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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Kiowa on Tuesday 16 February 10 15:46 GMT (UK)

Title: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: Kiowa on Tuesday 16 February 10 15:46 GMT (UK)
I am trying to establish the ownership of a couple of houses in CARLISLE CUMBERLAND. According to GOOGLE MAPS the streets are still there, although I seem to remember the houses as original back in the 1960's, I don't know if they have been replaced since. The two (2) streets in question are in the CALDEWGATE area & are :--
LORNE STREET----1888
SHEFFIELD STREET----1901
Unfortunately, the censuses don't give the information as to whether or not the inhabitants owned or rented the dwellings. I do have the house numbers, if anyone can help me.
Many thanks
KIOWA
Title: Re: PROPERTY OWNERSHIP ( CARLISLE )
Post by: morskaj on Wednesday 17 February 10 01:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Kiowa,  In the Denton Holme area a lot of the houses were owned by the nearby factory owners, they were then rented out to the workers of those factories, - eg Mitchell Dryers owned properties in Collingwood Street.  Depending on the period you wish to know about, you would be able to find out who owned them from the archives in Carlisle Castle.  As factories closed, the properties were sold off, sometimes in bulk and sometimes individually.  If you know what an individuals occupation was at the time, you might be able to ascertain whether they owned the property or not.  Hope that helps,  Morskaj.
Title: Re: PROPERTY OWNERSHIP ( CARLISLE )
Post by: morskaj on Wednesday 17 February 10 01:27 GMT (UK)
By the way, Lorne Street and Sheffield Street haven't changed.
Title: Re: PROPERTY OWNERSHIP ( CARLISLE )
Post by: Kiowa on Wednesday 17 February 10 16:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Morskaj, Many thanks for your reply & apologies for my delay.
In Sheffield St. in 1901, the family head was a retired calico printer, I've no idea where he came from or which firm he worked for, & I only have a birth certificate dated 1888 for Lorne St. As you can see,  it's all  a bit vague. You mentioned archives in Carlisle Castle, do you happen to know if they are accessible on line, & if so what the web address is? Incidently,I have'nt knowingly been to Lorne St,& I only stayed the one night in Sheffield St back in the mid 60's, so that's all a bit vague as well, although I seem to remember a fairly, longish road with terrace houses & front doors opening onto the pavement. I shall now continue digging. Kiowa
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: morskaj on Wednesday 17 February 10 20:27 GMT (UK)
Hi again,  There were a few weaving/printing factories in the Denton Holme area, including one on Lorne Crescent, round the corner from Lorne Street.  If you go to http://local.upmystreet.com/pictures-of-ca2-5ds.html, you will find some 'photos of Sheffield Street.  Do you have a name on the birth certificate?  I don't think there is a web site for the archives, but if you have a 'look-up' you want done I will be there during next week as I have something to look up myself.  See you,  Morskaj.
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: Kiowa on Thursday 18 February 10 07:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Morskaj
Many thanks for your reply.In a rush. Will try & P M you later.
Kiowa
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: Deeknight on Saturday 10 August 19 11:39 BST (UK)
I too have family who lived in these streets . I am trying to find out more about Eleanor (Nelly) Dand who had a son Edwin. Her father was a calico printer and a few of them appeared to live opposite each other on both streets.
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 11 August 19 12:28 BST (UK)
Hello

Is this the family Deeknight?

1891
14 Lorne Street, Caldewgate, Carlisle
William Dand Head 67 Widower born Wigton Calico Printer
Mary Dand   Daughter 40 born Carlisle Dress Maker
Eleanor Dand Daughter 26 born Carlisle Domestic servant
William James Dand Son 22 born Carlisle Coach Smith
Edwin Dand Grandson 3 born Carlisle

RG12/4289/80
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 11 August 19 12:40 BST (UK)
1871
Pigeon Street, Murrell Hill, Caldewgate, Carlisle

William Dand Head 47 born Wigton Calico Printer
Jane Dand   Wife 44 born Scotland
Mary Dand   Daughter 20 born Carlisle Dress maker
Betsey Dand Daughter 14 born Carlisle Milliner
Jane A Dand Daughter 11 Scholar
Margare I Dand Daughter 8 born Carlisle
Ellenor Dand Daughter 6 born Carlisle
William Dand Son 2 born Carlisle
George Lambe Boarder 8 born Scotland
James Lambe Boarder 6 born Carlisle

RG10/5221/168/45
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 11 August 19 12:42 BST (UK)
Did Eleanor have another son called Sydney?
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: Deeknight on Sunday 11 August 19 12:56 BST (UK)
Yes he had a brother called Sidney, I have a photo of the two of them somewhere. Edwins son William James born 1913 was my grandfather. .thank you for replying. I am new to this and just working out how to reply myself sorry .
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: Deeknight on Sunday 11 August 19 13:05 BST (UK)
That is definitely the same family yes.
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 11 August 19 13:10 BST (UK)
What sort of information are you looking for?
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: Deeknight on Sunday 11 August 19 13:15 BST (UK)
Who the father of Edwin and Sydney were, who owed the houses in Sheffield street and Lorne street and what happened to them. Where did Nelly go. As her brother appears to live in Sheffield street in 1901 . I was amazed to see someone asking about my family as I have been recently looking at the photos etc and just joined this :)
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 11 August 19 13:34 BST (UK)
The phone book for 1962 shows a Sydney Dand at Punton Road, Carlisle.
Sydney Dand born in 1892 died in 1973 aged 81
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 11 August 19 13:48 BST (UK)
I have sent you a couple of messages DeeKnight
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: josey on Sunday 11 August 19 13:49 BST (UK)
Who the father of Edwin and Sydney were

DAND, EDWIN       - 
GRO Reference: 1888  M Quarter in CARLISLE  Volume 10B  Page 464
DAND, SIDNEY       - 
GRO Reference: 1892  J Quarter in CARLISLE  Volume 10B  Page 527
It's unlikely the father(s) would be named on these birth certificates, though possibly may be named on a baptism. Do you have the baptisms Deeknight? Or either of the sons' marriage certificates? Did Eleanor ever marry?
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 11 August 19 13:51 BST (UK)
There is a marriage for Sydney Dand and Elizabeth H Scott in 1938 Carlisle
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 11 August 19 13:53 BST (UK)

   
Sydney Dand
Event Type:Military Service
Event Year:1917
Residence Place:Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Age:   24
Military Company/Regiment:Grenadier Guards
Military Regiment:28579
Military Battalion:5th Reserve Battalion
Birth Year (Estimated):1893
Birthplace:Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 11 August 19 14:00 BST (UK)
It looks like Sydney was married twice

1911 to Jessie  Elfreda Keighley  at St Mary's Church, Carlisle

When he enlisted in the army, his address was 66 Goodwin Terrace, Burrock?

He was discharged in 1920.
There were some children from this marriage.
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: Gan Yam on Sunday 11 August 19 15:53 BST (UK)

When he enlisted in the army, his address was 66 Goodwin Terrace, Burrock?

I think this should read Currock, which is just on the outskirts of Carlisle
1871
Pigeon Street, Murrell Hill, Caldewgate, Carlisle
and this one is Pugin Street

It looks like Jessie  was born in Sydney NSW, re 1911 census.  Jessie and Sydney appear to have had 6 children, one, Jessie Eleanor, died as a baby in 1917.

I think that its more likely that the houses in Lorne Street and Sheffield Street would have been rented.  There were several large cotton/fabric manufacturers in the immediate area. However there is an advert in the Carlisle Patriot in 5 Dec 1873 for a house for sale in Sheffield Street.
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: Deeknight on Wednesday 14 August 19 13:12 BST (UK)
Can someone please tell me how to get the baptism record for Edwin or Sydney? And how I find out parents of the last I have.. Edwin Dand..son of Eleanor ( father unknown atm) her father and mother were William Dand born abt 1826 to Jane Scott from Scotland. Then his father and mother.. William Dand born 1790 to Mary Sparks...but can anyone help who's next? I will join a site if someone can recommend the best too. Thank you Dee
Title: Re: Property ownership (Carlisle)
Post by: josey on Wednesday 14 August 19 14:29 BST (UK)
They may have been baptised at at CoE church or a non-conformist church/chapel. They may not have been baptised though that as quite unusual at the time, or they may have been baptised later in life [say just before marriage].

Here are the church records held by Familysearch [free website though you have to register] for Carlisle churches
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01o7a/.

There may be an online parish clerk for Carlisle who can access parish registers. Try also
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/index.php?county=107&form_action=county
for Cumberland. I can see nothing on ancestry or findmypast.