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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tyrone => Topic started by: baltibluebird on Friday 05 March 10 11:42 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I have a gt grandmother who was born around 1844/46 in Newtonstewart, Co Tyrone.
Does anyone know, please, where the birth/marriage records are held for this area and if they are available on line?
Is there an Irish equivalent to free bmd please?
Her name was Catherine Ann Fitzsimmons (nee Allen) and her husband was William Fiztsimmons.
Thanks in anticipation ...
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Civil registration started in Ireland in 1864 - so you will need church records to locate birth details. Do you know what religion your Fitzsimmons family were ?
Shane
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Hi Shane
This is a difficult one!
William & Catherine Ann's daughter, also Catherine was married in a Church of England, but to my mind that doesn't necessarily mean that they were originally C of E, they could have been originally Catholic.
To be honest, I don't know the answer to this but hopefully if I can find perhaps the marriage record of William & Catherine then that may ched some light.
I am currently trying to trace the family back from the 1901 census. I know for a fact that in 1892 when their daugther was married, the father was dec'd, from the marriage entry.
Thanks in anticipation...
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Hi again
From the 1891 census (which I know is the correct family as it is the address given on the marriage cert) Catherine Ann is a widow. She has 5 children living with her, one is Sarah A Fitzsimons (note the spelling) and her birth is abt 1864 Newtonstewart. The other 4 children are all born in Preston, Lancs.
I wonder whether her birth falls within the civil registration and if so, how do I go about searching for it please; I have already checked the IGI but there is nothing that I can see.
Thanks in anticipation ...
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May have found some information. There's a widow named Catherine Fitzsimmons at Preston, Lancs. in 1881 census (www.familysearch.org)-
13 Inkerman St., Preston, Lancashire, England-
Catherine A. FITZIMONS, wid., 37, Ireland
dau. Sarah A. FITZIMONS, 17, Ireland, Cotton Weaver
dau. Isabella FITZIMONS, 16, Ireland, Cotton Weaver
dau. Margaret FITZIMONS, 14, Ireland, Cotton Weaver
dau. Catherine FITZIMONS, 9, Preston, Scholar
son William FITZIMONS, 6, Preston, Scholar
son Thomas FITZIMONS, 3
dau. Maria J. FITZIMONS, 1, Preston
Fits in with following children found in IGI with parents William Fitzimons and Cath(e)rine Allen:
1. Bella born 29 Jan.1865 Gortin district, Co.Tyrone (page 151 in civil register)
2. Margaret born 2 Oct.1866 Gortin district, Co.Tyrone (page 125 in civil register)
3, Maria Jane born 17 Mar.1869 Co.Tyrone
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Hi,
A parent search on the IGI gives the following children born to William Fitzsimmons and Catherine Allen in Gortin Tyrone. Spelling for children is Fitzsimons.
29 Jan 1865 Bella
2 Oct 1866 Margaret
17 Mar 1869 Maria Jane
Regards
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Judging by age of children in 1881 census William was probably not long dead- sure enough, there's a death for William Fitzsimmons (age 40) July/Sept.1879 quarter Preston district- http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
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Hello again
Many thanks to you both for your replies; I had just come across the 1881 ensus on the IGI and was looking for the Irish children's births, but thanks to you I have them.
I had also just come across the death entry for William in 1879 Preston. This fits in nicely as Maria Jane (the 2nd child so names, presumably the 1st one on the IGI died in childhood) was born and baptised 1879 St Mark, Preston (according to the Lancashire Online Parish Clerk Project).
I still haven't found Sarah Fitzsimmons' birth entry abt 1864 (from the 1881 census) and am also looking for an Annie Fitzsimmons born abt 1890 (she is 1 on the 1891 census in Preston).
Does anyone have any ideas as to how I may trace William and Catherine's marriage at all please?
Will now see if I can track them back to the 1871 census.
Thanks ...
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hi,
If they were Roman Catholic then Civil Registration did not start until 1864 and you will have to rely on Church records. Protestant Registrations started in 1845. I have found a record of a marriage in the Record Search Pilot site of www.familysearch.org for a William Fitzsummons (sic) in Gortin Tyrone in 1861 but I cannot match it to a Cath(e)rine Allen.
Regards
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There is a probable marriage in the index to civil registration in Gortin Registration district in 1861 (vol6 pg123) - spelling "Fitzsummons/Allin". http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/#p=collectionDetails;c=1408347
See here for ordering NI certs http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,383526.0.html
Best to phone Registrars Office in Omagh as they will probably provide an uncertified photocopy or transcription for a fraction of the certificate price, but will need exact date/location of marriage for cheapest rates. http://www.omagh.gov.uk/council_online/registration/
Hope this helps
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Hi
Thanks to you both for your help.
I phoned Omagh and spoke to a really helpful lady who rang me back within 10 mins and advised me to phone Strabane which I did and the lady there kindly found their marriage for me. All I have to do is send her a chq for £6 to get a verification (used for genealogy purposes and provides identical info on a certificate).
It would appear that my family came over to Lancashire, England somewhere between the birth of Maria Jane Fitzsimmons in 1869 and the birth of Catherine Fitzsimmons in 1872 as she was born in Preston.
I will have to see whether or not I can find the family in the 1871 England census.
I am really saddened to discover that the censuses for NI did not survive and wonder how I can go about tracing further back past Catherine & William (once I have received the details of the fathers from the verification). Does anyone have any suggetions please?
Thanks in anticipation ...
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The marriage details will include residences of bride and groom at the time of the marriage (which may not be where they were born or where their families lived). Also, marriages usually take place in bride's church so your next step might be to search for existing church records.
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Thanks, hopefully should have those details sometime next week so I will look forward to the next part of the trail.
Just as a matter of interest, which Parish does Gortin fall within please?
Thanks ...
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Hi,
There are three areas known as Gortin in Co. Tyrone but the one you are looking for, near Newtownstewart, is in the parish of BODONEY LOWER.
REgards
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Thank you Kingskerswell.
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Hi
Am concerned a bit about the Marriage veriification I will receive as I have just been on a PPV site and got the details from there and it does not give any other details other than William Fitzsimmons, Farmer, Kiltymore and Catherine Anne Allin (Allen) of Corrick. In the notes section here is a bit about Corrick Meeting House Parish of Upper Bodoney but there are no other details at all. Is it still best for me to go ahead and get the marriage verification direct from Strabane? I don't understand why the parents' details are missing ???
Have also googled Kiltymore (nothing at all I can come up with) and Corrick (would like to know where these 2 places are/were)
Anyone got any suggestions please?
Thanks in anticipation ...
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a Civil marriage cert (using the references akanex2 mentioned) will usually include father's names, and occupations - see : Details on a Marriage Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html)
Shane
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Corrick Presbyterian Church is in the townland of Upper Badoney and is sometimes known as Badoney Presbyterian Church. Rev. Samuel Black was minister there 1850-1884.
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Thanks to you both; will ring the lady again at Strabane and ask her if she can confirm that I will get all the details on the marriage verification (ie the parents names etc) and will let you know the outcome.
I have googled Corrick Presbyterian Church and found some photos on line; will continue looking for more information.
Thanks again
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Hi
Have just received the verification this morning and the Registrar tells me that the Register books for Corrick Meeting House were destroyed by fire.
However, the verification certificate confirms the fathers as Wm. Fitzsimmons, farmer and Samuel Allin (Allen), Farmer. William Fitzsimmons was residing at BEAUGHS and Catherine, CORRICK.
I know, thanks to the above messages, where Corrick is but does anyone have any idea where Beaughs might be please?
Should I post a new thread for Beaughs do you think?
Also, where do I go from here - not sure as I am very new to Irish Ancestry.
Thanks in anticipation ...
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Hi
I have a marriage verification from which I have the father's name of the bride as Samuel Allin (although it should probably read Allen) and he is noted as a farmer. The marriage was in 1861, Corrick.
I have searched the Griffiths valuations available on the web but can't find any more information at all.
Also on the veification is Wm Fitzsimmons father of Wm Fitzsimmons, farmer, residing at Beaughs. Now I am not sure whether this place is in Tyrone as I cant find anything on it all. Perhaps it is now spelt differently?
Can someone please point me in the right direction as I am very new to Irish ancestry and would like to discover more about Samuel Allen and William Fitxsimmons as they are my 4th gt grandfathers.
Thanks in anticipation ...
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Hi,
I think that the areas you are Looking for are Corick and Beagh. There are several areas called Beath in Co. Tyrone but one of them is very close to Clogher as is Corick.
Regards
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Hi Kingskerswell
Thanks for your msg.
Can you please advise when looking at the Griffiths Valuation if I should be looking for Clogher and the surnames I am looking for as I am a little confused, or should I be looking for Corick and Beagh?
Also, I had started my previous post this morning as a new topic (hence the change of the subject heading) but it seems to have been incorporated somehow into my previous topic message and I dont understand how this could have happened, unless of course, a Moderator has merged the 2 topics together? I don't mind at all, just wondered why this had happened? I thought it was best to start a new topic as it wasnt related to my original posting regarding Newtonstewart.
Thanks in anticipation ...
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Hi,
I was also confused by finding the posts had been merged. As for Griffiths, I tend to look up the Townlands as the parish, Clogher, would be a little long. However I have looked briefly through the names in both townlands which I mentioned and did not find your names. I also looked for Fitzsimmons in the county of Tyrone and found only one. However on another site I found a marriage of a William Fitzsimmons to Sarah Jane Skelton in Killyman Church of Ireland, Dungannon on 9 Jan 1846. I do not know of any connection to your ancestors.
Regards
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I merged the two threads together as they concern Fitzsimmons and Allen families - this way people won't have to keep checking both threads but I've now renamed the thread to make it clearer.
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Hi
Firstly, thanks, aghadowey for clarifying that the threads had been merged and named; at least I know I wasn't going mad as I questioned myself as to whether or not I had in fact started a new thread ;D
Kingskerswell, thanks for your msg; I too have look for both surnames on Griffiths but haven't come up with anything. Since the marriage I have was in 1861, the earlier marriage in 1846 may not be related to my families, but then what was the age you could marry in Ireland, was it the same as in England?
I guess I am not going to get very far at all with my Irish roots which is a shame because I always knew I had Irish in me and I was really thrilled to discover it a couple of weeks ago. I am solely reliant upon the internet as my illhealth prevents me from travelling at present.
Thanks in anticipation ...
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Just checked the Griffiths to see if I could find any reference for the witnesses given on the verification; John McNichol (nothing found) and Moses Kilpatrick (found ref for Gortin 1859 which presumably means this was him) but it has the Landlord as Chas Jn Gardiner (in chancery). What does in chancery mean please? Checking the relating map it has the word Beagh on it so I must be in the right area.
Thanks in anticipation ...
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... What does in chancery mean please? ...
'In Chancery: The name of the reputed proprietor of a holding in litigation in the Court of Chancery.'
See - http://www.deliapublications.com/More2Griffith.htm
if I remember correctly this means that the property ownership is pending the outcome of legal action , usually related to a will.
Shane
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Hi shanew147
Thanks for the explanation.
I havent been able to find any information on line at all relating to these 2 families in Tyrone.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do now or is this a dead end? I do hope not!
Thanks in anticipation ...
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Hi again
I have been able to progress with my Fitzsimmons family who moved to Preston, thanks to the help of fellow RCs.
I did wonder whether anyone knows the location of the local burial ground relating to Gortin and surrounding areas and if there are any monumental inscriptions which may help me with my quest -- I am determined to progress my tree in Ireland! ;D
Alsio, would it be possible that my Fitzsimmons and Allen family left Wills and if so, where would I be able to search for them on the internet?
As I have previously said, I do not know anything at all about tracing Irish ancestry so any assistance anyone can give me would be really great!
Thanks in anticipation ...
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Will Extracts are on PRONI website-
www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/will_calendars.htm
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Hi
Thanks for that; haven't found any relevant items yet but will keep checking as it appears it is being updated all the time.
Still wondering about the local burial ground for Gortin and MIs.
Thanks in anticipation ...
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Julia,
I was just reading over your postings regarding looking at Griffith's Valuation. I can tell you for 100% sure there are mistakes in the online versions. My own Fitzsimons does not appear there and it is on the microfilmed copy. So perhaps yours would also be found on microfilm.
You mentioned Newtonstewart at one point. I know there was a Fitzsimons there as I sent for a death certificate thinking it was my James and it wasn't him. It was another James who was a bachelor. Apparently my James and his wife's deaths were not registered. With the exception of one son and the spinster daughter, the other children left for North America. One to the states and my branch to Canada.
Paddy
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Not sure what you mean by 'microfilmed copy' but this site has scanned images of the actual pages-
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
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Hello Aghadowey,
I'm talking about the microfilmed copies of the original records made by the Church of Latter Day Saints. I looked at the copies of the originals at my local LDS library and printed a copy. It has been several years since I've searched the online records so just went to the link you kindly posted and entered my information. Sure enough, it is telling me that my James Fitzsimons is not in the record.
Perhaps I was exaggerating by saying missing records, but I know for sure there is one. Thanks for posting the link.
Paddy
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There's a James Fitzsimons in Carnony and a James Fitzsimmons in Donaghmore in Co.Tyrone but the above site also allows searches by place.
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Apologies, my mistake. I went back and tried again and found that I had entered too much information. When I left out the Barony and just put the parish I got a result. Thanks.
Paddy
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It has been a while since we have corresponded. I continue to try to connect my Fitzsimons family to others in the general area of Cappagh Parish. I came across this today and don't know if you already have the information or not, so send it along in case you do not.
From Familysearch.org
Marriage of William Fitzsummons to Cathrin Ann Allin, 29 May 1861, Upper Badoney, Tyrone, Ire. Father of the groom William Fitzsummons. Father of the bride, Samuel Allin.
I wonder if your William could be a son of the following couple:
January 9 1846 FITZSIMONS
SKELTON WILLIAM FITZSIMONS f b farmer Eglish F=not stated and dead
&
SARAH JANE SKELTON 17 s Parish of Armagh F=THOMAS SKELTON farmer
W=JAMES KERR SKELTON & WILLIAM HAYES
I have been looking at them as possibly connecting to my family. I recently found a location earlier than Carnony. That being Ballyreagh, Tyr. on the border with County Armagh. This would put my man in close proximity to William and Sarah. I also know that my great aunt said she had an uncle Will and aunt Sarah. This is all speculation and I may not ever be able to prove it.
An aside, my brother has his Fitzsimons DNA on Ancestry. If you have a Fitzsimons from your line that may help prove a link. We have had a couple of hits.
Paddy