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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Plummiegirl on Wednesday 03 March 10 13:03 GMT (UK)
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Both my father & my great uncle worked in the Garage/Workshop for the above firm, which was somewhere round the back of Liverpool Street station. I think my step-granddad may also have worked there.
What I would like to know is where I can find the old records for this firm. I have googled but all I get is information about stamps (which they printed). I have been unable to find out where all the old company records are kept, do not think they are at LMA. Not too worried about this so much now.
Can anyone help or put me onto someone who may know about this. I also have in my possession 2 photos of all the workshop staff standing by a coach ready to go off on a beano. This would have been in the mid to late 1950's.
My father was Arthur Simpson (from London), my Uncle John Butler (from Ireland) & my step-grandfather Bill Sturdy (from Yorkshire). Yes I am a mongrel!! Also a girl I went to primary school whose surname was King, her father also worked here.
UPDATES: Yippee have finally uploaded 1 photo, uncle John (John Butler) is the man standing next to the supervisor in the suit. And now the 1 of the 2 others. They are almost identical so have only uploaded 1. My dad is the tall young chap in the middle of the back row.
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A quick google on the companies name, mentions that there are records at the Bedfordshire and Luton Archives & Record Services. I think the company must have moved to Dunstable in its latter years.
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Thank for that I will be contacting them.
How is it that when I googled all I got was articles on stamps & ebay to buy stamps, but nothing about Luton.
I did know that they moved from London. I think they merged with another company at some time in the late 60's early 70's. And I think that is around the time the name of Waterlow & Sons may have been dropped.
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Hello Plummiegirl
I would love to know if you have had any success tracing Waterlow records.
I believe my great-great grandfather, a bank-note engraver, worked for them also. This would be prior to 1930. I have a large book of samples from the firm which passed through our family, and I may never know if some of it could be my gg grandfather's handiwork.
I have been trying to find any records of the firm for a while now without much success (but it's a bit tricky from across the water). At one time I contacted De La Rue which acquired the company in the 60's I believe, but they replied promptly that they had not inherited any archive material from Waterlow & Sons.
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Oops, sorry have not got that far.
I am researching ALL the branches of my family which means that sometime some bits get forgotten.
As this thread was.
So sorry.
Will make a note of this and put it in with my things to do (loads of them!! as you can imagine)
Will update as and when I get round to Waterlow & Sons.
Have so many "old" companies I am looking into, I sometimes feel I am just chasing my tail.
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They also had a factory in Hyde, Cheshire
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a2a, the catalogue of national archives, shows 126 entries containing the name Waterlow and Sons:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/results.aspx?tab=2&Page=1&ContainAllWords=Waterlow+and+Sons
Keith
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Both my father and mother worked at Waterlow's the printers during the 1930's in the London offices.
Recently I tracked down my half great great uncle (my great great grandfather's son by a second wife), and in 1911 he was a printer in Maidstone and then I suddenly found him enlisting in the army from an address in Dunstable. I then found his marriage in Bedfordshire, and when I looked back at his wife when she was with her family in the 1911, I saw they were all lithographic printers, in Waterlow Road, Dunstable.
I am ashamed to say it took a little time for the significance of the name of the road to dawn on me (despite it being a long time family story about where my parents met).
Then when I googled Waterlow's I found that they operated in Maidstone and in Dunstable and in London too. He'd evidently moved from one works to another.
If you ever do find anything else about Waterlow's, Plummiegirl, perhaps you'd add me to your list of people who'd be interested?
Incidentally, my father (seen in my avatar) was a Conscientious Objector in WWII, and when he announced that to Waterlow's they promptly gave him the sack (he spent the war in the ARP). My mother remained there, but declined to print the bombing maps they produced, and they gave her the sack too. She was a VAD.
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I thought I had read somewhere that records from the firm had been destroyed in the war, but where I read that or whether I'm confusing it with another of my brick walls, I can't remember. Like you plummie I've been chasing a few tails (and tales) over the past year or two! Every once in a while I resurrect this one... in fact I found this thread while googling.
I'm not sure if I'll ever find out whether my gg grandfather worked for them, but it seems likely for a number of reasons. And after all I think there are few places England where a banknote engraver would be employed? (I can safely tell people my gg grandfather made a lot of money at his job.... just unfortunately none of it was his!) Also I know my family and the Waterlows were at the very least acquainted - an elderly cousin told us they were friends of the family, and one of them helped her get her first job at a bank when she was a young girl. I'm sure my family moved in different circles than theirs and so 'friends' might be a stretch, but employers could be more likely!
Find it interesting that a number of us are coming out of the woodwork suddenly!
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A brief history of Waterlow & Sons may be helpful.
The origins of the printing company date back to 1810. Waterlow & Sons Limited was incorporated in 1897 and by the 1920s was one of Britian's largest printers of bank notes, stamps as well as other material.
Waterlow & Sons Limited was acquired by Purnell and Sons Limited in 1960 and in 1961 part of the business of Waterlow was sold to Thomas De La Rue & Co Limited. This was the plant, machinery and goodwill of the security printing part of the business insofar as it related to bank notes, stamps and other forms of security printing produced wholly or partially by the direct plate printing process. Waterlow & Sons Limited remained a subsidiary of Purnell and Sons and continued to carry on all the rest of its printing business. Waterlow & Sons Limited retained the right to security printing which did not use the direct plate printing process and this included the printing of cheques, stock and share certificates etc.
In 1964 Purnell and Sons Limited merged with Hazell Sun Limited to form The British Printing Corporation (BPC), the largest printing company in Europe. The next 15 years saw regular conflicts between management and the unions with regular strikes resulting from the rapid changes being made in the printing industry. BPC closed Waterlow's Hyde (Cheshire) printing works in 1970.
Following several years of losses, Robert Maxwell bought a controlling interest in BPC in 1981 and changed the company's name to British Printing and Communications Corporation (BPCC) in 1982. In October 1987 BPCC changed its name to Maxwell Communication Corporation (MCC) - the name BPCC was reassigned to one of MCC's subsidiaries. As a result Waterlow & Sons Limited became a subsidiary of MCC.
In order to finance huge U.S. acquisitions, Maxwell abandoned or sold most of the printing side of MCC's business to concentrate on publishing. In 1989 Maxwell's deputy and other directors bought most of what was the BPCC Group from MCC. Large parts of the business were abandoned and what remained was merged in 1998 into a new printing conglomerate called The Polestar Group.
Waterlow & Sons Limited was a dormant company by the early 1990s and was put into voluntary liquidation by The Polestar Group in 2004. Its history ends on 20 Jan 2009 with the dissolution of the company.
The Waterlow name does, however, continue to live on as a result of specialist parts of the business having been sold over the years.
Nigel
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Following all the recent activity on this thread I googled the Luton Records Office and their holdings though vast do not appear to cover their premises that were in London.
I do know that they had premises around the country.
Will let you all know what if anything I should find out.
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Following all the recent activity on this thread I googled the Luton Records Office and their holdings though vast do not appear to cover their premises that were in London.
I do know that they had premises around the country.
Will let you all know what if anything I should find out.
Since Waterlow & Sons Limited ultimately became part of The Polestar Group you might contact them for information. However, bearing in mind the history of the company many records were probably destroyed in the 1970s or early 1980s.
Nigel
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My father worked for Waterlows as a monotype operator. I know he worked for them in London before moving to Dunstable. They used to have an annual Christmas Party for the worker's children and I can remember my father taking me into the monotype department after one of these parties.
I have tried to track down photos of the Dunstable factory without much success apart from an aerial photo with the factory in the background. Most of the site where the factory was is now housing, though one of the roads is called Printers Way.
I emailed the Chairman of the DUNSTABLE AND DISTRICT LOCAL HISTORY SOCIETY in January this year to see if they had any information. I did not get a reply!
This link has some useful info http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/wiki/Waterlow_and_Sons:_1934_Review
Dave
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I've just remembered something else.
Waterlow's produced an in house magazine called WandS.
You could try contacting the British Library as they may hold copies of the magazine.
Dave
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Hi,
My name is Michael Sherring, currently living in Sydney Australia. I am researching details on my mother Rosina Ivy Koekkoek, who I believe worked at Waterlows in London at some point in time as a bank note examiner.
On her marriage certificate from 1941, her profession was given as a "bank note examiner" It seems to be hard to find the archive records of Waterlows during this period (say from 1936 - 1956.
Anyone out there got any ideas where I should look
Yours sincerely,
Michael Sherring
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My grandfather worked for Waterlow and Sons after the war for a considerable time. I'm just moving house and have found all his old 'wandS' in house magazines - well there more like books really - from 1946 - 1961. I have what appears to be the first copy which has no title as it had only just been started. Mr. Philip Waterlow invites people to write in with a suitable title with the winner receiving 2 guineas! Absolutely fascinating and I dare say some of you guys on here will have photos of relatives in them. I will get around to having a good look through them all at some point so if you have any names you'd like me to keep a look out for, let me know.
Cheers,
Steve
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Welcome to Rootschat, Steve!
I'm sure you'll have some takers for your kind offer, although sadly my parents (who both worked at Waterlow's, and indeed actually met there ;)) left in the early years of the war.
This was at the London office, though, and I had another relative who looks like he worked in Dunstable, and was probably working till he was 65 in 1955.
So if there are any references to the Dunstable works, for a James Pay, who was probably a lithographic printer (born 1889, so would have retired in about 1949-1955) I'd be really interested. James married a Rose Mary Small, and it appears from the 1911 Census that she also came from a family who were all lithographic printers, possibly at Waterlows works.
I expect you found Rootschat from Googling Waterlows, but now you're here, welcome, and do enjoy yourself looking at the other boards. :D
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Wow this thread seem to have been resurrected after sometime.
Would like to say that I have not really followed up on this.
But would like to thank all contributors and good luck to you all.
As Dad and Uncle worked in the garage/workshop do not think I will be chasing this up too soon.
But would add that a schoolfriends dad also worked there, she was Marion King, and this would have been in around 1960-2.
When I find it again I do have a photo taken on a works outing and will post it on here for all to see. Just need to remember where I put it (not where I thought it would be) ;D
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Hi Steve
My father (William S Hoare) was a member of the Waterlows (Dunstable) Rifle Club and I have 2 certificates confirming that he won competitions in September 1941 and February 1945. I would think that this would have been mentioned in WandS. If you find anything I'd love to see a scan, especially if there is a photo of him.
I have attached a scan of one of the certificates which may have possibly been printed at Waterlows
Regards
Dave
My grandfather worked for Waterlow and Sons after the war for a considerable time. I'm just moving house and have found all his old 'wandS' in house magazines - well there more like books really - from 1946 - 1961. I have what appears to be the first copy which has no title as it had only just been started. Mr. Philip Waterlow invites people to write in with a suitable title with the winner receiving 2 guineas! Absolutely fascinating and I dare say some of you guys on here will have photos of relatives in them. I will get around to having a good look through them all at some point so if you have any names you'd like me to keep a look out for, let me know.
Cheers,
Steve
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I have a small press which has what I thought may be the makers badge, marked Waterlow & Sons London, but after finding this thread it may be an owners badge or they did make their own tooling and at least one item has survived.
I have taken some pictures of it and placed them at
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2011/2011_02_24_waterlow_press_tool/
The badge is pictured below. It had a repaint at some time in the past and that paint layer is chipped showing a typical black with gold lining that printing presses were in the old days.
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My grandfather worked for Waterlows in their London premises in for many years. He was apprenticed to them in 1929 and continued on as a master printer until he emigrated to Australia in 1962. He continued working for them during the war years (very hush hush, I believe). Would love to know if there was mention of his leaving in the company's yearbook. His name Sidney ROE.
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I was apprenticed at Waterlow & Sons in 1946. The works were in George Street, Dunstable, Beds. It was a huge works with all types of printing. Letterpress, Litho, Gravure. It had a large Composing room all kinds of binding and other operations. They had plants in London for Stamps and Banknotes. There was a purpose built plant at Park Royal where they Printed the Radio Times and The Listener.
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I am new to Rootschat and have only just discovered this thread - better late than never:). I may well be able to help with the discussion/questions re Waterlow & Sons and where any records now are. My grandfather joined the company as a compositor in 1901 and stayed there until he retired in 1945. His last position was as Works Manager of the London factory.
In 1960, aged 80, my grandfather wrote to the company asking for financial assistance as he had been asked by the management to give up his union card when he helped with negotiations (in the crypt of St Paul's Cathedral!) during a printers' strike and so lost his printers' pension. The company had promised to pay him a personal pension themselves but this did not materialise due to changes in management. In my grandfather's letter he says:
"Unfortunately nearly all the records .........were destroyed in the fire when the Finsbury Factory was destroyed by enemy action in WW2".
In the letter my grandfather details the 1404 employees in his charge at Finsbury by job and sex although not by name
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Hi viach65
It's possible that my father, my grandfather and my grand uncle all worked with your father.
My father was a monotype operator and my grandfather and grand uncle were a packer and a warehouseman respectively.
My father did move to the Dunstable factory, sometime before the start of WW2 as he was an ARP warden with the Bedfordshire Civil Defence.
Regards
Dave
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Hi Dave:
Yes, I'm sure they would have been there at the same time. In my grandfather's letter he states that on 14 August 1939 he was responsible for 323 male compositors (and 5 female) at Finsbury, 19 men (and 47 female) in the warehouse and 48 men (and 1 female) packers as well as all the other staff such as printers, binders, folders, watchmen, etc etc making up the 1,404 personnel. A monotype operator was a compositor who used a specific machine, I believe.
My grandfather was on a firewatch rota at the factory during WW2 and although not on duty when the factory was hit, he was phoned and had to dash there to help the firefighting and try and rescue what they could.
He also used to visit the Dunstable plant on a regular basis.
Regards
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I have a Waterlow and Sons brass and iron Book Press, I bought it from a university which was a teachers college in Australia,I have just recently relocated to Iceland and have bought it with me and was just looking up the makers name to find info on restoring it back to its former glory and came across this forum.
It is marked with the following on a small brass plaque.
Waterlow and Sons
Limited
London Paris
I have attached a pic.
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Following on from my previous posts, there is an excellent, comprehensive and well researched family history of the Waterlow family that includes a good history of their various companies and businesses at:
www.jaggers-heritage.com/waterlow-family-of-london.phps
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As an example of the other things printed by the company we have a lovely book, which we bought in a second hand shop, entitled The Pictorial Encyclopaedia of Gardening which was printed by Waterlow and Sons Ltd (London, Dunstable and Hyde). It was bound by Nevett Ltd and the copyright is Sampson Low. Interestingly there is no publication date but the illustrations, which are all drawn and painted, suggest the 1950s.
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What a great photo, Plummiegirl, so clear, and such a great picture of the van.
Thanks very much for PMing me to tell me it was posted - hopefully this message will bring the thread back up to the top of the board! ;D
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Thanks Igor
Your reply really did the trick.
Yes the photo is very clear, I do believe it was a professional one done for the magazine or a news article at the time.
I think it was taken in the early to mid 1960's.
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Hoping this will push thread back to top again now that I have added my photos
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Greetings All!
I have just come across this forum as I am doing research for my book. I am wrting the history of my family and the family firm (Waterlow & Sons) and I am keen to get as much information as I can about the company, particularly fomr about 1900 to its final demise in 2009. It would be good to hear from anyone who can help. You never know there might even be a complimentary copy of the book in it for you!
In turn if anyone has any questions I will also try and answer them.
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Hi Chris
Welcome to Rootschat! I don't have very many details about Waterlows, except that my father and mother both worked there, in London, and, indeed, met there. And my family history research has also established that my great great uncle probably also worked at Waterlow's at Dunstable.
However, I will try and find my father's autobiographical notes about the period of time he spent at Waterlows in case this is of interest to you.
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Hello Chris
If you would like copies of the photos I have posted on here, both taken in the London workshop (back of Liverpool Street Station) at the time.
Please PM me and we can arrange it.
Cheers
Plummielass (Christine)
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Thank you for all your messages and kind words of welcome and would be pleased to take you all up on your kind offers. PLeae give me time to get back to you all individually in time as I have lots ofd leads to follow up.
In the meantime, as I said, please feel free to ask me any questions you may have and I'll see if can answer some of them.
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Just found out why my PMs may not have been getting through so I am making this my third posting to qualify. Whoops!
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For those of you who might be interested, I have now finished writing the book about the Waterlow family and printing firm. I am hoping thjat will be going to print sometime early in the new year and will let you know details as soon as I have them.
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Hello,
My husband worked at Waterlows in London between 1961 and 1968 as a lithographic printer in the cheque printing department ,the address on his reference is "Waterlow House" Worship St EC2,Bishopgate
Cheers Janette
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Excellent! He should have known my father then. He was called 'Mr Rupert' by most people in the firm and was, I believe, in charge of the cheque side of the firm.
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Hi,
My Grand Father x 2 also worked at Waterlows like his 2 sons. They all came from Shoreditch where i believe some of the Waterlows did. I must say that the young guy looks very similiar to my grandfather. He started out as a printer becoming a printers overseer.
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Hi,
My Grand Father x 2 also worked at Waterlows like his 2 sons. They all came from Shoreditch where i believe some of the Waterlows did. I must say that the young guy looks very similiar to my grandfather. He started out as a printer becoming a printers overseer.
What i forgot to add was that the young guy in the suit by the van looks a bit like my grandfather.
Any ways his name was William Taylor, his son William Henry and Charles
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ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
]Wonderful photos all!
I don't know if I am allowed to mention this, but earlier in this thread I mentioned that I was writing a book about the Waterlow family and Waterlow & Sons. Well, Plummiegirl already knows about this for a couple of special reasons (many thanks again!), but the book is being published on 1 August 2013. If you would like to know more then please get in touch.[/color]
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ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
]Wonderful photos all!
I don't know if I am allowed to mention this, but earlier in this thread I mentioned that I was writing a book about the Waterlow family and Waterlow & Sons. Well, Plummiegirl already knows about this for a couple of special reasons (many thanks again!), but the book is being published on 1 August 2013. If you would like to know more then please get in touch.[/color]
I worked as a clerk in the offices of Waterlow & Sons at Dunstable in 1956-7. Unfortunately I have no photos, but I remember that an old railway line entered the back of the factory grounds and the was the remains of an old stationary steam engine situated outside the old part of the building that were used for printing carbon paper. So the Dunstable site was built in the 1800's. All gone now I suppose.
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Well I thought it was about time I revisited this forum as once again my grandfather's wandS books have resurfaced! I'm afraid I never got the chance to even start reading them let alone looking for photos or references to people. There are 14 books each with a minimum of 250 pages :o
If anyone is still interested (or even remembers me posting on here a couple of years ago), if you can give me a specific year between 1940 and 1960 and any other relevant info I will sit/lay down and have a good read. It may take some time though - each one contains everything from gala dinners to christmas dinners and birthday bashes, summer trips, day trips, every conceivable sports awards, matches and league tables, retirements and new starters, competitions, quizzes and puzzles, photos and a whole host more - in fact more information than I've ever seen crammed into one year book!
Please email me at (*) if you have any requests and I'll do my best for you.
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Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Well I thought it was about time I revisited this forum as once again my grandfather's wandS books have resurfaced! I'm afraid I never got the chance to even start reading them let alone looking for photos or references to people. There are 14 books each with a minimum of 250 pages :o
If anyone is still interested (or even remembers me posting on here a couple of years ago), if you can give me a specific year between 1940 and 1960 and any other relevant info I will sit/lay down and have a good read. It may take some time though - each one contains everything from gala dinners to christmas dinners and birthday bashes, summer trips, day trips, every conceivable sports awards, matches and league tables, retirements and new starters, competitions, quizzes and puzzles, photos and a whole host more - in fact more information than I've ever seen crammed into one year book!
Please email me at (*) if you have any requests and I'll do my best for you.
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Hello p6steve:
please look for Ernest Edward Dickenson who died c 1958; if you have any information on him in the 1958 book, please tell me.
thanks in advance for the help
cNA
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I am looking for family of Mr. B. Savinson, who was letter engraver at Waterlow & Sons Ltd.,
Mr Savinson worked there in the year 1958, but do not know when he retired.
cNA
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I am looking for the family of George R Fairweather, the head engraver at Waterlow; born Dundee, Scotland 1875; retired in 1946, but came back out of retirement in 1950 to work again at Waterlow;
cNA
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I am looking for the family of Richard Loxley, engraver at Waterlow; born at Yorkshire, year of birth/death not known; would have worked at Waterlow between 1925-1939.
cNA
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Hi, Just seen the posts about Waterlows the printers. My grandfather Frank Alfred Parish worked for the company, I think as a Clerk but know he was a good artist - I have a lot of his drawings now. He retired when he was 80 and died soon after in 1958. Do not know when he started. I believe his younger brother Frederick worked there as well for a while but he went to Canada in 1907. Anyone know if there are personnel records still in existence. Many thanks.
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Hi, Just seen the posts about Waterlows the printers. My grandfather Frank Alfred Parish worked for the company, I think as a Clerk but know he was a good artist - I have a lot of his drawings now. He retired when he was 80 and died soon after in 1958. Do not know when he started. I believe his younger brother Frederick worked there as well for a while but he went to Canada in 1907. Anyone know if there are personnel records still in existence. Many thanks.
I had tried in 1987 to get to the personnel records of the company; all I heard was the records did not survive; I asked for the company that handled the pension of the former employees; no joy there either; this forum is a great place to gather surviving memory and the people who can give us leads.
cNA
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I am looking for family of Mr. B. Savinson, who was letter engraver at Waterlow & Sons Ltd.,
Mr Savinson worked there in the year 1958, but do not know when he retired.
cNA
I have now traced the family of Mr. Savinson.
Thanks
cNA
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When they relocated to Dunstable, I believe all the old personnel records were just chucked out.
It is such a shame. I had as you know from my original post 2 members of my family (possibly a 3rd) who worked in the garage at the back of Liverpool St. station.
If the records had survived I would have been able to confirm my step-grandfather as a 3rd family member working there.
Oh well, they did not know all these years later all us Family Historians would be so hungry for even the smallest bit of info.
Happy Hunting ;D
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Hello -
I am new to this web site. I am a specialist in collecting the work of the British printing firms of Waterlow & Sons and Waterlow Brothers & Layton. I have also been researching these firms for the past 25 years and would welcome the opportunity to share my research with those who are interested. I have not limited my research to only stamps and banknotes but have researched the book and legal publishing, posters, train tickets and related products for use in railway travel, maps, pens, bonds/shares, travellers cheques/bank cheques, and many more items. I also own a number of catalogues together with company produced histories as well as information from the printing archives.
I am always interested in adding to both my knowledge and my collection, I welcome your communication.
Kind regards,
Mel Spinella
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Hello Mel,
Would love to hear about your research.
In the 80's we located my grandfather's cousin who remembered the Waterlows and said they were friends with her grandfather (my 2nd great grandfather) Henry Hansel Wilson. (One of the Waterlows apparently helped our cousin get her first job at a bank when she was young).
Henry Wilson was an engraver, and on the 1911 census his occupation is 'bank note engraver' so I have often wondered if he worked for the Waterlow firm.
Also, this book was in the possession of Henry's son Herbert (also an engraver):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/thebigpond/sets/72157627980560258/
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That is a fantastic salesman's sample book - I have several - some which include cheques/travellers cheques and others which include stamps. I also have some of the different catalogues that include samples. I would love to have the images for my research. Your Flicker account is setup to prevent downloading the images. Would you mind sending me the images at my email address? I can be reached at email address removed by moderator please use the private message function to exchange sensitive information. Please let me know what aspects of Waterlows you are most interested in and I will respond accordingly. There are so many topics - I am not sure where you would like me to begin.
Thanks again for sharing the photo-link. You made my week with that posting!
Warm regards,
Mel
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Thanks Mel,
I guess you will have to pm me your email address. I would love to know the story behind this book but I'm not sure I ever will. It was in possession of my grandfather's uncle Herbert Hansell Wilson, who was at least a third generation engraver. He moved to Canada in his 20s (some time between 1905-1911) and began his own engraving company there. The samples could be some of his own work. (Or his father's possibly - I understand he originally did letterhead work).
I would like to know more about the bank note engraving side of the business especially, since it seems to be this must be our link to the Waterlows.
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I will dig through my Waterlow material this weekend to see if I can find my list of engravers and see if I can shed any light. Gene Hessler lists in his book "The International Engravers Line", the following engravers for Waterlows: Bain, Harold J. Bard, Herbert Bourne, Harry Gilbert Carradine, Edward Dawson, Ernest Edward Dickenson, Edmund Dulac, George R. Fairweather, John Augustus Charles Harrison, Thomas Samuel Harrison, Charles Henry Jeens, Joseph Lawrence Keen, Richard Loxley and J Sanchez Toda. There are some great photos in the book and I will see if I can scan them over the next couple of days and post them. He also lists a Hugh Wilson as the engraver for the 1864 issues of the Clydesdale Banking Company in Scotland. Possibly a relation?
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Just reminiscing. After leaving London for Aspley Heath in 1955 I got a job in the offices of Waterlow & Sons, Dunstable. The approach was from Dunstable High St. along George St. at the end of which was the wide wrought iron gates with the 'sentry box 'to the left manned by a uniformed 'guard. Once inside those gates you had to have a damn good excuse for leaving during working hours. In front was a wide archway with the printing works to left and right and above was the 'office' Inside it looked like something from Dickens with rows of desks. I was one of about 60 or 70 clerks. Mr Wilkinson (who looked as if he should have retired) was the boss. That office 'Hall'stretched the full width of the printing sheds. Out the back was the original buildings from the 1800's which were now used for printing carbon paper. There was a tall chimney and an old stationary steam engine in the yard by the railway track. At lunch time we would walk across that track to Dunstable Down. I only worked there for a year leaving in 1956.
I have searched Google Earth and it seems that all traces of Waterlows has been obliterated and modern houses stand where once was a thriving printing works.. How times change
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It's fascinating reading all these stories behind Waterlow & Sons Company. I like collection promotional notes of this Company and learning how it used to operate or any stories about it. Especially those made by people working there.
It would be nice to see the Company Newsletter (wandS) loaded in Internet, maybe as PDF so that we all can learn more, but I know this is a big task requiring time. So I am just expressing it as a wish ;D
Thanks to all for sharing
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To Miss Tree
Beautiful sample book of Waterlow. I looked all your Flickr photos
Thank you :)
Fab
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To Steve,
Wish I could look through the Wands you have Steve! ;D
Fab
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Hello -
I am new to this web site. I am a specialist in collecting the work of the British printing firms of Waterlow & Sons and Waterlow Brothers & Layton. I have also been researching these firms for the past 25 years and would welcome the opportunity to share my research with those who are interested. I have not limited my research to only stamps and banknotes but have researched the book and legal publishing, posters, train tickets and related products for use in railway travel, maps, pens, bonds/shares, travellers cheques/bank cheques, and many more items. I also own a number of catalogues together with company produced histories as well as information from the printing archives.
I am always interested in adding to both my knowledge and my collection, I welcome your communication.
Kind regards,
Mel Spinella
Mel: Were you a memeber of the Waterlow Study Circle (now disbanded) in UK please?
cNA
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Yes - I was a member of the Waterlow Study Circle and wrote a number of articles for the journal. I also have a complete set of the journals in the event that there is an article you are seeking to research. It was a shame when the society disbanded. Although at that time, I was mostly consumed with raising my young daughter who is now headed off to university - so I will now have more time for Waterlows!
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Yes - I was a member of the Waterlow Study Circle and wrote a number of articles for the journal. I also have a complete set of the journals in the event that there is an article you are seeking to research. It was a shame when the society disbanded. Although at that time, I was mostly consumed with raising my young daughter who is now headed off to university - so I will now have more time for Waterlows!
Thanks Mel: I was also a member and have attended meetings at Christies Robson Lowe. I have met Ray Keech, Colin Fraser and several others;
I hope you have a full set of the WandS, the in house magazine; I have to dig out the copies of the WSC journals I have; my interest was in the 1937 Coronation issue of Southern Rhodesia; I will let you know which ones I have.
best
cNA
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Hello -
I envy the opportunities you had to exchange ideas with others in the WSC. The only member I had the pleasure of visiting with in person was the Rev David Hubbard. He helped me to complete my set of the WSC Journals. Do you ever hear from David?
I don't have any copies of WandS - I would very much like to obtain a complete set. Any help in finding a set is welcome. I have been working on my comprehensive catalogue of the works of Waterlow & Sons now for over 25 years. All information concerning the firm is received with great appreciation.
Warm regards,
Mel
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Hello -
........ I have been working on my comprehensive catalogue of the works of Waterlow & Sons now for over 25 years. All information concerning the firm is received with great appreciation.
Warm regards,
Mel
Mel: I have sent you a private message
cNA
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Thank for that I will be contacting them.
How is it that when I googled all I got was articles on stamps & ebay to buy stamps, but nothing about Luton.
I did know that they moved from London. I think they merged with another company at some time in the late 60's early 70's. And I think that is around the time the name of Waterlow & Sons may have been dropped.
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Hello Mel
Why I ask do I find these sites, long after they have been active !! Anyway to cut a long trail short - I have only just found that a great grand Uncle ( think I might be right) by the name of John Tillman born 1845 died 1896, was on the board of Directors for Waterlow Brothers & Layton from 1887, and wonder if you have anymore info on him, or also his son Walter John born 1875 died 1962.
John I know (when he had free time ) was a musical man and in fact served with the Tower Hamlets Volunteer Rifle Brigade as their Bandmaster for Twenty years.
Best
John.T
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Hello John,
Erm ... just wondering ... are you and Mel talking about the very same business? Seems that for several years there were two separate firms.
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Waterlow_Brothers_and_Layton (http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Waterlow_Brothers_and_Layton)
http://www.jaggers-heritage.com/resources/The%20Waterlow%20family%20illus.pdf (http://www.jaggers-heritage.com/resources/The%20Waterlow%20family%20illus.pdf)
Cheers,
Westoe
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Just thought that I would add my hapenny worth. One of my ancestors was mentioned in the London Evening Standard of 6 /4/1882 and being involved in a dispute with Waterlow & Sons (Ltd) over the use of unskilled labour.
Jackie
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Hello John -
I don't have any info right to hand but will do some research into my Waterlows corporate documents and company histories to see what I can find.
As to Waterlow Brothers & Layton (WBL) and Waterlow & Sons (WS) - there is a very interesting history of the two firms. I'm not sure if others on this thread are interested in a potted history. If so, please let me know and I will post it.
Warm regards,
Mel
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Hello Mel, Jackie, and my friend Westoe( and our Lass)
Yes it is for certain that he was with the Waterlow and Layton section, though before the split, he and his sister Lavinia ( who was it appears, worked in Binding & Velum work) had already been there for sometime.
If you have the time, Mel, would appreciate any info, as only knew about him from a 'one-liner' in Grand Aunty's book ( The Story of a Saxon Family ) and unfortunately all her papers and the family albums disappeared, even though the Executor was due to place them all with Exeter Archives !!
Best
John
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I transcribe letters for the International Bomber Command centre and have a large collection written by Peter Lamprey to his work colleagues at Park Royal. Lamprey signed up for the RAF and his letters detail his training, life in the RAF and his social life. He was a prolific writer and his letters are mischievous, funny and in parts sad.
He mentions several work colleagues at Park Royal including Harry Beecham, Jack Moloney, Harry Straw, Eddie Hunt, Bill Gunton, Bill Smith and Jack Denny.
I am hoping someone might know of Lamprey who was sadly killed in 1944 when his plane was shot down over Germany.
I would be grateful for any information please. Thank you
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Hi Angel
Should your post be attached to the topic on Waterlows or does it belong on its own on the Armed Forces boards?
Dawn
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Hello again Mel,
I am sure, by the number of Staff they employed and the length of time they were in Business, that there are a lot of people who would appreciate your Potted edition, which would help them understand that epoch more clearly.
Below is info on John Tillman as a director, but was he a member of the Stationers Guild, who did he serve his apprenticeship with and what was his speciality I wonder?
Directors. 1887.
Herbert Jameson Waterlow, Esq. Alderman 24, Birchin Lane London E.C.
Alfred Thomas Layton. Esq (Mayor of Croydon)
Walter Jameson Waterlow Esq. LLM
Mr Edward Tappenden 13 Sydenham Park S.E.
Mr John Tillman 58, Sumatra road W.Hampstead N.W.
Will join the board after allotment
Bankers Messrs. Gyln, Mills, Currie and Co. 67, Lombard Street London.
Best
John
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Hi All,
I don't have the expertise of Mel :) but I am in love with the material produced by the people working at Waterlow & Sons, especially related to the printing of banknotes.
I think this PDF document on W&S can be interesting for all of you to read: http://www.jaggers-heritage.com/resources/The%20Waterlow%20family%20illus.pdf
Best wishes
Fab
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I am researching the George V1 1939 and Elizabeth 11 1956 British Solomon Islands set of stamps and would love to know who the engravers of these stamps at Waterlow's were and something about their lives. Also about the engravers of the 1939 and 1956 Gilbert and Ellice Islands sets.
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iHave just found the posts on Waterlow & Sons I worked at the finsbury pant from 1951-1955 I joined straight from school my first job there was counting the waste sheets then became a taker off on the printing machine then finally became a feeder i can remember my minders names first one was a mister bunce then my last one was Mr Parmeter a very nice man , never called them by their first names in those days , forelady was a bit of an ogre (mrs Barker) but I thoroughly enjoyed my time there I then moved to Hyde in cheshire but couldnt get a placing at their factory , didnt do the same work as finsbury
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Hi there!
I just came across this post about Waterlows while researching an object which we have just acquired.
Apologies for it being OT, but Wolly, since you said you had worked there I wondered if you would be willing to look at a few pictures for us, with a view to identifying it. It has a Waterlow label on it.
Thanks,
Steve.
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Hi Steve will certainly help if I can wolly
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Thanks Wolly. Problem solved!
I owe you one.
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no worries
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There is a Facebook group called Wonders of Waterlows. https://www.facebook.com/groups/164442136968190/
There are lots of interesting photos!
I found this picture on it of the Waterlow shooting club 1936/37 season.
The caption reads:
Back row...
H. Braurigam, jnr...R. Thomson...A. Baker....N. Linford...R. Willey....J. Dickinson....J. Thompson
Front row...
W. Hoare....S. Wilkins.....G. Lonely....WG Thompson...H. Brautigam,snr...C. King
My father is the one on the left, front row.
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Hello Mel, Jackie, and my friend Westoe( and our Lass)
Yes it is for certain that he was with the Waterlow and Layton section, though before the split, he and his sister Lavinia ( who was it appears, worked in Binding & Velum work) had already been there for sometime.
If you have the time, Mel, would appreciate any info, as only knew about him from a 'one-liner' in Grand Aunty's book ( The Story of a Saxon Family ) and unfortunately all her papers and the family albums disappeared, even though the Executor was due to place them all with Exeter Archives !!
Best
John
John, my dear old friend and research buddy,
I've just found out tonight that you died 20th April 2018, not 10 days after I had to let Our Lass go. I thought that must have happened, but I had no way of finding out - no answers to PM's or emails, no activity here at RootsChat.
I miss you - your one-of-a-kind sense of humour, your tangential thinking, the little snippetts of everyday news about "__E__" your wife and your grown "daylilies", and all the help you've given me over the years. Big Smile: How would I "Ever!" have learned about "the Ralphie subplot" if you hadn't trawled the Michael Henley letters at NMM for me? And I gave you good info too, didn't I? The very last bit was the link to Waterlow. So here on the Waterlow thread, I put my "Good-bye my friend" into the ether. You've crossed the bar and you are out there somewhere. I'm glad to have known you.
Cheers,
Westoe
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Both my father & my great uncle worked in the Garage/Workshop for the above firm, which was somewhere round the back of Liverpool Street station. I think my step-granddad may also have worked there.
What I would like to know is where I can find the old records for this firm. I have googled but all I get is information about stamps (which they printed). I have been unable to find out where all the old company records are kept, do not think they are at LMA. Not too worried about this so much now.
Can anyone help or put me onto someone who may know about this. I also have in my possession 2 photos of all the workshop staff standing by a coach ready to go off on a beano. This would have been in the mid to late 1950's.
My father was Arthur Simpson (from London), my Uncle John Butler (from Ireland) & my step-grandfather Bill Sturdy (from Yorkshire). Yes I am a mongrel!! Also a girl I went to primary school whose surname was King, her father also worked here.
UPDATES: Yippee have finally uploaded 1 photo, uncle John (John Butler) is the man standing next to the supervisor in the suit. And now the 1 of the 2 others. They are almost identical so have only uploaded 1. My dad is the tall young chap in the middle of the back row.
Hi Plummiegirl,
My grandfather Thomas Bush Constable also worked at Waterlow in London. The first photo you have posted here is a cropped version of the one on the front of Chris Waterlow's book, isn't it? If so, then I can tell you that my grandfather is the man standing far right at the front of the van with the cap and glasses.
My mother says that this photo I am uploading also shows him with the same van. He is the man on the left of the picture, wearing a suit.
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For those of you who might be interested, I have now finished writing the book about the Waterlow family and printing firm. I am hoping thjat will be going to print sometime early in the new year and will let you know details as soon as I have them.
Hello Chris,
I have come across this forum very recently after my mother found an old photo of my grandfather at work (Waterlow in London) in my late grandmother's personal effects. His name is Thomas Bush Constable and I believe he is the man standing on the far right (as you look at it) of the photograph you have chosen for the front of your book.
I wonder perhaps whether you still have any copies of the book available, please? I know my mother would very much like to read more about it all. She is now 83 and my grandfather died in 1960.
Many thanks in advance,
Jackie Berry
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Hello
The topic "Waterloo and Sons" is interesting to me. I am a collector and researcher of the history of Armenian paper money. In 1919, Armenia ordered the printing of banknotes from this company. These were banknotes in denominations of 50, 100, 250 rubles with the date 1919. I do not know much about the printing of these banknotes. You will be very kind if you help me find answers to my questions. Question 1: Who is the engraver of Armenian banknotes? Question 2: Is the sample known?
Thanks for the answer.
Sincerely, Arkadiy
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I know this thread is old, but I have finally confirmed that my gg grandfather did indeed work for Waterlows as a banknote engraver, via the 1921 census :)
Wish I could find out more about his career with them but this was more than I had before.
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My grandfather Richard Henry Stephen Williams
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My grandfather seated on the left by the pillar.
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My grandfather at the back on the right looking every inch the supervisor he was 😁
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I worked at Waterlows Dunstable as a monotype keyboard operator on night for two weeks before giving my notice. It was all time study if you went to the toilet you had to work to cover the time. One night I had to set from an index of agents throughout the world in the language of that country. I defy any time and motion to work out a time for that. The following night I was asked if I left a job of my time docket, I replied the only thing I want is to leave at the end of the week which I did. Talk about class segregation they had a goods lift for the factory and a carpeted lift of the office staff. I found this degrading as a person I went to a grammar school with used the carpeted lift. Over the years I went on to Management is a very large publishing company as their group production manager. I was taken out and wined and dined by the management of Waterlows and I had great please of telling them what I thought of their Dickensian attitude. They were convinced this was the only way to operate. Now at the age of 82 I have just caught up with what happened to them and I am not surprised.