RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: kim826 on Saturday 27 February 10 20:46 GMT (UK)
-
I have a brick wall situation going on. I am looking for birth information (as well as parents information) for Gordon Murray (may be McMurray) born around 1805 and Ann Dempster born around 1808. I was told that Gordon was from Ayr, but someone found a census record stating that he was from Sanquhar, Dumfressh, Kirkcudbrightshire and Ann was from Durisdeer, Dumfries. I was also told that they were married in 1826 in Durisdan, Dumfries. I searched at the paid Scotland people site and found absolutely nothing. They had a number of children - the one in the lineage I am researching is John. Supposedly born May 30, 1844. Again I can't find a birth record for him on the paid site. The family emigrated to Bruce Mines, St. Joseph Island, Ontario, Canada and then settled in Negaunee, Michigan. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you for looking at this request - Kim
-
Hi Kim
There is this possible children's birth entry showing for them on IGI at www.familysearch.org. It is an actual extract from the Old Parish Registers so should show on Scotlands People:
AGNES MURRAY Birth:02 OCT 1826 Durrisdeer, Dumfries, Scotland
Parents: GORDON MURRAY and ANN DEMPSTER
There is also a member submitted entry on IGI for another son:
Alexander McMurray Birth: 28 OCT 1843 Sanquhar, Dumfries
There is also a submitted entry on IGI for their marriage in 1826 in Durrisdeer - but bear in mind that this is a submitted entry and may just be assuming a marriage year based on the birth of daughter Agnes above.
Have you found them on any of the early censuses?
Monica
-
This must be the census entry you are referring to that someone gave you details of:
Gordon Murray 45, miners lab., b. Sanquhar, Dumfressh
Anne Murray 42 b. Durisdeer, Dumfressh
Agnes Murray 24
James Murray 23
Robert Murray 21
Grace Murray 19
Gordon Murray 12
Alexander Murray 8
John Murray 6
William Murray 3
Address: Bouls Row 1, Woodhead Lead Mine, Carsphairn, Kirkcudbrightshire
And likely entry for the family in 1841, with McMurray - everyone showing as born in the County of Dumfriesshire:
Gordon McMurray 33, agri. lab
Ann McMurray 31
Agnes McMurray 14
James McMurray 13
Robert McMurray 11
Grace McMurray 7
Janet McMurray 5
Gordon McMurray 2
John McMurray 6 Months
Address: Newtown Of Sanguhar, Dumfriesshire
Monica
-
Yes, those are the census' I found. What I can't find are records of Gordon and Ann's birth as well as their parents. Hence - the brick wall! Thanks - Kim
-
There are 2 results for Statutory Death of Ann Murray other name Dempster, one 1914, other 1915. Did you look at those when you searched SP? They should have her age and parent's names.
Kirsty
edit: I've just reread and see that they moved to Canada. Ignore me!
-
Thank you for trying to help :) Gordon and Ann died in Michigan, but their death records don't list any parents. It's frustrating! Kim
-
I should also note that I found birth records for Robert, William and Agnes on the Scotland people site. No birth or marriage record for Gordon Murray (McMurray) and Ann Dempster or birth records.
-
This is my family. Gordon Murray b. ~1805 Sanguhar Dumfries m. 1826 Anne Dempster b ~1807 Durisdeer, Dumfries. They emigrated to Bruce Mines Canada ~1855. They are listed on Bruce Mines Algoma dist Can 1861 census. Their children were Agnes, 2 Oct 1826 Durisdeer, James 22 Mar 1828 Durisdeer m Ann Ferguson 1824 on 5 Oct 1851 Glencairn, Robert 28 Feb 1830 m 1863 Bruce Mines Ontario Can to Mary McIntyre, Grace b 1832 Penpont, Janet 1836 Sanguhar, Capt Gordon 1839 m1 Elizabeth Coatsworth in 1862 and m2 to Mary McKenzie Mar 1874, John 30 May1844 Newtown of Sanguhar KBT, widowed by 1880 lived in Lead City Lawrence Dakota territory , William 18 May 1847 Carsphairn KBT m1. Elisabeth Wylie m2 Wilhelmina Trethaway, Alexander 28 Oct 1843 m Ann McLeod in 1868 Algoma Dist Bruce Mines. Alexander was killed in a mine accident 1880 Schoolcraft Houghton MI, Thomas 3 Nov 1845 and another John 1840 Sanguhar.Gordon and Ann both died in 1873 and are burried in Neguanee Marquette MI. Gordon is in 1841 census referred to as McMurray. Robert is my gr grandfather. They were lead miners in Scotland, Copper miners in Canada and Iron Ore miners in up Michigan and northern Minnesota. And beyond Gordon Murray I am into the same brick wall. Perhaps he was really Alexander Gordon or James Gordon or Robert Gordon?? They were first settlers and farmed on St Joseph Island Can. There were three Gordon Murray's in Scotland all born within an 8 yr timeframe, one went to the Bahamas, one to Australia and mine to Canada and MI and MN. could they all be related???
-
Good to hear from you. Where are you located? I am working on this tree for my friend, Guy Murray. He comes from the John/Ellen Wylie line, John son of Gordon. We are located in Upper Michigan. My direct email is (*)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
This is my family as well. Janet (known as Jennie) Murray married John McLain from Scotland and they emigrated to Pennsylvania, whereas her parents Gordon Murray and Ann Dempster Murray lived in Michigan. Janet (Jennie) Murray McLain was my great great grandmother.
-
Also, these were the parents and grandparents for Gordon Murray:
Father: John Murray (1780-1874) born in Fyvie, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Mother: Mary Davidson (1784-1850), born in Ruthwell, Dumfriesshire, Scotland.
Grandfather: Alexander Murray 1751-, from Keig, Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
Grandmother: Margaret Cleariehew 1756- , Keig, Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
Hope this helps. I have done extensive research on my family. :)
-
Also, these were the parents and grandparents for Gordon Murray:
Father: John Murray (1780-1874) born in Fyvie, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Mother: Mary Davidson (1784-1850), born in Ruthwell, Dumfriesshire, Scotland.
John Murray died in Fyvie in 1874 aged 92. He is in every census in Fyvie, and listed as born in Keig (not Fyvie), Aberdeenshire.
His wife Mary appears only in 1841, listed as born in Aberdeenshire,not Dumfries-shire, as were all their children who were at home for that census.
John Murray and Mary Davidson had at least 6 children, all born in Fyvie
William, born 1809/1810, no baptism record, probably the one who died in Fyvie in 1897
Ann, born 1812/1813, no baptism record, probably the one who died in Fyvie in 1886
Gordon, baptised 8 October 1815, probably died or emigrated before 1841
John, baptised 18 January 1818
Elizabeth, baptised 23 May 1819
Algernoon, baptised 3 June 1822, probably died before 1841
In spite of being listed in an 1841 census transcription as aged 77, Mary Davidson, wife of John Murray, was aged only 74 when she died in Fyvie in 1850. That, if accurate, means she was born in 1775/1776, and she was 46 or 47 when Algernoon was born, which is just possible, albeit pretty unusual.
Obviously this Gordon Murray cannot be the one who married Ann Dempster, because he would only have been 11 when their daughter Agnes was born.
Also the 1851 census is quite clear that your Gordon Murray was born in Sanquhar (it's not Sanguhar with a g in the middle), in Dumfries-shire, and his age is given as 41, meaning that he was born in 1809/1810. If both his age and the age of William Murray in Fyvie in 1861 are correct, they were born in the same year at opposite ends of the country.
The 1841 says that your Gordon was 33, which if accurate means he was born in 1807/1808, therefore his age in at least one census is inaccurate.
So there is quite a lot of evidence against your Gordon (Mc)Murray being the son of Alexander Murray and Margaret Clerihew. What evidence do you have to suggest that he is?
-
Pleased to see my own family on here. I can answer this easily. I have a family bible with birth records and information indicating that Gordon Murray is indeed the son of John Murray and Mary Davidson, and grandson of Andrew Murray and Margaret Clearihew. And yes, this is the Gordon Murray who was married to Ann Dempster and is the father of Jennie Murray McLain. My family records are extensive. Have a great day!
-
Agnes Murray was baptised on 2 October 1826 in Durisdeer. So she must have been conceived in December 1825 or January 1826.
Gordon Murray, son of John Murray and Mary Davidson in Fyvie, was baptised on 8 October 1815.
Do the arithmetic. When Agnes was conceived, Gordon was only ten (10) years old. He cannot possibly be the Gordon Murray who fathered Agnes.
-
You are absolutely correct. Gordon Murray was born about 1805 in Sanquhar Dumfriesshire Scotland and I believe I read his name as Jardin or a french word meaning garden. It was faint on the tape and in my bucket list is a reminder to go back to the tape and look again. There were 3 Gordon Murray families in that area, one about 1805, one about 1815 and one in 1812, and of the last two, I believe the Sutherland was 1815 and Fyvie 1812 and they ended up in Jamaca. My Gordon ended up in Bruce mines, Algoma District Ontario Canada about 1855 and settled St Josephs Island. They were lead miners in Scotland, Copper miners in Canada and when they crossed into the USA in Upper Peninsula Michigan they were iron ore miners.
Posted in error to me.