie MCKENZIE
62 years at Cheltenham 1913 Reg#12716
Possible Birth - extracted record
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
McDONALD Donald
Jun 1850 Inverness, Inverness, Scotalnd
Father John MacDONALD Mother Marjory McKENZIE
Birth Extracted record -
MCINTYRE Christina
12 Apr 1854 Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Father Duncan McINTYRE Mother Agnes TURNER
I can't find a marriage for Christina to a John WEST.
Cheers
Cando
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Cando...you are a terrific....thank you so much :-* There are so many names the same ..it makes it very difficult...I saw on one of the electrol rolls an Agnes Turner in Sunshine and other places..so will have to investigate that...see if there are other names connected with her at same places...
I also saw a Duncan McIntyre b 1821..Lanark Glasgow.. same area where Christina was from.. other siblings around Barony Lanark Glasgow..but..thats another thread..another day...
Once again you have come up trumps.... :-* ;D
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Cando.....you are right ..it is Donald McDonald who died at the Sanatorium in Cheltenham in 1913...Father John McDonald..Fisherman from Inverness..and mother Margaret (Maggie) McKenzie...
This has since been proven incorrect..
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Hi Dalek
I saw on one of the electrol rolls an Agnes Turner in Sunshine and other places
Do you have reason to think AGNES and DUNCAN were no married?
If they were married, she would not be AGNES TURNER on the electoral roll.
Also, is there a reason to assume her family travelled with CHRISTINA from Scotland?
Sue
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Cando....cant find a record for Donald McDonald on that site ..Father John McDonald..mother Margaret McKenzie..There are others born to them at Inverness around that time..but no Donald...
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sparrett...oops yes that makes sense...when I looked up birth of Christina..parents came up as Agnes Turner and Duncan McIntyre...got a tad confused .. ::) so many names spinning in my head...I just assumed they were married...sorry...
I was told...long ago by my mother..that the McDonalds of my line were decended from Glencoe...and I did see a Mary Campbell and Duncan with a Christina..from the Glencoe area..but I thought the date wrong..where Agnes fits in with Christina birth date, providing that is correct...I have sent for a marriage certificate..have to wait for post...will that tell me parents of the bride ???
Cando was very helpful with her find also...appreciate that. :)
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Hi Dalek,
You need to put the name DONALD MACDONALD JUN 1850 Inverness, Scotland into the search with the parents names JOHN MACDONALD & MARJORY MCKENZIE otherwise the record won't come up.
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Marjory...McKenzie ??? OK will do...didn't think of that..Thanks Merlin.
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Merlin...just did..and yes it came up..I didn't think Marjory would be called Maggie...but..thats Scotland...love them. ::)
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Marriage of Christina MCINTYRE's parents:
DUNCAN MCINTYRE married AGNES TURNER on 20 JUN 1851 at Barony, Lanark, Scotland.
You already have Christina's birth that cando posted previously.
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thanks Merlin...got that.. :)
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Have to go out for awhile...back later. 8) :)
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Dalek I would suggest that when searching on IGI for a birth record that you enter just the name of the person whose record you are seeking, year of birth, two year range, name of father and surname of mother, Region and country....I don't post the shire unless there are too many hits.
I never search using all the information taken from a death registration. Invariably there are inaccuracies.
In this case I searched Donald McDONALD b. 1851 =/- 2 years, father John McDonald and mother's surname McKENZIE...Region British Isles and Country Scotland... You will get two results, a birth in Perth and another in Inverness. There is no need to search using MacDONALD. You can refine your search further if there are too many hits.
You can search yourself for the marriage of John McDONALD and Marjory McKENZIE...it is there ;D Perhaps try and find the record yourself ;D. There are two records....I would note only the extracted record. I tend to ignore submitted records.
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks Cando...you're a gem....good advise... :-*
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cando...found them..thanks again...I saw the two entries...one for Bolesine..and the other Dores...I take it they are the same...
I understand what you say about submitted records..been caught there myself.....back later.. :)
Delete this..wrong information.
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Well well..I have just received Donald and Christina McDonalds marriage certificate...Agnes Turner was NOT the Mother...nor was Duncan the father...
Married 21 Jul. 1881 East Charlton Hotel..Charlton.. Name and Surname of the parties...Donald McDonald..Christina McIntyre..Batchelor...Spinster.. Birthplace..Inverness..Scotland.. She ..Melbourne Victoria...( that was a surprise) married by Presbyterian Minister.. Charlton.
Donald McDonald of Yeungroon...Farmer.. Minister..Henry Swan... Donald was 29..Christina..24
Residence both of Yeungroon... Mothers maiden name..Christina Robinson..( sorry my mistake before, it wasn't Agnes after all, writing hard to read) and Neil McDonald....and..Angus McIntyre and Ann McGilvray.. both Farmers... Marriage by license Witnesses Donald Mc ? maybe McIntyre.. hard to read..and Margaret McDonald...
Well...just shows..you can bark up the wrong tree after all....thanks to everyone..I am so grateful for your help. :-* ;D
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Then this will be Christina McIntyre's birth:
MCINTYRE Christina b. 1857 at COLLINGWOOD #4349
Father: Angus
Mother: Ann MCGILVRAY
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Hi
Those names - McDonald- McKenzie and Scotland.
May be something of interest here for you
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~coigach/index.htm
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Merlin...You beauty...thanks for that...its all happening...I was just about to search that..I'm still recovering from the shock...proves one has to be careful..very careful... ;D
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accam...
What do I say...Im "gobsmacked" You have no idea what that means to me...thank you sooooo much.. I will study that... :-*I only found the site this week of where Christina is buried and visited it...and my grandparents..Mary Jean was her daughter...she married George Silverton Adams..They are buried together....wow.... ;D
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I have been looking on the 1841..1851 Scottish census..and all I can find on Neil McDonald and Christina is...1841. C..Neil McDonald..45. Farmer..
Christy McDonald.25
Donald 5y
Mary 3y
Ann 2y
Donald was supposedly born in 1850/1..makes this a doubtful...but?
Then there is Donald McDonald..age 1 Farmers son...1851 census.. with children..Ann..11y
Peggy 12Y.....Ketty 6Y...
There is another Donald McDonald..1851 census..father Neil..mother Christiana..but once again Donald is 4y..
I also have a Donald McDonald arriving on the Marco Polo in 1825..age 1y...
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I found on the Australian census a Neil John McDonald...could this be him. ??? He was a farmer in the Charton Area..married in the Charlton Hotel..and some of his children were born in Charlton, Victoria.
Neil was married to a Christina Robinson...
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Accam...did you receive my PM on that site you gave me.
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Hi dalek39
Yes got your pm
Sorry cant help any further I only came across that info. when in a moment of frustation I just googled "Christina Kerr married John Williams" they are my gt gt grandparents.
It was a break through for me as there is my Christina Kerr leaving Scotland during the famine.
Just thought it might be worth you taking a look. Did you find the names of those who left Scotland for Australia?
Accam
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Accam...Yes I did...thank you....have to confirm it though..there are so many, as you well know...How lucky for you that you saw that on your family..It does give you a charge...hope you find more for yourself...I have found that you go along...nothing...then all of a sudden..its there...good luck. ;D
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Christina McIntyre's Parents Marriage:
MCINTYRE Angus married MCGILVRAY Anne 1856 VIC #688
Siblings to Christina McIntyre: (you already have her birth I posted)
MCINTYRE Donald d.1859 age 9mths RICHMOND #367
MCINTYRE Duncan b.1860 BRANXHOLME #15155
MCINTYRE Jane Mckellar b.1863 BRANXHOLME #12674
MCINTYRE John b. 1867 BRANXHOLME #906
MCINTYRE Sarah Rachael b.1870 BRANXHOLME #14000
MCINTYRE Sarah b.1873 BRANXHOLME #878
Parents to above are: Angus MCINTYRE & Anne MCGILVRAY
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Thank you very much Merlin..that is great...I had a feeling about Branxholm from a voter list..but I was looking for a Duncan not a Neil..for some strange feeling I kept going back to it...so, the folk at Branxholm are related...thats good news. 8) ;D
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Big problem...need help please... I have been searching my grandmother ..Mary Jean McDonald..
I have conflicting records ...first..in a family book..born 1884 at Yarragon..Victoria..married George Silverton Adams..2 Jul. 1910 at South Yarra..Victoria...it states she was the daughter of a Hotelier.
I have records..with dates and Reg No's of parents and siblings...now I have a death certificate for her father, Donald McDonald..if thats him..died 1913 at Heatherton Sanitorium, and is buried at Cheltenham
Record states his father was John McDonald..Inverness Scotland..Fisherman..married to Maggie McKenzie..
Child of John and Maggie is Donald McDonald . b 1851 Inverness. Scotland..married Christina McIntyre 1881 in Victoria...
Children of Donald and Christina.. wont name all at present...born at Charlton and Yeungroon Vic.
So I sent away for a marriage certificate..as you do..and received it this week..stating different parents to what I had....on this certificate was parents..Neil McDonald..and Christina Robinson.. and different brides parents.....what I want to know ..which is correct... I cant go off sending certificates without knowing who is who...and I dont have any living relatives that I know of to ask
:o ??? :-[
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I have the name of her parents...Donald McDonald..b 1851 DALEK Post 1.
Dalek,
Is the only source of this information the FAMILY BOOK to which you refer?
I have records..with dates and Reg No's of parents and siblings. DALEK #49
Are these records cetificates or index entries only?
Have you sighted the marriage certificate of Mary Jean Mc DONALD and George Silverton ADAMS?
If it is fully and correctly completed, it will give the maiden name of her mother.
Sue
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Thanks Sparrett...firstly...I have the details of Christina and John West..from the Necropolis at Springvale.
2nd..I dont trust the family book, as there are a few mistakes there..
3rd..In reference to the parents and siblings..I received that with Registration numbers next to them..
4th..No certificate on Mary Jean McDonald.birth...not as yet, as I believed the reg.No's to be indexed..not submitted...
Sorry to sound so official..but just trying to make things clear.. As I am a little inexperienced in all this, I now know that I should have gone for the birth certificate first..but relied on the "indexed" information...My grandmother was not one to keep records, nor other members of the family..which is a shame. :'( ;D
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Just want to thank everyone for their help ..I have sent for a marriage certificate on my grandparents, Mary Jean McDonald..to George Silverton Adams.. and saw that their parents were...Donald McDonald..Contractor of Hamilton area.. and Christine McIntyre also of Hamilton..My Grandmother was born Charlton Victoria 1883...
I am now getting together their background and will post this on the thread when available.. ;D :)
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Christina McIntyre/McDonald....married John West..date unknown..can someone help please, as to whether she did after he died, or was there a divorce.. I have looked at some divorces in Vic, but nothing there.. ??? :)
Have since found out that Christina West was the daughter of Duncan McIntyre, and I think, by her birth date 1854 her mother was Agnes Turner..but she is not my Greatgrandmother... ::) :)
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Christina /McDonald/West was not related to me..Her father was Duncan McIntyre, mother unknown...
My family was (grandmother)...Mary Jean McDonald. b 1883 Charlton Victoria...married George Silverton Adams, 1910 South Yarra, Melbourne Victoria..Reg No.7102A son of Thomas George Adams and Louisa Tilly. His date of birth was 12 Mar.1879 Edwardstown South Australia..
Mary Jean McDonald/Adams was the daughter of Donald McDonald..b..1852 Inverness Scotland.. and Christina McIntyre..born 1857 Collingwood Melbourne Reg.No.4349
Donald McDonald was the son of Neil McDonald, farmer of Yeungroon Victoria...and Christina Robinson. also of Yeungroon Vic..
Christina McIntyre was the daughter of Angus McIntyre Farmer of Yeungroon Victoria..and Anne McGilvray.
Donald and Christina were married at the East Charlton Hotel on 21/5/1881...he was 29Y she 24Y..
I have the list of decendants of Donald McDonald..Neil McDonald..John McDonald..Angus McIntyre and Duncan McIntyre...and the siblings of Christina McIntyre...
Donald McDonald is buried at Hamilton Cemetery..died 1921..age 71..Christina McDonald/McIntyre death and burial unknown at this stage...
I now need to find out where she is, and this done, I can close post... ::) ;D
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I want to thank all those who have helped me with this McDonald family of mine, without your help I would not have been able to do it myself,,,thank you so much. :-* :)
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Donald McDonald is buried at Hamilton Cemetery..died 1921..age 71..Christina McDonald/McIntyre death and burial unknown at this stage...
I now need to find out where she is, and this done, I can close post...
Have you contacted Hamilton Cemetery to see if Christina or anyone is buried with Donald?
And do you have his death certificate as it should state whether his wife was living or deceased at the time of his death.
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There is no MI for Donald McDONALD who died 1921 at the Hamilton Cemetery. I agree you should contact the Hamilton Cemetery to see if Christina is buried in either the same or adjacent grave.
Hamilton Cemetery Trust
77 Kennedy St, Hamilton VIC 3300 (03) 5572 1285
Unfortunately many death certificates in Victoria in the period do not give the marital status of the deceased.
Cando
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Cando..Merlin...have contacted the hamilton Cemetery and waiting for reply...will get back when I hear. thanks for that advise... ;D
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I have just had confirmation that the Donald McDonald buried at Hamilton Cemetery..died 1921..is my greatgrandfather...On his orbituary his daughters names are mentioned, and this confirms it. The names match the names I have of my family members.
I still await the confirmation on Christina McDonald..nee McIntyre.his wife..as there are a few Christinas buried there.......
Thanks to all who helped me...much appreciated... :-* :)
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Hello,
My grandmother was MARGARET FLORANCE MCDONALD
My records indicate that Christina's parents were Angus McIntyre ( BORN 1831 Glencoe, scotland ) and Anne McGillivray
( born Isle of Skye April 10th 1828 , Died Wycheproof 27 July 1902 )
Regards Annette Hubbard
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Dear Annette....your Margaret Florence McDonald was my grandmothers sister...Mary Jean McDonald...born Yeungroon, Victoria 1881.. other sisters were Christina McDonald. b 1886 Charlton....Annie Victoria Louisa. b 1888 Yeungroon Vic..Ethel Robina...b 1893 Charlton Vic. and Margaret Florence.....parents were...Donald McDonald. b 1851/2 Inverness Scotland...and Christina McIntyre..b 1857 Collingwood Melbourne...her parents were...Anne McGillvray, and Angus McIntyre..Farmer of Yeungroon...Victoria...
Donald McDonalds parents..were Neil McDonald..b about 1828 Scotland...and Christina Robertson..( I have it on their marriage certificate Robinson)
I have a lot of family tree members, so you can PM me re details... ;D
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sorry as this is my first post the PM system is not available to me.
Are you in melbourne?
Can you try and PM me?
Annette
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annette....yes I will..... ;D
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Hello,
My grandmother was MARGARET FLORANCE MCDONALD
My records indicate that Christina's parents were Angus McIntyre ( BORN 1831 Glencoe, scotland ) and Anne McGillivray
( born Isle of Skye April 10th 1828 , Died Wycheproof 27 July 1902 )
Regards Annette Hubbard
There doesn't appear to be a death registration for Christina. There are three deaths for a Christina McDONALD in 1902 on the Victorian indexes...at Hotham West [61 years], Romsey [64 years] and Yea [89 years].
Cheers
Cando
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Hello,
My grandmother was MARGARET FLORANCE MCDONALD
My records indicate that Christina's parents were Angus McIntyre ( BORN 1831 Glencoe, scotland ) and Anne McGillivray
( born Isle of Skye April 10th 1828 , Died Wycheproof 27 July 1902 )
There doesn't appear to be a death registration for Christina. There are three deaths for a Christina McDONALD in 1902 on the Victorian indexes...at Hotham West [61 years], Romsey [64 years] and Yea [89 years].
Cando, I think Annette is referring to Anne (McGillivray) McIntyre's death:
MCINTYRE Annie age 70yrs d. 1902 Wproof #12084
Father: Mcgiloray Donald
Mother: Ctina MCDONALD
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Still waiting on information to add to this thread... 8) :)
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what I meant to say was, still waiting on the Hamilton Cemetery on info on Christina McIntyre's death and burial...sorry about that... ;D
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I believe Donald Mcdonald died in hamilton in 1921- I have a map of Hamilton Cemetary with a cross in the Presbyterian Area. This is not marked but most likely a Mcdonald Grave.
Christina Mcdonald I think remarried a JOHN WEST but he died before her in 1921 - she died about 1954.
I believe she may have lived with her daughter Margaret for some time.
I haven't looked for a grave.
I will let you know if I find her.
- ANNETTE
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Annette.. I have found the grave of Christina West...been there , took a photo of it, ...only problem is, I was told that the parents were Duncan McIntyre, mother unknown...I know Christina had a brother Duncan..maybe him... thanks for that...wish I could put photo on the thread, but I dont know how.... :)
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A couple of marriages I would be looking at
MCDONALD Christina
TROETH Joseph
1922 Reg#11466
TROETH Christina
WEST John
1928 Reg#11895
You would need to sight some certificates. Has anyone claimed to have the certificate of Christina McDONALD marrying a John WEST? Has anyone the names of John WEST parents to identify him accurately in the indexes?
Electoral Roll
1909
TROETH Joseph Hamilton Contractor
1924
TROETH Christina Hamilton Place, Hamilton HD
TROETH Joseph Hamilton Place, Hamilton Contractor
1931
WEST Christina Legion Road, Clayton HD
WEST John Legion Road, Clayton Pensioner
1936
WEST Christina 116 Gray Street, Hamilton HD
Cando
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Thanks Cando..you are a gem...will check that out.and get back to you. :-* ;D
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Hi All, I am descended from Angus McIntyre & Annie McGillivray (My GG Grandparents), married 22 Jan 1856 East Lothian, Scotland.
Christina was their oldest daughter (1857-1954)
I descend from her younger brother, Duncan (1859-1946). He married Frances Stella (Fanny) Kemp in 1898 Yuengroon, Victoria, Australia. Their daughter, Olive May (1901-2000) was my grandmother. She married William Gunn Walker in 1926 at St Arnaud, Victoria. They had twin sons, Allan Gordon (my father) and William Keith in 1929.
If I can help with anything along these lines, please let me know.
Regards, Greg Walker