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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Kat-wil on Monday 08 March 10 03:50 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I'm looking for anyone who has a connection with the name Mansfield/Manfield (Robert or Charles) in the Tasmanian and Perth areas. Robert and Charles were both transported in 1850/51. Robert to Western Australia and Charles to Van Dieman's Land.
Thanks
Kathy
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Hi
These marriages are fronm WA.
MANSFIELD, ROBERT to CUNNINGHAM, CATHERINE in MIDDLE SWAN reg. 1089 year 1857
MANSFIELD, ROBERT T W to MATTHEWS, HARRIET H in PERTH reg. 4143 year 1876
Possibly both ( ???or neither) relate to your man.
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/W/wa_registry_indexes.aspx
Sue
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Hi Sue,
Yes, I saw those and I may be on to something as I ordered the cert and the name of the grooms father is the same, but no reference to being a convict or from UK, so still unsure.
Cheers
Kathy
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Hi
Was it the marriage to CATHERINE CUNNINGHAM that you ordered?
You will also have seen this no doubt.
DEATH
MANSFIELD, ROBERT PHILIP age 41. father ROBERT CUNNINGHAM mother CATHERINE WEST AUST reg. 2613 Year 1905
There is Death for a possible ROBERT on the indexes as well as one for CATHERINE MANSFIELD
As she outlived him, it is possible she informed on his death certificate and may have given correct information.
All this of course assuming he is the right man /right couple at all!!
Sue.
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This may help you in knowing what may be expected on certificates in WA
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
Sue
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Sue,
Thanks, I have seen that. Most frustrating because I wanted the marriage cert to give me a reference to being a convict, but no. Trying to find some way of connecting this Robert and the one I want. Thought if I found relatives they may be aware.
Cheers
Kathy
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That's helpful, Sue. That tells me that the death cert would stat place of birth, which would confirm.
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YEs,
Of course it depends on how informed the informant was and how truthfl the informant wished to be. ???
Do any of the given names of the many children to the couple give a clue to the parental names {which you have,but we do not} :D :D
sue
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yes, names William, Thomas, Mary, john are in the family too but are also popular names - but hoped to find more significant people from his past (charles, anthony were his cousins and co-convicts) - maybe he wanted to forget them.
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This appears to be your Robert MANSFIELD
Embarked Plymouth 21 July 1851 on the MINDEN and arrive Fremantle on 14 Oct 1851.
MANSFIELD Robert
Reg# 914 Term 7 years Age 18 [The age quoted seems to refer to the age of the convict when the passenger list was created.]
Trial place - Wells Date 27 03 1849
Criminal Offence -Larceny
Physical description - 5'2" Hair black, eyes hazel, face oval, complexion - swarthy, build stout.
The marriage in 1857 is possible as Robert would have completed his 7 year term. Hopefully the marriage certificate will have Robert's age at the time of marriage.
Cando
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http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y
Here you will find a number of items in WA newspapers which refer to ROBERT MANSFIELD.
I have not thoroughly browsed them in full, but there may be something which will "click"with you.
Perhaps you know his occupation before transportation ?
There are items about one by the name, road building.
There are many in the 1880's concerning a man by the name in trouble with police!!
You may like to look.
Sue
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Thanks cando - sadly the certificate does not state age - just that he is over 21.
Sue, you are right there are many articles on him, and yes, they do look like they are linked to him given some of the issues.
He came from quite a disfunctional family, from all of the information I have found so his early years would not have given him a good place to start from - quite sad really.
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Buried in the same grave at Karrakatta
MANSFIELD Catherine 86 years Died 19 Mar 1922 at Perth
Roman Catholic DB 0035
MANSFIELD Robert 91 years 21 March 1921 at Perth
Convict was 18 years of age in 1851 ie born c1833. The Robert buried at Karrakatta b. c1830.
Deaths
MANSFIELD Catherine
District Perth Reg#385 1922
MANSFIELD Robert
District Perth Reg#385 1921
Hopefully there may be some identifying information eg place of birth, on this death certificate.
Cando
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Cando - thats fantastic. Thanks!
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Hi,
I have just seen your request for info on Robert Mansfield,who was transported to The Swan River Colony in 1857.
I am his great grandson and do have some information on his life here if you would like to get in touch.
Regards,
Bernie
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I just noticed I put 1857 I meant 1851.
Regards
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Hi Bernie,
Thanks for getting in touch - it´s been a few years since I´ve looked at this. Robert is my 1st cousin 5 x removed - so a distant relative. Charles Manfield who was sentenced too was my great-great uncle. I can send you a message with my email address if you are willing to share information. My great-great grandmother on my mum´s side was a Manfield.
Cheers
Kathy
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Hi
My name is Robert Philip and i am the Great Grandson of Robert Philip Mansfield who married Catherine Cunningham, i may be of some assistance albeit a bit late in your research, having started the journey of ancestors a half year ago.
i do have quite a bit of information on the Mansfields, marriages to Horrigans and DeMamiels if that helps. Oh yes, have beenn restoring the gravesites of all the above.
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Hello Philip,
I am also a great grandson of Robert and Catherine Mansfield.
There were two Robert Mansfields in WA at the same time,one(not our
great grandfather)was involved in a murder with his brother and cousins in the UK.
There are references to trouble with the police in WA by the same man.
You mentioned the Horrigans and the DeMamiels,names which I remember from my childhood,
so we are talking about the same couple.
I would be interested in any information you may be willing to share. Thanks,Bernie
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Hi Bernie
My first attempt was not so successful at replying the PDF was to large.
Yes I am Robert Philip Horrigan so named after great grandy Mansfield, my grandmother was Priscilla Josephine Mansfield who married Michael John Horrigan.
I see you already have quite a bit on Robert, and for myself i have a large database on the family and extended family created in the Complete Genealogy Builder. The file i tried to send is a potted history of the Horrigans.
i think i found a work around
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Hello Philip,
I believe there is a mistake in the email address you have given.
Would you kindly have a look and re send it.
Thanks,Bernie
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Hi both,
Now that you have made three posts, you should be able to access the Private Message facilities.
Welcome !
You can find the PM system easily, just look under each other's avatar, and hover over the symbols ... the scroll is the one you need. Click on it. :) and let your fingers do your talking.
Cheers, JM
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a case of more speed less Haste, sorry Bernie
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Hello,
I've just seen this thread from a while back.
My records show that Robert Manfield (no 's') from Nailsea, b 1833 admission to Wilton Gaol 31 Mar 1849 age 16, died in Somerset (Chard) in 1890 and was never transported to Australia.
He is therefore not the Robert Mansfield also from Somerset, but from Chedder, who was transported to Fremantle in 1851 aboard the Minden as one of the 30 Parkhurst Boys who had been at the Parkhurst Reformatory.
I hope this helps.
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Our records show Robert Mansfield married to Catherine Cunningham in WA was from Chedder, his mother Jane first died and then his father William. He had a step mother Hannah with children to support.
I hope this helps.
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Robert Manfield from Nailsea was admitted to Wilton Gaol on 31 Mar 1849 having been sentenced on 27 Mar 1849. A Robert Manfield died in Chard district in 1890 registration details Jun 1890 Chard 5c289. Chard is a registration district which covers a number of parishes including Stocklinch, Somerset. Look at the Stocklinch burial register there is a Robert Mansfield buried on 16 June 1890 age 57. It often happens that an ‘s’ is or is not included in the surname for the same person. So how do we establish his place of birth. The census before 1890 was in 1881 and there is Robert Mansfield living with wife Jane at Stocklinch age 47. This Robert was born at Luppitt in Devon just 15 miles from Stocklinch. The 1891 census shows Jane as a widow, so the Robert Man(s)field who died in 1890 is not the Robert Manfield from Nailsea.
The Robert Mansfield from Cheddar was baptised on 26 Dec 1828 parents William and Jane. The Robert Mansfield transported to Freemantle was born in 1833 according to the Freemantle record and so could not be the same Robert Mansfield born in Cheddar. There is a burial record for a Robert Mansfield aged 14 at Cannington, 16 miles from Cheddar on 10 Feb 1843, so this likely to be the Robert from Cheddar.
Robert Mansfield arrived in Australia on 14 Oct 1851. His Freemantle record shows he was sentenced on 27 March 1849 the same date that Robert Manfield was sentenced. There was a 2 year delay before Robert was sent to Australia and Robert served 5 more years in Australia to complete his sentence. The Robert Manfield from Nailsea and the Robert Mansfield that arrived in Australia are the same person.