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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: dandylion on Saturday 20 February 10 11:27 GMT (UK)
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Hi,does anyone have any info on William and Ellen Charlesworth? I know that Ellen was originaly Ellen Parkin born 1827 in Worsbourgh, she married John Riley in 1844 and had a son Henry born 1844. Then she married William in 1848 in Ardsley and they had at least 7 children including Joseph who I am reserching. I can't find a deffinate birth for father William, does anyone have any more info on him? Another mystery I have come across is that acording to the 1891 census Joseph was married to a Louisa fron the USA, but on the 1901 census he is a widower and louisa is a visiting widow calling herself Louisa Barton! The children are still on the census but Jessie is now a visitor and also called Barton. I can find no record of a marriage of Joseph and Louisa either in England or the USA. This has me stumped, any ideas where I can go with this? Thanks, Rowena.
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Hi Rowena,
I think I can solve one of your puzzles!
Wm CHARLESWORTH
Christened 04 March 1804, Darton, Yorkshire
Mother, ANNE Charlesworth
Ok, so it looks like he was illegitimate.
His Mother Ann HAIGH, born c 1777, Hemsworth, Yks, appears on 1851 Census with him and Wife Ellen, Son George age 2, Joseph 2mths and Henry RILEY age 6.
There is this possible Marriage ( spellings were often a little out then)
Ann CHARLESWORTH
Samuel HAGUE
14 January 1811, Darfield, Yorkshire
( all extracted records IGI at Familysearch)
Trish :)
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Thank you Trish, I will dig deeper into this info. Rowena. :)
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Ann is on 1841 Census alone in Darfield and appears to be in the Workhouse age 84 in 1861 in Barnsley. She is pretty consistent with her Date and POB, 1777, Hemsworth. In 1861 it is indexed as Emsworth.
Did Charles die post 1851? Sad I think that she ended up in a Workhouse.
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Hi Trish, Finaly found her on the census of 1841 and 1861 after jiggling the spelling about. I can't find the death for samuel in the BMD's up to 1841 as there are 6 possibles in just those years, name is too common in yorkshire. I haven't been able to find Anns birth in 1777 at Hemsworth yet but i'll keep hunting. Rowena
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A Female Charlesworth born 28 May 1777 christened Kirk Bramwith (less than 10 miles from Hemsworth) father Alexander Charlesworth Mother Elizabeth.
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Not sure of the William Charlesworth christened Darton 1804. There is a William Charlesworth, right age, still in Darton area in 1841 and 1851 census.
Census does say place of birth Ardsley, Barnsley for the William Dandylion seeks. Worth looking at is William Charlesworth b 22 Dec 1806 to William and Mary Charlesworth - christened at Wath - grandfather George Charlesworth, maternal grandfather Thomas Watson.
There was a Charlesworth family in Darton early 1800's (James C married Elizabeth ? Darton 1826) but they seemed to stay around the area.
Ann Charlesworth Haigh Hague seems worth chasing. Darfield is only 2 miles from Ardsley :)
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Hi Ebch, I already have this William from Wath on my list of possibles, but thank you for writing and finding him for me. Rowena. :)
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Hi Rowena,
It is possible that the 1804 Christening I found is not him but by Census entry Ann is his Mother.
What does Williams Marriage Cert to Ellen have on it?
Trish :)
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Hi Trish, Sorry don't have wedding cert, all info is from census and freeBMD site. Rowena.
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Hi Rowena,
May I suggest that you purchase that Marriage Cert as it may hold the key to your enquiry.
Reasons;
-- I have been unable to find William conclusively in 1841 census alone. There are a few married ones.
-- As he was in his 40's when marrying Ellen he may have been married before and you may have other Charlesworth relatives.
-- The Witnesses on the Cert may be relevant to your research.
-- If their is no Father named for him then we can be pretty sure Ann/Anne is his Mother.
-- It should say if he is a Widower etc.
Certs are are INCREDIBLY important to make sure we are following the right Family line.
They also often hold incredible info.
All I had on my G/G/G/Grandmother was that she appeared on the 1841 Census in Northumberland , born 1766, Scotland.
Her 1846 Death Cert said " Widow of Robert Reid, Weaver of Chirnside, Berwickshire, Scotland"
How amazing was that ;D
Without that info I would have been unable to search further back.
I strongly urge you to get the Cert.
Cheers,
Trish :)
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Just to pique your interest there is this possible Marriage;
William CHARLESWORTH/Rebecca WILSON, 12 April 1827, Darfield.
+ i in 1834 to Mary KAY in Darfiled
( all extracted IGI)
And that is only supposing they are from the same Parish as if he did marry before the spouse could be from anywhere even another County and they married there.
As Ebch kindly stated Darfield is only 2 miles from Ardsley.
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Hi, I hate to throw a spanner in the works, but I have Ellen as being Ellen Riley with her parents (Bernard and Mary from Ireland). I have 1841 census for her as being 15, but then 2 of her other siblings were also 15, I am sure they weren't triplets. I also have marriage cert dated 1848 William Charlesworth (Widower) Miner at Ardsley and Ellen Riley Spinster her father Bernard Riley, weaver. Witnesses George Pickering and Caroline Walton. Does this help? I guess this shows she didn't marry John Riley first, but she did have that first son Henry Riley in 1845.
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Welcome to Rootschat paperwork.
Thank you for that interesting info.
As you say Ellen was nee Riley;
Thanks to the newish GRO index these things can be checked now and it was not possible in 2010 when Rowena 1st posted this query.
GRO Index;
Birth Reg's
CHARLESWORTH, GEORGE, Mothers mn RILEY**
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in ECCLESFIELD Volume 22 Page 155
RILEY, HENRY , no Mothers mn (illegitimate)
GRO Reference: 1844 S Quarter in ECCLESFIELD Volume 22 Page 141
Hopefully Rowena willll reply to this, she hasnt been on here since 2015.
Does William name a Father on the 1848 M/C?
Trish :)
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No father's name for Henry Riley on Marriage Cert. William and Ellen Charlesworth were my Great, Great Grandparents.
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No, I meant does William Charlesworth name a Father on the 1848 M/C?
Just trying to establish his Mother was Ann Charlesworth who married Samuel Hague.
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Hi - William Charlesworth (husband of my 3rd great aunt born 20 Nov 1803, Ardsley West Yorkshire. Parents Joshua Charlesworth 1776- ? and Ann Senior/Haigh 1777-1862
Married Ellen Riley 14 May 1848. He was in Ardsley in 1851 and Barnsley in 1861, His death is registered Jan 1864.
Ellen Riley my great aunt x3 1826-1902
Children -
Henry 1845-1920
George 1849-1926
Joseph 1851-1902
Mary 1853-1930
William John 1855-1934
Sophia 1856-1935
Michael 1860-1942
Walter 1863-1954
Sarah 1865-1928
paperwork - looks as tho' we have a couple of things in common here and I cannot recall if we have been in touch before (I think not) you will have to bear with me as all internet lines in my area are in a hell of a mess and haam having problems trying to get back to normal.
Hoping this is allowed.....quite correct - Ellen's parents were Bernard Riley and Mary ?
Hope to hear from you ..regards Patvp
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Hi patvp1
I am only feeling my way around this site, so I dont know where anything is, or quite what I am allowed to do, but yes, that is my family. I am a little confused about Ann Senior/Haigh, I am not sure whether her maiden name was Senior or Charlesworth. I have a couple of confusing baptism records one August I think where William Charlesworth was baptised (mother Ann Charlesworth, no father in tow) and one where William Charlesworth (illegitimate) was baptised March 4th mother (Ann Charlesworth late Ann Senior widow of unreadable) both in the same year, I do have the census where Ann Haigh is living with William when she is 74, and receiving parish support. My great grandfather was William's son Michael.
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Ardsley Church in Darfield. May 11th or May 16th 1848. Name:William Charlesworth and Ellen Riley. Both full age. Widower and Spinster. William's job: Miner. Both from Ardsley. Only father shown: Bernard Riley, who was a Weaver. Both signed with Xs Witness George Pickering signed his name, Caroline Walton put x
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As no Father is named on the 1848 M/C then I think William was the illeg Son of Ann Charlesworth.
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I wonder about this other baptism that said 'illegitimate son of Ann Charlesworth late Senior, widow of illegible', I wonder if her maiden name was Senior or Charlesworth, she obviously was Charlesworth at the time of giving birth to William. I suppose Senior could be a made up name, but she obviously had told them that William was not of the previous 'marriage'. I am not sure if there were two Ann Charlesworths in the area who gave birth to two William Charlesworths in the same year, or the same Ann had William baptised twice. One was C of E, one was non-conformist, did C of E get at her, and tell her the baptism wasn't valid, or something. Could make up theories forever.
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A JOSHUA Charlesworth married Anne SENIOR 26 December 1803, Darton, York
As William C was christened 04 March 1804, Darton time frame seems tight
What is the date on this Bapt ? "llegitimate son of Ann Charlesworth late Senior, widow of illegible"
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Baptism 1: 04 Mar 1804: Wm illegitimate son Ann Charlesworth late Ann Senior, Widow of ?????????
Baptism 2: 12 Aug 1804: William Son of Ann Charlesworth, born 20 July 1804. (No mention of Senior.)
These are both copperplate handwritten, squashed up, and things from line above and below might be for the actual line, for instance, on Baptism 1, illegitimate might be for the line above and not for Wm, but I doubt it.
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Most first babies were conceived well before marriage, at least in the families I have looked at, My own grandmother was married in July had her first child in October that year. So if you have a date of marriage of Ann Senior marrying Joshua Charlesworth and her having a baby 3 months later, I think that would be pretty normal. Perhaps the curate thought it was a lie and wrote illegitimate on the book, or perhaps it was for the previous entry. Ann couldn't read so wouldn't know what he had written. But not sure if this Ann Senior is our ancestor if there were two Ann Charlesworths, because father isn't mentioned on that M cert. It would be interesting to find a burial date for Joshua C. I'm just thinking, perhaps as Wm had never known his father, he might just have said that he had never had a father, instead of saying his father was dead. The person writing it down could only go by what they were told. Still a question mark about this I think.
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Ha ha, I just found that Ellen Riley's sister, Mary Ann, also got married on the same day as Ellen and William Charlesworth. Now I know that marriage was definitely 16th May 1848. Same place, I guess it was a double wedding. So pleased to find a little bit of joy in their hard lives.