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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Huntingdonshire => Topic started by: dave192 on Friday 26 February 10 23:37 GMT (UK)
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I have maneged to trace back to my gggg granddad, but I am starting to think I may have the wrong name. The info I have is below:
John Levis b 1784 Huntingdonshire and died 1825 in the same place. He married Rachel ? she was born about 1785 in Huntingdonshire and died about 1850. They married about 1806.
They had the following children:
Thomas Levis b 1808 in Sawtry d 1864
Charles Levis b 1816 Sawtry d 1887
Charles Levis b 1812 Sawtry d 1816
John Levis b 1814 Sawtry d 1815
Catherine Levis b 1818 Sawtry d 1828
John Levis 1821 Sawtry
Reuben Levis b 1824 Sawtry d 1864
The children I have confirmed and Reuben in my ggg granddad.
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Hi Dave,
Welcome to rootschat.
I'm not familiar with Huntingdonshire but we can at least start this.
Presumably you can trace your roots back to Reuben with good evidence that you are correct to that point. So why do you think you have the wrong father?
Christine
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on another site someone did a check and found no John Levis marring a Rachel and I can not find anyone by that name around that date.
As for the link to Reuben after 2 years searching and with some help I found my great granddad and then using Census records (i did a 14 day free trail, no money spare at the mo) I was able to confirm all the info i was given apart from two odd balls and this John. One thing i will say is traditionally within the Levis family the third son born is given the farthers name.
If I can confirm John and find is farther I should be able to trace back to a Samuel Levis who went to America with the Pilgrim farthers. This Samuel stated the Levis family in America, and I should be able to go a further two generations back from Samuel.
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Hi Dave,
I just did a very quick search to see what I could find on Reuben and certainly there has been a wide variety of spellings of both his names, even between the 1841, 51 and 61 census.
You say 'two odd balls and this John'. Leaving aside the oddballs, what is the original source that led you to believe that the parents were John and Rachel? Was it a family story or a document or record?
I'm not in any way implying they aren't Reuben's parents, but if we can start with what you have confirmed and go back from there? A very quick search for John didn't bring up anything obvious so far.
It is a big jump from the 1841 census to the Pilgrim Fathers, and you probably need to trace it back one step at a time.
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I'm with Maggie on this - one step at a time. Trying to make things fit is not the right way to go. If you want an accurate family history it can be very painstaking at times.
When you say someone on another site did a check - did they actually check parish records or simply use their subscription to search a genealogy website.
I've heard people say (not on here ;D ) that 'it's all online now' but trust me - it isn't. Loads more than when I first started but not complete by a long way.
Where did the list of children (Reuben's siblings) come from.
I know there's more questions than answers at this stage but to get the best out of us we need to know as much as you do and the sources of that information.
Christine
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OK lets start at the beginning. About 2 years ago I was given a list of names, some with dates of birth and deaths and some missing. It took two years but I finely found my dads mum and his dad farther. This was found by a nice lady on a well known site.
With this new data I went back from my great granddad and was able to link all the pieces of paper together right back to John. This was more difficult but on a well known site there were about 5 different people with the Levis tree and all had the info I had and some with extra which I noted and confirmed before I added to mine, but they all had the samething in common they all get to John and Rachel ? and stop.
On another site people have checked other sources and I have even checked Huntingdonshire Family History web page and they don't hold the Levis surname at the moment, I know we come from here because of the Census.
Onething I forgot to say is we be live John is from Sawtry and I have being told that they are not on line yet. I have check every source I can.
Hope that helps you all to under stand what I have so.
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Dave, it does help and thanks.
The trees that you found on other sites can be a huge source of information, and give you useful pointers as to where to look, but the decision you have is around whether you take what is on other people's published trees as definite.
You say you compared and confirmed, which is great, and by that I assume you went and checked the details by Parish Records, Births, Wills, Census etc?
On that basis can I ask what is the oldest fact you have on Reuben and/or his father John? I saw last night that Reuben was certainly in the 1841 census, do you have any sourced/confirmed birth details or anything earlier than that?
Everyone here will try to help - it's just establishing exactly where we start from.
Maggie1895
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Dave, I didn't want to sound discouraging or negative in my previous post, so I've just gone to see what I could find that was a definite place to start from.
First, Reuben's death.
I've found Reuben Levice's death recorded in Q3 (July-Aug-Sept) in 1864 in Huntingdon so that part is spot on. (Volume 3b, Page 145) Interesting that it's recorded as Levice not Levis, so we definitely need to be open on the spelling!
Second, the census:
1841 census: Reuben, again spelt Levice, is 15, (and the ages were often rounded up or down to the nearest 5 in 1841). In the same household is Ann Gregory age 55 and a second Ann Gregory age 25. The elder Ann is listed as a Butcher. They are living in Sawtry St Andrew, and all were born in Huntingdonshire.
1851 census: Reuben Levis is 25, and married to Mary. They are living in Sawtry with their children Alice, William and Rachel (which helps support your belief that his mother was Rachel). In the same household are John Shareman or Shoreman, with his wife and son. They are Lodgers.
I think the address is Horn Drove, and Reuben is an Agricultural Labourer.
1861: Still in Horn Drove. Reuben, Mary, William, Rachel, and younger children Mary Ann, Emma, Sarah and Reuben age 2. Alice is not listed and whilst that may mean she has died it could equally mean that she has moved out because by now she will be 15, and could possibly have gone into service or similar.
1871: Reuben has died, and Mary is Head of the household. The family has moved to Ramsay, and Mary is working as a Charwoman. Children still at home are William, Rachel, Sarah, Reuben, and two younger ones Aaron age 9 and John age 6. All the children are working as Agricultural Labourers, apart from John. (hopefully that's an error in regard to Aaron)
Finally, Birth, 1859: No doubt all the children's births are listed but I just searched Reuben's. First quarter of 1859, named Reuben John Levice. Vol 3B, P. 255.
Where to go from here? My suggestion would be that you start by ordering a copy of Reuben's death certificate from 1864 and hoping that there is a reference to his father on that, because that would get you off to a start for your search to confirm his parents. Good luck.
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What's your evidence that John Levis was born in Hunts? That other online trees show it is not evidence.
Forget about linking John Levis born c 1784 to the Pilgrim Fathers, 1620, at least until you're a lot farther back than where you are at the moment.
I've never seen a death cert of an adult with a reference to a father on it. Just the name of the informant. In 1841 instructions to enumerators were that ages over 15 should be rounded down, not up, to the nearest 5 below. So 15 in 1841 should cover an age range of 15 to 19.
I don't believe John Levis was from Hunts. He didn't marry Rachel in Hunts (unless his surname is so mangled it doesn't show on Hunts Marriage Index). He died in 1825 at Sawtry Hunts, so doesn't appear in a census.
I repeat, why do you think he was born in Hunts?
BB
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Oops. Bedfordshire Boy is absolutely right, of course.
I was a bit tired when I finally got that together and suggested you get a death certificate to show details of the father when I know perfectly well that it's the marriage certificates that do that, not the death certificates. (In England) I think we get so used to the quantity of information on Scottish death certificates post 1855 that we tend to forget they don't appear on the English ones.
Dave, I hope that the correction is in time to save you a wild goose chase on that one, and BB, thanks for pointing out my error!
Just hope the rest of the information gives you some confirmed start points.
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When you say someone on another site did a check - did they actually check parish records or simply use their subscription to search a genealogy website.
I'm absolutely certain that "they" checked the Hunts Marriage Index, a fiche set produced by Hunts FHS, which has transcribed all marriages in Hunts up to 1837, indexed by surname (which is not online). What "they" couldn't check was if the name was so far removed from Levis that it didn't show in their search which covered all marriages starting Lev or Lew
Rachel Levis married Robert Wright at Sawtry All Saints in 1827 (Hunts Marriage Index) following the death of John Levis in Sawtry in 1825 (NBI). Both were of Sawtry St Andrew. She appears to have been buried age 65 on 15 Apr 1850 at Sawtry St Andrew (NBI).
Robert Wright age 68 was living in Sawtry with the family of Thomas Levis in 1851, described as father in law (= step father) (1851 census image)
On the other site "someone" suggested that as Sawtry is only a couple of miles from the county boundary with Northants, which is even more difficult to research online than Hunts, you should try a look up request for the marriage on the Northants Marriage Index
BB
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We may be getting some where. Bedfordshire found the following;
Rachel Levis married Robert Wright at Sawtry All Saints in 1827 (Hunts Marriage Index) following the death of John Levis in Sawtry in 1825 (NBI). Both were of Sawtry St Andrew. She appears to have been buried age 65 on 15 Apr 1850 at Sawtry St Andrew.
I have just gone through my paper work and found the following notes note sure where they came from but i nearly jumped for joy. The note is as follows:
John Levis born 1784 and died 16th October 1825 Huntingdonshire.
Rachel born 1785 and died 1850 Huntingdonshire.
The reason I thought they were married in Sawtry is all the children are listed as beign born in Sawtry.
To comfirm what somthing Maggie siad about Reuben who married Mary, was my ggg granddad and his son Reuben was my gg granddad. Reuben's brother John is another problem but will hit you with that one once this is fixed.
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Wow, things have moved on since I went to bed last night!
Has anyone managed to find a marriage registration for Reuben - I've run out of alternative spellings and still not come across one?
Christine
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Reuben Married Mary Taylor about 1845 but not sure where. Mary was born about 1823 in Whittlesey, Cambridgeshire. Hope this helps
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According to Camdex at http://www2.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/db/ridmars.nsf/search?OpenForm Reuben LEVIES married Mary Taylor in 1846 in Huntingdon registration district
The marriage is on Freebmd as either Reubin LEVIES or Reuben LEVI_ in the Dec quarter 1846
David
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John Levis was buried at Sawtry St Andrew on 17 Oct 1825 age 41. That's where his birth of 1784 came from
But we're no nearer his baptism and parents' names until his marriage is found. And I'm no nearer finding that than I was when I posted this same information on the other site.
David
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The only census clue for John & Rachel Levis is 1841 when Rachel should be enumerated as Wright, living with Robert Wright. Robert was living in Sawtry in 1851, with one of Rachel's sons, but I can't find them in 1841
Can anyone else spot them?
David
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I have only just been looking at ths thread so have not absorbed it all but is this 1841 relevant?
Holme, Hunts
Robert Wright 58 Ag Lab born in county
John Levis 17 Ag Lab
Ann Bellaire 7
On the facing page living with the family Ovenstall or Overstall is a Rachel Wright aged 57
Selina
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They're in the right age range - wonder why they haven't been rounded down.
Do you have a reference for this one?
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HO107 piece 452 folio 9/10 pages 13 and 14.
A******* has Holme as being in Hertfordshire!! Therefore in the index they give Robert's birthplace as Hertfordshire. It is clearly Huntingdonshire on the description.
Selina
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Selina, I'm with you in that getting your head around this one is quite complicated.
If I'm keeping up (and I may not be) it looks as if you have identified a Rachel, who was previously possibly married to John Levis, as shown up on the 1841 census, and (possible son) John is living around there as well, age 17.
Only problem - and please correct me if I have lost the plot - is that according to Dave's original details the second son John born in 1820 would be 21, and even considering the usual rounding up, would he be recorded as 17?
As far as I can see what we have for definite so far is that Dave says he is descended from Reuben, but we have nothing yet to connect Reuben to John or Rachel as their son Have I got that right or have I missed a bit?
If the Levis all come from Huntingdonshire, and Dave you seem certain they do, there could be more than one branch.
It's a bit like the monkey jumping out of the hole, isn't it.. I wish it was in Scotland, at least Reuben's parents would be on his death certificate! ???
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Found it now, thanks. I am at a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to local geography as I live over 200 miles north!
It seems that this could be the missing Robert and Rachel - particularly with John Levis living with Robert. I wonder if it was just one of those quirks of census night that Rachel just happened to be away from home - though not very far.
Christine
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Would it be worth trying to get a look up at the local records office for Reuben and/or siblings baptisms just to confirm that parents were John and Rachel. Or has this already been done?
C
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Sorry to cause you all a headache. I am greatful for all the work you are doing, one thing to remeber that the Levis family seem to like kids, this died out with my greatgrand farther. I have restarted the trend with 7 kids. The other thing I have noticed is that the third son is normaly named after his farther. Agian thank you to you all. :)
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Dave,
family naming patterns are really useful. If it is normal in the Levis / Levice family for the third son to be named after his father, does that mean that the first is named after one grandfather (perhaps paternal?) and the second after the other grandfather?
It would be odd to have a naming pattern that only started with No 3 and if so that means the first and second sons would give a clue to the grandparents.
In the case of Reuben and his brothers that would give us Thomas followed by Charles, which might be a pointer to older records?
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Sorry ignore my last post about naming I got my wires crossed. Let me explain.
1. John - Rachel
There third son was called John died as infant. Their 6th child was named John and their 7th Reuben (ggg granddad)
2. Reuben - Mary Taylor
Their second son 6th child was named Reuben (gg granddad) and their 4th son 9th child was called John. Their 3 son 8th child was called Aaron.
3. Reuben - Hannah Ardron
Their first son 1st child was named Aaron (great granddad), second son 2nd child was called Reuben and their fourth son 4th child was John.
My great grand children were one boy and two girls. Then son my granddad was called William Arthur and he named one of his twin boys with the same name, my uncle.
Sorry for the mis info tied, was up at 4 with the youngest and not got back to bed yet.
Hope this helps
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Good spot Selina! So the 1841 says that Rachel was born in Hunts, although that part of the 1841 is often inaccurate. The youngest Overstall child was only 3 days old. Possibly Rachel was some kind of nurse.
Cutting through all the extraneous stuff on naming patterns, the tradition was that the first son was named after his paternal grandfather, the second his maternal grandfather, and the third his father.
Dave - have you checked the baptisms of the various children with Sawtry parish register, or just taken them from other peoples' trees? There are two parishes which make up Sawtry - St Andrew and All Saints. St Andrew has been transcribed by Hunts FHS and is available on CDrom or fiche. All Saints is only available at Hunts Records Office.
The basic problem with this family is that there are very few Levis in Hunts, which leads me to think that he was from elsewhere, and probably married elsewhere too, possibly nearby Northants.
The NBI, which admittedly is incomplete (eg All Saints burials only start at 1800), only shows 5 Levis burials - 1625 in Easton, then the next was John son of John age 1+ on 20 Sept 1815 at Sawtry St Andrew, John aged 41 in 1825, Cathearine aged 11 on 22 Sept 1828 at Sawtry All Saints, and John Levice age 32 on 29 March 1855 at Ramsey. Sawtry All Saints
There are no Levis baptisms in Hunts on either the IGI or BVRI before 1873, although coverage for Hunts is pretty low. But the Marriage Index is complete 1701 - 1837 and there are but two Levis marriages - Rachel to Robert Wright and Charles to Lydia Stapleton in 1837, both at Sawtry. So John and Rachel married elsewhere.
David
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John and Rachel may have had other children - Cambs Records Office online index at http://calm.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/ArchiveCatalogue/SearchArchives.htm
Huntingdonshire Quarter Sessions records May 1829
Ref HCP/1/13 part
Concerning the theft from Stephen Bowd, Sawtry All Saints, Labourer, of a table cloth and shirt statements from Bowd, Thomas Milborn, Constable, William Levis the accused (with George Colley) and Robert Wright with whom Levis lodged.
If, as seems likely, William was a son of John and Rachel, then Robert Wright was his step father.
What this might do to the naming pattern is anyone's guess! Depends when he was born and where he fitted into the pecking order. I can't find him in censuses to get his age.
David
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Long shot!
You mention that there are sons named Aaron
I mentioned that they could have come from Northants
There's a tree on Ancestry where an Aron Levis had a daughter Elizabeth in Stanion, Northants (15 miles from Sawtry) in 1790
I would definitely post a request on the Northants Look up Request board for look up in Northants Marriage Index for a marriage of John Levis and Rachel c 1810 +/-10
David
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I've cracked it, although how I missed it when I posted earlier I don't know.
Living in Sawtry in 1851 was Thomas Levis 43 born Stanion, Northants. Also in the same houshold was John Levis brother widower 29 b Sawtry, and Robert Wright father in law ie step father.
The key fact that I missed (how could I have done?) was Thomas' birthplace of Stanion Northants (which he also gives in 1861)
We've been saying all along Dave, have you got the Levis childrens' details from the parish register, or from someone elses tree. It's now clear that Thomas wasn't born in Sawtry, as you stated in your original post, but in Stanion, Northants, and that's where I think you'll find the marriage of John Levis and Rachel. Shows how unreliable other peoples trees can be, and how you should always verify details with parish registers.
One thoroughly ashamed of himself David in the south of France
Reuben's brother John is another problem but will hit you with that one once this is fixed.
OK, hit us, but start a new thread
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Hi All.
David I haven't got time to read it all, but am answering your call. ;D
From the Northants Baptisms Indexes.
Stanion C of E
03 Jul 1808
Thomas LEVIS s John & Rachel
Sandy
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I can not find a marriage for parents John & Rachel
on the N.M.I. I am afraid.
Sandy
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Pity the marriage is not listed! Were there any other children baptised Northants to John and Rachel?
The marriage is not on the Cambs Marriage Index either.
Selina
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Thanks for helping out Sandy
Not a clue where they married. I can only wonder if it's a case of LEVIS being incorrectly entered in a parish register, or mistranscribed in a marriage index.
I would go through the Sawston parish registers to (i) confirm the baptisms of the rest of the children, and (ii) to see if there's a marriage of John and Rachel.
David
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You are welcome David. :)
I am afraid that is the only baptism to the couple.
There is another family A(a)ron , Aram, and Elizabeth baptising there.
William, 07 Dec 1795, Sarah, 30 Aug 1799, spelt as LEVES,
Ann, 05 Jun 1802, spelt LEVIS, Charles, 06 Jul 1806.
Sandy
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Sorry Selina I missed your posting.
David I suppose a possibility could be LEWIS.
Sandy
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Could the reason for not finding a recorded of their marriage be due to the fact they may have being Quaker's. The origins of the Levis family start in 1558, a Huguenot named Levis settled in Leicestershire. from this line a Samual Levis followed William Penn and also the Irish Levis came from the same line as well as growing in England.
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Hi dave192.
It is a thought, although there is a marriage for a son of Aaron in
Northants C of E.
Also the I.G.I. has a marriage to Elizabeth Peak for Aaron Levis
in Great Bowden C of E.
We still can not find one for John and Rachel though.
Sandy
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Referring back to message 27 from David (bedfordshire boy) - It seems that William Levis was in trouble more than once in 1829. Both times for Larceny.
In the England Criminal Registers, at the Huntingdon Sessions July 1829 he was sentensed to 6 days imprisonment and at the Huntingdon Sessions October 1829 he got 2 months imprisonment and whipped!
Selina
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Is there any evidence that this family in Northants/Hunts were anything but the established church? John and Rachel baptised possibly their first child in the established church, but we don't know about the Sawtry children. If they were married in a Quaker ceremony then I very much doubt if they would have baptised children in the CofE. The Quakers were a very insular set of people.
Equally I don't buy Huguenots turning into Quakers, although I'd be happy to be proved wrong.
But you've got a long way to go Dave before you need worry about whether or not they were Huguenots.
Yes Sandy, I'd checked Lewis as well in Hunts but drew a blank. I still think the name might have been corrupted in the parish register, but 30 fiche with 70 pages per fiche is too much to contemplate ploughing through with a magnifying glass!
David
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OK, panic over
1806 Sawtry All Saints John LAVESS and Rachel SOUTHWELL
I'd been through all the LE....s but thought I'd better make the effort and check all the L....s and S......s. Fortunately LAV comes fairly near the start! Shame you can't use wildcards on fiche!
David
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Fantastic, David.
You deserve the biggest accolade for that one ;D
Christine
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Well done David!
Its nice to see another mystery solved.
Selina
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Thanks everyone for your help And thank you David I never thought of looking under Lavess, tried everyother combo appart from this. Again thanks.
One mystry soled two to go.
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Brilliant work David. :)
I did look through my Stanion Church and Non-conformists graves
for the Surname, none our side of the County though.
Sandy
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David, it's when I see detective work like that I realise I still have so much to learn!
Maggie1895
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A team effort, but flattery will get you everywhere!
David
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This site is great and so are you guys. Thank you for all your hard work.
I have already put up a post with the other odd ball and I am hoping for the same sussess as I have had with this one.
Again thank you to your all
Dave
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Hi Dave
I've just found all the postings re John Levis. Reuben Levis born 1824 was my GGG Grandfather. I have his marriage certificate - he married Mary Taylor on 09 Nov 1846 at Sawtry All Saints. His father is recorded as John Levies, Labourer. Both Reuben and Mary "made their mark". Mary's father was John Taylor, but I haven't got any further back with that branch.
You may be interested in the Ramsey St Mary Index (Hunts Record Office) which lists the children of Reuben and Mary Levis. I can give you that information if you don't already have it. I am descended from their daughter Rachel who married Thomas Cullup.
I also have Reuben's death certificate:
Died 07 Aug 1864, Horn Drove, Ramsey.
Male, aged 40, Farm Labourer.
Carcinoma (Stomach) 12 months certified
Informant is Sarah Lay, present at the death [not identified her yet, perhaps a local nurse?]
Hope this is helpful. We must be related!
Good luck, and keep posting!
Ruth.
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Ruth, I'm sure Dave192 will see your post and be in touch with you, but as I tried (but didn't succeed) in helping on this one, can I say welcome to Rootschat - it's brilliant that you have all that information.
Maggie1895
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And a warm welcome from me too, Ruth.
Like Maggie, I didn't get too far with this one but there's always someone on here who can help. Hope you enjoy it.
Christine
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Hi Ruth
Amazing i never thought I would find a distant relation. Rachel's brother Reuben is my GG granddad. Following the family back from myself to John is seven generations. I have my family tree on another site if you wish to look. any info about Rachel's family would be great.
Dave :) :)
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Am trying to find out how to respond to your PM to send you my email address... it doesn't want to let me reply! Any clues would be helpful... or perhaps you could send me your email address as I seem to have received your PM and then I can email you mine. I think we must be fourth cousins as we share Reuben Levis (1824) as a GGG Grandfather.
Ruth.
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Hi twywell. I believe you have to post two or three times before you can send a PM. You can try again now or make one more post and then try again. It should then go through to dave. Good luck !!
dollylee
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dave have you got copys of the census 1841 too 1901 regarding your search the levis family
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I did have until one of my children used it for drawing.
Dave
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john send me your address and i will send you what i have dave
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hi Dave, did you ever get any further with your research on your line of Levises?
I've started a project to build family trees for all Leavis/Levis/Leaviss/Levice/etc. in the UK, starting with the public GRO records.
My own line can be traced back to William Leavis born about 1774 who married Ann Whinn in 1792 in Upwell, Norfolk. His father was 'William', a farmer. There's a William Levis, farmer, appearing in parish records in nearby Gedney Hill, Spalding at the end of the 18th century.
While researching your line, I found that Simon Levis b. 1850 and Ann Wright (again a 'Wright') had two daughters born in villages around Spalding, while their permanent residence seemed to be in Sawtry, Huntingdonshire. This Simon Levis is the son of Charles Levis b. 1817 in Sawtry, Huntingdonshire and Lydia Stapleton. I suppose there's a good chance Charles Levis is a brother of your ancestor Ruben Levis/Levice. (a family link between Ann Wright and Robert Wright would probably be a good indication, as well as the absence of any other Levis family in Sawtry other than John and Rachel's).
edit: I see that there are trees on Ancestry that state that Charles has been born (probably date of baptism) on 22 July 1816 in Sawtry, Huntingdonshire. Unfortunately my usual sources (Ancestry, FindMyPast, FamilySearch, FreeReg) don't show any Levis baptisms for Sawtry.
I wonder if the Spalding is a coincidence or if there might be a connection between our Leavis/Levis/Leves/Levice ancestors!
Like you, I heard stories of Huguenot ancestors; however, I suppose it was fashionable to claim Huguenot ancestors for a time which is what I believe is the likely origin of this claim.
However, I did do an Y-DNA test with FamilyTreeDNA and do have direct/indirect matches with descendants of the Pennsylvania Quaker Levis branch, so my branch definitely seems to come from the same Leicestershire branch. Hopefully more more male-line Levis descendants can do this test to help with figuring out how we all are related.
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There where 3 sawtry parishes, all saints, st andrews, and st judiths.Checked
all saints, LEVIES, bapts lewis elizabeth, daughter of joseph/sarah.
Margaret.
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Dear All
Interested to see this old thread being resurrected!
Rachel LEVIS (b. 1851) is my GG Grandmother.
Still at a brick wall for the birth/baptism of John LEVIS (choose your own spelling...!) b. c. 1784. The Stanion link is interesting, but also Leicestershire is close enough to be a strong possibility too.
John LAVESS married Rachel SOUTHWELL at Sawtry All Saints, I have traced the SOUTHWELL family back into the 1700s still in Sawtry.
Very interested in any LEVIS etc information.
Thanks to everyone for your past contributions on this thread, it definitely helped me to make progress!
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Hi,
Here's what I've got on the family of John Levis and Rachel Southwell so far (on top of what has already been mentioned in this thread up to this point):
- There's a Charles Levis born Abt. 1817 Sawtry Huntingdonshire, who married Lydia Stapleton in 1837 and had a family with many descendants. I cannot find the link between Charles Levis and the suspected parents John & Rachel (baptism?), so I ordered (and am waiting for arrival of) the marriage cert from the GRO to find their names. Notably his son Simon Levis b. 1850 Sawtry Huntingdonshire marries an 'Ann Wright' born 1847 Woodwalton Huntingdonshire, and has many children two of which have been registered with GRO and baptized around Spalding, Lincolnshire: Mary Elizabeth Levis b. 1875 in Gosberton, Lincolnshire and Minnie Levis b. 1877 in Holbeach, Lincolnshire. Both baptized 1877 in Holbeach. I suspect my own Levis ancestors have links with Gedney Hill, near Holbeach (insufficient records to prove anything so far). This raises the questions: What's the link of Simon Levis and Ann Wright with the villages around Spalding? Is Ann Wright related to Robert Wright (who married Rachel Southwell after the death of John Levis)?
- son John Levis b. Abt. 1822 Sawtry Huntingdonshire is single on the 1841 census and widower on the 1851 census. GRO records show potential related entries for a Phoebe Levis b. 1846 mother maiden name FINEDON, d. 1849, Phoebe Levis b. Abt. 1808 d. 1848 and Eliza Lewis b. Abt 1818 d. 1847 ; Assuming Phoebe who died in 1848 is the mother, it this means she was 14 year older than John. Not likely, but still possible. I have been unable to find a marriage record (parish or GRO) for a 'FINEDON' or 'FINDON' marrying a 'Levis'. Next step would be ordering the GRO birth/death records of these people to find out more.
- No trace of assumed son William Levis, other than the criminal records of his punishments (previously mentioned in this thread) and the link with Robert Wright
- son Thomas Levis, born Abt. 1808 reports to come from Stanion, Northamptonshire. Does this mean that one of his parents had family living there? In case John Levis b. Abt. 1784 is from Stanion, then he could be the child of Aaron John Levis and Elizabeth Weekly/Weekley who got married in Wadenhoe in 1781 (about 8 miles from Stanion). Finding a baptism record for John 1784 would be essential to go with this assumption.
- to add to this complexity, there's also a John Levis b. Abt. 1783 who claims to come from Northamptonshire on the 1851 census, living with his family on 10 Wolverly street, Bethnal Green (London). His descendants have a history of going in and out of workhouses in London, and there are many stories to read (have not read through all of them yet). Perhaps there's something more concrete in these stories about where they hail from, or maybe there's a marriage record with more details.
I'll look into the GRO records, unfortunately I'm not much good on baptism records if they're not on Ancestry/FamilySearch/FreeReg
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Hi,
Here's what I've got on the family of John Levis and Rachel Southwell so far (on top of what has already been mentioned in this thread up to this point):
- There's a Charles Levis born Abt. 1817 Sawtry Huntingdonshire, who married Lydia Stapleton in 1837 and had a family with many descendants. I cannot find the link between Charles Levis and the suspected parents John & Rachel (baptism?), so I ordered (and am waiting for arrival of) the marriage cert from the GRO to find their names.
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finally got the GRO marriage cert of Charles Levies and Lydia Stapleton married in All Saints, Sawtry, Huntingdonshire 6 November 1837.
It mentions that Charles, age 21, is the son of John Levies, labourer. Lydia, age 21, the daughter of Thomas Stapleton, labourer. Witnessed by William Owen and Sarah Stapleton. Bride, groom and both witnesses all sign with a cross before their name.
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LEVIES, check LEWIS
burials at all saints sawtry.
11.3.1887.charles levies, of st andews, aged 70.
also15.2.1816, charles levis of st andrews, 3years/6months.
margaret.
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LEVIES, check LEWIS
burials at all saints sawtry.
11.3.1887.charles levies, of st andews, aged 70.
also15.2.1816, charles levis of st andrews, 3years/6months.
margaret.
Thanks! interesting to know there was an older child Charles.
Next is the hunt for connecting John Levis b. abt. 1784 to Aaron Levis and Elizabeth.
Aaron and Elizabeth lived around Stanion, Northamptonshire and had many children there in the right timeframe, and John's oldest child Thomas was baptized in Stanion in 1808; this leads me to believe John is very likely a child Aaron and Elizabeth.
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...
Next is the hunt for connecting John Levis b. abt. 1784 to Aaron Levis and Elizabeth.
Aaron and Elizabeth lived around Stanion, Northamptonshire and had many children there in the right timeframe, and John's oldest child Thomas was baptized in Stanion in 1808; this leads me to believe John is very likely a child Aaron and Elizabeth.
Another hint that could point to a family connection between John Levis & Rachel Southwell and Aaron John Levis & Elizabeth Weekley who lived in Wadenhoe and Stanion:
Elizabeth Weekley's sister Rebecca Wheekley married a Matthew Southwell on 2 August 1790 in Woodnewton, Northamptonshire (all credits for finding this go to my Levis research collaborator Jo).
Are Rachel Southwell and Matthew Southwell related? (Eg niece/uncle). Possibly, I haven't been able to find Rachel's parents so far.
Further note that John has a grandson named Aaron (through his son Rueben), as well as a great-grandson called 'Aaron William'. Aaron is a name that's very uncommon in the Levis trees that I've inventoried so far.
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Since there's absolutely no entry for this John's baptism in the Stanion parish book, I'm now looking at close family of Aaron John Levis that could be a good match.
There's a John baptised in 7 July 1782 in Evington, Leicestershire, son of Olbond Leavis (aka Olban/Olbond Thorn/Albond Thorn/Albine) and Theathany. He's seemingly as second cousin with the children of Aaron John Levis and Elizabeth Weekely.
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Since there's absolutely no entry for this John's baptism in the Stanion parish book, I'm now looking at close family of Aaron John Levis that could be a good match.
There's a John baptised in 7 July 1782 in Evington, Leicestershire, son of Olbond Leavis (aka Olban/Olbond Thorn/Albond Thorn/Albine) and Theathany. He's seemingly as second cousin with the children of Aaron John Levis and Elizabeth Weekely.
since this isn't complex enough already, I've also found a 'Thomas Levis' b. abt. 1790 d. 1860 Ulceby, Lincolnshire who seems to be related to the Stanion Levises.
On the 1851 census for Ulceby, his birth place is listed as 'Stainton, Northamptonshire'. His death in 1860 is reported by 'Aaron Levis' (present at his death in Ulceby), and in the 1861 census, Aaron Levis son of Aaron John Levis and Elizabeth Weekely appears in Ulceby.
I'm now starting to wonder if Aaron John Levis and Elizabeth Weekely might have not baptised multiple children between 1782 and 1796.
Not baptising children is not unheard of in my Levis genealogy research, as I have found quite a few that didn't (for example: some turned to Methodism and stopped bothering with CoE baptisms, or even baptisms in general).
Thomas was married to a 'Mary' from Messingham, Lincolnshire and I'm hoping that their marriage entry in the parish records will show more information; I haven't manage to identified the record yet though.
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My first thought on seeing the name Levis and Rachel and Reuben was to look for Jewish registers, but I can see that all the registrations of major life events were in Church. With the dates involved that will mean searching through parish registers, which are probably not indexed. I'll take a look though.
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My first thought on seeing the name Levis and Rachel and Reuben was to look for Jewish registers, but I can see that all the registrations of major life events were in Church. With the dates involved that will mean searching through parish registers, which are probably not indexed. I'll take a look though.
I've found many old testament names for Levis children, but assumed this was in fashion back in the 18th and early 19th century (as well as their re-cycling of the same names over and over again).
Similarly, I've found many records for Levises with the CoE, various types of Methodist, Baptist, Quakers and other types of protestant dissenters, but for the Leicester/Lincolnshire Levises I have not ever found any Jewish (or Catholic) entries.
I've found Catholic Levises that came over from Ireland, and a few Jewish ones in London (1870-1890 immigration wave from the pale of settlement), but nothing that indicates these are related to the Levises that were already living in England in the 18th and 19th century.
There is a relatively sizable contingent of American Levises that descent from a Samuel Levis who emigrated 1680-ish to Pennsylvania (and these were quakers). Some of these descendants make the claim that they are related to the French 'de Levis' aristocratic family.
I match these American male-line Levis descendants through Y-DNA testing, even though I cannot trace back my own lineage to connect to their ancestors (my direct line has never emigrated to north American as far as I am aware). The Y-DNA haplogroup for these Levises is downstream of I-M253, which is not a Jewish haplogroup.
My personal estimation is that the name 'Levis' is more likely to come from a Danish farmer named 'Leif' or 'Leiv' than Jewish or aristocrat French ancestors.
Of course this doesn't relate directly to the Stanion Levises (until we can prove or disprove their link), but the name Levis is rare enough for me to believe they are very likely to be all related to each other.
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Interesting! Thanks for the clarification. Will keep my eyes open.