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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: Timetraveller77 on Monday 15 March 10 04:41 GMT (UK)

Title: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Monday 15 March 10 04:41 GMT (UK)
I am trying to unravel a knot of the RAE family from Carron/Larbert of Stirlingshire.
 
My GGG Grandfather was Peter K RAE:
b. 17 Oct 1806
Christened 2 Nov 1806
d. 4 Dec 1883   
Buried: Larbert Churchyard with wife)

He married Janet BRAIDWOOD:
b. 1809 Carnwath, Lanarkshire  (possibly to parents John BRAIDWOOD and Jane MILLER)       
d. 14 Jul 1897, Larbert   
Buried: Larbert Churchyard with husband )

They married 20 Dec 1839, Larbert, Stirlingshire and had the following children:

1. Jane RAE:
b. 24 Feb 1841, Larbert 
d. 11 Mar 1918 
She married: James LOW (b. 30 May 1839)

2. Bethia RAE
b. 1845 Larbert 
d. ?
She married: Alexander McDonald BOWER

3. Peter RAE
b. 28 Aug 1851, Carron, Larbert   
d. 26 Jul 1937 Larbert 
buried: Larbert Cemetery
He married: Isabella SCOTT (b. 1851 Falkirk)

So far I have used IGI to find Peter K RAE's parents to probably be
William RAE (b. 1778 to 1784, Larbert)
and Bethia TOWERS (b. 1782 to 1786, Larbert).

I have some conflicting information that suggests Peter K RAE (b. 1806) is the son of:
 William RAE (b. May 5 1783 Polmont)
 and Margaret Black Thomson (b. Mar 13 1788 Polmont).

Using the Scottish naming traditions, and locations of birth (Larbert) I ASSUME Bethia Towers is the correct parentage, because there is a lineage of girls called Bethia in the family.

Is someone able to untangle this family from other RAEs in that region please?

Also any extra information for Peter RAE (jnr) would be great. He was a famous man in Falkirk, starting at the Carron Iron Works, then Stenhousemuir Building Society. There is a "Rae Street" in Stenhousemuir named after him.
He married Isabella SCOTT 15 Dec 1871, and I have a few kids based on the 1891 Census.
But we would like to know more about his lineage if possible please.

Lastly any other info about Bethia RAE who married Alexander BOWER, and of course anything on the ancestors, Janet BRAIDWOOD and PETER RAE's families.

Many thanks for any help or leads anyone can share...
Janine (Australia)
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Friday 26 March 10 05:46 GMT (UK)
Hi all,
just an update:
Peter Rae (jnr) born 1851, was survived by three sons and three daughters at his death in 1937.

From the 1881 Census records I have:
 one son:
Peter RAE born 1875,
and four daughters:
Margaret (Maggie) RAE born 1873,
Janet RAE born 1878,
Isabella RAE Born 1880,
and Jane RAE born 1884 died 1966 Buried Larbert churchyard w/ father

Can anyone help find the names and birthdates for the other two sons please? And death dates for any of the girls?

BRAIDWOOD's: still not sure who Janet Braidwood's parentage is either. It appears the Braidwoods have a huge family in Lanarkshire, but just who belongs to who is proving tricky to put together....any help would be appreciated.  :)
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: apanderson on Friday 26 March 10 07:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Janine,

If you were to download Peter & Janet's Death Certificates (from Scotland's People), you would be able to confirm who their parents were. You'd also get the occupations of both fathers.

Once you had that info, it would be much easier to 'untangle' the remainder and pick out the correct Rae family members.

Anne
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: apanderson on Friday 26 March 10 07:32 GMT (UK)
Hi again,

Have a look at this site: http://www.memento-mori.co.uk/40.pdf (Larbert Old Parish Churchyard)

As you'll see, there are quite a few Raes (and Braidwoods too).

Anne

**Added later

I had a wee peek at Peter's DC and it confirms that his parents were William Rae, Carpenter and Bethia Rae (nee Towers), both deceased and that he was married to Janet Braidwood.
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Friday 26 March 10 08:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Anne, thanks for your posts.
After a bit of mucking around I have managed to purchase and save a copy of Janet RAE (nee BRAIDWOOD)'s death registry entry from Scotlandspeople.

From what I can make of it (I struggle with the old writing/language):

"Janet RAE, widow of Peter Rae, Iron Weigher.
Died 14 Jul 1897, age 88 yrs, at 188 Southwoodside Road, Kelvin, Glasgow of Senile debility and  ?   Cardiac(?)"

"Father John BRAIDWOOD, deceased, Iron Works Furnace man"
"Mother Margaret BRAIDWOOD, deceased, nee Millar"
"informant Peter RAE, son, of Stenhouseview, Stenhousemuir, Jul 14 1897 at Glasgow"

This all matches the headstone, and grave inscriptions so it's my girl. Interesting to see her mother is Margaret Millar. IGI shows Jane/Jean Millar.

Oh well I now have her parents names as a certainty.
And thanks for Peter's parents confirmation. I am now on my way.....

Cheers, Janine
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: apanderson on Friday 26 March 10 10:12 GMT (UK)
Great stuff Janine!

I've sent you a PM regarding Peter Rae.

Was the entry on IGI a 'Submission'? If so, that's probably why Margaret was listed as Janet.

Anne
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Friday 26 March 10 10:38 GMT (UK)
Hello again Anne, (just sent you a PM too).

Not sure of that IGI record was a submission. The hassle is there IS a couple out there called John Braidwood and Jean Millar....I have seen their descendants trees online.  My one is more elusive it seems  :(

I found the following 1891 census on Scotlands People for Peter Rae (jnr) and his family in Larbert, as follows: Munro Street, Larbert 

Peter RAE, age 39, Head, Foundry Warehouseman, born Larbert
Isabella RAE, age 40, wife, born Falkirk
Maggie RAE, age 17, dau, Toy Shop Assistant, born Falkirk
Peter RAE, age 16, son, Bakers Apprentice, born Falkirk
Janet RAE, age 13, dau, Scholar, born Larbert
Isabella RAE, age 10, dau, Scholar, born Larbert
Jane RAE, age 6, dau, Scholar, born Larbert
John S RAE, age 3, son, born Larbert
James B RAE, 4 mnths, son, born Larbert

I suspect that John S Rae has the middle name SCOTT after his mothers maiden name and brother James B Rae has the middle name of BRAIDWOOD after his father's mothers maiden name. Pure guess, but an educated one  :)

Interestingly they are living next door to some Braidwood's but none that seem to match my family sadly.
Hopefully someone can help fill some more gaps for these families now....

Cheers Janine
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: apanderson on Friday 26 March 10 10:55 GMT (UK)
E-mail on it's way.

If you had a look at that other site I mentioned earlier, you'll see that there's lots of Raes and Braidwoods listed on stones in Larbert Old Churchyard. Maybe you'll be able to find some of yours there?

Anne
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Friday 26 March 10 22:27 GMT (UK)
Hi Anne,

I have had a look at all the Larbert cemetery lists via Memento-Mori, and a lot of the names don't match my tree (as yet). I found two William Rae's but I am not sure if either are my ancestor since I have no idea of his birth date yet.

That site is very useful though, so I will keep checking it once more info comes in for both families.
Cheers.
Janine
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: davidbraidwood on Sunday 02 May 10 21:31 BST (UK)
Janine,

I research all Braidwoods, so I will try to help.

In my files I have your Janet as the daughter of John Braidwood and Jean Millar.

I realise that her death registration shows her mother as Margaret Millar, but I have to assume that that is incorrect, as it often was. The witness was Peter Rae and you would think that he would know the name of his grandmother, but it wasn't always the case.

There is no record of a John Braidwood marrying a Margaret Millar. A John Broadwood married a Margaret Miller, but that was in 1754 and can be discounted.

There is no record of John Braidwood marrying Jean Millar either, but there are records of them having seven children between 1809 and 1819, the first four in Carnwath and the last three in Larbert.
John Braidwood then remarried Jean Bell in 1822 in Larbert and had another nine children, all born in Larbert.

John and many of his children are buried in Larbert West Kirkyard.

A John Braidwood did marry an Elizabeth Millar in 1795 in Inchture, Perthshire. Maybe she died and he married her sister as often happened.

I'll keep looking and advise if I find anything else.

David Braidwood


Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Sunday 02 May 10 22:49 BST (UK)
Hello David,
welcome to Rootschat, and thanks for your input. Yes, it would appear the death cert is a red herring, and I agree it is more likely that Jean MILLER/MILLAR is her mother. I have emailed Carnwath district library to see if they have any old parish registers for a marriage between John and Jean, but if you haven't found anything, it may suggest the document doesn't exist.

FYI, you will need to remove your personal email address before the moderators see it. It is part of their code of conduct not to put private emails on the boards. You can Personal Message someone once you have done 3 or more posts (I think). 
Cheers,
Janine
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: davidbraidwood on Monday 03 May 10 16:20 BST (UK)
Janine, some more information.

Your Janet Braidwood had a brother James b 1815 m JEAN Anderson 1841

They had children WILLIAM b 1850 and James Anderson
JAMES ANDERSON married ISABELLA DUNCAN and had children
JAMES, WILLIAM DUNCAN, JOHN, EUPHEMIA LAMOND and GEORGE DUNCAN.

All the upper case people were living next door to Peter Rae and Isabella Scott on the 1891 census.

David
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Tuesday 04 May 10 02:25 BST (UK)
Janine, some more information.

Your Janet Braidwood had a brother James b 1815 m JEAN Anderson 1841

They had children WILLIAM b 1850 and James Anderson
JAMES ANDERSON married ISABELLA DUNCAN and had children
JAMES, WILLIAM DUNCAN, JOHN, EUPHEMIA LAMOND and GEORGE DUNCAN.

All the upper case people were living next door to Peter Rae and Isabella Scott on the 1891 census.

David


Hi again David. Thanks for confirming that for me. I have a copy of this 1891 Census sheet, and sat down yesterday to do the maths and see if the Braidwoods were who I thought they might be. So I eventually worked out that they were the cousins to Peter Rae.

Did you also spot their mother, Jean Braidwood [nee Anderson] living next door as well? She is with elder son William Braidwood (age 40, unmarried, Occ: Mole Catcher). Jean is shown as Widow, age 76, born Slamanan, Stirlingshire.

This is Munro Street in Larbert and it's cool to think the cousins were all living next to one another.

I have more info to compare with you so I might PM you and see what you have as well.
Chat soon...
thanks again,
regards Janine
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Saturday 13 November 10 02:32 GMT (UK)
Hi to everyone following this thread....just before I complete it forever, thought I might add a few bits of info in case someone is interested.

Found my ancestor Peter Rae's mother - Bethia TOWERS in 1841 census with her daughter Francis RAE as follows:

1841 Carronshore, Labert, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Bothea TOWERS  age 55  b. Stirling
Francis RAE          age 30  b. Stirling

Interesting to see "Bothea"s surname is TOWERS (ie her maiden name) and not husband William's surname of RAE.   I have heard of Scots unofficially 'marrying' using the handfasting ceremony...so I wonder if this couple did that. No parish records show a marriage for William RAE and Bethia TOWERS.

Their daughter Francis RAE (b. 1809, Larbert), who I had listed as a male, thanks to IGI, is also in 1851 and 1861 census records. She died, unmarried, in 1863, Larbert, Stirlingshire, age 54.

I can't find her sister Mary RAE (b. 1812, Larbert) in any census records. IGI shows a possible marriage for Mary to William HOTCHKIS, but using that surname has also brought zero results.

Also can't find brother James RAE (b. 1817, Larbert) in any census records.

Eldest son William Rae (b. 1804, Larbert) married Catherine HENDERSON, and I have them and their family in 1841, 1851, 1861 and 1881.

Still pursuing descendants, but if anyone has anything to add to this RAE family I would be grateful for anything.

Cheers,
Janine
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Dano on Friday 19 November 10 00:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Janine,

William Rae b 1804 Larbert and married to Catherine Henderson was a ships carpenter.  He died 3 July 1881 Larbert.  I have ther death certificate.  If you want to PM me with your e-mail address I can send you a copy.  Catherine died 1876 Larbert but I did not purchase that record.  She was aged 70 at the time of her death.  I have 8 children for the couple from 1834 to the last William born 1848 who was the informant on his fathers death certificate.

cheers Dano
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Friday 19 November 10 01:38 GMT (UK)
Hi Dano,
thanks for your posting.  I would love a copy of William Rae's death cert, so I will PM you straight away. Thanks.

I have Catherine Rae (Henderson)'s death date as 23 Apr 1876 Larbert, sourced from a Tom Paterson UK website. He has an amazing collection of data on there so you should check it out sometime, if you haven't already  :).

And yes, I have 8 children for the couple as well, using all the census records as a source (and Tom Paterson's website again).

Thanks again for your offer. Chat soon.
Regards,
Janine
Title: Re: John Currie
Post by: anzac49 on Friday 17 December 10 06:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Janine,

I always thought that I was reasonably proficient when placed in front of a computer keyboard.

Not So!!  :-[

I can't for the life of me find a reply button for your kind msg to me re John Currie and his tree - hence I'm in this string (hopefully not too impertinently)

Thank you - I would love to have any info that you have on the Curries of Ardbeg Farm.

My info is ever so general.

I have a rather detailed tree of their New Zealand roots through John Currie's son William, whose son (also) John was my Great Grandfather (I think) on my mother's side. I would be happy to share any of this that you might like.

given that I can't even find the "reply" button for personal messages, I'm now wondering how we go about exchanging info - hope very much that you're a master!!

Kind Regards from some far distant relative.  Iain




I note that you're in Oz - I'm in Sydney (North).
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Friday 17 December 10 08:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Iain,

thanks for the message. I tried sending you a PM but it says your limit has been reached. Sadly I cannot post my email address on a board, as it breaches the rules.

If you click on my 'scroll' symbol below my ID on the left of this page, you should be able to send me a Personal message.  If not, you need to post a few more notes on a board before you can PM someone.   Rather frustrating, as I believe we are closer cousins than you might think, and we may be able to help one another.

Cheers, Janine
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: ev on Friday 17 December 10 09:46 GMT (UK)
hi Iain

welcome to rootschat  :)

you have to make 3 posts before you can use the personal message service
once you have done that then , as Janine notes , click on her green scroll to send a message

ev
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: VioletB on Tuesday 01 March 11 17:47 GMT (UK)
I have only recently found that my great great grandmother Janet Anderson was a younger sister to Jean Anderspn who married James Braidwood.   As far as I can tell they had eight children.  James died June1866 in Larbert and Jean died 24th May 1903 in Larbert age 89.  She was living with her son Wiliam age 50, a mole catcher l at 13 Munro Street, Larbert
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Tuesday 01 March 11 20:35 GMT (UK)
Hi VoiletB,
thanks for your addition to the Braidwood thread.....yes, I have Jean (nee Anderson) and her son William Braidwood in the 1891 Census at Munro Street, Larbert. Did you know that her son James Braidwood, and nephew Peter Rae were living in the same street that year with their wives and children? 

You may be interested to know that Jean is buried in Larbert East Cemetery, Stirlingshire. Her record appears on the memento-mori website. The death date matches, but I noticed that the age they have listed does not. Memento-mori state her age as 96, when we know she would've been 88-89yrs old.

Jean's husband, James Braidwood, was my GGG grandmothers brother. 
All the best in your search for your family tree.

Regards,
Janine
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: kategrr on Saturday 10 January 15 23:32 GMT (UK)
Hi

I have lived in Peter Rae's house "Stenhouse View"for the past 30 years, with the title deeds of the house I have a copy of his will. He mentions Peter Rae Jnr, Janet Rae, James Braidwood Rae, John Rae and Jean Rae. He left the house to Jean in his will. I would be happy to scan a copy of the documents I have if they would be of any interest to you. I've was approached by a lady living a couple of streets away who is related in some way to Jean, I think she may be a niece. She was able to walk me through the house with her memories.
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Sunday 11 January 15 04:20 GMT (UK)
Hello kategrr, and welcome to rootschat,
wow, you've certainly amazed me with your message...not only with the knowledge of you having lived in my GG uncles home all these years, but the Will, and a potential new living relative as well!!

I would dearly love to view the documents you have regarding Peter Rae Jnr (d. 1937) and anything you can tell me about the house, and his family.  I will PM you with my contact details.

Look forward to hearing from you!
thank you, and regards,
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: clearyce on Monday 13 November 17 05:08 GMT (UK)
Not sure if anyone is still using this site, but I've been trying to uncover my boyfriend's mysterious family tree, and this thread seems like a really good lead. My boyfriend's grandfather is Peter Rae, who was born in Clydesbank, Scotland in 1926. He had a sister named Isabel Rae that was born in New Jersey, USA in 1924. There is some weird family history and I'd love it to get it sorted for my boyfriend and his dad. They are completely out of touch since the death of Peter.

Here's what I've found:
1923: Peter and Isabel's father, James Braidwood Rae (born , came to the US with his wife Mary. According to immigration records, their "closest relative" was Peter Rae, James' father, who lived at "Church Street, Stenhousemuir, Larbert". Kearny, New Jersey was their destination.
1924: Isabel Rae is born May 19th in New Jersey, USA.
1926: Peter Rae is born May 28th in Clydesbank, Scotland. In October, Mary, 33, returns to the US with Mary Isabel Kerr Rae, 2, and Peter, 4 months. I've only found records for their return. Not sure if James ever made the trip to Scotland.
1928: James and Mary listed as residing in Kearny, NJ.
1930: Census records James as widowed, living with Isabel, 5, Peter, 3 1/2, and sister-in-law, Jean Dewar, 41, also from Scotland (naturalized in 1925). Presumably, Mary's maiden name was Dewar.
1934: Isabel, 10, and Peter, 8, return from Scotland with their aunt Elizabeth Dewar, 43. Elizabeth and Isabel's most recent residences are listed as separate towns in NJ, but Peter's is listed as East Killbride, Scotland.
1940: James, 48, Isabel, 15, and Peter, 13 still living in NJ. James is now remarried to Elizabeth, 48, who is maybe Mary's other sister?

Peter Rae passed away in 1975. Apparently, he continued to live in NJ until his passing, and it's possible that Isabel did as well (she may have also had a daughter named Isabel). No clue what happened to James Braidwood Rae or Elizabeth.

Peter's son and grandson are looking to get in touch with their Scottish roots and possibly reconnect with family.

Appreciate any input/advice!
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Monday 13 November 17 07:37 GMT (UK)
Hello "Clearyce",
well I think I can say with almost absolute certainty that your boyfriend is my distant cousin. We share common ancestors, Peter RAE (b.1806) and Janet BRAIDWOOD (b.1809).

I even have a photo and some news stories about your boyfriends gg grandfather, Peter Rae (b. 1851 Carron, Larbert, Stirling, Scotland), as he was my ggg uncle.

I have a fairly extensive tree for this family, and beyond, so I will PM you my email address, and we can get started from there. I don't actually have James Braidwood RAE's wife, and kids on my tree, so you've helped me out a lot too.
Very Exciting!

Look forward to hearing from you, and hopefully helping you and your boyfriends family connect some ancestral dots :)

Regards, JJ
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: hilarybelton on Friday 24 November 17 23:29 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone,

I started looking for the Braidwoods about 2005 ish, my direct ancestor is John Braidwood who married Jean Millar. This week I thought I would revisit them and update all my records.

So I'm just checking in at the moment to say that this is a lovely thread and I'm happy to hear from anyone who might be related to me :)

Hilary
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Saturday 25 November 17 00:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Hilary,
you and I are cousins it seems  ;D
Are you the descendant from John and Jean's son, William Braidwood (b.1810 Carnwath)?
He was my ancestor, Janet RAE (nee Braidwood)'s brother.

For some odd reason I have a note on my family tree file that you are his descendant.. perhaps I saw another post of yours from a Braidwood thread? It's been years since I posted anything about them, and haven't bothered to re-read them all.

Feel free to PM me your email address, and perhaps we can help one another fill gaps on our respective Braidwood branches.
 :)

Nice to hear from you, and discover another relative  :)
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: hilarybelton on Saturday 25 November 17 10:27 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I'm actually descended from John Braidwood 1817, son of John Braidwood and Jean Millar, who lived in Liverpool, UK - there was a lot of confusion in the early days before it was possible for me to get the certificates that I needed, but I'll PM you, and I'll update this post for the benefit of other researchers later.

Hilary
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 25 November 17 10:34 GMT (UK)
I have emailed Carnwath district library to see if they have any old parish registers for a marriage between John and Jean, but if you haven't found anything, it may suggest the document doesn't exist.
All the surviving registers of the Church of Scotland were collected in 1855 by the Registrar General for Scotland, and they form the basis of the Scotland's People database. Other churches' registers are either still with the respective churches or in the National Records of Scotland or a few in local archives. The Roman Catholic ones and many of the Secession (Free) Churches' registers are available through Scotland's People. There is a published list of the extant Secession Churches' registers, but it contains no listings of pre-1855 registers from Carnwath.

Interesting to see "Bothea"s surname is TOWERS (ie her maiden name) and not husband William's surname of RAE.   I have heard of Scots unofficially 'marrying' using the handfasting ceremony...so I wonder if this couple did that. No parish records show a marriage for William RAE and Bethia TOWERS.
Is 'Bothea' from a transcription, or is it your own reading of the original? In older documents 'e' and 'o' can look very similar. I wouldn't read anything into it.

As for her surname, it's not unusual for married women, and quite common for widows, to be listed in the census and other documents by their maiden surnames. In Scotland, a married woman does not legally lose her own surname, and in legal documents she is usually named as xxx yyy or zzz, where xxx is her given names(s), yyy is her maiden name and zzz is her husband's surname. This is why you usually get a mother's maiden surname in Scottish baptism records (if the mother is named at all!).

Here's an extract from the Rothes parish register: "1748, September 11th. William lawful son to Alexander Leslie of Balnageith in Burncrooks and Mrs Anne Duff his spouse was baptized" , and here's another, this one from Brechin: "1834, 26th June. James Hay merchant in Arbroath and Margaret Sang, widow, residing in Timber Market in this parish were contracted in order to marriage and having been regularly proclaimed were married the 30th June". Margaret died in 1870, and her death certificate confirms that Sang was her maiden surname and she was married twice, first to Andrew Watt and second to James Hay. 

If the baptisms of the children of William Rae and Bethia Towers say they were 'lawful' (or some contraction of 'lawful') that means that the parish clerk was satisfied that they were born in wedlock. As long as they don't say 'natural child' or 'begotten in fornication' or something of the sort it is reasonable to suppose that the clerk believed that the parents were legally married.

As for handfasting, if a couple publicly promised to marry one another and then produced a child, that was enough to constitute a legally valid marriage, even if the Kirk frowned upon such marriages. See https://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: hilarybelton on Saturday 25 November 17 11:10 GMT (UK)
Thank you for the explanation of the old registers, that's very helpful. As to the maiden names, marriages, et al, of course I agree with you on all that, and I like the examples that you have quoted. I think the Scottish ways regarding mother's maiden name were much better! Also, at certain times, they kept brilliant records with a degree of detail that is never (or rarely) seen elsewhere :)
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Trixie10 on Thursday 01 September 22 07:51 BST (UK)
I am the daughter of Isabel Rae whose brother was Peter Rae, father was James Braidwood Rae. Isabel married and had two daughters, she lived in NJ and in the late 80s moved to Florida.  My grandfather, James Braidwood Rae, lived in Surf City NJ.


Not sure if anyone is still using this site, but I've been trying to uncover my boyfriend's mysterious family tree, and this thread seems like a really good lead. My boyfriend's grandfather is Peter Rae, who was born in Clydesbank, Scotland in 1926. He had a sister named Isabel Rae that was born in New Jersey, USA in 1924. There is some weird family history and I'd love it to get it sorted for my boyfriend and his dad. They are completely out of touch since the death of Peter.

Here's what I've found:
1923: Peter and Isabel's father, James Braidwood Rae (born , came to the US with his wife Mary. According to immigration records, their "closest relative" was Peter Rae, James' father, who lived at "Church Street, Stenhousemuir, Larbert". Kearny, New Jersey was their destination.
1924: Isabel Rae is born May 19th in New Jersey, USA.
1926: Peter Rae is born May 28th in Clydesbank, Scotland. In October, Mary, 33, returns to the US with Mary Isabel Kerr Rae, 2, and Peter, 4 months. I've only found records for their return. Not sure if James ever made the trip to Scotland.
1928: James and Mary listed as residing in Kearny, NJ.
1930: Census records James as widowed, living with Isabel, 5, Peter, 3 1/2, and sister-in-law, Jean Dewar, 41, also from Scotland (naturalized in 1925). Presumably, Mary's maiden name was Dewar.
1934: Isabel, 10, and Peter, 8, return from Scotland with their aunt Elizabeth Dewar, 43. Elizabeth and Isabel's most recent residences are listed as separate towns in NJ, but Peter's is listed as East Killbride, Scotland.
1940: James, 48, Isabel, 15, and Peter, 13 still living in NJ. James is now remarried to Elizabeth, 48, who is maybe Mary's other sister?

Peter Rae passed away in 1975. Apparently, he continued to live in NJ until his passing, and it's possible that Isabel did as well (she may have also had a daughter named Isabel). No clue what happened to James Braidwood Rae or Elizabeth.

Peter's son and grandson are looking to get in touch with their Scottish roots and possibly reconnect with family.

Appreciate any input/advice!
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: sarah on Thursday 01 September 22 19:56 BST (UK)
Hi Trixie, you are looking for the reply button which you will find at the end of the topic, here you have clicked on the quote button ;)

Regards

Sarah
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: hilarybelton on Thursday 01 September 22 20:29 BST (UK)
Just in case Trixie is trying to continue the conversation, I'm still receiving messages on this thread!
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: Timetraveller77 on Thursday 01 September 22 23:35 BST (UK)
Hi Trixie (and others following this thread),
I am the original Rootschatter who posted about this family, so I am delighted to hear from another "cousin".
I will P.M you :)
But yes, it would appear you're one of our relatives. Regards, J J
Title: Re: Peter RAE / Janet BRAIDWOOD et al
Post by: clearyce on Friday 02 September 22 00:25 BST (UK)
WHATTTTTTTT! That's insane! haha. My ex-bf/new husband's (:P) dad has memories of your family get togethers in Surf City! He'd love to get in touch!

Colleen

I am the daughter of Isabel Rae whose brother was Peter Rae, father was James Braidwood Rae. Isabel married and had two daughters, she lived in NJ and in the late 80s moved to Florida.  My grandfather, James Braidwood Rae, lived in Surf City NJ.


Not sure if anyone is still using this site, but I've been trying to uncover my boyfriend's mysterious family tree, and this thread seems like a really good lead. My boyfriend's grandfather is Peter Rae, who was born in Clydesbank, Scotland in 1926. He had a sister named Isabel Rae that was born in New Jersey, USA in 1924. There is some weird family history and I'd love it to get it sorted for my boyfriend and his dad. They are completely out of touch since the death of Peter.

Here's what I've found:
1923: Peter and Isabel's father, James Braidwood Rae (born , came to the US with his wife Mary. According to immigration records, their "closest relative" was Peter Rae, James' father, who lived at "Church Street, Stenhousemuir, Larbert". Kearny, New Jersey was their destination.
1924: Isabel Rae is born May 19th in New Jersey, USA.
1926: Peter Rae is born May 28th in Clydesbank, Scotland. In October, Mary, 33, returns to the US with Mary Isabel Kerr Rae, 2, and Peter, 4 months. I've only found records for their return. Not sure if James ever made the trip to Scotland.
1928: James and Mary listed as residing in Kearny, NJ.
1930: Census records James as widowed, living with Isabel, 5, Peter, 3 1/2, and sister-in-law, Jean Dewar, 41, also from Scotland (naturalized in 1925). Presumably, Mary's maiden name was Dewar.
1934: Isabel, 10, and Peter, 8, return from Scotland with their aunt Elizabeth Dewar, 43. Elizabeth and Isabel's most recent residences are listed as separate towns in NJ, but Peter's is listed as East Killbride, Scotland.
1940: James, 48, Isabel, 15, and Peter, 13 still living in NJ. James is now remarried to Elizabeth, 48, who is maybe Mary's other sister?

Peter Rae passed away in 1975. Apparently, he continued to live in NJ until his passing, and it's possible that Isabel did as well (she may have also had a daughter named Isabel). No clue what happened to James Braidwood Rae or Elizabeth.

Peter's son and grandson are looking to get in touch with their Scottish roots and possibly reconnect with family.

Appreciate any input/advice!