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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: Chris Penrose on Sunday 20 March 05 07:27 GMT (UK)
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In my search for a Penros further back than 1195, I came across a village in France originally called Penros, and thought that some French soldiers may have come from here. However, it has been suggested to me by a CFHS member that some Cornish Celts fleeing Anglo-Saxon etc oppression went to Brittany and formed settlements, before returning to England in later centuries. Certainly there is no indication of any Penros or Penrose in France.
Has anyone any thoughts or info on this?
Chris Penrose
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Hello Chris,
I'm wondering if you have come across the Penvose spelling of the name? I at first believed the name was changed when the family immigrated to the US, but have been in touch with one line of the family, now living in Barnsley, Yorkshire, and they also use the Penvose spelling. The earliest ancestor I've been able to locate is John Penvose born circa 1821 in St. Austell. He married Jane Blewett in Tywardreath in 1847, and died there in what I assume was a mining accident, in 1866. All his children, except Edward Penvose, immigrated to the US in the early to mid 1870's, settling in Tioga Co., PA then later in Clearfield Co., PA.
The spelling variation has been a mystery to me for years, so if you have any thoughts on this subject, I'd appreciate hearing from you!
Thank you, Dorothy
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Dear Dorothy
If you would like to contact me my email is MODERATOR COMMENT: email address removed to avoid spamming. Please use secure Personal massage system to share email addresses and personal information.
I have records back to 1613 so far, and will see what I can find. I am putting everything on a spreadsheet and will try and link the families that I can.
Regards
Chris Penrose
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Dear Dorothy
I am confining my searches to the UK - I assume you have the US covered - and I can't afford to come over!?
It is 1.15am now and I am calling it a night.
Origin of Penvose: I am fairly sure that it was Penros(e) to start with. Names were corrupted for reasons of language and custom. Illiteracy was common so someone could write the name wrongly in the records and it would stick. 5th May 1663 Francis Penvose married Elynor Badge in Falmouth: her name changed on baptism of two children to Ellenor and Ellener, and when buried was recorded as Eleanor. Also, if you write down Penrose quickly it can be read as Penvose.
The Cornish burr could be misunderstood. I am sure you have spoken to many English people and heard different accents and could not understand some of them.
With my membership of the CFHS I will look up the Penvoses as they have more information cross-referenced and the 1861 and 1871 censuses are now pretty complete - they also have 1891 free.
The couple who are going around Cornwall recording all burial and memorial sites are doing well and gradually all information is going on FHO. I heard a talk by them in January in Truro and they are doing a smashing job.
Nearly all information on Family History Online is input by local societies, whereas IGI/LDS information is often the opposite. Although local societies are also prone to error, remoteness leads to confusion over local geography and names. Like recording the town of "Cornwall" in "Devon" - sorry, but this is an absolute sin as we Cornish have strong feelings about our nationality!
By the way: where are you based? I am an expatriate Redruthian in Leeds, West Yorkshire.
I am going to have lots of info pretty soon so would need your address or email to send it to.
Best wishes
Chris Penrose
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hi chris,i just wondered if your an ancester of the penroses from redruth.as i am.i have got back down to 1500s.and so far i have managed to keep the name penros/e intact.was very interested in your theory though.julie.
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Hi Julie
Like my sister, I was born in Redruth Children's Hospital: Mum was born in Truro, and Dad was accidentally born in Barnstaple (!) when his Mum went into labour.
We would be related - albeit distantly - as all Penroses are supposed to derive from Philip in 1195, although I have another posting enquiring about that.
As to just how far apart, that depends on who you have gone back to, and then working in which is our common great times ?grandfather.
Hope to hear from you..
Regards
Chris Penrose
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hi chris, thank you for replying.my earliest ones from redruth are richard penrose 1856.and kate jose born 1860.richards dad being
john penrose 1824. who married prudence trevana1823.i then follow back to 1560 with richard penrose who married dennes,if i havent wrote it right or you need more to tell if we are linked let me know.im still learning,i have spoke to a few penroses from redruth and cornwall area,and find it wonderfull that so many of us are tracing.i lso speak online to a penrose in durham who is my second cousin and he has been very kind.best wishes julie. :)
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Julie
He had a son called William who died in 1686 in St Clement.
I have his will from the Cornish Record Office as he is my GGGGGGGGG Grandfather.
It goes Me, Ronald John, Frederick John, Frederick, Joseph, Joseph, Joseph, William, Jeptha, William, Joseph, William.
I have a copy of William's will if you would like to email your address to me on the address on my details.
Are you still in Cornwall? I am up in Leeds, myself.
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Theres a saying about Cornish surnames, dont know if you know it -
"by Tre, Pol and Pen ye shall know Cornishmen"
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Dear XPhile2868
Quite right, too.
I was walking past the site of the Hey Green Mills near Marsden the other day, which is in a valley that looks exactly like a Cornish semi-tidal valley complete with steep sided creek with layers showing where water has been travelling along the bank at different levels. this was at 270metres above sea-level.
My point is that someone has renamed a nearby row of cottages "Trevella". Turns out that the family now living there is from Cornwall and wanted to recreate that little bit of home.
Regards
Chris
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I also have Penrose ancestors from Cornwall. Arthur Penrose, baptised 1777 in Redruth, left Cornwall just after 1804 to move to Tavistock in Devon. One of his sons (my gg grandfather), also called Arthur, was baptised there in 1816 and by 1841 had moved to London. Would love to swap Penrose ancestry with anyone.
Gillian from Berkshire
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hi gillian,its nice to here from you.my earliest penrose is in 1560.richard.
my closest ones to your arthur are richard 1773 and john 1799.both from redruth.maybe we have a connection .will be fun to find out.best wishes julie. ;D
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Hi all!a very interesting bit of to+fro there,my small contribution concerns a part of the name which might help a bit.
Pre 1100,s is going to be difficult ,but 'Ros',Rhus',Rhos',Rhoss',Rose',as you know all indicate Red,'as it is used for Russia.
Also ,(and I honestly hope I'm not teaching anyone to suck eggs here!)there is Roseland in Cornwall,Rhos in Wales,and almost directly opposite a Rhos in Ireland.
All well and good ?Maybe a look at Scotland,+east coast names may turn up a connection?
Even a plain Redman?
Twisted logic!Goggy
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Goggy: don't even go there! Scotland, that is! Penrose is Cornish Cornish Cornish! If you are Cornish you are close to being struck off!!
Hi again julie - more left on your email.
Welcome to the fray, Gillian. Sometime we will have to persuade someone to put the 1560-1716 PRs from Redruth online from the book by Thurston C. Peter which is in both the Cornish Studies Centre in Redruth and the Morrab Library in Penzance. This book predates the Phillimores books, and Phillimore and the Reverend Taylor made a conscious decision not to duplicate their work.
The contents of this book are listed only on the Morrab Library Online website.
I have not seen this Peter book, only having found out about it last week, but if anything like the introductions to the Phillimores it will make great reading. One anecdote tells of £1 in beer being given to people for work on the registers! This sort of thing makes family history so less dry and more interesting.
As to the the Redruth Penroses, if they are directly related it will be within a couple of generations. Otherwise it will be a case of movement between the Cornish mines and thus parishes. Julie, Dorothy, Ruth, and Darren are already in touch with me - feel free to email me on the MSN address on my members profile.
All the best
Chris Penrose
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Hi Chris, I also have Penrose on my tree; I have John Penrose b? mar Elizabeth Hill 30/10/1786 had son James 14/10/1787 in St Just. I also have another John Penrose b? mar Anne Unknown & had a son William b1826 mar Mary Jacka, they had son William Thomas b1859, Daughters, Eva Jane b 1859, Elizabeth b1866, Grace Jacka b1863.
I have a Thomas mar Jane Warren & daughter Amelia b31/11/1871 St Just & I have James Penrose b c1780 mar Jennifer Bond 28/3/1825. Are these Penroses linked do you know please? Sincerely Emsey.
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Dear Emsay
The Johns go up a different line from mine, but we are all linked in some way, 80% sure to the Penros(e)s around Helston in the 13th century then back in some way via another line. I received Phillimore's Domesday book this morning so that might provide a springboard. ??
From William Penrose (d. 1686) I go up the St Clement 'Josephs' over to Falmouth to my GGrandfather.
There are a few candidates for John's birth: 17/03/1754; 01/05/1750. It is a process of elimination (Excuse me for repeating anything you already know).
A John Penrose married Mary Jelbard in St Just in 1774, and another one Judith Pellew in St Just in 1791. No Johns made it to the 1841 census unfortunately.
I have looked at my Phillimore marriages CD and the lack of alternate Parishes for either indicates that both resided there as opposed to someone from out-of-town.
Batch P020311 covers a multitude of sins, and the IGI Batch number sequence can be found by pasting this into your browser - save it to your bookmarks/favourites
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyCornwall.htm#S
Another useful resource is http://www.cornwalleng.com/
And a link for genealogy for St Just-in-Penwith (as opposed to Roseland) is: http://west-penwith.org.uk/just1.htm
There were a lot of these Johns and on a future Cornish Penrose genealogy website we can have a sub-section to sorting them all out.
If I come across anything else I will let you know and you can of course send me a personal message using the address in my profile.
Kind regards for your interest in this topic
Chris Penrose
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Hi Chris, thanx for the answer & the addies. I also have Pascoe, Bennetts & Stephens on my tree, regards, Emsey.
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Hello Chris
I have been reading all your Penrose/Penros/ Penvose information with interest.
I was wondering if you have come across my family.
My PENROSE family lived round St Just in Penwith and appear to be descended from Roger PENROSE born c 1638 and Margaret THOMAS born c 1643.
Any information would be most welcome especially if there was some connection between our families.
Regards from
Jill Penrose
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Jill
I am very interested in discreetly adding Penroses to my contact list at the moment. If you are interested, then send me a personal message with your email address and I will send out an invitation from my group.
The free online resources for old BMDs in West Penwith are still slowly going on the GENUKI Genealogy pages, and are not complete yet for St Just.
I am however having some success in unravelling the maze of inter-relationships with the Penroses in the area.
I would make clear that ALL Penroses are related. It is just a question of going finding the common rdescendant to each of us.
Hope to hear from you soon.
All the best
Chris
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Hi Jill, I'm the Marilyn that Chris is referring to, you are Welcome to join our group, I think there are 3 Penrose researchers in our group. If you check my tree you will see the Hattam tree link that Chris is referring to & also another couple who may also have them.
we would be happy for you, or any researcher to join us, happy hunting, Marilyn. ::)
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I now know from my CD of the Cornwall Visitations that I go back to Penrose of Sennen, and then it is a question of finding where this links in with Penrose of Sithney.
I have a great number of books and some CDs now so if anyone wants to contact me please do so either by replies on this board, or a personal message.
All the best
Chris
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Hello Chris
My Penrose family lived in St Just.
I have found proof going back until I reached James Penrose born 9 April 1667 married Jane Davies. For the line further up the tree a Mormon person has given the information and I cannot read the films as the copies are too faint. Do you have any proof of :-
This James, hid parents, Roger Penrose baptised 2 Sept 1838 married Margaret Thomas on 1 Sept 1666 all at St Just.
Do you have any information further up the tree.
Regards from
Jill Penrose
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Jill
Can you confirm those years please.
Chris
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Dear Jill
First of all, James's brothers and sisters can be found on IGI on the LDS website by the following search:
Penrose, Birth/Christening, 1667 - 1687, Cornwall, England, British Isles
Father: Roger
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: P020311
A feature of this is that there are two Margarets because the first one died in infancy, which is reflected in the record.
My list of Penrose marriages from the Cornish Studies Centre leads me to my Phillimores CD which shows the marriage of James and Jane on 18th February 1709.
Then, five children are listed from batch P020311
Penrose, Birth/Christening, 1708 - 1728, Cornwall, England, British Isles
Father: James
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: p020311
A feature of this is that again there is an infant death. This time there are two Marys because the first one died in infancy, which is reflected in the record.
You will be descended from James b. 28th September 1709, because the other son died in infancy on 7th November 1723.
From here it is speculative, but if it comes up to where you know ..............?
My Cd shows the next James marries Elizabeth Wallis on 5th November 1733
There are seven children listed from this search, none of which show an infant mortality.
Penrose, Birth/Christening, 1733 - 1753, Cornwall, England, British Isles
Father: James
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: p020311
Four sons John, William, James, and Richard
Does this help?
All the best
Chris Penrose
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Jill
About the date of Roger's birth. I concur that 1638 is a decent date of birth.
As far as IGI go there is a problem with the Roger Penrose listed as born 2nd September 1683 as it is too much of a coincidence.
The Phillimores go to 1599, with a guesstimate of the marriage of Roger's father as 1632 +/- 5 years.
Hence the need to be sure about the date.
From there it is just a few or even one generation to the visitations of Cornwall.
If the 1683 date is correctthen we are looking foir
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Jill
Good morning.
I have just looked again at the Phillimores Marriage Lists and there are no Penroses married at St Just prior to Roger in 1666.
The history of Cornwall churches is an interesting one with many suspending certain ceremonies for up to a year, but no Penroses listed prior to 1666 leaves it up in the air a bit.
The comments made by the marriage register transcribers do not fill me with optimism. However, it is a question of casting around a bit and looking at all available records. I cannot believe a whole family can go missing at a time when the British fascination with records and cross-referencing had already begun.
The Tax/Subsidy records might help, so I will take this with me when I am up at my University on Wednesday. Leeds does not have the muster rolls, so if anyone else can help.............???
All the best
Chris
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Hello Chris
Thanks for the prompt reply.
All the Penroses you refer to are mine.
I agree with you that the 2 Rogers one B 2 Sept 1638 and "his son" B 2 Sept 1683 are probibly a mis transcription. Roger B 1683 sounds OK but as I have no more infor about the other one will eliminate him as he is not relevent to my tree.
Appart from Roger B 1683 and his son James B 1667 all their descendents I have found on films of the church records so am pretty sure they are correct.
Regards from
Jill Penrose
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Hello again Chris
I only have access to church records filmed by LDS so any more infor would be greatly appreciated.
Like you I wonder where the Penrose family was hiding prior to 1638.
From late 1800,s the family were either Baptists or Methodists.
I look forward to seeing if you can enlighten me.
Thanks Regards from Jill Penrose in New Zealand
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Hi there
I am writing an essay on Middle Wharfedale place-names and have been looking in my copy of Reverend Henry Barber's British Family Names (1903)
On Page 12 it quotes Richard Verstegan from 1673:
'In Foord, in Ham, in Ley, in Tun
The most of English surnames run'
But this is only a partial statement, as Camden (1610) says in his Magna Britannia:
'By Tre, Ros, Lan, Car, Pol, and Pen,
Ye shall know the most Cornishmen'
Localities, Personal Names, Settlements, and Topography being the prime-determinants, adjusted down the centuries to reflect language and literacy, invaders, and style (among others).
Chris Pen-ros(e)
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The Cornish Surnames site (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~kernow/names_p.htm) suggests pen-rose, 'end of moor', for Penrose, and 'pen-fos', ditch-end, for Penvose.
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Hi Chris,
My name is Carrie. I did research on my great grandmother in Grad school, and traced her father's line back to Philip de Penros. You may find the following helpful.
I have managed to trace the Penrose clan back to about the year 1195. This line begins with Philip de Penros (abt. 1195 Cornwall, England). He lived in Escalls, France for a time, and had three sons, Robert Penros de Escalls (abt. 1221 Escalls, France), Michael Penros de Escalls (abt. 1248 Escalls, France) and Roger de Penros (abt. 1250 Sithney, Cornwall). It appears they moved back to England between the births of Michael and Roger. Robert Penros de Escalls’ son, Roger de Penros (abt. 1250 Sithney, Cornwall) is next in line.
Roger de Penros’ son was Richard de Penrees (abt. 1278 Sithney, Cornwall), who married a woman only known as Katherine in 1296. They had seven children between 1297 and 1309, five of whom married a Vivyan, a de Bosfrancan (2), a de Botyoulen, and a Le Archer. John de Penros (abt. 1299 Penwith, Sennen, Cornwall) was Roger and Katherine’s second son, who married, Nichola Vivyan (abt. 1301 Sennen, Cornwall), around the year 1320. John and Nichola had six children between 1321 and 1329...
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I am interested to know how your ancestors got over there and from where.
Your research is very helpful, as I now know where the John Penrose of Sennen links into the Sithney family tree shown on the 16th-17th century visitations of Cornwall. It also tells me that the Sennen tree is in fact a branch.
I link into the Penrose of Sennen branch through William, son of the Bennett Penrose who married three times.
I have loads of resources here including some 19th century books, either original, facsimile, or on CD: so any questions, please ask. You have surely earned it!
The thing now is to find where Phillip appears, and his ancestors. Not just a question of popping down to my local library (in Yorkshire) or a Cornish Registry Office!
There are thousands of original documents held around the world in private or publically-owned collections - a few at Harvard.
http://www.law.harvard.edu/library/collections/special/manuscripts/deeds/deeds1.php
Some day the facts will emerge, when someone like you is carrying out further research.
Many thanks again
Chris
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Hi Chris,
I'm glad you found this helpful. Would you care to see the rest of my findings? It is lengthy, but in prose format - perhaps I can email it to you? I've traced the Sennen line through the eldest sons (wherever possible) from 1195 to the present. There may be more clues for you to branch out from.
Also, as I've been trying to find out about Philip in Escalls, it turns out that there is/was a village of Escalls in Cornwall...?... I'm curious to find out if Escalls was related to the area surrounding Epernay, France. Perhaps there are records to be had in Cornwall - especially who Philip Penros was aligned with that sent him to France, or perhaps who his parents were. Perhaps they were the french connection? My research is continuing - I believe we are looking for the same information. Please let me know what you find, and I will share as well.
Cheers, Carrie
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FYI - I have now found Escalles, France and am searching for records. It is not a part of Epernay - it is Calais. Hmm. Is there a John of Gaunt (Plantagenet) connection? I know he was married to Isabella of Castile, yet his many campaigns into France prior to this wedding may have brought Philip's father to Cornwall? Far fetched, and yet, you never know... ? Or perhaps I need to be researching the lists of William the Conqueror - it would make sense that Philip's ancestor came over from Normandy with him. There is a record of the Lord d'Escalles fighting.
Thanks for the offer of your records, etc. I do appreciate it.
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I know there is a branch of this family in Chile, South America. My great great grandmother was Vitalia Penros Bravo (in Chile we use both father and mother surname). Apparently her ancestor was Fernando Penros (names are traditionally translated to Spanish so his name was probably Ferdinand or Fernand), born in "Bretana" (Spanish word for Britain or Brittany, I'm not sure which of the two) in 1672; arrived to Chile more less in 1719. Established in the city of Chillán, where he died on October 2nd, 1754. Married María Garrido, and had issue:
- José Antonio, born in Chillán, married at the Parish of San Isidro, Santiago, to Beatriz Hidalgo, daughter of Lorenzo Hidalgo and Rosa de Orozco, with issue.
- María Josefa, born in Chillán and married there in 1745 to Rafael Hermosilla, with issue.
Source: Padre Luis de Roa, "EL REYNO DE CHILE, 1535-1810", page 835.
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This is a link to a pretty good genealogy resource, that has piqued my interest:
http://horwitzfam.org/getperson.php?personID=I17621&tree=Complete
All the best
Chris
PS I still want to contact more rellies.
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I searched the Spanish Wikipedia, and Bretana is Brittany (Britain is Gran Bretana).
Stephen :)
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This is a link to a pretty good genealogy resource, that has piqued my interest:
http://horwitzfam.org/getperson.php?personID=I17621&tree=Complete
All the best
Chris
PS I still want to contact more rellies.
Yes, it's an interesting link but gives no information about my ancestor. Thank you anyway.
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Chris / Julie
I have just seen this site! I did much research on Penroses years ago, and have a fair amount of material. For those of you who are Redruth, my records go back to Richard c.1625-1691 m. Jone/Joan. Wd certainly like to hear from you.
(Although it may be the case, I am not convinced that Penvose and Penrose are the same - they mean very different things in Kernewek, and are distinct geographical names: still there is much room for misprints!!!)
Not sure if you all follow this site still as I see the postings are old, but
Kind regards
Perran Penrose (Liskeard)
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Hi Perran
Welcome to the debate! I tend to agree with the Penvose identity as separate from Penrose, although the writing in some parish registers and censuses do look like each other. I have separately invited contributions from descendants of Bennett Penrose such as yourself, and am in regular contact with one lady in California as well as in the UK.
One snippet for you is that the French coastal town of Perros-Guirec in Brittany used to be called "Penros". One of these decades I might get around to going over there!
All the best
Chris
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Chris
I know Brittany well and visit several times a year.
I note you recommend the vast horwitzfam site. I think it is based on the inaccurate Salt Lake City Penrose records, many of which I don't think are properly verified. Eg I am descended directly from John Penrose bp 1673 m Jane Richards, son of John and Constance Bawden, but on that site John is a dead end - there is a will, and documentary evidence. If I recall they mixed up a Richard and a John at some point... But I am fascinated by all the pre-parish records conjectures - where is the evidence for them?
I don't see clearly the line from Bennett but that is something I would like to see evidence of! My earliest evidence is Richard who is buried in Redruth 9/8/1691 (m Jone/Joan).
I would certainly like to discuss your documentation and would be very happy to share mine - my missing parts are the later Tavistock connections, which is frustrating as Tavistock is next door, so I need to get to work on that!
Which part of the tribe to you come from?
Regards - Perran
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I have since decided that the horwitz site has too many inaccuracies. There are people married to the wrong spouses, inappropriate relationships, plain mistakes and so on.
Someone still living is shown as being the daughter of her only slightly-older brother. All is not what it seems.
In comparison with those who normally contact me from overseas you are in the enviable position of being IN Cornwall. I can only get down from Leeds twice a year at best.
So I would advise a visit to the Family History Society base in Victoria Square, Truro, followed by the Cornwall Record Office (near the train station) for wills and parish registers.
All the best
Chris
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I also have Penrose ancestors from Cornwall. Arthur Penrose, baptised 1777 in Redruth, left Cornwall just after 1804 to move to Tavistock in Devon. One of his sons (my gg grandfather), also called Arthur, was baptised there in 1816 and by 1841 had moved to London. Would love to swap Penrose ancestry with anyone.
Gillian from Berkshire
Dear Gillian
I am not sure if you received (or if I actually sent) a reply to your email of over a year ago. Your Arthur b 1777 is my gg grandfather, and the Penrose family tree is very skimpy on the Tavistock side. Would love to hear from you... Kind regards, Perran Penrose (Liskeard)
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Hi from Australia. Is this thread still active - last post I can find is from 2005. I just joined RootsChat today.
I am researching Penrose & Polglase from Cornwall. My Penroses are from St Agnes area, though there are a few hiccups of recent times. They are:
Thomas Penrose married Margaret(t) Tippit 13 Aug 1791 at St Agnes, nr Truro
Children:
Edward Penrose c 9 Jun 1793, mar Jenifer Julian 10 Nov 1824
Esther Penrose c 19 Oct 1794
Mary Penrose c 16 Oct 1796, mar Benjamin Chivell 26 Feb 1832
Thomas Penrose b 12 Nov 1798, c 10 Mar 1799, mar Elizabeth Rowe 10 Nov 1824
William Penrose c 19 Feb 1804, mar Maria Reed 31 Aug 1834
John Penrose c 9 Feb 1806, mar Mary Ann Paull 24 Jan 1831
Edward's children:
Edward c 13 Nov 1825 mar Louisa ...
Thomas c 15 Aug 1829
John c 26 Jun 1831 mar Jane Martin (1851) and / or Philippa Polglase ????
Elizabeth c 29 Jul 1832 never married
Peggy c 18 Jun 1837
Mary??? 1845? (remotely possibly part of the family)
Dilemma - did John marry Jane Martin from St Agnes? Did John die, or did he desert Jane and eventually marry Philippa Polglase from Breage/Germoe? My grandfather's parents were John Penrose from St Agnes and Philippa Polglase from Breage/Germoe, born 21 Jul 1840. Cannot find a marriage record. First child was born in Swansea, Wales in 1877.
I have been tracing the John Penrose listed above for about 10 years after doing a genealogy course where the lecturer helped me find him. I believed her when she said this was the right one - she was a well-known genealogist with her own genealogy library and newspaper column. Just a month ago I discovered this John appears to have married a Jane Martin in 1851. They are unmarried, each living with their parents, in 1851. They are married in 1851. They are together with a family in 1861 at Blowing House, Mithian, Perranzabuloe, Truro-Cornwall. In 1871 Jane is in Barkle Shop, Mithian, St Agnes, Cornwall (where her parents lived), listed as head of house, widowed, and with her children. One of her daughters is living with a Paull family, and John's Uncle John married a Mary Paull, so there is a further connection here.
Common sense says this has been the wrong John Penrose all along, and I have wasted many years of intermittent research. BUT, there is a 'scandal story' in the family that Philippa Polglase, who is still single at 31 and living with her sister Elizabeth Roberts in 1871 in Lancashire where they moved to work, was a school teacher who ran off with a travelling minstrel. So ... is it the wrong John, or did he desert Jane, meet up with Philippa, marry her and have 4 children. In 1881 John & Philippa Penrose are in Swansea with two children Charles 3 and Frederick 1. Later they moved to Cardiff and had 2 more sons Joseph and Richard. Frederick was my grandfather, and I am still in touch with descendents of Richard and Joseph. But ... we are STUCK.
If it is the wrong John, I have quite a bit of information for anyone tracing that Penrose line, including the 1825 Edward's family. Elizabeth never married and lived with her mother Jenifer in the St Agnes/Perranzabuloe area.
If anyone can shed any light on the above dilemma, or is tracing the same Penrose line, or has a Penrose line with a Philippa Polglase marrying into it, I would be most grateful for you to contact me.
Thanks for any help.
Brissygal
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I have an Elizabeth Penrose born in Penrose Methly in Cornwall in 1429. She married a 12th great grand-uncle of mine, Laurence Tremayne, born about 1425. Any help?
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What would you like to know?
All the best
Chris Penrose
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Dear Brissygal
There is a marriage record on FreeBMD for John PENROSE and Jane MARTIN marrying in the Sep quarter of 1851 Volume 9 Page 341. This is the information you quote to our General Register Office to obtain a marriage certificate. I cannot see a marriage between a John Penrose and anyone called POLGLAZE/POLGLASE.
The only Philippa POLGLAZE I can find married Richard Thomas GILBERT in 1878.
The surname of the Philippa that John PENROSE of Swansea married was PASCOE, and they married in St Austell Sep Quarter Volume 5c Page 182 (Source FreeBMD).
Of course, there is information being added to the net all the time, and we all also get a bit better as time moves on - well, before we become senile, that is!
This is for starters.
I want to know what happened to the other Philippa and whether she stayed with Richard GILBERT. etc etc
All the best
Chris
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There is a marriage record on FreeBMD for John PENROSE and Jane MARTIN marrying in the Sep quarter of 1851 Volume 9 Page 341. This is the information you quote to our General Register Office to obtain a marriage certificate. I cannot see a marriage between a John Penrose and anyone called POLGLAZE/POLGLASE. Already have that info. His wife lists herself as a widow in 1871 - did he really die, or did he run away with Philippa? :o :o
The only Philippa POLGLAZE I can find married Richard Thomas GILBERT in 1878.
The surname of the Philippa that John PENROSE of Swansea married was PASCOE, and they married in St Austell Sep Quarter Volume 5c Page 182 (Source FreeBMD). What year is this marriage. ??? My grandfather Frederick George Penrose, John's 2nd son - his birth certificate states mother as Philippa Penrose, formerly Polglase. :)
Thanks for your help - we'll just have to keep looking. :P
Brissygal 8)
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Hello Chris,I dont know if you are interested,but I am a direct descendent of Richard Penrose born circa 1625 (according to my records,place unknown).Married Jone/Joan circa 1645 (again place unknown).Buried 9th August 1691 at Redruth.Jone/Joan died 11th April 1681.I believe that Richard & Jone had six (known) children....John Bp 2.5.1647.Married Constance Bawden 9.10.1666.Buried 8.5.1696.Constance was buried 4.1.1715....Richard Bp 23.12.1649.Married 1st wife Elizabeth Opie (daughter od Peter & Christian) 17.10.1671 at Redruth.Married 2nd wife Elizabeth Michell 22.9.1685 at Mylor.Richard was buried 21.6.1702....Thomas Bp 1651.Buried 23.5.1658...Elizabeth Bp 9.3.1654....Thomas Born 23.5.1658.Bp 29.5.1658...Elizabeth Born 2.1.1660.Bp 4.1.1650.
Richard & Jone/Joan are my 8th great grandparents.John & Constance bawden my 7th. John & Jane Richards my 6th. Richard & Rebecca Wrench my 5th.Richard & Catherine Christoe my 4th.John & Mary Williams my 3rd.William & Catherine Richards my 2nd.William left Cornwall during the decline of the mining industry and moved to Swansea.He was an assayer.He married Catherine Richards,daughter of Richard Richards. My g,g,grandfather William Penrose was born at Redruth and Bp there 1820.
I have alot more names/dates and Penrose family history if you require any of it.
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Hi there
Richard's father was William PENROSE of Merther, and was the only brother of William from whom I am descended.
As his father was born, lived, and died there, it is safe to say that Richard was born there too. I know from parish registers that my descendant was.
I have a copy of the information given to the Cornish Family History Society which confirms all of your data.
Some day I will retire and pursue the William line myself, as no-one seems to have done this so far, at least as far as the CFHS knows.
Happy New Year!
Regards
Chris
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Hello Chris,
I have just started looking at my Penrose ancestory and I think I may be a distant cousin to you.
In one of your earlier emails you mentioned that your family descends as follows:
"Ronald John, Frederick John, Frederick, Joseph, Joseph, Joseph, William, Jeptha, William, Joseph, William"
My father is Howard Penrose, my grandfather is Reginald and my great grandfather is William (married to Mary Hurd. I then like you go through the Josephs to William so I guess we share the same great great grandfather.
I would be very interested to learn more about my ancestory and so far have only really been able to get to Joseph Penrose married to Ann Pascoe through the internet (mainly the census) but have nothing concrete from then onwards. As I live on the Isle of Man (where my parents and brother also live) I can't get to Cornwall easily to do any research, but I would value and information you may be willing to share. I look forward to making your acquaintance.
Best wishes, Lee Penrose
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Hi Lee
I'll ask my father tonight about what he remembers of his Grandfather Penrose's family. I know where Frederick was buried because the Cornish relatives go there to Perranzabaloe to tend to the grave.
Later then.
Regards
Chris
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Thanks Chris,
I do appreciate your help and look forward to hearing from you. From my internet research I'm having difficulty tracing back from Jeptha (Jehptha as in his marriage to Susanne) to William and beyond. I can't locate a date of birth for Jeptha or further details of his children particularly his son William. Going backwards I also can't find details of Jeptha's father, William and then the Joseph and the other Willam that you have mentioned in your email. Is this something you could help with? How far have you been able to go back yourself?
Best wishes, Lee
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With some work at the Cornwall Record Office, Truro Library, the Cornwall Family History Society (of which I am a member) and various internet resources, I got back to William Penrose of Merther. He was the son of Bennett Penrose who is mentioned on the Herald's Visitations of Cornwall (as updated by Lt Col Julian).
The trees shown take you right back to Philip de Penros - mentioned at the beginning of this topic.
Jeptha is shown on the LDS website as a Female - Jeptha, or Jephtha, was a Judge of Israel who promises God he will sacrifice of the first person coming out of his house. This was one thing I checked out at the CRO.
His mother was Elizabeth (misspelt!), father William c. 9th May 1676 at St Clements.
I spoke with my Dad, who had a conversation recently with a cousin who remarked on how little they knew about their Great-Uncles and Aunts.
This is a link to an area conservation document which includes my Great-Great Grandfather Joseph's house: http://www.historic-cornwall.org.uk/csus/towns/truro/CSUS_Truro_CA4.pdf
The website is www.familysearch.org, and there are also Church records accessible through the GENUKI PROJECT, e.g. for where Jeptha was born, Google GENUKI ST CLEMENT.
Have a look. There's lots of stuff on there.
Regards
Chris
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Hi Chris,
Thanks for the additional information. My initial research shows that Jeptha married Susanna Kensey on 29th August 1726 in the parish of Feock (OPC ID 323015). The IGR shows that Jepha was christened in 1703; however for his father William is appears from other research that he died in 1701 and was buried in Lanivett. I suppose it's possible that Jeptha was christened a few years after his dad died but it seems a big gap. Any views on this? Do you have a birth date for Jeptha?
My family moved to the Isle of Man from Staffordshire in the early 1960's. My father (son of Reginald Penrose who was your great uncle William's son - William moved up from Cornwall to Staffordshire with the railways at the beginning of the 20th Century), had three boys Peter, Howard (my father), Brian and a daughter Enid. I have a brother Malcolm who has two daughters and a son and I have two daughters.
I guess you may be connected with the Falmouth chandlers and sailmakers? It seems the sea is very much in the blood. My father sails and I have sailed and messed around in boats since I was 8 years old.
Best wishes, Lee
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http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyCornwall.htm#S
Go to this link, and you get the IGI Batch numbers from the LDS Website.
Find Saint Clement, and click the link for C053101.
Insert PENROSE in the SEARCH box and up they all come.
I had to get them into some sort of order by grouping families together, using parents names to help.
After that, on one of my trips from Leeds a few years ago, I was able to identify the missing links back to the start. A learning process, and comprehensive death information is still hard to come by online. You have to go to Truro, or the Cornwall Studies Centre to get the information.
I hesitate to suggest that the William who died in Lanivet is wrong, but there is little evidence that I have found that the St Clement PENROSES had reason to leave the area.
Personally, I am happy enough with my line that I may wait until I no longer work to pursue it further.
In the meantime I will sit here in Leeds on my comfy sofa helping as many as I can with research ideas.
Regards
Chris
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Hello I am a direct descendant of James Penrose from Redruth Cornwall who married Emily James in 1864 came to Maldon Victoria Australia to mine gold in 1865. I have been able to trace him back to his parents Richard born 1820 I believe and Frances of St Agnes Cornwall but that is as far as i have been able to go so far. In 1851 there was a Paul and Elizabeth Penrose residing in St Agnes aged 58 and 60 respectively and i suspect they may be the parents but have not been able to confirm.. do you have any suggestions for me Chris?
Thankyou by the way for all your efforts here! I hope all the Penrose's are appreciative
James M
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Hi James
The good news is that I am aware of your line, which descends from Richard Penrose of Merther/St Clement, then back to the first mention in documents in 1195 of Philip de Penros.
Have a read of brissygal on 17th June 2007!
Even better news is that a distant cousin of yours has compiled an accurate family tree of Richard Penrose that includes your Australian ancestors.
The ancestry of the first Richard Penrose is obtainable for a relatively small charge from the Cornwall Family History Society (by email). All their contact details are on www.cornwallfhs.com
I will let you know if I ever fix a year to come over to Oz; I have relatives on my mother's side in Perth and a good friend in the Wanneroo area.
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Thanks Chris excellent news I will definately follow up..
and yes by all means make sure you look me up if you come over...
If you want a laugh you can check me out under MARTY PENROSE on youtube...PS hope you like The bIG O
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Hi there, I am a direct descendant of William Penrose (b 1761) who married Elizabeth Hill. I am fairly new to researching the family tree, so am interested in any information (and tips!) anyone can give me. I'm from the Australian line of Penrose's, and it looks like my great great grandfather, Henry Penrose worked in the gold mines in Maldon, Victoria.
From the research I've done so far, the Penrose and Berryman names seem to come up quite frequently in my tree!
Cheers
Lauren
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This is a research request I have received today; I have omitted the contact details until the researcher supplies them directly, and will be adding any further information as I can.
Chris
Hello,
As a new member of the Cornwall Family History Society, I discovered your name, email and family name interests in the Members Directory. I am taking the liberty to send you an email about my interest in the Penrose family of Redruth.
Specifically I am interested in locating Jane Penrose who married Joseph Searle at St. Sampson Church in Golant on December 27, 1836. We know that she was born September 2, 1810 or 1812 in Cornwall (Redruth parish), lived at Wringford Farm - Golant (according to the 1840 census) and died September 18, 1903 in Iowa. She was my great great grandmother and emigrated to America in 1850. Do you have any information about this woman and her family?
Any information you might have about this family would be so appreciated. Thanking you in advance.
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The IGI and OPC records indicate a baptism of Jane in Golant, St. Sampson Parish on 8th November 1812; parents John and Margaret PENROSE. The 1841 online census record indicates that Jane was 25, though this may be a typo.
The church record input by the Online Parish Clerk (OPC) says that her marriage on 27th December 1836 was by Banns, and witnessed by Thomas PENROSE, Caroline SEARLE, and Andrew SEARLE.
I am getting a Lanreath connection for the above SEARLE's, and will check out Thomas and Jane PENROSE next.
Until later
Chris Penrose
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Dear Kay, This link takes you to the IGI Batch Numbers for Cornwall:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyCornwall.htm#S
Go to St Sampson/Golant, and click on Batch P2331. You then get up a "Search Criteria" screen, where for this search you should put PENROSE in the box provided in the top right corner. Then "Submit" your query.
A number of entries for PENROSE will appear, and I what I normally do is to click on all within a reasonable date to check out the parents, and thus likely siblings of, in this case, Jane PENROSE. You will find two families of what I suspect were brothers.
Looking at the PENROSE name on the next IGI baptism batch (C22541), there are two further children of William and Mary.
......................
Marriage Batch M002232 is quite informative in that it does not show John or William PENROSE, which suggests to me that they married elsewhere and then moved into the area to start their families. The Searles were from Lanreath.
Between the OPC lookup facility http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/ , the LDS website, and the filtered IGI batch facility from ancestry.com freepages, you should be able to track back to the PENROSE family of Broadoak or Braddock, which I have researched before, see topic:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,401001.0.html
Have some fun with these resources, and also maybe also send a PM to the original poster of the enquiry.
All the best
Chris
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I am a descendant of
Paul Penrose b.18/11/1792 Redruth d.22/3/1862 Trevellan and Elizabeth Penrose nee.Tredinnick b.23/3/1794 St Agnes d.26/6/1872.
Their eldest daughter Elizabeth Penrose b.2/2/1817 St Agnes d. jan/1890 Devonport, Auckland, New Zealand was my great great grandmother.
Elizabeth married a George Commons on 26/10/1834 in St Agnes, they had 3 daughters but only 2 survived. George died at some point, I don't know how or when.
Elizabeth then eloped with my great great grandfather William Davies a miner on 27/6/1842 at Truro, they had 9 children, 2 of whom were born in the UK, 1 in Sth Aust and the other 6 in NZ.
Elizabeth and William Davies are both buried on Mt Victoria which is on Auckland's North Shore.
I have heard that Elizabeth was disinherited by her parents when she eloped, is this correct?
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Dear Carol
The Cornwall Family History Society has been scanning Cornish Wills for some years now. You can place a request to them for a copy of the wills for both sets of parents.
Good luck.
Chris
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Hey, Thanks for that Chris, how do I get in touch with them? I live in New Zealand.
I would also be grateful if you could help me find out anything about William Davies' family he was born 28/6/1818 Trevallas, Cornwall.
Carol
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Dear Carol
Go here for the CFHS:
http://www.cornwallfhs.com/index.php?page=advice
I'll check out William Davies after work, though you may be able to make a start using the using resources quoted in the previous help request.
Later, then
Chris
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Hi Carol
I am a fan of showing people HOW to find information.
Accordingly, go to this website, and search for William Davies, while ticking the box marked "Include similar surnames":
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/
All the best
Chris
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Hi Chris
Thank you very much for your help, I appreciate it. :D
Carol
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I am searching for any information on my ancestor, born before her baptism as Ann Giddy on 1 January 1836 in Warleggan, Cornwall, the daughter of John and Ann Giddy or Gedye, later Giddey. Ann had a son, John Charles Giddy, born 1859 in St. Neot, father unnamed. Ann later married, as far as I am aware, Paul Penrose, in 1870. John's death certificate (NSW, Australia) shows his mother's name as Ann Weary and his father's as John Charles Giddey. I have been unable to verify the last two names and can find no other John Charles Giddey. Ann had a brother, John Coppin Giddy or Gedye. I am a total novice at genealogy and have no Ancestry or other subscriptions at present. John Charles Giddey was my mother's grandfather. Paul Penrose was gaoled for something, I think, according to records of Cornwall. I don't know whether Ann Giddey (John's mother) went to Australia following her son who served with the Royal Marines. John appears with Ann in the 1861 and 1871 England Censuses and in London in the 1881 England Census, on the ship the Forrester. John served in World War I and later became Harbour Master in Victoria. Later he had a shop in Sydney, Australia. He married Mary Ann (Marianna) Babarovic(h) and they had four children.
Ann simply disappears from all records after her marriage to Paul Penrose. They had no children. He later remarried and had children. I cannot tell whether Ann died or they divorced or just disappeared. Any help will be much appreciated. Thank you.
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Good luck with this GG with Margaret and others elsewhere. The best people to help you are nearly always those with a special SURNAME interest or some extra time.
I seem to be popular on the work front at the moment which takes up all my brain energy, lol, which is why I stick to the Penrose line.
I will leave your info on my Origins of Penroses thread.
Kind Regards
Chris
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I am tryi g to trace my husbands family of Penroses who came from Gwennap, His grandfather was William John,he and several brothers went to SAfrica for several years. william returned to Cornwall. Have you any of your tree living in Gwennap? llandinam.
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Hi there
I have checked my family history email account and have found your request.
Gwennap is not a parish involving my line back to at least 1600, however I am quite happy to research this.
There is information from a few websites that indicate William Henry PENROSE of Gwennap as his father, and I am now double checking my findings by tracing back further.
I can also provide you with the websites and details by email of what I have found to date.
All the best
Chris
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I have now tracked back through the census records of Gwennap to the nearest to when William Henry's parents were born.
These details are all on a Word 2010 document.
William Henry's parents were John PENROSE and Eliza - who died in 1855.
All the best
Chris
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Hi Chris, Thank you for your reply.Would be happy to receive an e-mail with sites etc but not sure how to go about this without sending my e-mail on the open web. llandinam
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I have sent a personal message.
Regards
Chris
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The formatting comes out, but if you look at the data on the screen, by putting in the internet addresses all should become clear.
Parish Register Record
Day Month 03-Aug Year 1873 Parish Or Reg District Gwennap
Forename William John Surname PENROSE Sex son
Father Forename William Henry Mother Forename Mary Louisa
Residence Carharrack Father Rank/Profession Miner
Notes J.M. Michell Mary Michell M.J.Phillips (witnesses)
Transcriber Coral Jennings
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1948702
~~~~~~~~---------------------------------------
1881 Census William J. PENROSE Male
Birth Year <1873> Birthplace Gwennap, Cornwall, England
Age 8 (Ages in Census normally rounded up to next birthday)
Occupation Scholar Marital Status U
Head of Household William Hy. PENROSE Relation Son
Source Information:
Dwelling Road Leading To St Day Census Place Gwennap, Cornwall, England
Family History Library Film 1341560
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2329 / 18 Page Number 9
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=/eng/search/ancestorsearchresults.asp
Full Census Record
Household Record 1881 British Census
Search results | Download
Previous Household
Next Household
________________________________________
Household: (spelling mistakes – see 1891 record below)
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
William Hy. PENROSE
Head M Male 35 Gwennap, Cornwall, England Butcher
Lousia PENROSE
Wife M Female 30 Gwennap, Cornwall, England Butcher Wife
William J. PENROSE
Son Male 8 Gwennap, Cornwall, England Scholar
Thomas M. PENROSE
Son Male 6 Gwennap, Cornwall, England Scholar
Annie PENROSE
Daur Female 4 Gwennap, Cornwall, England
Frederick PENROSE
Son Male 3 Gwennap, Cornwall, England
Aurthur PENROSE
Son Male 8 m Gwennap, Cornwall, England
________________________________________
Source Information:
Dwelling Road Leading To St Day
Census Place Gwennap, Cornwall, England
Family History Library Film 1341560
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2329 / 18
Page Number 9
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=/eng/search/ancestorsearchresults.asp
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kayhin/82329.html
1891 Census
Folio 9 Page 12
92,Albion Row,1,William H Penrose,Head,M,45,,Butcher & Farmer,Employer,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Louisa Penrose,Wife,M,,39,,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,William J Penrose,Son,S,17,,Farmers Son,Employed,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Thomas M Penrose,Son,S,16,,Farmers Son,Employed,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Fred Penrose,Son,,13,,Scholar,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Arthur Penrose,Son,,10,,Scholar,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Lily Penrose,Dau,,,8,Scholar,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Nellie Penrose,Dau,,,7,Scholar,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Ida M Penrose,Dau,,,3,,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Ivan H Penrose,Son,,1,,,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kayhin/1845.html
Marriage of William Henry Penrose to Louisa
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1873 (>99%)
Michell Mary Louisa Redruth 5c 376 Scan available - click to view
PENROSE William Henry Redruth 5c 376 Scan available - click to view
References to James Penrose of St Just have been deleted as wrong.
All the best
Chris Penrose
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Due to the maximum of 5500 characters per posting. this is the rest of my initial research:
1871 Census
66,Front Street,1,Mary A Penrose,Head,U,,26,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,William H Penrose,Brothr,U,24,,Butcher,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Caroline Penrose,Sister,U,,20,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Edwin Penrose,Brothr,U,18,,Goldsmith,Gwennap Cornwall,,
RG10/2313 Folio 23 Page 10
49,Carharrack,1,Wm Michell,Head,M,67,,Farm Labourer,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Fanny Michell,Wife,M,,63,,Quebec Canada Overseas Brit. Subj,,
,,,Louisa Michell,Dau,U,,18,Work Mine,Gwennap Cornwall,,
RG10/2313 Folio 10 Page 11
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kayhin/72313.html
1861 Census
49,Vogue,1,William Michell,Head,M,55,,Road Labourer,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Frances Michell,Wife,M,,44,,Quebec North America Overseas Brit. Subj,,
,,,Henry Michell,Son,U,23,,Copper Miner,Quebec North America Overseas Brit. Subj,,
,,,Lousia Michell,Dau,,,9,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Sarah Michell,Dau,,,6,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
RG9/1577(2) Folio 108 Page 12
102,Carharrack,1,John Penrose,Head,W,50,,Tailor,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Mary A Penrose,Dau,U,,18,Housekeeper,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,William H Penrose,Son,,15,,Carter A C,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Joseph Penrose,Son,,12,,Carter A C,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Caroline Penrose,Dau,,,10,Scholar,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Edwin Penrose,Son,,8,,Scholar,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,,Annie Penrose,Niece,U,,21,Tailoress,Gwennap Cornwall,,
RG9/1577(2) Folio 122 Page 17
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kayhin/61577a.html
1851 Census
3,Vogue,William Michell,Head,M,44,,Gardener,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,Frances Michell,Wife,M,,34,,Quebec Brit Subj Overseas Brit. Subj,,
,,Henry Michell,Son,U,16,,Copper Miner,Quebec Brit Subj Overseas Brit. Subj,,
,,William Michell,Son,,11,,Copper Miner,Canada Brit Subj Overseas Brit. Subj,,
,,Jane Michell,Dau,,,9,Sunday Scholar,Canada Brit Subj Overseas Brit. Subj,,
,,Frances Michell,Dau,,,7,Sunday Scholar,Leeds Yorkshire,,
,,Elizabeth Michell,Dau,,,5,,\- Ireland,,
,,John Michell,Son,,3,,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,Louisa Michell,Dau,,,1m,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
HO107/1914(3) Folio 199 Pages 1-2
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kayhin/51914c.html
37,Carharrack,John Penrose,Head,M,46,,Tailor,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,Eliza Penrose,Wife,M,,40,,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,Amelia Penrose,Dau,U,,19,Grocer,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,Eliza Penrose,Dau,U,,17,At Home,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,John Penrose,Son,U,16,,Scholar,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,Rosena Penrose,Dau,U,,12,Scholar,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,Mary Ann Penrose,Dau,U,,7,Scholar,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,William Henry Penrose,Son,U,4,,At Home,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,Joseph Penrose,Son,U,3,,At Home,Gwennap Cornwall,,
,,Caroline Penrose,Dau,U,,1,At Home,Gwennap Cornwall,,
HO107/1914 (4) Folio 380 Page 12
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kayhin/51914c.html
Day Month 28-Feb
Year 1855
Parish Or Reg District Gwennap
Forename Eliza
Surname PENROSE
Age 44
Residence Carharrack
Notes
Transcriber Notes
Transcriber Karen Duvall
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1255932
~~~~~~~~------------------------------------------------------
All the best
Chris
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Hi Chris Thank you very much for all that information. It has filled in many gaps. I will send you an e-mail with information about the later Penrose family from Gwennap Once again thank you. llandinam
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I might be a very distant Penrose decendant living in New Zealand,i have 11x Grandparents John Hill and Alice Penrose marrying 15 sept 1595, Wendron Cornwall. My ancestors on Dads Grandmas side lived in Cornwall for a long time,until A decendant couple Hanibal Gilbert and Elizabeth Congdon his wife and family came to NZ 1860 to Otago,nz. I have sent my DNA test recently and waiing on results. Would love to know any cousins on these sides of family. My maiden name is Jacobs and Married name Beaver
Karen
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I don't know if this thread is still 'live' but, if it is, here's my tiny contribution.
I've not looked into my PENROSE connections for many years, but I am descended from Elizabeth PENROSE (bap 3 Aug 1713, Perranzabuloe). She married John GOLDSWORTHY (21 Dec 1734, Perranzabuloe).
Elizabeth's father was Christopher.
I'm afraid I've left the line there whilst concentrating on other lines. It looks as if I shall have to return to it.
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The only Penros I can find in France appears to be farm or house (not a village, and certainly not a town) in the middle of nowhere in Brittany, more exactly between St Brieuc and Vannes, but not close to either.
However, the family De Penros appears to have been a distinguished one, active over 11 centuries, if you believe that.
"Ancienne famille originaire de Bretagne. Riou, sénéchal de Léon, en 1275. Les chevaliers de cette famille prirent partie, dans la période de onze siècles pendant lesquels la Bretagne a été gouvernée par des princes souverains, aux guerres avec la France et l'Angleterre. Les forces militaires bretonnes consistaient principalement dans sa chevalerie, à laquelle se joignaient quelques hommes de pied levés dans les paroisses; mais après chaque campagne, tous rentraient dans leur foyer jusqu'à une nouvelle convocation ou prochain ban. Plusieurs chevaliers de cette famille étaient des 'bannerets', c'est-à-dire des chevaliers possédant une châtellenie, et assez puissants pour entretenir à leurs frais une compagnie composée d'autres hommes d'armes et de leur suite formant un effectif de vingt-cinq chevaux au moins. ..."
You can probably find information on French genealogy sites.
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Try PENROZ in Brittany
May be the same root as PENN AR ROZ Penn = head and Roz = hill
Pennaros, Penn ar Roz - GrandTerrier
grandterrier.net/wiki/index.php?title=Pennaros%2C_Penn_ar_Roz
Forme française, Pennaros. Forme bretonne, Penn ar Roz. Signification, "bout du coteau". Décomposition, Penn pour "tête, bout, extrémité" et Roz "parcelle de terre en pente, coteau". Relevés, 1540, 1946 ...
d'Histoire et d'archéologie. - Diocèse de Quimper
https://diocese-quimper.fr/images/stories/bibliotheque/bdha/bdha1922.pdf
noblesse et les hommes d'armes de l'Evêché,. v. Pol de Courcy atteste ... plus d'ancienne noblesse que Ia Bretagne et spécialement l'Evêché de .... Avant d'aborder l'époque révolutionnaire, nous don- nons la liste des sénéchaux, avec certaines dates. SÉNÉCHAUX DE LÉON. Riou de Penroz. 1267-1276. Allain Le Moyne.
Le Dévot pèlerinage de Notre-Dame du Folgoët, par ....avec la liste ...
https://books.google.fr/books?id=OQszcnHk2lEC
R.P. Cyrille Pennec - 1825
En 1267 et 1276, Riou ou Riocus de Penroz en était sénéchal. Ses armes sont au nombre des sceaux du temps, n.° 1 13, Preuves de D. Morice, t. 1.« planchent 1. Le lundi d'après Pâques 131o, accord passé dans cette juridiction entre Hervé de Léon, sire de Noyon , et les moines du Relec , par lequel Hervé se réserve le ...
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http://boutique.genealogie.com/blasons/armoiries-famille-Penroz-110837
http://www.coats-of-arms-heraldry.com/armoriaux/rietstap/blasons_PELL_PERA.html
PENROZ Azure, to the cross fleuretty Argent.
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Further to reply #80:-
Christopher PENROSE m Mary BICE, 20 Sep 1712, Perranzabuloe
01 Aug 1686, Christopher son of Christopher & Joane PENROSE, Newlyn East
There are two possibilities for Mary BICE, both baptisms being in St Enoder. I'm seeing if I can eliminate one of them
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I am also a decendant of Roger Penrose and his wife Margaret Thomas of St Just.
Their daughter Mary married Justinian Bonetto in 1696 is my line.
Also have done a DNA test and would be interested to see if there are any matches with people on this thread?
Sorry can't help much with Roger, I have not been able to trace past his marriage to Margaret, nor any burials for him in St Just.
As far as I know the couple had eight children.
Suzy W