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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: donno on Monday 01 March 10 17:37 GMT (UK)
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My greatgrandmother was Maria McCormack nee Frewen. Would anyone have any information on the Frewen family who were living at Hanover Lane in the 1911 census. I know her brother's name was William because he was buried with my grandmother and died in the 1950s. Many thanks.
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Here is a list of the Frewen that lived in Dublin in 1939
Frewen, Annie 1939-40 RATHMINES EAST GC 175 26 CHARLESTON ROAD
Frewen, Annie 1939-40 RATHMINES WEST HJ 945 14 LEINSTER ROAD
Frewen, Edmond 1939-40 RATHMINES WEST HJ 942 14 LEINSTER ROAD
Frewen, Elizabeth 1939-40 CRUMLIN VA 2350 124 DOWNPATRICK ROAD
Frewen, John 1939-40 RATHMINES EAST GH 155 5 MILLTOWN ROAD
Frewen, John 1939-40 RATHMINES WEST HJ 943 14 LEINSTER ROAD
Frewen, Josephine 1939-40 RATHMINES EAST GC 174 26 CHARLESTON ROAD
Frewen, Margaret 1939-40 RATHMINES WEST HJ 944 14 LEINSTER ROAD
Frewen, Michael Rev. 1939-40 TERENURE YD 417 20 KIMMAGE ROAD, EAST
Frewen, Robert 1939-40 GLASNEVIN CA 1764 8 DE COURCY SQUARE, WEST
Frewen, Sarah 1939-40 GLASNEVIN CA 1763 8 DE COURCY SQUARE, WEST
Frewen, William 1939-40 CRUMLIN VA 2349 124 DOWNPATRICK ROAD
It looks like William that lived in Crumlin was living with a Elizabeth.
Also looks like Julia Frewen got married in 1929. You could request her marriage cert to see what her married name is?
Dublin South, Oct Dec 1929.
Looks like William Jnr died in Oct-Dec 1945 in Dublin South
Looks like William Snr died in Apr-Jun 1915 Dublin South
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donno
I sent you a pm but you may not have read it.
Do you have a Sophia Frewen in your family around 1840s
Thank you
Ann
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Dear Golden Oldie, Sincere Apologies. Haven't been on the forum in a while. I actually havn't gone back far enough with the Frewen family yet to know if we have a Sophia yet. There isnt anyone left really in our family who has information on the Frewens at all, so I am really working in the dark on this one.
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Most of the Frewens prior to 1840's came from Limerick/Tipperary. There was a Sophia Frewen married (1812) to a William Tisdall in Limerick.
Rs,
K.
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Hello Kerryman thank you for your post
My Sophia Frewen said on the census of 1851 that she was born in Dublin. I have her marriage certificate from 1847 showing her marriage in Dublin St Marys Anglican Church, to an englishman George Chipperfield. This is where I am stuck. I cant seem to get back before this. I would like to find more family and I wanted to find out why he was in Dublin. He gives his occupation as cabinet maker.
Although they live in London one of her children was born in about 1853 Kildare.
Any ideas where I go from here ???
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Does the marriage cert include Mary's father's name and occupation ?
Shane
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found the marriage on IrishGenealogy - Mary's father was Thomas and he was a printer
Marriage of George Chipperfield and Sophia Frewen - 27 Dec 1847 (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/8c71260905180)
I'll see if I can locate any details on Thomas....
Shane
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Shane, thank you very much
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There's no sign of a Thomas Frewen as a printer listed in Thom's 1850... The directory only covers Dublin city and county, so wouldnt show him if he was from outside Dublin. The trade listings dont include everybody, and would probably only show Thomas is he ran his own business.
Just one Frewen listing in the Index - a Stephen Frewen, Solicitor with addresses at 16 Kildare St, Dublin and also at Limerick
In 1850 the address given by the bride and groom on the marriage record of 57 Jervis St is listed as :
Robert Stephen Chamberlain, professor of dancing
St. Mary's Dispensary
Shane
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I appreciate your help. I think I have hit the brick wall on my Frewens. Maybe one day someone will find that they have Sophia as a relation.
I always thought the address on the marriage certificate read 57 James Street, but the writing is not too easy to read so I will change my records for that
Kind regards
Ann
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I agree that the residences for bride & groom on the cert are difficult to read. IrishGenealogy have interpreted these as Jervis St, and I think they are correct. There are very definite i dots over the street name - which fits, and also most of Jervis St is in the civil parish of St. Marys which fits with the church and parish where the marriage took place. The squiggle after Jervis is very strange - doesn't really look like St, but I cant think of what else it could stand for ...the number is too high for a terrace or lane
James' St is in the parish of St. James
Shane
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Interesting that Sophia Frewen’s father’s was a Thomas – this Christian name is associated with the Limerick Frewens, who are a branch of the Frewens of Northiam. Between the two, there are dozens of Thomas Frewens.....
A Thomas Frewen born Northiam, Sussex 1611 is generally regarded as the founding member of the family in Ireland. His grandson, Rev. Thomas Frewen, Rector of Castleconnell was father of William Frewen, Gentleman, who married Phebe Davis on 16th May at St. Bridgets, Dublin (Marriage Lists for 1754 Dublin) and who had a daughter Sophie. Not your one, but an example of the coincidence of names.
The only Sophia Frewens I have come across are from the Castleconnell, Co. Limerick branch of the Frewen family. Apart from the Sophia who married Tisdall I mentioned above, the others are:
Limerick Chronicle Saturday 15 November 1800
Married last Thursday to Ml. Ryan, Sadler of Newport, Co. Tipperary, to Miss S. Frewen daughter of Mr. Frederick Frewen late of Castle Connell.
Clare Journal Monday 28 January 1811
On Thursday morning Mr. William Erson of Limerick to Miss Sophia Frewen daughter of the late John Frewen, Esq., of Castle Connell.
Limerick Evening Post Wednesday 2 September 1812
Married on Sunday Mr. W. Tisdall of this city, grocer, to Miss Sophia Frewen, daughter of the late J. Frewen of Castle Connell, Esq.
Shanew – re the Stephen Frewen, Solicitor with addresses at 16 Kildare St, Dublin and Limerick – I suspect that the Dublin address is an accommodation one, as there is a requirement for a country lawyer to maintain a Dublin postal address for service of documents. Stephen is a name common in the Limerick (and Northiam) family. There were several generations of lawyers (many Williams) in the Limerick and Tipperary families.
From the Frewen families listed in the second post on this thread, most are from the Tipperary branches, but the Crumlin ones are as far as I know not (closely) related to them. My suggestion is to concentrate on the Castleconnell branch and you might be lucky!
Rs
K.
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Your help is really great. I do not want to take up too much of your time but one last thing.
As my members name suggests I am not a youngster and could not travel to Ireland although it is my dream. Where are the best places (sites etc ) to carry on my research.
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Hi G.O.,
The Lawrence Frewin site has a good amount of info. Unfortunately, there are so many Thomas Frewen men - particularly in the Limerick branch - that it's a nightmare to research them. Prior to about 1850 in Ireland also enters a more difficult era.
Your best bet is to build up a family profile from those you know, including siblings and push back from there. You have clues - Sophia is a Limerick Frewen name and tradition in the Frewen family is that the Castleconnell (Limerick) branch remained Church of Ireland (Anglican) until the 1800s. Your Sophia, while born in Dublin, was married in a CoI ceremony. The other contemporaneous 'cluster' of Frewens is in Tipperary, they were as far as I know all Catholic in the post 1800 era. I've not done any research in Limerick, but someone here may be able to point you to a Heritage Centre there or in Clare, as Castleconnell is almost on the border between the two counties...
Good look in the search,
Rs
K.
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Hi Golden Oldie,
The witnesses at Sophia Frewen & George Chipperfield's wedding in 1847 are James Mayfield & Ellen Maria Mayfield (nee FREWEN) who were husband and wife and ancestors of my wife. Ellen Maria Frewen was born about 1804 in Limerick and married James Henry Mayfield (b c1788) a Jeweller, in 1830. Ellen maybe the sister of Sophia, or possibly the sister of Sophia's father Thomas Frewen. Ellen died in about 1879, after which James Mayfield moved to London to be with his now dead daughter's ( Ellen Maria Fetherston) family headed by his son-in law John Thomas Fetherston (b c1825 Dublin). You can find them in the 1881 census. James Mayfield lived to 103 yrs.
renibacterium
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Thank you very much for this information. This is my first link after many years and I will follow it up.
I am really grateful
Regards
Ann
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I looked in my file of Misc. Frewen/Frewin/Fruin/Fruen 's using Mayfield as a searchword and found a single entry - James Mayfield and Ellen Maria married on 25 Jul 1830 in St John’s Limerick. Today St. Johns is the Catholic cathedral in Limerick, (present one built in 1861) ....wonder if the earlier St. Johns also was RC, which is interesting, considering that Sophia in Dublin married in a CoI ceremony. It also proves my hunch that there was a strong likelihood of a Limerick Frewen connection ;)
Rs
K.
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I have come across this before. There were two churches in or around Limerick with the name St John's . One was RC and the other, which is where James Mayfield and Ellen Maria Frewen got married, was COI.
renibacterium
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It looks like Limerick is the place to be looking.
Would I be able to get the marriage certificate from anywhere?
regards Ann
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Marriage Certs are only available from the start of civil registration, which was in 1845 for non-Catholic marriages. Before this you will be looking for parish registers. Unless you can view the original, or a microfilm of it, these are usually available as transcripts of the records.
The only online source I know of at them moment for parish records for Limerick city is the pay-website of the Irish Family History Foundation at www.rootsireland.ie Note : early marriage records are often quite basic - so the record may only show date, names of the bride and groom, and witnesses (i.e. no parents or occupations)
Shane
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It looks like Limerick is the place to be looking.
Would I be able to get the marriage certificate from anywhere?
regards Ann
The baptism of Sophia Frewen is now on Irish Genealogy Church Records. Dublin(RC) , St Mary, Pro Cathedral, on 9 August 1823. Father Thomas Frewen, mother Mary of Dorset St. Witnesses William Frewen & Ellen Frewen ( probably siblings to Thomas, Ellen married James Mayfield in 1830). reni.
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After all this time, I revisited this side of my family tree with some of the older members of the family. The story in the family is that my ggrandmother (Maria Frewen) attended a French Hugeneot church around Patrick Street near where the current Iveagh Buildings stand. I have checked and can find neither a church (although St. Patrick's Cathederal did have a Hugeneot chapel), nor any mention of the surname Frewen as a Hugeneot name.
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Donno,
See my response #12 earlier. The Huguenot suggestion is IMO a wrong lead. There was a William Samuel Frewen involved in a court case over an election (City Council?) in the 1850's in Dublin. He was a Relieving Officer (+/- Welfare Officer) in Meath St area (not far from Hannover Court/ Patrick St.) and was accussed of buying votes for his candidate. What lineage have you got to date?
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Its been a while now since I last looked at this side of the family. To date I have discovered my gggrandfather William Frewen married Maria Bishop on 29/1871 (no helped by the fact that his surname has been recorded as Finen, Fruen and Fruin !!). They had six children..Lucy born 1877 died 1878, John Joseph born 1872 died 1878, William born 1884 died 1945, Maria born 1878 died 1964, Julia born 1888 died 1931 and Frederick born 1885 died 1902. All on Irish Genealogy.
I found the marriage for William Frewen & Maria Bishop and his father and mother are both listed. They were William & Lucy Frewen and were living at 5 Wood Street. William (their son) was listed as living at 5 Burkes Cottages on the marriage cert. Would this have been normal, the fact that he was not living at the same place as his parents. He was living at the same address as the two witness to the marriage - John and Agnes Bishop. I actually have a photo of this Agnes Bishop which is great, but no other information on her.
I have really hit a blank wall with William & Lucy Frewen so any help at all would be great.
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Its been a while now since I last looked at this side of the family. To date I have discovered my gggrandfather William Frewen married Maria Bishop on 29/1871 (no helped by the fact that his surname has been recorded as Finen, Fruen and Fruin !!). They had six children..Lucy born 1877 died 1878, John Joseph born 1872 died 1878, William born 1884 died 1945, Maria born 1878 died 1964, Julia born 1888 died 1931 and Frederick born 1885 died 1902. All on Irish Genealogy.
I found the marriage for William Frewen & Maria Bishop and his father and mother are both listed. They were William & Lucy Frewen and were living at 5 Wood Street. William (their son) was listed as living at 5 Burkes Cottages on the marriage cert. Would this have been normal, the fact that he was not living at the same place as his parents. He was living at the same address as the two witness to the marriage - John and Agnes Bishop. I actually have a photo of this Agnes Bishop which is great, but no other information on her.
I have really hit a blank wall with William & Lucy Frewen so any help at all would be great.
Omitted to say Father deceased!
Have you looked for Death of father?
Help if one posts Links to things they found!
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11333/8159555.pdf
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Name LUCY FREWEN
Year of Death 1873
Group Registration ID N/R
SR District/Reg Area Dublin South
Deceased Age at Death 48
Returns Year 1873
Returns Quarter 1
Returns Volume No 2
Returns Page No 584
??
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Omitted to say Father deceased!
Have you looked for Death of father?
Help if one posts Links to things they found!
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11333/8159555.pdf
Thank you Hallmark. I didn't realise William's father was deceased at the time of the marriage...was this on the original parish record ? I have looked for his death but have drawn a blank.
Unfortunately, I am not very computer literate so unable to put up links, but I did say I found the information on Irish Genealogy.
Thank you for the information on Lucy Frewen. I think this may be a good lead, but I need to visit the GRO in order to find this death cert..so fingers crossed.
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It's on the link I posted!!
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Omitted to say Father deceased!
I need to visit the GRO in order to find this death cert..so fingers crossed.
No you don't, just go to any Registry office in Ireland quoting
Name LUCY FREWEN
Year of Death 1873
Group Registration ID N/R
SR District/Reg Area Dublin South
Deceased Age at Death 48
Returns Year 1873
Returns Quarter 1
Returns Volume No 2
Returns Page No 584
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https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do
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Omitted to say Father deceased!
Have you looked for Death of father?
Help if one posts Links to things they found!
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11333/8159555.pdf
Thank you Hallmark. I didn't realise William's father was deceased at the time of the marriage...was this on the original parish record ? I have looked for his death but have drawn a blank.
Unfortunately, I am not very computer literate so unable to put up links, but I did say I found the information on Irish Genealogy.
Thank you for the information on Lucy Frewen. I think this may be a good lead, but I need to visit the GRO in order to find this death cert..so fingers crossed.
I found that information on Irish Genealogy
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Just realized it can't be her.... too early!!
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Lucy
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1928/04963/4350961.pdf
??
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C Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for Frewen
Area - Dublin
Displaying results 1 - 64 of 64. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lp1/
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Dear Hallmark, thank you very much for all the trouble you have gone to on my behalf. I think we might have been at cross purposes. My original enquiry was about my greatgrandfather William Frewens parents - William and Lucy Frewen, as I have traced the children of William & Maria (Bishop) Frewen
I found the original PARISH marriage register on the Church Records of Irish Genealogy for the wedding of their son William (my greatgrandfather) to Maria Bishop. This register was the only reference I have found anywhere in my searches for William's (my ggf) parents - William and Lucy. It is this couple I am now trying to trace. I think your link was to the CIVIL marriage cert which does indeed state that William's father was deceased at the time of the marriage.
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Hallmark, in relation to the information on the Lucy Frewens - this is what I have come up with from the Irish Genealogy website. Baby Lucy Frewen (daughter of William & Maria) born 1877 and died 1878. This is definitely my greatgrandmother's sister. The Lucy Frewen who died in 1873 aged 48, this is the lady whose death cert I wish to get (I live quite close to the GRO so its actually faster for me to go there, rather than apply for it online, but I have been aware of their online facility for quite some time). I wish the death cert gave females maiden name if they were married, but that would be too good to be true. I am hoping she may be my elusive 3 x great grandmother. The other Lucy Frewen listed who died in 1928...she may possibly be related....perhaps I will never know...as I seem to be hitting a brick wall with these Frewens.
The Frewen family seem to be based in Limerick and Tipperary, but to date I have found no link with my Dublin Frewens ! Again, thank you for taking the time to help. I'll keep you posted.
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Glasnevin
https://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/ use advanced search
change ''exact'' to ''contains'' in both first and surname boxes
change ''exact ''to 10yrs in D O D box
enter a e i o u individually in first name box
enter Frew into surname box
there are several Frewen/Frewin buried there
including a Thomas Frewen 1834 no age given
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Lucy Frewen who died 1873 age 48 is listed on Glasnevin index as Lucy Fruen
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Thanks Dathai..I found Lucy Fruen and bought her burial record around 3.30pm lol. Unfortunately, it only records her address (5 Wood Street) ..I was hoping it would include details maybe of her next of kin...But at least I know this is definitely my ggg grandmother, so the next time I am in Glasnevin I will have a look for the grave. No sign of her husband William being buried there at the moment, but I haven't exhausted all the search options for him yet. Thanks a million.
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Best to give them a phone call before visiting as it could be a common or unpurchased grave which may have been sold on later.
My wife's grandfathers sister died 1903 and when i located the grave exactly a hundred yrs
later it had a brand new headstone on it so i inquired at the office and was told it had been sold recently as it was not purchased previously, i believe this is common practice.
Charles Frewell
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02316/1868012.pdf
William Frewen
http://www.libraryireland.com/Dublin-Street-Directory-1862/236.php
is also on Griffiths Valuations 1854 same address beside Patrick's Close 1854 as Frewin
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
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Did you purchase the book image for Lucy Fruen it usually gives marital status and who caused body to be buried
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I’ve researched the Limerick Frewen line but with no emphasis on those in Dublin. I would place a bet that your family is not from Tipperary and probably has its roots in one of the ‘later’ generations from Co. Limerick. The Tipp line was uniformly RC, while the Limerick branch converted over the 1700’s, usually on marriage
The clues are in the Christian names. The original Frewen in Ireland settled in Castleconnell in the 1650’s. Frewen Family researchers believe that he was Thomas, and that his older brother Joseph was the ‘Captain Frewen’ killed at the siege of Kilkenny. (Whitelock’s Memorials). By the end of the 1600’s the eldest male descendant, named Joseph, had lands in the townlands of Cloon, Lacka and Gardenhill among others which on his death went to his eldest son, Thomas (all those townlands are around Castleconnell - see Memorial extract — Nick Reddan’s Registry of Deeds Index Project Memorial No: 13074 describing the transfer of land owned by Joseph Frewen deceased by his relict & sole executrix Sarah, to their son Thomas Frewen.) Sarah was a daughter of Samuel Eames.
This Thomas attended TCD 1708 – 11 (he’s listed in Alumni Dublinensis) and is the Rev. Thomas Frewen (1688 - 1750) of Castleconnell who married a Mary/Maria Spring. Among their children were Joseph, William and Eames Frewen. The latter had a son Frederick. He was one of the very few Frewens named Frederick and none of that name occur in the Tipperary branch. William married in Dublin (Marriage Lists for 1754: - William Frewen, Gentleman, married Phebe Davis on 16th May). It is not known if he remained in Dublin or if he was William the landholder of Shewer, near Newport, Co Tipp., who also had a younger son and at least one grandson named William (about whom I know little). That land had to be sold and the descendant (c1830-1860) George, took his family (including a son William) to NYC.
The 1700’s saw the beginning of the downward spiral of the wealth of the Castleconnell Frewens. By the early 1800’s the wealthier branches of the family also were beset by land problems (title, unpaid rents and violence associated with rent collection). Younger sons had to ‘make their own way’. Several were in the legal and medical professions. By the late 1700’s there were dozens of Frewens named William, Thomas and John with varying degrees of wealth/poverty, some were Established Church, others – like some of the descendants of Eames Frewen, Roman Catholics. It is impossible to differentiate them with certainty as the records do not exist.
By the first half of the 1800’s those named William Frewen included a prominent Limerick solicitor and another who was transported for life to Australia. William the solicitor and his brother Thomas (a doctor) had ‘a large number of natural children’ according to George Dartnell (1788 – 1862) who married Dr. Thomas’ only legitimate heir, a daughter, Rose. However a son was named in newspaper reports as William. (Waterford Mail of 30th August 1834 with an extract from the Limerick Herald – ‘The Late Doctor Frewen - The sudden death of this gentleman in Dublin under melancholy and peculiar circumstances [he was undergoing bankruptcy proceedings] has caused the deepest affliction in his family. It is affirmed that the manner of concealment both of his death and burial, for many days, from his friends, and in particular from his son, Mr. William Frewen, whom he had desired to meet him at the Bank of Ireland on the day of his decease, but who was left in ignorance of his misfortune, together with some other strange and afflictive reasons, have filled them with the direct alarm at such mystery.’)
William the Solicitor (1756 – 1837) also had a son William Samuel by his wife Anne McCallister. However, his death notice (Freemans Journal 11 August 1837) makes no mention of wife or offspring. The brothers William Solicitor and Thomas MD had to have been Church of Ireland, but Thomas’ son William could have been either CoI or RC as he probably was raised by his mother and took her religion.
I’ve no proof, nor have I ever researched it but always had a slight suspicion that the Doctor's son William was the ‘founder’ of the family that lived in what is now Dublin 8, and is the William Frewen mentioned as witness in the courtcase as a "collector" to the Evening Mail "since it commenced”. (case is covered in the Dublin Evening Post of 28 April 1827).
Of course I could be entirely wrong, but you have some clues above.
Regards,
Bob Frewen
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Dear Bob, thank you so much for all that information. I have often read your posts online re the Frewen family. I wonder if I will able to trace back the line. There are so many conflicting stories in the family in relation to their religion. My greatgrandmother (Maria Frewen) was Catholic, but one of her grandsons told me that she was from a Heugenot family, went to church in St. Patrick's Cathedral and taught them all Protestant hymns. Yet, Frewen is not a Heugenot name but they did have relatives who did have a Heugenot name (Blanchfield)...but these Blanchfields were also Catholics !! I might never get to the end of it Bob, but you have certainly given me enough information there to keep me busy for a while !!
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Hi Donno,
If you come across anything new give me a shout and I’ll see if I can add anything to it, if only to rule it out! I have a collection of various Limerick Frewen family oddments, some of which were given to me by Allan Frewen Chapman (of Mass., USA), an authority on the Limerick branch. He and his late wife were keen genealogists - his maternal line is from a Castleconnell Frewen, Francis, a son of John Frewen of Woodpark, and Elizabeth Jane, third daughter of Vere Dawson Hunt of Cappagh Co. Tipperary who married in May 1831. Thanks to his work I have been able to resolve many questions on Frewens in the US and tie them in to Tipperary or Limerick branches. Best of luck with the research
Regards
Bob
PS The Blanchfield surname - surely that is of Norman origin and not Huguenot?
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Hello,
I know I am 6 years late.
However, I have almost finished writing a family history which partially includes the Frewens, mostly in England, from 1470 to date.
My father Roger 1914-1972 took me to Tipperary in 1967 to meet up with a family of 4 successful Frewen brothers. This was the first time the two branches of the family had met for 300 years. Those family members who had supported Cromwell found themselves in Ireland at the Restoration and decided to stay. The Family royalists were royally rewarded for their support and their money which had paid for Charles II's army, two of them lived in Holland under Cromwell with prices on their heads.
It was a happy reunion. I was 13 and I remember the full-sized snooker table in their house!
My great-grandfather Moreton Frewen 1853-1924 was MP for Cork, briefly.
We have Leslie cousins in Galway and Monaghan - Castle Leslie.
Please feel free to get in touch if you would like to share more information.
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Hi Jonathan,
Six years is nothing in the history of the Frewens!
The visit by you and your father was to Robert Anthony (Robin) Frewen at ‘Ardnachree’, originally his parents’ home in Tipperary. He succeeded his father William (1862-1933) in the family law firm, still extant as ‘Kennedy Frewen’ but it no longer has a family connection. Although William had 12 children, including seven sons, only one son married, and he had just one son who is unmarried. William’s daughters had issue in Ireland and Canada. That branch is connected to mine in the 1700s.
Regarding the Frewen branch in Ireland, there is a considerable amount of misinformation online, due to widespread copy/paste of erroneous data or unsourced assertions. From his correspondence with Ireland’s Ulster King (Chief Herald) it's evident your great great grandfather, Thomas F of Northiam (1811-70) was unaware that after the death of Joseph F (1598-1602) another Joseph was born (1606). The omission was repeated by H. Warne in the catalogue of the Frewen papers. However, Joseph is mentioned several times in the 1628 will of his father Rev. John. I am confident that the ‘Captain Frewen’ killed at Kilkenny in 1650 was this Joseph and the founder was Thomas, whose older half-brother, Thankful, in his will of 1656, has Thomas as a beneficiary.
Glad to be of help on the Irish branch if required.
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Bob, Thank you so much for your response, I am grateful for the Tipperary information.
Below I have found out the Frewen line from which I am descended and which might be of interest to you too. I have a bit more information from Worcester Cathedral's archives if that interests you as well, I can post it here?
Where in Ireland do you live, please? I visit about once a year in Dublin, Monaghan and Galway, all my Leslie cousins and the Vandenberghe family in Tipperary, their grandson is my godson, Oscar Gidley-Kitchin. And you know about Innishannon and Moreton's house which was burned down in the Troubles in 1922?
Best wishes.
The Frewen straight-line chronology from 1364
John Frewen in Worcester in 1364. Probably his grandson:
Richard Frewen lived from (1400-1499)
Richard Frewen de Forthey (d.1546)
Roger Frewen (d. 1576) who married Eleanor Bartlett
Richard Frewen, who married Margaret Greenwood (d. 1598)
Reverend John Frewen (1560-1628) who married Eleanor Butler (d. 1606)
Stephen Frewen (1600-1679), who married Katherine Scott (1602-1679)
Thomas Frewen (b. 1630) third wife, Bridget Laton (d.1679)
Reverend John Frewen (1677-1735), who married Rachel Stephens (1675-1751)
Reverend Thomas Frewen (1708-1791) who married Esther Simpkin (d. 1803)
Colonel John Frewen (1755-1829), who married Eleanor Clark (1786-1879)
Thomas Frewen (1811-1870) second wife, Helen Louisa Homan (1821-1901)
Edward Frewen (1850-1919) who married Anne Mary Byng (d. 1922)
Thomas Frewen (1874-1928) who married Maud Bowers, née Blake (1885-1971)
Edward Peter Blake Frewen (1921-1943) – line extinct
Edward Laton Frewen (1877-1941) who married Ethel Lilian Salter
Edward Frewen (1905-1992) who married Mabel Inkster (1908-1983)
William Edward Laton Frewen (b. 1940) who married Catharine Auburn Frerichs (b. 1943)
Duncan Edward Frewen (b. 1968)
Edward Frewen (1850-1919)’s brother:
Moreton Frewen (1853-1924), who married Clara Jerome (1852-1935)
Hugh Moreton Frewen (1883-1967), who married Princess Maria Elena Camilla Nunziante (1886-1974)
Roger d’Hauteville Moreton Frewen (1914-1972), who married the Hon. Helen Alexandra Briscoe Gully (b. 1934)
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Bob,
There were two other Irish Frewens in the 1960's living in England:
Arthur Frewen was a school master at Hawtreys prep school, who taught English and who wrote the play The Man in the Green Coat which was shown in the West End of London in 1962.
William known as Bill Frewen; his wife Eileen and son William, they lived at Gerrard's Cross. Bill was a gynaecologist.
Any information from whence they came please?
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Jonathan,
Thanks for that info. I’ve not progressed beyond Richard F who was Bailiff of Worcester in 1473. I have some records of ‘odd’ Frewens prior to that date, around Hanley Castle (and elsewhere) but cannot connect them to Richard. (Mainly from Dr. Toomey's work.)
Rev. John F (d1628) is our common ancestor, you descend from his son Stephen, the Irish branch from Thomas, a son from Rev. John’s second marriage (to Helen Hunt).
Arthur F (1912-2002) the teacher/playwright you mention also had a play staged in the Abbey Theatre in Dublin, and there is a record of his correspondence with Micheál Mac Liammóir in the National Library (or Nat. Archives?). Arthur was one of the sons of William the solicitor mentioned above and was an older brother of. William F MD. The latter married Eileen Courteney, whose sister Kathleen Courteney married Josef Vandenbergh, hence the connection.
I’ve sent you a message on LinkedIn – use it to send me your email so we can continue in a less public forum.
Best wishes,
Bob