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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Plumbob on Monday 08 March 10 14:14 GMT (UK)
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Hi I'm hoping someone can help me obtain birth and death info for the Brown Family in Quernmoor Methodist Chapel cemetery, I have reference numbers but don't know how to obtain the information ,
Ref are ; QM 8022931 Brown Henry of Parbold,
QM 8022932 John husband of Margaret Brown of Sunny side.
QM 8022932 Margaret Brown widow of the late John.
OM 8022931 Margaret Brown wife of Henry.
Cheers
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Hi there,
I'll be going in to Lancaster Library probably Thursday, so I'll see what's in there. They will (almost) certainly have a paper copy of the index you've referred to, there might be more details on paper. I see the Family Histopry & Heraldry Soc say this listing is not published yet though, so info might be limited.
Have you a rough idea of when the deaths took place?
:) Barbara
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Hi Barbara
I have no info on dates other than John Brown born c 1834 in Slaidburn Lan Source FHL film 1342021 pro ref RG11/427 /66/3:
1881 Census shows He was living in Nar Lodge Quernmore Lan
John Brown M 46 M
Margaret Brown M 44 F Dent YKS
Sarah M Brown U 15 F Bentham YKS Daur
Thomas E Brown 13 M Bentham YKS
Henry Brown 11 M Bentham YKS
John Brown 7 M Austwick YKS
Margaret Brown 5 F Austwick YKS
I found the grave on the L&M FH Heraldry Society Quernmore Methodist Chapel ,names and locations look good but it's a long shot , I think you and I are going to become good friends , Im an old Lancaster Lad no longer living in the U K so I need a contact who visits the LFGH Library, when you next visit please take a look at Lancaster Guardian or the Gazette Im trying to verify that Private Richard Brown listed on the Crimea War Mamorial in Far Moor cemetery He died of cholera in camp befor Sebastopol 25th June 1855.age 31. My Richard Brown born bef 25th Dec 1823 in Dent YKS son of William Brown and Dorothy Parrington both born in Dent and interned in LFM cemetery Im looking for anything that will varify they are the same Richard's
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I'll see what I can do. I'm not actually a member of the family history group so I don't go to their collection, I use the general library. Since you were last here the city library has had a major refit and what used to be the children's library is now a community history section (basically the old reference library but more accessible :) )
They have all the newspapers, but I might have to do that in 2 visits. I'll check the graves first, in case William and Dorothy have a gravestone that mentions their Richard.
I'll let you know how I get on
:) Barbara
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Thanks Barbara
Im looking forward to see your findings and I'm also very grateful .
I noted that you have Threlfall in your list of names , my grandfathers brother Simon Brown married Ada Threlfall they lived in Lord St Morecambe , she was decendent od Robert Threlfall b Abt 1813 in Torrisholme d 1882 in Lancaster. are we related by any chance?
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Here are the transcriptions in the Quermore Methodist MI booklet at the library. Happily it does look like a good match for the family on the 1881:
Quernmore Methodist Chapel, Section B, Row 2
G6 "Henry Brown of Parbold, d. May 19th 1947 aged 77 years, also his wife Margaret died March 7th 1954 aged 80 years"
G7 "Margaret, widow of the late John Brown of Sunnyside, Dolphinholme, died March 3rd 1926 aged 91 years"
So Henry born c. 1870 and Margaret (widow of John) born c. 1835, which is what you wanted. However John Brown of Sunnyside does not appear to be in that cemetery, he is only mentioned as being Margaret's husband.
I couldn't see him in the listings for Quernmore C of E church, nor in the ones for Dolphinholme. There were these Browns in Dolphinholme St Marks churchyard (C of E) which I got in case they were of use:
Sec tion B, Row 5
G7 " David Brown died March 31st 1913 aged 91 years, also Ann his wife, died May 13th 1923, aged 78 years, also Joyce their daughter, died March 28th 1936 aged 56 years, also Mary Margaret their daughter, died june 29th 1960 aged 89 years."
G8 "David Brown died February 23rd 1960 aged 84 years, also Margaret his wife died July 19th 1960 aged 79 years"
Row 6
G8 "Henry Brown, husband, father and grandfather, died 5th December 2002 aged 81 years"
Advice of the librarian was to try the City Museum for info on Richard Brown and Crimea casualties before going through the neswpapers, in case someone else has already done it.
If that doesn't work I'll book a slot on the film readers next week.
:) Barbara
(Not the same Threlfall family, as mine were still in North Meols in the early 19th C)
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Thank you Barbara
It will take me a day or so to sort out who is who but Im sure it's good info and I will let you know asap.
Regarding Privare Richard Brown, I have been in contact with with a Peter Donnelly Curator of the Kings Own Military Museum in the Old Town Hall Lancaster He told me that they inclued information on the War Memorial on the website"However we know very little more about the soldiers who are listed"!! I have also sent a request to the 55th Foot Regimental Museum in Carlisle but with out sucsess , You and the newspapers seem to be my only hope, so yes please Befor you go I will let you know the Grave number for his mother and farther in LFM cemetery.
I forgot to say ,That's a nice looking Cat
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The cat stops me staying on rootschat too long... her and the kids need feeding every so often ;D
There is this piece about the memorial which helpfully gives some dates of newspaper articles
http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/server/show/conMemorial.42348/fromUkniwmSearch/1
Although these references will be about the memorial itself, not the casualties. But its a start! When you say Richard died 'before 25th June" do you mean sometime very close to that date? If so I'll just check the papers from end of June onwards.
:) Barbara
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Hi Barbara
Ther is a book called The Last Post and a CD that accompanies the book This is called Reveille, The only information it gives about Richard Brown is as follows:
Private Richard Brown
55th Foot (Westmorland)
Died of cholera in camp before Sebastopol , 25th June 1855 aged 31 years.
I would say the 25th June is the day he died , So look at the next two or three weeks, you could ask the librarian if she has any idea how long it would take for news to reach home from the camp.
The Book and CD were produced by Lancaster Military Heritage Group it's a survey of war memorials found in and around Lancaster and Morecambe and containes information on all 2700 men & women who are named on the memorials.
Cheers
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Hi Barbara , I really appreciate the information regarding the transcriptions from Quernmore Methodist MI Book , It is also very kind of you to take the time to assist me .
Although I can't place them on our tree at the moment, with the information I can try again to find Margaret on the census and also look for her marriage to John. It is quit possible that Brown was not her maiden name.
Re the Brown's you found in Dolphinholme they are not ours , David Brown was born in Orton Westmorland baptised 8 Sep 1822 son of Edmund Brown and Elizabeth ,Married Ann Law 1867 in Sedbergh.
Cheers
Plumbob
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Hi Plumbob,
Happy to say, I found a short piece about Richard Brown in the Lancaster Guardian. Also the librarian passed me your email address so I'll scan the printout and send it to you. However I'm replying here as well because
a) I have a new laptop and not sure it's talking to the printer yet, so might take a while to scan
b) I'm showing off because I found it ;D
Here it is in full as it's a touching piece and might interest others:
Lancaster Guardian, 4th July 1855, page 5:
"Wm. Brown, a sawyer employed by the Canal Company, received a letter a few days ago announcing the death, by cholera, on the 25th ult., of his son Richard, who enlisted in Lancaster into the 55th Regiment, a few years ago. the intelligence is communicated by Lance Sergeant William Spencer of the 55th, who feelingly alludes to his decease. He says 'On the evening he was taken ill I was taking a walk through the camp, and as soon as I came back I was very much surprised to hear that he was in the hospital, very bad with the cholera, as just before I left the tent I had spoken to him. Our regiment has lost a number of men lately by cholera. What with the war and sickness, us fellows has enough to do. One day last week we was expecting to have an engagement with the enemy, and your son was saying in the event of anything should happen to him, we should find your directions in his Testament. So you see what a curious place this is to be in, as we do not know our last minute... your son is entitled to a medal and some clasps, so you will have to apply to the War Office, for he was present all through the engagements, excepting at Balaklava,' etc"
:) Barbara
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Hi Barbara , "Eureka" Your a star ,thank you so much,
It was sad that he died from cholera aged 31 but at that time infection fighting agents had yet to be invented, it was almost 100 years before Fleming invented penicillin,mind you, during the crimean war Florence Nightingale was active nursing the military boys ,so who knows!
Just as a mater of fact we knew William was a sawyer during his days in Dent before moving
His family to lancaster firstly living in back Marton St and then St Thomas Square,
Cheers
Plumbob:)
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Hi again BarbaraH
Just wanted to share this reply I had about your find
From my cousin in NZ What an exciting find!!!! My farther was right then, I can now go with this information to my surviving Brown cusins and probe further ,Thank you so very much for this information.
Brett NZ.
and thanks again from me.
Plumbob.
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Hi Barbara,
I'm the cousin in New Zealand, and I am indeed very grateful for your kindness in looking up this report in the Lancaster Guardian for us. If you're interested, you can read about what little I knew about the Crimean War medals in the BROWN family in an article I wrote here:
http://photo-sleuth.blogspot.com/2009/09/jabez-brown-1843-1921-railway-clerk-of.html
As you can see, it's a mystery which is now a long way to being solved, and perhaps one day we will discover what happened to the medals themselves.
Regards and best wishes, Brett
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Hi Brett, what a great article that is, I'm so glad there was something in the Guardian to be found. :D
Old maps of Lancaster on Genuki shows a timber yard and a sawmill near the Lancaster addresses you have. Its not clear on the 1845 map but the 1890 one shows the timber yard right next to the canal.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Lancaster/ look at the North East map for 1890 - timber yard off Nelson Street with the Canal to the right.
I wonder if father William and son Jabez worked for the same company at one time as sawyer and clerk; local history book says that the Lancaster Canal Company were involved in the running of the local railway in its early days before the Midland took it over.
:) Barbara
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Thank you again, Barbara. The maps are very interesting, particularly when one compares them with current day aerial photos from Google Earth with reference back to the census records.
It is quite possible that Jabez Brown (1843-1921) started off working for the Canal Company, I suppose. I haven't quite got to the nub of that question yet, and perhaps never will, although as time goes on, more and more solutions do surface to questions that I never thought would be answered.
Regards, Brett