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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: John Harpur on Monday 01 March 10 16:58 GMT (UK)
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Hi. I'm trying to establish a link between Francis Harpur, merchant and land owner from Harpur's Lane and S. Main Street listed in Griffiths Valuation and the Francis Harpur who was three time mayor in the early 1800's. And the descendants of Francis Harpur the merchant, especially if there is a connection to Moses Harpur, grocer, publican, iron monger who's family lived at the intersection of Harpur's Lane and S. Main Street. Thanks.
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Doesn't answer your question but it might provide a clue - Houses of Wexford book mentions Riverfield House, Carcur, Wexford, as being purchased by Thomas & Annie Harpur in 1884. Apparently this Thomas Harpur was Mayor of Wexford in 1886-7 and is described as a wealthy and generous corn merchant. Thom's Directory 1900 apparently lists Thomas Harpur J.P. of Riversfield House.
Cheers
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Hi LH. Terrific info. I don't think I've got relatives named Thomas or Anne for this period. By coincidence though, my last living great aunt, Molly Harpur, and a great uncle, her brother Thomas, last lived at Riverview Terrace in Carcur. But these were very modest townhomes. Thanks.
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Hi
I seem to recall reading that the benevolent Thomas I wrote about was credited with building artisans dwellings nearby. Wonder if the house you refer to at Riverview Terrace was one of these.
Cheers
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My cousin Rita Harpur sent me this. Not sure if it helps.
Apropos Thomas Harpur, I was looking through a book Wexford – A Municipal History, and came up with the following.
Thomas Harpur was an Alderman and was first elected Mayor of Wexford in 1886 and was returned to office for a second time in 1887. He was born in 1846, and he represented St Iberius Ward and was a corn merchant in South Main Street. He lived in Riversfield House, Carcur and was quite wealthy and his caring nature resulted in the building of artisans’ dwellings for the less fortunate in society. Mr Harpur was a very active member of the Borough Home Rule Club an at one stage brought them on an outing to Avoca.
Mr Harpur did on one occasion land himself in hot water when he attended the Queen’s Jubliee celebrations but despite this, was a very hard working and dedicated Mayor. He died in St Senan’s Mental Hospital in October 1926, and is buried in Crosstown Cemetary.
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I have been researching the Dalton surname in Wexford Town over the past few years (my family lived in Fisher's Row in the 1930's & 40's) and I recently trawled through the Parish registers in the National Library noting down any references to the Dalton surname. Someone may be interested in the following links to the Harpur's family name:
Marriage records:
15/02/1870 - Catherine Harpur married John Dalton (Witnesses: Richard Codd/Teresa lewis)
05/05/1872 - James Harpur married Sarah Dalton (William Brrne/Mary Brown)
22/09/1879 - Catherine Dalton (nee Harpur) married Garrett Byrne (John Kinsella?/Mary Wade)
[b]Baptisim Records[/b]
Date of birth and date of Bpt
24/09/1872 - 28/09/1872 John Bartholomew Harpur
Father: James Harpur Mother: Sarah Dalton Sponsors: Thomas Halloran/Catherine Murphy
11/08/1874 - 11/08/1874 Walter Harpur
Father: James Harpur Mother: Sarah Dalton Sponsors: James Bell/Mary Kelly
28/11/1875 - 29/11/1875 James Harpur
Father: James Harpur Mother: Sarah Dalton Sponsors: John Dimbar/Bridget Dimbar
19/04/1877 - 20/04/1877 Johanna Harpur
Father: James Harpur Mother: Sarah Dalton Sponsors: John Harpur/Mary Murphy
25/06/1879 - 28/06/1879 Margaret Harpur
Father: James Harpur Mother: Sarah Dalton Sponsors: Eliza Lacy/ ?
Steve
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Hi Steve. My gt.grandfather was James Harpur married to Sarah Dalton. Interesting thing is in my family tree, my grandfather is John James, born 1872 but your record shows him to be John Bartholomew. Grandad lived in Fishers Row with wife Bridget Foley till his death in 1946. He was harbour pilot. Anne
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Hello Anne
This is clearly one and the same person. Do you have any documented evidence of John's second forename being 'Jame's', such as his BC? Do the other 4 siblings I mentioned tie in with your records?
Also do you have any details of Sarah Dalton's eg. her date of birth or date of death?
I've yet to establish a connection between Sarah and my family but as there were only a couple of Dalton families in Wexford Town so she is almost certainly an ancestor.
I have spoken with my mother who lived in Fisher's Row during the 1940's prior to moving to Maudlintown. She mentioned that her elder sister Margaret Dalton and a friend (Frances Carroll) used to take out a little girl called Doleres Harpur in her pram. I understand that her mother was Sally Harpur or possibly Nancy Renford (nee Harpur). Are these member's of your family?
She also recalls 'Rattler' Fortune and believes it was his daughter who married the footballer Ray Clemence of Liverpool FC.
Cheers
Steve
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Hello again. I believe Sarah was born 1851 and died 1927, don't have actual dates. I have a public tree in ancestry.co.uk and there is a fare bit of information there but I havent any on her parents. Delores is Nancy Renforths daughter. The family moved back to Newcastle as I think that is where Nancys husband came from. Rattlers wife Margaret was my grandfather Johns sister. Her daughter Lina lived in Liverpool and her daughter Vera married Ray.
Tree is Liverpool and Wexford Family History Site.. Anne
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Hi Anne
Are you 'yellabelly' because if so we exchanged messages in June 2009 when I enquired about Sarah having see her name in your tree. Her age is stated as 67 in the 1911 census so it appears she would have been born c 1844. (When I was going through the Parish Baptism register I worked backwards from 1880 and have yet to get back that far)
In your tree John 'James' Harpur's d.o.b is stated as 29/01/1872 rather than 24/09/1872 and so next time I'm in the library I'll check the date in the register as I may have overlooked this particular entry. The date of baptism you have recorded for John though is definitely incorrect as children were baptised straight away in those days and the 1875 entry actually relates to another sibling - James b 28/11/1875 not John. Again I'll double check the details.
The 1911 census states that James & Sarah had 10 children, 9 still living. Your tree lists 9 children so the 10th is most probably Johanna b 1877 as stated in my earlier post.
I've never heard of the Glynn cemetery and it does seem odd that when James Harpur died in 1924 he was not buried in Crosstown as you would have expected if someone was living in William Street when they died.
My mum has confirmed that when she lived in Fishers's Row (1940 - 1948) the Harpur family lived 'next door' although there was a gap between the two houses. The ffrench family lived the other side of her.
Regards
Steve
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Thanks for those dates. The ones I had came from a family member who lived in Dublin. He wrote to my father in Liverpool sometime in the 1980s, asking for information. He then sent me the dates and also said about Glynn. I thought perhaps Sarah had come from outside the town. I think I have a pic of the metal cross on their grave in my site. When I visited grandads house in Fishers Row, Rattler and Margaret lived next door, to the left and I thought Jim Fortune and his wife lived on the right side. I do remember the Ffrench family as I played with Pat Ffrench who was like me on holiday from England. I will send a message to my cousin, another Harpur and see what she makes of it all. Anne
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Hi Anne,
This is the iron cross I photographed in Glynn Cemetery,hope it helps.
Ger
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Thanks Ger. No one seems to know why he was buried there. I assumed Sarah was from that area. I have no other knowledge of her other than she married James. Steve, yes I am yellabelly and I now remember we had contact last year. I do not have any documents to show grandads full name but to my knowledge there are no other Bartholomews in the family. Anne
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Hi Anne,
Hope this helps,
6 May 1872: Sarah Dalton of Henrietta St. of Walter Dalton to James Harper of Bride St. of Joseph Harper. Both of Wexford Town, Wexford RD.
Information from the website http://www.daltondatabank.org
Ger
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Once again it's Ger to the rescue. Great site. Hope it helps Steve also. Anne
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Hi All
Noticed your posts on the Harpur family of Wexford town I am looking for information on a Mary Wade (nee Harpur) daughter of John Harpur of Bride Street Wexford who married a Pierce Wade on 30/9/1867 (witnesses were William Byrne and Ellen Malone). Mary and Pierce had a daughter Mary born 24th march 1869, baptised 25th march 1869 witnesses John Wade and Catherine Harpur. I noticed in some of the posts the names Mary Wade and Catherine Harpur and wondered if this has any connection to your Harpur family mentioned.
Regards Canberragirl
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Mary and Pierce had a daughter Mary born 24th march 1869, baptised 25th march 1869 witnesses John Wade and Catherine Harpur.
Also John WADE born 4 Sept.1873 Co. Wexford - parents Pierce Wade & Mary Harpur (see www.familysearch.org).
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Hi Anne,
Hope this helps,
6 May 1872: Sarah Dalton of Henrietta St. of Walter Dalton to James Harper of Bride St. of Joseph Harper. Both of Wexford Town, Wexford RD.
Information from the website http://www.daltondatabank.org
I wasn't previously aware of this site so thanks for the link.
Steve
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Hi All
Noticed your posts on the Harpur family of Wexford town I am looking for information on a Mary Wade (nee Harpur) daughter of John Harpur of Bride Street Wexford who married a Pierce Wade on 30/9/1867 (witnesses were William Byrne and Ellen Malone). Mary and Pierce had a daughter Mary born 24th march 1869, baptised 25th march 1869 witnesses John Wade and Catherine Harpur. I noticed in some of the posts the names Mary Wade and Catherine Harpur and wondered if this has any connection to your Harpur family mentioned.
Regards Canberragirl
You may already be aware of this but there is a Wade living in Bride St in the 1901 census which has been transcribed as 'Peter' but looks more like 'Pierce' to me. He's living on his own & is stated to be a 59 year old widower.
Steve
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Thanks Ger. No one seems to know why he was buried there. I assumed Sarah was from that area. I have no other knowledge of her other than she married James. Steve, yes I am yellabelly and I now remember we had contact last year. I do not have any documents to show grandads full name but to my knowledge there are no other Bartholomews in the family. Anne
Further to the above see attached baptisim record for John 'Bartholomew' Harpur in 1872.
There are only 2 Dalton's baptised in Wexford Town between 1850 & 1860, Patrick in 1856 and his brother John (who is my G.Grandfather) in 1860, to William Dalton & Catherine Redmond. They're probably related to Sarah Dalton in some way but yet to find a link.
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Hi Rattler
I have attached 2 pages of the 1907 baptisms from the register at Bride St Church Wexford Town which may be of interest.
The bottom half contains the entry for my Great Aunt but I also noticed an entry for a James Fortune - son of Nicholas (Rattler?) Fortune and Margaret Harpur of Byrnes Lane - (sponsor Michael Harpur). It's the 10th entry down the page. The Sponsors are noted on the 2nd page.
Steve
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Something to ponder on. I have copied this from my ancestry tree. Happend September, Anne
According to a local paper " Michael Harpur, a young sailor from William Street was reported drowned at Calcutta. Word has it that he was painting over the side of the ship when he fell off the stage and into the water. All efforts to save him proved useless. Harpur had only left home a few weeks before".
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Hello again Steve. I was checking on my ancestry tree with regard to the baptism record and it would appear they had two children within a month of each other. I have their daughter Kathleen Frances born July 1907 and there is James born August same year. Kathleen married ? Mc Evoy and I have her memory card. I will check up on the Mc Evoy tree. Poor Aunt Margaret was a busy girl that year. Anne
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Quote by John Harpur from a message under another topic
Moses had a brother James (mid-1800's) but again his father would have to have been Martin. I don't know if Martin had a brother Joseph.
Moses and his wife Teresa (Stafford) ran a grocery, liquor store, and pub at 55-57 S. Main Street from late 1800's until early 1900's. They also had a iron store on King Street. Moses' children were John, Francis, Patrick, Aiden, James, William, Molly, Elizabeth (Cullimore). Several emigrated to USA or South Africa.
Hi John
As requested in your personal message here is a copy of the 1890 Baptism record for Mary Kate Harpur, daughter of Moses & Teresa plus sponsors (John Harpur & Mary Rossiter)
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Hi Steve. I was reading over some of the past posts on here. I was puzzled when you mentioned the family who lived next door to my Grandparents, but then noted your mother moved in 1948. I stayed with my Aunt Sally Byrne/Harpur in 1950 for the summer. I remembered Jim Fortune and his wife lives next door on the right, left was Rattler. Jim played accordion sometimes as he sat on the window sill outside their house. He also played as we came down the river on the Ffrench's boat after a trip to Kilmore. Lovely memory. Anne
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Hi Steve. My gt.grandfather was James Harpur married to Sarah Dalton. Interesting thing is in my family tree, my grandfather is John James, born 1872 but your record shows him to be John Bartholomew. Grandad lived in Fishers Row with wife Bridget Foley till his death in 1946. He was harbour pilot. Anne
Hi Rattler
I thought you may like to see the Rowe St Church Parish register entry for the marriage of your GF John Harpur to Bridget Foley on 28/04/1900.
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Thanks for that Steve. I am heading over to Wexford 1st week in October so hope to do some more research myself. Anne
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Me again. I was trying to work out the comment in last column. Would it be a special dispensation so they didn't have to wait the usual 3 weeks. Grandad was a sailor and my dad's eldest brother John was born 15 May. Just made it with enough time to be respectable. Anne
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Me again. I was trying to work out the comment in last column. Would it be a special dispensation so they didn't have to wait the usual 3 weeks. Grandad was a sailor and my dad's eldest brother John was born 15 May. Just made it with enough time to be respectable. Anne
This latin comment appears in quite a few entries but I haven't as yet checked out what it means!
It looks like John Harpur was actually born on the 14th May and then baptised on the 15th - see attached copy of the Rowe St church parish register entry.
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Hi Rattler
I took another look at your excellent tree on Ancestry. For the 1911 census you state that the whole Harpur family, other than the eldest child John Harpur b1900, are living in Fishers Row and that John is still living in Mary Street as the nephew of the O'Rourkes/Rourkes.
However there IS a John Harpur aged 10 stated on the 1911 census!. The child missing is Patrick b1906 and as only 5 of Bridget's 6 children are still living it's highly likely that Patrick died young.
There is a John Harpur aged 10 living with the O'Rourkes/Rourkes in 1911 as there was in 1901. I wonder if he was recorded 2 x ?
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Something to ponder on. I have copied this from my ancestry tree. Happend September, Anne
According to a local paper " Michael Harpur, a young sailor from William Street was reported drowned at Calcutta. Word has it that he was painting over the side of the ship when he fell off the stage and into the water. All efforts to save him proved useless. Harpur had only left home a few weeks before".
Hi Rattler
Whilst looking for Bridget Walsh in the early 1880's baptism registers I came across the baptism record for Michael Harpur from March 1881. The year of birth differs to that in your tree (c1874)
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Thanks again. I have looked at tree again and new date for Michael makes sence. He would have been in mid 20s when he met his rather grisly end. I have always had a fear of sharks since dad told me that story. Searching has become a lot easir with ancestry since they added more Irish records I will makwe notes of dates before I go over later this month and hope the clergy are in the mood for shareing their records.
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I will make notes of dates before I go over later this month and hope the clergy are in the mood for sharing their records.
As you know your families tended to reside on the South side of town and therefore you'll find most of the post 1883 parish records relevent to you in Bride Street sacristy. The good thing is that the registers are now kept in a small room off of the main sacristy so that you don't feel like you're in the way whilst viewing the registers as the sacristy can get quite busy. Time your visits around mass times when the sacristy will be open.
Registers for Wexford Town before about 1883 (newly bound copies - not originals) are only available in the Rowe St sacristy. The pre 1880 registers can also be viewed on microfilm in the library.
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You're a star. I will book a slot in the library and check out there as well as church records. thanks again.
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Hello again. I didn't manage to get much research done on my visit in March. Running out of wind these days so trips up hill where few. Next visit, I will have someone with me who can drive. When I was there I did see my cousin John Harpur in Bernadette Place. He said Dad was working with his father on the Pilot Boat before joining the Merchant navy to sail on the Lancastria. Is there a place where those working on the Pilot Boat would be recorded. I know he joined Cunard around 1930 age 25 so I am looking for records from maybe his teens till then. Anne
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When I was there I did see my cousin John Harpur in Bernadette Place. He said Dad was working with his father on the Pilot Boat before joining the Merchant navy to sail on the Lancastria. Is there a place where those working on the Pilot Boat would be recorded. I know he joined Cunard around 1930 age 25 so I am looking for records from maybe his teens till then. Anne
Hi Anne
On May 10th 1922 a new tug & pilot boat was brought into service in Wexford Harbour named the "Loch Garman". There's a picture of it on page 167 of John Power's book "A Maritime History of Co Wexford, Vol II 1911 - 1960.
The caption underneath the photo states, "On board the new tug and pilot boat "Loch Garman" (left to right): Paddy Marlow, Tom Morris (pilot master), Johnnie Harper, Mikie Pender and Jimmy Busher (sen).
('Johnnie Harper' could possibly be either your GF John Harpur or your Uncle John Harpur.
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I bought Vol 11 on my visit and have since bought Vol 1. The Johnnie in the photo was Grandad and Dad said his Mum always called him that. Jack O'Leary did send another photo of the Pilot boat but just about the start of WW11. I am almost sure Dad was on it but it was a little blurred. Not sure which book Jack got the photo from.
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Dear Shorts, My Grandfather was William Dalton son of John Dalton at the same address as yours. Until today when I found roots chat all I knew was that he had one brother named Thomas who went to Brooklyn ,New York and that he had other brothers and sisters. Please get in touch asap. I am so pleased to have gleaned this information from this side of my family. He married an Elizabeth Gray in India and my Mother , Margaret was his eldest daughter and my Aunt Frances was her younger sister. My Mother married a John Thew and they had 6 children , John Patrick William , Francis Dominic, Robert George Michael, Mary Margaret Elizabeth(me) , Anthony Gerald and Sarah-Jane Catherine. Look forward to hearing from you.
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Hi Mary
Great to hear from you. I have plenty of info to share with you. However as this thread is on the topic of the Harpur family it'll be best if we continue our exchanges using the personal message system. n.b. You need to make 3 posts before being able to use it.
(I have photgraphs of some of William's brothers & sisters as well as various certificates that I can e-mail you if you wish)
Steve
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Hello Steve, Wonderful to hear from you and what news you have too. As I only joined last this site yesterday I am still finding my way round. I am assuming that this counts as a second post? so just one to go before I can reply using the private message system. Thank you once again. Mary.
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Hello Canberragirl. I am only seeing this post now. can you get in touch. Re harpur wade delaney wexford town. contact me on (*)
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