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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: dukewm on Friday 12 March 10 00:23 GMT (UK)
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Searching for vital records or any info to verify my DOWNING ancestors from Parish Ballyscullion, County Derry.
These DOWNING's lived in or near the townlands Castle Dawson, Bellaghy and a possible estate named Rowesgift.
I have alternate confirmation on Adam and John but hope to gain secondary sources.
I have nothing to confirm Clotworthy, William or James.
ANY info is much appreciated, even for siblings or spouses.
Here is what I know (or think I know):
Col. ADAM DOWNING, son of Henry, b. 18 MAR 1666 came to Ireland in 1690 in the army of King William of Orange and fought at the Battle of the Boyne.
He was granted a large tract of land by the King in County Derry for his distinguished service.
He died 17 MAY 1719 and is reportedly buried at Bellaghy.
m. Margaret Jackson 15 NOV 1696 and they had issue:
1. Henry b. 1697, d. 1712
2. JOHN b. 1700 (forward)
JOHN DOWNING, son of Adam, b. 16 APR 1700, died 3 SEP 1762
m. Margaret Rowe 10 JUN 1727 and they had issue:
1. CLOTWORTHY b. 1728 (forward)
2. Dawson b. 1739, d. 1808
3. John b. 1740, d. 1792
CLOTWORTHY DOWNING, son of John, b. 4 APR 1728, died 13 NOV 1801
m. Elizabeth Giffard 14 JUN 1753 and they had issue:
1. WILLIAM b. 1754 (forward)
2. John b. 1760, d. 1820
3. Giffard b. 1762, d. 1830
WILLIAM DOWNING, son of Clotworthy, b. 13 MAR 1754, died 10 APR 1803
m. Jane Colwell 5 AUG 1784 and they had issue:
1. William Colwell b. 1786, d. 1868
2. JAMES b. 1798 (forward)
There is a William Downing listed in Griffith's Valuation 1859 for the Parish of Maghera, who lived with Susanna Downing (his wife ?)
and could be the William Colwell Downing above mentioned.
JAMES DOWNING, son of William, b. 10 NOV 1798, died 14 FEB 1875
James emigrated to the United States, swearing at his Naturalization Petition Hearing that he arrived in New York on 8 OCT 1827
I could not find his name (or close spellings) on any free Passengers Lists and would hate to spend a lot on endless searching.
He settled in Philadelphia, PA and married Elizabeth Brown (Duff) on 20 OCT 1830
Elizabeth had come to America from Ireland with her first husband James Duff in 1815
He died in Philadelphia and Elizabeth died in Philadelphia on 15 JAN 1891
Their issue:
1. Robert William b, 22 JAN 1835, d. 3 MAR 1911
2. Jane Elizabeth b. 1837, d. 1839
Thank you and I welcome all replies,
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Nicholas Downing of Drummard in the parish of Maghera, Co Londonderry d 1699 m Mary?? His will dated 18th February 1698 (proved in the Perogative Court 10 July 1699) mentioned his wife Mary, Capt. Adam Downing, John Downing and George Downing, his nephew Daniel (this may be a surname) and his cousin Major Dobbin of Duneane.
This may take you back a bit further. I have more relating to the Downings which I will send through the PM system.
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Thank you cyclamen.
I have Nicholas b. abt 1627 in my Tree as son of Emanuel, with brothers George and Henry.
Henry had sons Adam, John, George and Daniel, making them all nephews.
However, my sources have some conflicts which may contain false info so anything you have going forward or back in time would be helpful.
Regards,
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Sorry to bother you cyclamen but I notice I need a minimum of 3 posts to activate my PM system and I am new here so this makes my 3rd post.
If you got an error message in a previous attempt, please resend and it should go through this time.
Many thanks and have a good day,
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James Downing (Downey) arrived on the Princess Charlotte from Liverpool 6 October 1827 Source: Passenger Lists of Vessels arriving in New York 1/6/1827-16/11/1827 Film 237, Roll 10, #687 National Archives Varick St., N.Y.
This is my direct line - let's talk
Tia
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Searching for vital records or any info to verify my DOWNING ancestors from Parish Ballyscullion, County Derry.
These DOWNING's lived in or near the townlands Castle Dawson, Bellaghy and a possible estate named Rowesgift.
I have alternate confirmation on Adam and John but hope to gain secondary sources.
I have nothing to confirm Clotworthy, William or James.
ANY info is much appreciated, even for siblings or spouses.
Here is what I know (or think I know):
Col. ADAM DOWNING, son of Henry, b. 18 MAR 1666 came to Ireland in 1690 in the army of King William of Orange and fought at the Battle of the Boyne.
He was granted a large tract of land by the King in County Derry for his distinguished service.
He died 17 MAY 1719 and is reportedly buried at Bellaghy.
m. Margaret Jackson 15 NOV 1696 and they had issue:
1. Henry b. 1697, d. 1712
2. JOHN b. 1700 (forward)
JOHN DOWNING, son of Adam, b. 16 APR 1700, died 3 SEP 1762
m. Margaret Rowe 10 JUN 1727 and they had issue:
1. CLOTWORTHY b. 1728 (forward)
2. Dawson b. 1739, d. 1808
3. John b. 1740, d. 1792
CLOTWORTHY DOWNING, son of John, b. 4 APR 1728, died 13 NOV 1801
m. Elizabeth Giffard 14 JUN 1753 and they had issue:
1. WILLIAM b. 1754 (forward)
2. John b. 1760, d. 1820
3. Giffard b. 1762, d. 1830
WILLIAM DOWNING, son of Clotworthy, b. 13 MAR 1754, died 10 APR 1803
m. Jane Colwell 5 AUG 1784 and they had issue:
1. William Colwell b. 1786, d. 1868
2. JAMES b. 1798 (forward)
There is a William Downing listed in Griffith's Valuation 1859 for the Parish of Maghera, who lived with Susanna Downing (his wife ?)
and could be the William Colwell Downing above mentioned.
JAMES DOWNING, son of William, b. 10 NOV 1798, died 14 FEB 1875
James emigrated to the United States, swearing at his Naturalization Petition Hearing that he arrived in New York on 8 OCT 1827
I could not find his name (or close spellings) on any free Passengers Lists and would hate to spend a lot on endless searching.
He settled in Philadelphia, PA and married Elizabeth Brown (Duff) on 20 OCT 1830
Elizabeth had come to America from Ireland with her first husband James Duff in 1815
He died in Philadelphia and Elizabeth died in Philadelphia on 15 JAN 1891
Their issue:
1. Robert William b, 22 JAN 1835, d. 3 MAR 1911
2. Jane Elizabeth b. 1837, d. 1839
Thank you and I welcome all replies,
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James Downing (Downey) arrived on the Princess Charlotte from Liverpool 6 October 1827 Source: Passenger Lists of Vessels arriving in New York 1/6/1827-16/11/1827 Film 237, Roll 10, #687 National Archives Varick St., N.Y.
This is my direct line - let's talk
Tia
We already have (this is Rick)
I've been researching these Irish "dudes" for the past few weeks and haven't found much other than some verifications on Adam and John, with mention of Clotworthy as a son of John.
I found that "file" you gave me that gives James' arrival data.
Have you laid eyes on the actual microfiche Passenger List ?
I ran across some interesting stuff on the ship "Princess Charlotte" and found that she sailed the following itinerary:
1. arrived in Australia 6 AUG 1827 w/ 91 female prisoners aboard
2. left Liverpool 25 AUG 1827 bound for Quebec
3. arrived Quebec 8 OCT 1827 (the very day James claimed he arrived in NY)
4. cleared to leave Quebec 6 NOV 1827 bound for Liverpool
5. arrived New Orleans 4 DEC 1827 w/ 14 passengers aboard
I'm suspecting that our James may have been either confused or deceitful and could have used an alias on occasion.
I wasn't able to "find" him on the 1830 Census (assuming he was in Phila by then, having married
Elizabeth in OCT of that year).
I did see James Duff (and household) listed in the 1820 Census, so evidently they may have arrived
in 1815 as stated in the Downing Book.
The REALLY tough one is William of County Derry.
I've got nothing on him.
The Irish Census is almost worthless and the Parish Records seem to be the place to dig (all for a fee).
Sure would like to see some confirmation from at least one source on the link between Clotworthy and James.
Pretty sure the William Downing mentioned in Griffith's is the brother of James, because it's the right time frame and Maghera is adjacent to the Parish of Ballyscullion.
maybe we can compare notes via eMail ?
Rick
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Yes, I have seen the record with James' arrival. The date works with his naturalization too. Downey and Downing were frequently interchangeable.
If William Downing was the one in Griffiths, he married a second time. According to the famous/infamous Downing book, his wife was Sarah Magee.
Speaking of the Downing book, beware, it is full of errors.
Which branch of the family do you hail from?
Tia
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I'm sorry but the sailing dates for the ship "Princess Charlotte" are not possible. She sailed from Woolwich, England 31st March 1827 and arrived in NSW, Australia 6th August 1827 - 128 days of sailing - which would mean it was impossible for her to sail out of Liverpool bound for Quebec on the 25th August 1827. [dates from Perth DPS Project - 'Convicts of Australia, NSW conict women on ships arriving from England and Ireland 1788-1828]
There was a brig named Charlotte which sailed from Liverpool 25th August 1827 and arrived in Quebec 8th Oct. 1827, but no passengers listed. I hope this is helpful. Jill.
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It's quite possible that there was more than one ship called 'Princess Charlotte' at the same time- one doing a Liverpool/Quebec run and the other back and forth Australia/England.
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I agree there was certainly more than one vessel named Prince Charlotte in the early to mid 1800's, possibly named after the eldest daughters of King George III, and IV. The Royal Navy launched one in 1825 and the Brocklebank family in 1815.
There was also the brig named Charlotte, carrying salt - shown in information from 'The Ships List - Ship arrivals at the port of Quebec 1827' at www.theshipslist.com/ships/Arrivals/1827 - arriving in Quebec 8th Oct. 1827 from Liverpool which is the same date given in the sailing itinerary for 'Princess Charlotte' numbered 1 to 5 in dukewm's email dated 25 March 10.
I believe the list 1 to 5 involves 2 vessel's as aghadowey has already put forward in this mornings email. I think the Australia/England run was made by 'Princess Charlotte' which also made the Liverpool/New York run arriving 6th Oct 1827 that James Downing [Downey] sailed on, and the Liverpool/Quebec run was made by the brig Charlotte the smaller vessel that carried no passengers, arriving in Quebec 8th Oct. 1827. Jill
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Hello, this is in reply to Cyclamen's email dated Friday 12 march 10.
Nicholas Downing of Drummard, will dated 18th Feb. 1698, named his nephew in his will as Daniel Downing.
In his will his nephew's are named as -
Adam Downing, main heir with his wife Mary, as long as she remained
unmarried.
John Downing. * [named as brother of Adam above]
George Downing* [ " " " " " " George still alive in 1716]
Daniel Downing - 'All tenants rights & profits in and to the townlands of
Moyagall he paying the yearly rent payable to the Lord
Viscount Masserene for the same.'
Abraham Downing - left £10.
Tobias Mulhollen - left £10.
Samuel Downing - left £5. [Adam's will names a brother Samuel]
Bernard Downing - left £5.
Nicholas Downing names a brother William quote - "... and to each of my brother William his children by his last wife Mary five pounds stg all which legacies I order to be paid in four years after my decease by my nephew Captain Adam Downing ...."
They are possibly young at the time of Nicholas's death.
Nicholas also left £10 to Sarah Downing the daughter of - quote " my beloved brother William."
Nephews John Downing* and George Downing* brothers of Captain Adam Downing. - If Adam failed to produce heirs then all that was given to Adam by Nicholas would be passed to John and if John failed to produce heirs all would be passed to George.
Nephews John Downing * and George Downing* were left £5 each but later in a codicil Nicholas Downing leaves them another £5 each.
Nicholas's wife Mary and nephew Adam were Executors and his cousin Major John Dobbin and Commandant James Biskby of Magherafelt were called overseers.
The will was signed in the presence of Jas Biskby and Downey Mulhollan.
Nicholas signed his name as 'Nich Downinge'.
Nicholas asked to be buried in the Church Island of Lockbegg, but I don't know if this was granted.
Cyclamen is it possible if you could please send me information you have on these Downings? It would be a help with my search for the father of Adam Downing. Thank you. Jill.
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As "Accra" and "Aghadowey" have explained, I agree that there were probably 2 separate ships of similar name that sailed the routes mentioned.
Thanks for the input.
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Hi Jill,
I will send a message using the P.M. system.
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As I have emailed information from Nicholas Downing's will I will now email information from Captain Adam Downing's will, nephew and heir to Nicholas Downing.
The will was found and copied before 1890 as the finding of the will is mentioned in a letter dated 6th Feb. 1890. At the end of the copied will an attempt has been made to copy Adam Downings signature and below the signature is drawn a small coat-of-arms - Downing impaling Adam's wife's father's arms, the drawing is too small but it looks as if Adam's wife's side of the shield is divided [l to r]
There is no date on the will but in Sir William Betham's notebook [National Archives ref. BET 1/17 entry 166] the date is given as 4th Jan. 1716. Proved 1721.
In his will he describes himself as being 'of Rocktown and of Ballymacragg'.
Those named in the will, in order, are -
Ann - wife [1 1/2 or money from farm in Rocktown]]
Mary - daughter [£10 after his death & £300 on her marriage if she
marry's with the consent of the family]
John - son under 21 [£300 plus the lands of Dromard]
Jackson - son " " [£300]
William - son " " [£300]
Adam - son " " [£300]
George - brother [£300 to be used for expenses while looking after
sons until they became 21 and to "put them out to
"apprenticeshipps".]
Elizabeth Ewing - daughter, widow of John Ewing, who married without Adam's
knowledge. At first no provisions were made for her
because of her marriage - but he gave her £10 per year
only to be paid to her or any persons she choose BUT not
into the hands of any husband.
Ann Ewing - grandaughter [£10]
Jane Downing - mother [40 shillings a year]
Henry* - son [see below]
Adam Downing - godson [and nephew] [£5]
Samuel Downing - brother [father of the Adam above]
Adam gave to his son Henry and I quote - "I give and devise all - but subject to the legacies and payments aforesaid - to my son Henry Downing."
The Right Hon. William Conolly of Dublin and Henry Arkwright of Galloway were trustees.
Adam appointed the following as joint executors -
The Rev. Simon Rowe his father-in-law.
George Downing his brother.
Henry Downing his son.
I hope this is helpful to some. Jill.
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Hello Jill,
Good stuff and most thankful for your replies.
Although many of the names in the Will are matches for my lineage, some discrepancies lead me to believe these may be 2 separate families, or (gasp), the authors of my family book may have "borrowed" a few names or mistakenly attached to my line.
I could send you some more of what I've got to crosscheck with your data, if you wish.
I did come across a Capt. Adam Downing in my searches who seems to be different from the Col. Adam Downing from my line who supposedly came to Ireland in the army of William of Orange and fought at the battle of the Boyne in JULY 1690 and later appointed Deputy Governor of County Derry.
regards,
Rick
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Hello Rick,
The 1st part of this email is in reply to yours dated Friday 12 March 2010. I can only give answers down to Clotworthy Downing son of John Downing, and I will attempt to keep in the order of your email. If you have BMD dates and I don't, I will say.
The Downings certainly owned a house and land which they named Rowesgift.
John Downing b.1700 d.1785 the son of Adam Downing was given the house by his father-in-law the Rev. Simon Rowe on his marriage to Simon's daughter Anne. The house stands just outside Bellaghy on the road to Castledawson. It no longer belongs to the Downings.
As you may know fire destroyed many archives in 1922 so research is a little tricky. But in the churchyard of St Tida's stands the Downing family vault in which are buried 9 members of the Downing family - from Adam in 1719 to John Downing Nesbitt in 1847. On 2 memorial stones on the vault sides their names, births, marriages, deaths and relationships to other Downings are etched.
Col. Adam Downing -
I have no day of month date for is birth. He was 23 years old during the Siege of Londonderry so I doubt he would have been a colonel. He could not have arrived in Ireland in 1690 as he was named on the list of those who held the city and who signed the letter dated 29 July 1689 to King William and Queen Mary.
Adam married Ann nee Jackson [Adam's will] I have no marriage date for them.
His 1st son was Henry, no birth date, but he couldn't have died in 1712 as he was named in Adams will.
His 2nd son was John b.1700, who became Adam's heir after Henry's death.
He had 3 more known sons - Jackson, William and Adam [Adam's will]. No daughters have come to light.
John Downing - son of Adam.
Born 1700, no day or month date. Died 1785 10 Nov. [Irish Newspaper deaths]
Married Anne nee Rowe, no date. Born 1711 died 1776 2 Feb, buried in vault.
Daughters - Margaret wife of Capt. James Hand. No BMD dates. Buried in vault.
Sarah wife of Charles Dawson . No BMD dates.
Jane no BMD dates.
Sons - Clotworthy born 1727 died 1812. Buried in vault. Married .
Rowe no BMD dates. Died aged 19 of smallpox according to family letter.
Dawson born 1739 died 1807. Buried in vault. Married twice.
John no BMD dates. Said to have served in the Seven Year War in
Germany. A deed for Rowesgift signed by John and his brother Dawson
dated 10 Oct. 1788 mentions 'John Downing & his present wife' so
because of the wording he possibly had more than one wife.
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In answer to your email dated 27 March 2010.
The names mentioned above are your ancestors. I have seen your family book online.
If you have referenced BMD dates for those I don't have I would be most interested please.
I would also like to know about the Captain Adam Downing you came across in you searches as opposed to Adam Downing who fought at the Seige of Londonderry and the Battle of the Boyne.
Hope the above is helpful. Jill.
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These are some notes I made many years ago re the Downing family. They came from T1065/35 a document in PRONI.
'Dawson Downing was the younger brother of my greatgrandfather Alexander Clotworthy DOWNING who was called after his two godfathers Lord Caledon and Lord Masserene. Dawson Downing married twice and Mrs Scott Robertson was his granddaughter from his first wife. She had a brother who had a son Col George Downing (Indian Army) and one daughter. Col George Downing left a widow and four daughters. No son.
Signed Mr or M or W?? E Savage- Armstrong Oct 20 1929'
Underneath this I have written see Belfast Newsletter of Oct 17th 1929 for Dawson Downing pedigree. (Family were connected to Rowesgift , Ballintoy)
The above would need checked.
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Hello Cyclamen,
Thank you for posting the information written by Marie E. Savage-Armstrong.
I'm afraid part of her information on Mrs Scott Robinson is incorrect.
Frances [Fanny] Scott Robinson nee Downing, married to James Scott Robinson, was the granddaughter of Dawson Downing by his 2nd wife Anne Boyd. Not his 1st wife Catherine Fullerton - who was the 1/2 sister of Anne Boyd.
She didn't have a daughter, she had a son called Ivan Scott Robinson born at Bray Co. Wicklow 26th Jan. 1881 and died 25th May 1915 from wounds he received at the landing of Gallipoli.
I don't know if Ivan married but I will add at the time of his death he was 34 years old and he was, quote, 'a Private 10th Batt. Australian Imperial Forces'.
Jill.
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Re the William Downing of the Griffiths Valuation:
William James Downing was baptised in the Chapel of the Woods, Lisnamorrow on June 20, 1836, son of George Downing and wife Susanna Watterson, living in Caraloon at the time.
I could find none of these other Downings in the church records from Magherafelt, Castledawson etc although there are a number of Downing, Downey and Dowling records.
ron Dale
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Ron,
It would be most helpful for all the Downing researchers in the Magherafelt, Castledawson area to know what Downing, Downey, Downinge or Downynges feature in church records there up until about 1870. If you could bear to post the names I am sure we would all be eternally grateful.
Tia
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This site has been rather quiet since spring so I thought I would shake you all loose by asking if anybody is aware of other burial plots with Downings? I have been told they exist in the Ballaghy area besides St. Tida's and there are so many people NOT in the St. Tida's vault that you would imagine SHOULD be.
Speak Up - Don't be shy!
Tia
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It is some time since new messages have been posted on the Downing family of Bellaghy, but hoping some of you may be able to help.
My ancestor was Elizabeth Downing, d/o Rev William Downing. She was born c1739 Co Derry, married John Graves a Royal Naval Lieut from Castledawson c1765 Dublin marriage licence, and died 20 Oct 1801 at Gravesend House, Antony, Cornwall.
John Graves died 26 Mar 1806 also at Gravesend aged 76. His will 22 Jul 1802, proved 28 Apr 1806.
All the above sourced from parish records for Antony at Truro, Cornwall.
I am anxious to trace the parentage of John Graves and the connection of Rev William Downing into the rest of the Downing family.
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There was a Reverend John Graves who was married in 1739 at the Magherafelt Church of Ireland to a Jane whose surname is missing from the record. I suspect that Reverend Graves and Reverend Downing provide the connection for which you seek. (Records of the Magherafelt Church of Ireland, PRONI MIC 1/1/1A)
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Attn: jpaclarke
"My ancestor was Elizabeth Downing, d/o Rev William Downing. She was born c1739 Co Derry, married John Graves a Royal Naval Lieut from Castledawson c1765 Dublin marriage licence, . . . "
Your post intrigues me. I have quite a bit on the Downings of Bellaghy and your mention of "Rev. William Downing" might be a piece of the puzzle we have been searching for.
Research has determined that Col. Adam Downing of Rocktown was the patriarch of the Downing vault at St. Tida's Church in Bellaghy.
From his Will, we know he had at least 5 sons and 2 daughters as follows: (if they were mentioned by birth order, Henry as Co-Executor)
1. Henry, b. 1695/6 ; bef. 1766
2. Mary
3. John Downing, b. 1700 ; d. 1785
4. Jackson
5. William, b. 1709/10 ; d. bef. 1752
6. Adam
7. Elizabeth
We also know that William entered Trinity College, Dublin 23 Jul 1728 at age 18.
He earned his B.A. in 1733 and was dead by 1752 when he is described as “late of County Londonderry”. Little else is known about him on my records.
Do you have anything further on his marriage and/or children ?
The timeline makes it possible that your ELIZABETH was a dau. of my WILLIAM.
You should also know, there was an apparent different branch of Downings centered around Dreenan. Rocktown is adjacent to Drummard, where Adam's Uncle Nicholas had his homestead, and Dreenan is just about 2 miles north off the A-42. There were a few William Downings of that branch as well.
Even if there is no connection, perhaps we should share notes.
Please reply,
Rick T.
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ronalddale100
Rev John Graves of Gravesend, Castledawson married Mrs Jane Hodgson (nee Hudson) on 19 Nov 1739 at St Swithin's, Magherafelt. He was born c1711 Castledawson, son of Samuel Graves and Jane Moore, died 6 Jan 1776 at Gravesend and buried at Magherafelt. Gravesend is now Castledawson golf club. Rev John Graves would appear to have been the minister of the private chapel of the Dawson family on the grounds of Moyola Park near Castledawson in the parish of Magherafelt. Not until 1874 was the new parish of Castledawson formed taking some townlands from Magherafelt and some from Ballyscullion (Bellaghy).
I did some 15 years ago go through the microfilm of Magherafelt but the copy was so poor that it was difficult to read. Looks I may have to try again in more detail. Rev John and Jane had 13 children, four of whom reached flag rank in the Royal Navy. I was only able to indentify one in the baptisms, John 6 Aug 1743.
I have also searched through the Biographical Index for Church of Ireland Clergy and neither Rev John Graves nor Rev William Downing are mentioned with correct dates.
Peter
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dukewm
Rick T
See my reply to ronalddale100 above.
I have photocopies of the entries for burials at Antony parish in Cornwall which read:-
Oct 20, 1801 Graves Elizabeth, daughter of the Revd William Downing of the County of Derry, Ireland, wife of John Graves, a Lieutenant in His Majesty's Navy - aged 62
Mar 26, 1806 Graves John, a superannuated Lieutenant in the Navy aged 76. Buried 29th
(this John is my 4x great grandfather)
The Index to Dublin Grant Books and Wills has an entry for John Graves and Elizabeth Downing - 1765 Marriage Licence.
It is no coincidence that the house in Castledawson where Rev John Graves lived, the house in parish of Antony Cornwall where Lieut John Graves and his wife Elizabeth lived and the title that Lord Graves elected to take was 'Gravesend'.
I have no further information on Rev William Downing, nor can I find him in the Biographical Index for Church of Ireland Clergy. The only Downing Will I have is for Henry of Rocktown and Dublin 1823 and I see that there is also one for Adam Gifford Downing at Kew. Are there any others elsewhere? Persons mentioned in Henry's Will clearly indicates that there is a connection to the Graves family. I have not yet been able to place this Henry in my Downing tree.
Do lets share notes. Peter
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Hi Peter,
I think we are "barking up the same tree" and just need to refine the connection.
Henry Downing, eldest son of Adam as shown in my last post of 31 May 16, was b. 1695/6 and died before 1766 (his Will was proved 1766).
The Henry you mention "of Rocktown and Dublin 1823", is certainly of the same family and must be a grandson of Adam (patriarch of the Rocktown estate). I would love to see a copy of his Will.
Adam Gifford was a great grandson of Adam, buried in the Downing vault at St. Tida's Church, Bellaghy, on 23 Feb 1847. He was born in 1784, the 3rd son of Rev. Alexander Clotworthy Downing and Tamison Nesbitt.
Alexander Clotworthy Downing was born 1734/5 (most likely 1735), eldest son of John Downing and Anne Rowe. Anne Rowe's father, Rev. Simon Rowe, was the Rector of St. Tida's Church.
My line (supposedly) runs up through John, Adam's 2nd son, and I have very little on Adam's other children. But I have a "broken link" in the generation that represents Adam's great grandchildren and we are trying to "prove" a WILLIAM Downing, born betw. 1754-1770. This missing WILLIAM supposedly had two sons, William and James. James is my Irish immigrant to Pennsylvania and his older brother William stayed in Ireland, perhaps becoming the "Linen Manufacturer" of Coagh, County Tyrone, listed in Slater's Directory 1846.
Information on people named in the Will of Henry Downing 1823 might provide clues to my puzzle.
I hope some of the data I have shown helps you out and if not, I have much more on the County Derry Downings.
regards,
Rick T
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Rick, I have been plugging through all the Rootschat messages, trying to piece together everyone's reported findings and have compared them to the Memoir written by or for Alexander George Fullerton (1808-1907). The memoir is almost completely fabricated prior to Adam Downing, but might be assumed to be relatively accurate thereafter. I have also picked up other bits from the string of Rootschat messages. The Rev. Alexander Clotworthy Downing(according to a Rootschat message b. 4 4 1728) (who I now read from a PRONI document took his names from his two godfathers Lords Caloden (Alexander) and Massereene (Clotworthy)) seems to have married twice, first to Thomasine Nesbitt and second on 14 6 1753 to Elizabeth Giffard (Rootschat message). By Thomasine he had two children John Nesbitt (1768-1847), who m. Jane Brady (1801-36) and Medici, who m. Admiral John Dawson (1760 - ?) (per the Memoir). According to the Rootschat message, he had three further children by Elizabeth Giffard, William (1754-1803), who m. Jane Colwell in 1784, John (1760-1820) and Giffard (1762 - 1830).
You suggest that Adam Gifford Downing (1784-1847) was a third son of Thomasine, yet his dates do not fit. He is much more likely to be a grandson of Elizabeth Giffard, perhaps a son of Giffard b. 1762.
I can provide more information from the Memoir on the children of Dawson Downing (Alexander George Fullerton's grandfather) if that would be helpful, and of the immediate descendants of John Nesbitt Downing and Medici Downing.
The Memoir (however suspect) mentions that Colonel Adam's son John remarried after the death of Anne Rowe in 1776. He married a Miss O'Neill, who was aged 16 and he was 79. There were no children! It also mentions three children of John and Anne Rowe, Alexander Clotworthy, Dawson and Henry / John (it is different in two places). John lived from 1740-1792 and Henry d. unm. in 1796. They may be two brothers, but both were officers in the army.
I hope this does not add to the confusion.
Robert
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Rick, I need to comment on on the second and third para. of yesterday's post of 18.17.The record I have from the Downing Mausoleum shows Adam Clifford Downing, Lt. Colonel of her Majesty's 81st Regiment ... youngest Son of Rev. Alexander Clotworthy Downing Date at death: 21/02/1847. I thus suggest that Alexander Clotworthy m. first Elizabeth Giffard on 14 6 1753 who must have died after 1762 and second Thomasine Nesbitt. If Adam Clifford (not Gifford) was born in 1784 he was sixteen years younger than his full brother, John Nesbitt Downing, when his father was 5 - a bit of an after thought, but biologically possible. Sorry, this is my mistake!
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Thanks Robert !
I do have a lot on the children of Alexander Clotworthy Downing (A.C.), and your comments on his Godfathers is new to me, so that's much appreciated.
As for his "first wife", Elizabeth Giffard, we have not found any proof of her existence or marriage to A.C. and it would be fantastic to verify her, but some of that info you cite matches the 1901 Downing book and may be erroneous. If you have ANY solid sources on that, we might just pop a champagne cork, because the 'William' you mention as A.C.'s eldest son by Elizabeth Giffard is my (supposed) 4th great grandfather (who we have NOT verified).
Without verification of William, we have been chasing alternate possibilities for years.
One other important note: A.C. entered Trinity College in Nov 1753 at age 18, meaning he was born in 1735 (or 1734 if his birthday was after Nov), NOT 1728, as the 1901 Downing book asserts.
The Downing book also claims that 'Clotworthy' Downing married Elizabeth Giffard on 14 Jun 1753 and gives the birth of William as 13 Mar 1754. For all of that to be true, we must believe William was married in June, barely 18 years old, entered Trinity in November, and had his first child almost exactly 9 months after the marriage and 4 months after starting his college studies. (certainly possible, but how probable was that ?)
I suppose the good news is that William Colwell Downing, author of the 1901 Downing book and my 2nd great uncle, likely got much of his information from his own father, who presumably would have known the names of his grandfather (William) and great grandfather (A.C.).
At some point R. Wilberforce would probably have provided the more distant ancestry, but I have to believe the authors' immediate upline would have been well known without hired researchers.
Penny is descended from Dawson and she is probably the expert on his line.
Please give me a little time to review everything methodically and I will post new comments on Rootschat.
cheers
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Hi Peter,
Just checking back on old topics and wanted to reconnect.
I have been working with a group of Downing researchers and have a proverbial "ton" of info you may be interested in. One of the group has started a Facebook page dedicated to the Downing Family of Bellaghy. You may be able to contribute some of your knowledge to the group as well.
Just give me a shout, or send me a message via Facebook (Rick Turner - self employed)
cheers, Rick
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AN ASSESSMENT OF THE DOWNING FAMILY IN CO. LONDONDERRY
The following report summarises the research done by several people on the complexities of the Downing family. It will overrun one page, but continues in sequence.
Piecing together a history of the Downing family both in England and in Ireland has proved fraught with difficulty. Although there are numerous historic records for this well-connected name, in almost every instance, they conflict. The process is made more complicated, because Downing was not an unusual name in either England or Ireland, making it difficult to establish which individuals belong to particular family lines. Tradition dictates that the family came from Devon as confirmed by the inscription at the family mausoleum at Bellaghy. Some of the early parts of the 19th century family trees which we hold show a descent from Devonshire, but the more certain ancestry of the Irish families that we have been researching is from East Anglia, where the family was well established by 1500.
There are several families named Downing in East Anglia and elsewhere in England, for which no verifiable link can be established, despite their similar but not identical coats of arms. Most of the confusion has been caused by generations of genealogists, trying to shoehorn them together. The Memoir provided by Alexander George Fullerton (his father had changed his name from Downing to Fullerton) is a good example of this problem.
The Norfolk family
The Norfolk family descends with certainty from Geoffrey Downing of St. Paul’s Belchamp in Essex, born on 24 March 1524, who married Elizabeth Wingfield on 8 October 1549 (although the marriage record date is suspect), the daughter of Thomas Wingfield of Great Dunham in Norfolk. There are Wingfield family trees which confirm Elizabeth’s descent from a galaxy of Norman knights including the Plantagenet kings. They were often employed as soldiers and diplomats around the Crown, and Elizabeth’s second cousin, Sir Richard Wingfield was the Queen’s Marshal in Ireland at the time of the battle of Kinsale in 1601. Their son Arthur was married at Belchamp St. Paul on 20 November 1570 to Susan Calybute of a family of wealthy farmers occupying land at Castle Acre in Norfolk. This resulted in Arthur living on a part of the estate at Lexham.
Arthur Downing had two sons by Susan Calybute, John Downing, born in about 1571, and Calybute Downing, born in about 1577, It is apparent that this John went to Ireland, possibly in the service of his kinsman, Sir Richard Wingfield. Calybute married another Elizabeth Wingfield (a remote kinswoman of his grandmother) and lived at Shenington in Oxfordshire. They had a son, The Rev. Calybute Downing, who graduated from Oxford University, and was an acolyte of Archbishop Laud, through whom he hoped to gain a prelacy. When Laud fell from grace before the execution of Charles I, the Rev. Calybute had to settle for becoming Rector of Hackney. He had a surviving son, Henry, amongst a number of daughters by his second wife, Margaret Brett. According to a record on Geni https://www.geni.com/people/Margaret-Brett/6000000011002715652?through=6000000011002715646, Henry changed his name to Brett. He was baptised on 14 November 1640 at Hackney, but we have no verifiable record that he married or had children.
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The Suffolk family
The earliest known ancestor of the Suffolk family was George Downing of Beccles, whose will is dated 15 December 1561. By his wife, Cicely, he had a large family, of whom George, the third son entered Queen’s College, Cambridge in 1569, and later became headmaster of the grammar school in Ipswich. According to a family tree for Downing of Gamlingay (the Baronetcy family - see below), he married a Miss Bellamy. (Although there is no other evidence to confirm that this was her maiden name, she was buried at St Lawrence, Ipswich in 1610.) George made a will on 17 January 1611, proved in Ipswich on 3 October 1611, mentioning his unmarried daughters, but he also had a son, Nathaniel Downing, whose will, dated 7 May 1616, refers to his brothers, Joseph, Joshua, and Emanuel (sic) in addition to other family members.
Emmanuel Downing, born on 12 August 1588 at Edwardstone near Ipswich, was an exceptional personality. He graduated from Cambridge University, qualified as a barrister at the Inner Temple in London and became a non-conformist preacher. He married twice, firstly in 1614 to Anne, daughter of Sir James Ware, the Secretary for Ireland, with whom he moved to live in Dublin. Following her death in 1620, he returned to England temporarily, where, in 1622, he remarried Lucy, the sister of John Winthrop, the founder of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, and its first Governor. He then returned with her to Ireland until 1625. There is a biography written by Frederick Johnson Simmons in 1958 based on Emmanuel’s and Lucy’s correspondence. In 1629, he was invited by his brother-in-law to join the Massachusetts Bay Colony, but deferred travelling to America until the education of his younger children was completed. Yet some of his elder children joined John Winthrop in America. It was not until October 1638 that Emmanuel and Lucy set out with the remainder of their voluminous family. He became a key member of the colony, advocating slavery as a means of resolving the shortage of labour, and suggesting that native Indians should be traded for black African slaves. He was one of the founders of Harvard University, and George Downing, his eldest son by Lucy, was the second student to graduate from there. In 1652, Emmanuel and Lucy returned with some of their family to England, where he was appointed Clerk to the Council of State of Scotland, but died in Edinburgh on 26 September 1660.
George Downing also returned to England, where he became a strong supporter of the Commonwealth, preaching to Cromwell’s troops during the Civil War and serving as a diplomat at The Hague. Yet, following Cromwell’s death, he became a moving force in seeking the restoration of the monarchy, and was well rewarded by Charles II, becoming a baronet on 1 July 1663 and Secretary to the Treasury. He soon became extreme wealthy, building Downing Street in London, and amassing the fortune, which ultimately founded Downing College, Cambridge. His change of allegiance did not improve his relationship with his former Parliamentarian colleagues.
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The conflicting family trees
Although the family trees provided by the Heralds in their visitations of Norfolk and Suffolk must have been available well before this, the record of Downing of Gamlingay (the country estate of Sir George Downing) does not appear to have been published in printed form until 1900, when it formed part of a collection of Suffolk Manorial Families edited by Joseph James Muskett of New England. The resultant family tree demonstrates that George Downing of Beccles, who died in 1564 could not have been born much after 1530. It follows that he could not have been descended from Geoffrey Downing, who was born in 1524, notwithstanding numerous records, which provide links at various levels to amalgamate the two families. As this family record is based on the Heralds’ visitations, the various wills already mentioned and Emmanuel’s and Lucy’s correspondence, it can be assumed with some assurance that it is accurate. Muskett makes the following note on the similarity of the armorial bearings and the complexity of linking the two groups:
The precise relationship between the Norfolk and Suffolk families, however, has not yet been ascertained, and has been the subject of much misconception and misstatement.
There were several early genealogical records published, but errors crept in, initially it would seem as a result of a biography of the Rev. Calybute Downing (of the Norfolk family), included in Athenae Oxoniensis Vol. III, pp. 105-108 written by Anthony à Wood in 1649. This avers, incorrectly, that he was the father of Sir George Downing (of the Suffolk family), the first baronet. It would seem that John Burke, in his Extinct Baronetage published in 1838, followed Wood in making the Rev. Calybute the father of Sir George. As he probably knew that Calybute had a son, Henry, he included him as a brother of Sir George. As explained above, this Henry seems to have changed his name to Brett. Burke then went further and claimed that Colonel Adam Downing of Bellaghy, the acknowledged ancestor of the Londonderry Downing family, was a son of this Henry Downing (or Brett). We have established no logical explanation for Burke to make this unlikely connection, but it has confused generations of later genealogists.
In 1891, Alexander George Fullerton, a great-great-grandson of Adam Downing, produced a ‘Memoir’ of his family emblazoned with quartered coats of arms to demonstrate his connection to the Downing baronetcy and his descent from Geoffrey Downing and Elizabeth Wingfield. He had married Lady Georgiana Leveson-Gower, the daughter of the 1st Earl Granville and grand-daughter of Lady Georgiana Spencer, Duchess of Devonshire. It is apparent that Granville did not altogether approve of his parvenu son-in-law, despite his considerable wealth, and Alexander, who was a mere Captain in the Horseguards needed to demonstrate his credentials. He looked no further than Burke to be able to show these connections and he produced a first version of his memoir which followed Burke. He included a short biography of each of the family members, and he fleshed out Henry Downing, Adam’s purported father, as follows:
We now revert to HENRY JOHN DOWNING Esq 2nd Son of the Reverend Calybute Downing and only brother of Sir George the 1st Baronet. He was an Officer in the Guards of Charles 2nd, a body of Troops of about 4000 men, horse and foot, commanded by the Duke of Albermarle, "consisting of Gentlemen of quality and Veteran soldiers excellently well clad and well mounted and ordered”, as Evelyn remarks, who saw them reviewed July 4 1663. He married Jane, daughter of [BLANK] and died circa 1698 leaving two sons, Adam and George, the latter had a son Adam who died S.P.
In reality, there is no evidence that Henry Downing (or Brett), the son of the Rev. Calybute Downing, married or had children. There is no record of him visiting Ireland and he is not mentioned in regimental records of the Horseguards. Also, there is no further evidence that Adam had a brother, George, with a son Adam, who died S. P.
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Shortly after this, the 1698 will of Nicholas Downing of Drumard near Bellaghy must have come to light. Nicholas had no children of his own but he named a brother William, and a range of nephews and nieces including Adam Downing of Rocktown near Bellaghy. He does not name Adam’s father, who had predeceased him, but Adam made a will dated 1716, in which he named his mother as ‘Jane’, and a number of siblings including a brother Samuel. From the two wills, it is apparent that the Downing family had been well established around Bellaghy for some time. Furthermore, the Rev. Calybute Downing had not included sons Nicholas or William among the meticulous parish records that he maintained. Alexander George Fullerton needed to think again. Yet the seal on Nicholas’s will carries the arms of the Rev. Calybute’s family, the Downings of Norfolk.
At about the same time, John David Downing, the last member of the Downing family to live at Rowesgift, where the family records were stored, produced, quite independently, his own version of the Downing tree, having seen Nicholas’s will. He came up with a theory that Nicholas was the son of Emmanuel Downing and Lucy Winthrop. This made him a brother of Sir George Downing the first baronet. Adam was thus deemed to be a grandson of Emmanuel and Lucy. To complete the link, he named Adam’s parents as Major John Downing and Jane Clotworthy. These names appear to be completely spurious. There is no record in Emmanuel’s copious correspondence that he had a son Nicholas, and although he had a son John, this John was born at Salem in Massachusetts and probably never visited Britain and Ireland, becoming a merchant in Nevis, WI, before marrying on his return to Boston. As Adam had a grandson, Alexander Clotworthy Downing, it is reasonable to assume that John David Downing borrowed the Clotworthy name as a plausible maiden name for Adam’s mother, but it has now been established that Alexander Clotworthy was named after his godfather, Clotworthy Skeffington, and no suitably aged daughter Jane has been found among the records of the Clotworthy family in Ireland.
At some point before 1893, Alexander George and his genealogist produced a second version of their Memoir in the light of seeing Nicholas’s will, but they may not have seen (or they ignored) the tree produced by John David Downing. They now claimed that Adam was a descendant of Lt. John Downing, who fought at the battle of Kinsale. Their tree averred that this John was the son of Arthur of Lexham. He is shown with a wife ‘Margaret’ and a son, George, who assisted the head tenant of the Fishmongers’ proportion at Ballykelly and leased 3,000 acres. George, in turn, is shown with two sons, Nicholas (from the will) and George, the Comptroller of Customs for Londonderry, who, so they claimed, married Jane, daughter of ‘Hugh Montgomery of Ballygowan’, becoming the parents of Adam Downing. As Alexander George Fullerton never lived in Ireland, where he might have been able to research these new connections, his conclusions may have seemed a bit controversial. Yet his genealogist will have had access to the Dublin Public Records Office, which was destroyed in the troubles in 1922.
Our researches suggest that much of the ancestry shown in the second version of the Memoir is plausible. We know that Sir Richard Wingfield was a kinsman of John Downing the son of Arthur, and it is reasonable to assume that he took him under his wing at Kinsale and later in Londonderry. Burke’s Royal Pedigrees of England provide a family tree that includes some of Lt. John Downing’s children. In a footnote, it states that the Downings claim descent through the Wingfields from Henry III, so they seem to be of the Norfolk family. We have found leases signed by George at Ballykelly between 1618 and 1659, and he was later buried at the Island Church on Lough Beg near Bellaghy as was Nicholas. Although there was no Hugh Montgomery of ‘Ballygowan’, a Hugh Montgomery of Gransheogh lived near Bellaghy with ‘several daughters who he married well’. He also had a grandson William Montgomery who borrowed £800, a substantial sum, from Adam, apparently his uncle by marriage.
Not everything in the second version of the Memoir is correct. It still shows Sir George Downing as a son of the Rev. Calybute Downing, thereby incorrectly claiming the Downing Baronetcy for the Norfolk Downing family. It also shows the Rev. Calybute with a son Henry, but this time without issue. It names the wife of George of Ballykelly as Dorcas Blois, who is a member of a family in Spexhall, Suffolk, married to an unconnected George Downing, who is well documented and had no children. Yet in other respects the genealogy seems realistic, notwithstanding that we have not established its sources.
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In 1901, William Colwell Downing and a professional genealogist from Philadelphia, R. Wilberforce, produced a Downing family history, which was well received and there is a copy in the Library of Congress in Washington DC. The principal objective was to link William Colwell of a well-to-do family in Pennsylvania to the Downing family in Ireland as descendants of Alexander Clotworthy Downing. Closer investigation shows that it is full of flaws; and it conflicts with the Downing of Gamlingay pedigree mentioned above. It is probable that they had access to the family tree provided by John David Downing at Rowesgift as they name Adam’s mother as Jane Clotworthy, but they revert to Burke by naming Adam’s father as Henry, but adding in a brother Nicholas. In an apparent effort to overcome the difficulty that the Rev. Calybute did not have sons, Nicholas or William, they make them the sons of Emmanuel of the Suffolk family, who is included as a brother of the Rev. Calybute Downing. Yet, as explained above, they cannot be the sons of Emmanuel and Lucy.
It is also apparent that W. C. Downing and R. Wilberforce had seen the first version of Alexander George’s Memoir, as they copy its description of Henry as an officer of the guard of Charles II almost word for word. They present Adam as a hero of the siege of Londonderry, being granted land at Bellaghy by a grateful William III for his conspicuous gallantry. Contemporary histories confirm that Adam was present at the siege, but there is no mention of any great heroism on his part, and no record that he was at the Battle of the Boyne, except for the inscription on his mausoleum, which records that he showed “signal proof of his courage at the battle”. Furthermore, the land at Bellaghy was a leasehold from the Vintners’ Company and was not within the giving of a grateful King. It is apparent that evidence of Adam’s courage in the Williamite wars is based on several 19th century ballads published by the Orange Order to promote the valour of the ancestors of their members, who included the Downings. W. C. Downing’s and Wilberforce’s history has added confusion to those who have seen it, including myself!
In 1975, Sheelagh Elizabeth Church née Downing who was a descendant of Samuel Downing, a brother of Adam, lodged a pedigree with the College of Arms to demonstrate her entitlement to use to arms of Nicholas Downing recorded on his 1698 will. She made no attempt to extend the pedigree back further, but the College of Arms confirmed to her that Nicholas’s arms were those of the Norfolk Downing family even though they have no record of his pedigree. Bizarrely, Sheelagh Elizabeth named the parents of Samuel and Adam as Richard Downing and Jane Booth. The College of Arms say that she will have needed to provide evidence of this to allow the College of Arms to accept them, but are unable to confirm what this was. We have been unable to find any record of a Richard Downing and Jane Booth elsewhere, and Booth is not used as a given name elsewhere in the Bellaghy family.
Evidence to link Adam Downing to Arthur Downing of Lexham
It has been explained above that Alexander George identified Lt. John Downing, who arrived in Ireland prior to the Battle of Kinsale, as the son of Arthur Downing of Lexham. This is corroborated in a footnote in Burke’s Royal Pedigrees of England, which states that Lt. John Downing’s descendants in co. Cork claim descent through the Wingfields from Henry III. Apart from this, the only tenuous evidence is the knowledge that Sir Richard Wingfield, the Queen’s Marshal in Ireland, was Lt. John’s grandmother’s second cousin. Perhaps he took a young kinsman under his wing. We also know that Sir Richard came to Derry in 1608 to put down O’Doherty’s rebellion, so it is plausible that Lieutenant John received rights to land there in lieu of pay. We have nothing to confirm Alexander George’s assertion that John married a Margaret and had a son George. Yet, a George Downing is recorded in a Muster of Londonderry in 1628 and was a tenant on the Fishmonger’s proportion with leases mentioning him there up to 1659. We have found no record of his marriage, or of him having children and no evidence of his purported son, George Downing, mentioned in the Memoir as the Comptroller of Customs, or of his wife, Jane, daughter of Hugh Montgomery of Ballygowan (now thought to be Hugh Montgomery of Gransheogh, who acquired lands at Maghera, near Bellaghy). Accepting the genealogy by this route requires a leap of faith.
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The impact of our findings
In summary, we have found evidence that Adam Downing was the son of Henry Downing (or Brett) by a wife Jane, of Major John Downing by Jane Clotworthy, of George Downing by Jane Montgomery, of Henry Downing by Jane Clotworthy and of Richard Downing by Jane Booth. My personal preference is to follow Alexander George Fullerton’s Memoir notwithstanding its shortcomings. There is at least some plausible evidence, however tenuous, that his parents were George Downing and Jane Montgomery. The Memoir is the only record which we have found which follows this route, and, in the absence of the Dublin Public Records Office, we have not been able to find what they seem to have established. Sadly, they appear to have left no notes.
Unfortunately for Alexander George, his magnificent coat of arms have quartered the Brett armorials with his own. As he was now contending that he was not descended from the Rev. Calybute Downing and Margaret Brett, he must have known that his arms were wrong!
If we accept the hypothesis that Arthur Downing of Lexham is the ancestor of Colonel Adam Downing, it means that the Irish Downings are descendants of the Norfolk rather than the Suffolk families. As there is no known connection between the two groups, it means that the Irish Downings are not related to Emmanuel Downing, Sir George Downing and his baronetcy, to Downing Street or to Downing College, Cambridge. This causes a significant change to our previous assumptions.
It remains a balance of probabilities.
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ronalddale100
Rev John Graves of Gravesend, Castledawson married Mrs Jane Hodgson (nee Hudson) on 19 Nov 1739 at St Swithin's, Magherafelt. He was born c1711 Castledawson, son of Samuel Graves and Jane Moore, died 6 Jan 1776 at Gravesend and buried at Magherafelt. Gravesend is now Castledawson golf club. Rev John Graves would appear to have been the minister of the private chapel of the Dawson family on the grounds of Moyola Park near Castledawson in the parish of Magherafelt. Not until 1874 was the new parish of Castledawson formed taking some townlands from Magherafelt and some from Ballyscullion (Bellaghy).
I did some 15 years ago go through the microfilm of Magherafelt but the copy was so poor that it was difficult to read. Looks I may have to try again in more detail. Rev John and Jane had 13 children, four of whom reached flag rank in the Royal Navy. I was only able to indentify one in the baptisms, John 6 Aug 1743.
I have also searched through the Biographical Index for Church of Ireland Clergy and neither Rev John Graves nor Rev William Downing are mentioned with correct dates.
Peter
Thank you for this information about my 4xgt.grandfathers the Rev.John Graves (1709-1788) wife Jane Hudson aka Mrs. Hodgson (1705-1789), which has cleared up the mystery as to why she was listed by both names in the family history.
According to my grandmother the Rev. John Graves has been a Chaplin in the Royal Navy, which may explain the reason that he is not listed in the Biographical Index for the Church of Ireland Clergy.
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Hello "G Mix"
Good to hear from you.
All I have on the Graves family is a "Lt. John Graves RN" of Cornwall (?) who married Elizabeth DOWNING, daughter of Rev. William Downing of Rocktown, Co Derry.
We know that William was born either 1709 or 1710 from verified sources, and we know his daughter was born in 1739.
We know Lt. John Graves was born abt. 1729/30 because he died on 26 Mar 1806 at age 76.
It's interesting to note that your "Rev. John Graves" was also in the royal navy, although these are certainly two different men.
Lt. John and Elizabeth had two sons; Capt. Thomas, and Samuel, and three daughters; Mary Ann, Jane, and Elizabeth.
As Rev John was at some time "of Castledawson", in the same area as Elizabeth Downing, I suspect that he may have been an uncle of Lt. John and a contemporary of Rev William Downing. I doubt he would have been Lt. John's father due to having the same forename as your "Rev John".
Also note that our "Lt. John" named one of his sons Samuel, and a daughter Jane.
Interesting nevertheless.
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Hello "G Mix"
Good to hear from you.
All I have on the Graves family is a "Lt. John Graves RN" of Cornwall (?) who married Elizabeth DOWNING, daughter of Rev. William Downing of Rocktown, Co Derry.
We know that William was born either 1709 or 1710 from verified sources, and we know his daughter was born in 1739.
We know Lt. John Graves was born abt. 1729/30 because he died on 26 Mar 1806 at age 76.
It's interesting to note that your "Rev. John Graves" was also in the royal navy, although these are certainly two different men.
Lt. John and Elizabeth had two sons; Capt. Thomas, and Samuel, and three daughters; Mary Ann, Jane, and Elizabeth.
As Rev John was at some time "of Castledawson", in the same area as Elizabeth Downing, I suspect that he may have been an uncle of Lt. John and a contemporary of Rev William Downing. I doubt he would have been Lt. John's father due to having the same forename as your "Rev John".
Also note that our "Lt. John" named one of his sons Samuel, and a daughter Jane.
Interesting nevertheless.
Thanks for the speedy reply and I will try to find out which of the many John Graves R.N., you are after, because there were several natural children, who went to sea with other Graves relations.
I read in an earlier post of yours that his wife had died at Gravesend House, Antony, Cornwall, which is interesting as this house was in the grounds of Admiral Lord Thomas Graves 1725-1802 family home at Thanks in Torpoint, near Antony in Cornwall, where there is a fine monument to his grandfather in the nearby Antony church.
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Hello "G Mix"
Good to hear from you.
All I have on the Graves family is a "Lt. John Graves RN" of Cornwall (?) who married Elizabeth DOWNING, daughter of Rev. William Downing of Rocktown, Co Derry.
We know that William was born either 1709 or 1710 from verified sources, and we know his daughter was born in 1739.
We know Lt. John Graves was born abt. 1729/30 because he died on 26 Mar 1806 at age 76.
It's interesting to note that your "Rev. John Graves" was also in the royal navy, although these are certainly two different men.
Lt. John and Elizabeth had two sons; Capt. Thomas, and Samuel, and three daughters; Mary Ann, Jane, and Elizabeth.
Here is a link to John Graves, who lived at Gravesend, lt., R.N., whose will, was proved by his surviving daughter Mary Ann (nee Graves) Lapenetiere, wife of John Richards Lapenetiere.
http://www.opc-cornwall.org/Par_new/a_d/pdfs/antony_will_graves.pdf
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Hello Peter,
I don't know whether we ever communicated any further, but Henry Downing, whose last Codicil was dated 8 Mar 1822 of his 1820 Will, was the son of Revd. William Downing of Rocktown, Co. Derry, and grandson of Col. Adam Downing of Rocktown.
There is much info on Adam available online.
He was the younger brother of Elizabeth, who married Lt. John Graves.
cheers,
Rick
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Hi there
Just wanted to comment as am relieved it's not only me who is finding the Downing/Downey switchovers hard to keep up with.
I have Downing's/Downey's in a family tree I am researching and would love it if the David Downing/Downey (son of John Downing/Downey) born c.1848 in Drummuck/Lavey/Magherafelt was in some way related to the Downing mentioned in the original post! He married Mary Devlin in 1868 in Magherafelt. If you come across them at all, let me know!
K
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Also just found this and thought it could be a relation to the Downing's mentioned in this thread -
Edward Downing, born 18th August 1868, to Neil & Rose Anne.
Samuel Dawson Downing, born 16th May, 1871 to Neill Downing and Roseanne Brady, at Dreenan.
Francis Downing, born 6th September, 1874 to " "
John Downing, born 23rd September, 1877 to " "
Anne Jane Downing, born 12th March, 1880 to " "
James Downing, born 30th August, 1882 to " "
Margaret Downing, born 15th October, 1884 to " "
Catherine Mary Downing, born 4th November, 1887 to " "
K
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Hello K,
Firstly, on your Reply #43; I wouldn't get too worried about the various spellings used in that era. For example, my own tree had some family groups that spelled it DOWNING and some spelled it DOWNINGE. Also, when I was there this past May, I met Henry DOWNEY of Drumard, who told me his grandfather changed the spelling of his own name from DOWNING to DOWNEY. From the 1901 and 1911 census reports, you can see he did that sometime between those two dates. The local legend is that some Downings did not want to be associated with a notoriously ruthless landlord. My own 3rd great grandfather was transcribed as DOWNEY when he emigrated to America in 1827, either intentionally or by mistake, but used the name DOWNING in his naturalization hearings and throughout the rest of his life.
As for David Downing, b. c.1848, son of John Downing of Drummuck;
Drummuck is a Townland in Maghera Civil Parish just north of the village of Gulladuff. About 1/2 mile north of the village on the A42 is St. Mary's Roman Catholic Church of Lavey Parish, where several Downings are buried. The locals call it Lavey Parish, although it is within Maghera CIVIL Parish. Drummuck is just up Dreenan Road from St Mary's (very close).
On the 1831 Census there are 3 'John' Downings listed "of DREENAN", none of DRUMMUCK.
They occupied "House Numbers" 7, 94, and 95.
There is also a 'John' Downing buried at Lavey Parish whose slab is dated 1847, so he obviously could not be the father of your David.
And unfortunately 'John' is the most common forename used among the DOWNINGs of the era.
I am reviewing a list I made of DOWNINGs in the areas of Bellaghy, Gulladuff, Dreenan, Rocktown, Tamlaght, and Castledawson, and found no listing of any 'David's on the 1901 census, but there was David of DRUMMUCK listed on the 1911 census, so he would have been born about 1841.
There is also a second 'David' and a Mary A, both of Drummuck, aged 33 and 35 respectively, presumably a young couple.
I have been researching the DOWNING family of this area for over 20 years and have yet to establish any connection between those we term the "Dreenan" branch headed by Stafford Downing and the "Rocktown" branch headed by Col. Adam Downing, although I'm sure there is one. Almost all of the DOWNINGs in Northern Ireland in the early 18th century were in that small area.
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Hello K,
As for your reply #44;
On the 1901 Census there is a family group headed by Neil Downing of DREENAN, age given as 60, which means he was born about 1841.
His wife is listed as Rosa, age 51
Their children are listed as:
John, age 22
James, age 18
Margaret, age 16
Kate Mary, age 14
That is certainly a match to the family you've listed in your reply.
Edward, Samuel, Francis, and Anne apparently had all grown old enough to move out on their own, and left the area, or died young.
By 1911 it appears that Neil, Rose Anne, and John are still together, aged 72, 68, and 32 respectively. As you can tell by comparing census reports, it was quite common for people to lie about their ages, making it difficult for genealogists today to make positive identifications in many cases, especially with common names and larger populations. But in this case, there is no doubt.
Are you certain the dates you've listed are accurate ?
Are they from a reliable source, or your family history ?
I have seen the forename 'Neil' pop up somewhere before, but I can't place him in any particular branch.
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Hi Dukewm,
Thank you for your replies. To the first response, I have had trouble placing the exact date of birth for David Downey/Downing as there are conflicting ages transcribed on census returns and death records.
In 1901 and 1911 respectively, his year of birth is given as 'abt 1841', but on a death record for a David Downey, of Drummuck, who dies 24th May 1921 aged 70 years, a Widower and Farmer. The death was registered by a son, David Downey jr. which would give an estimated year of birth of 1851.
John Downey/Downing is not listed as being either alive or deceased on David's marriage record to Mary Devlin. David's Place of residence is given as Mayogall in 1868, and both he and his father John are listed as Labourers.
David & Mary's daughter, Mary Anne Downey born 6th September 1876 is who I am starting with and attempting to work back from, she married John Magee son of Henry Magee & Anne Hatton, on 25th April 1911.
You do indeed seem to have a very keen and in-depth knowledge of the area.
Perhaps one of the John's you have found in 1831 and the death of John in 1847, could well be the father of David.
Keelan
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To Whomever: In the quest that some of you have helped me with concerning Robert Henry and Elizabeth Sharon Downing I had not mentioned that in addition to tracing down this paper trail I have also been chasing a DNA trail. It is through the Henry/Downing couple that this DNA trail weaves itself to a distant female cousin who lives in New Zealand. Together, we share several common matches, both in the US and New Zealand, running through UK. The following information is preliminary, but it appears that the sir name Scott might be a common ancestor that unites this NZ lady with me. We share 46 CM of DNA Material.
I have seen that the name Scott is present in Derry in the mid to late 1800s but I haven't found any Scotts toward the end of the 18th century of in the Maghera Derry area or in the Loungheil, Antrim area.
Are any of you aware of any Scotts in these areas toward the end of the 18th centrury?
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In response to Romandog’s Reply # 48, there are indeed Downing descendants living in New Zealand and Australia today. The late Tim Mansfield who started the Facebook group “Downing Family of Bellaghy & Maghera” had a cousin from NZ as I recall. I can’t remember her name off the top of my head, and my computer is down at this time. When I closed my Facebook account a few years ago, Tim’s sister was the only remaining Administrator, and she apparently is inactive in the group, so I haven’t been able to get back in.
Anyway, no, I haven’t got any information on the Scott tree, or any connections to the Downing branches that I’m aware of. Sorry.
slainte,
Rick
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1.Col. Adam Downing m.
2.John Downing m. Anne Rowe
3.Margaret Downign m. Capt. James Hand
3.Sarah Downing m. Charles Dawson
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1.Rev. David Fullerton, c. 1705-1789
2.George, 1726-1780 m. Amy Frisby
3.Catherine m. 1. Dawson Downing of Bellaghy, 1739-1807, of Rosegift and Londonderry; m.2.
to either Anne Boyd, dau of Ezekiel Davis Boyd or Sarah Catherine Boyd, the dau of Hugh Boyd.
4.George Alexander Downing-Fullerton, died abt. 1847; he assumed the name of Fullerton in 1794 as heir of his grand uncle, Alexander Fullerton of Jamaica and Ballintoy.
5.Alexander George Downing-Fullerton, d. 1907; m. 1833 to Lady Georgina, dau of the 1st Earl
of Granville
5.Susannah Downing-Fullerton m. 1856 John Nexbitt Maxwell, son of Robert Maxwell, barrister.
Children by miss Boyd
4.Rosetta Downing
4.Amelia Downing, b. 1786
4.Anne Downing, b. 1788
4.John Downing, b. 1790
4.Mary Downing, b. 1792
4.Catherine Downing, b. 1794
4.Sally Downing, b. 1795
4.Ezekiel Hugh Downing, b. 1795
4.William Downing, 1798-1825
4.Margaret Downing, 1800-1885
4.David Downing, b. 1802
1848--Rev. Henry Dawson, 2nd son of the Rt. Hon. George Dawson of Castledawson, Londonderry, and the nephew of Sir Robert Peel m. to Anne, 2nd dau of the Hon. Baron Dimsdale.
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Some Fullertons
1.Donald M'Donald m. Catherine M'Alister
2.Jane M'Donald m. John Richmond
3.Ann Richmond m. Edward Fullarton
4.Alice Fullarton
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1.Alexander Montgomery m. ?
2.Rose Montgomery m. William Fullerton
3.Mary Fullerton m. Adam Hill of Moyarget
4.William Hill, died 1854, aged 80
5.Rev. George Hill
5.Frances Downing-Fullerton, 1814-1890, m. Sir Andrew Armstrong