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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: jenimac on Wednesday 24 March 10 20:07 GMT (UK)
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I have been given an intriguing magazine article written in the 1970's, where my grandmother's brother is interviewed and claims his grandfather, Robert Ogilvie Scott, was somehow connected to the Scott family of Buccleuch? The frustrating thing is he does not name his parents but I did find a local family tree - Botha - where his parents are named James Scott and Jane Ogilvie .
In the interview he recalls his mother talking about the family history where both parents died young and Robert and his 2 brothers were raised by his mother's sisters in Peebleshire- one of which was married to a member of the Coats family (of thread fame). It seems that after the Napoleonic wars it was decided to send the 3 boys to the colonies to learn farming and that's how my ancestor arrived here in South Africa in 1821. He apparently was sent to work for George Rex of Knysna, which he did for 5 years before going it alone and in 1841 he married Martha Botha and settled in the George area. I have not verified anything other than his name and his South African descendants.
I need help with this one - just the romantic dreaming of an old man or possibly some shred of truth? How would I go about verifying anything? There are a few others details about some spoons and a table with a crest. I have a horrible feeling that this will be another brick wall in Scotland. :-\
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hi jenimac :)
do you know when and how old robert ogilvie scott was when he died ?
do you know the names of his 2 brothers ?
ev
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By the early 19th century, the Dukes of Buccleuch were using three surnames: Montagu Douglas Soctt, but no Ogilvie. Perhaps he worked for him?
Nell
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The OPR's on SP have 2 baptism records
26/03/1804 SCOTT ROBERT OGILVEY son of JAMES SCOTT and BEATRICE OGILVEY at ASHKIRK /SELKIRK )
15/08/1795 SCOTT ROBERT OGILVY son of JAMES SCOTT and ISABELLA OGILVY at BENHOLM /KINCARDINE
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Hi ev
Robert Ogilvie Scott was born in Scotland 1799/1800 and arrived in South Africa around 1821. He remained here for the rest of his life and died about 1873(I need to verify these dates as I sourced them from the magazine article) He had 5 sons James, Marthinus (his father-in-law's name), Robert, Thomas and Frank so it's possible his brother's had those names. He seems to have been known as Robert Ogilvie always, as all the references to him include the 'Ogilvie'. The article refers to the family home being in Peebles.
This is just the beginning and almost everything is unsubstantiated. I am just hoping someone might find a link between those names somewhere.
thanks Jenny
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2 other sons registered to the Selkirk couple
27/06/1801 SCOTT THOMAS son of JAMES SCOTT/BEAUTRIX OGILVEY ASHKIRK /SELKIRK
07/08/1806 SCOTT WILLIAM son of JAMES SCOTT/BEAUTRIX OGILVEY ASHKIRK /SELKIRK
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Gosh that sounds promising, thanks sancti. It is getting very late here so I am going to have to continue tomorrow. I really do appreciate everyone's help
Jenny
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I found this census record for 1841
James Scott 62 Ag Lab
Beatrix Scott 62
Interestingly the address given as WATERLOO, Lauder, Berwickshire
I can't see any mention of Robert Ogilvy Scott in 1841
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Hi Sancti, thanks for the lookups. I have downloaded a Beatrice/James Scott birth for Robert Ogilvey and I am now trying to establish whether he is the correct Robert.
I appreciate your help
thanks
Jenny
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jenimac I have recently trancribed Ashkirk cemetery where there is an Ogilvie plot with seven headstones. One might interest you re Duke of Buccleuch. it reads" Thomas Elliot Ogilvie of Chesters born at Branzholm 19-11-1757 died at Chesters 4-1-1831 also Hannah Dashwood his wife born 19-1-1761 died in Edinburgh 6-7-1831 also William Ogilvie of Chesters their son born in Madras 6-9-1785 died at Chesters 26-5-1876 CHAMBERLAIN TO HIS GRACE THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH FROM 1836-1876, a devoted husband, a loving father and trusty friend also of Alexina Falconar his wife born at Woodcut 10-3-1795 died at Chesters 14-3-1884.
It may or not be a connection . Therer are no Scotts/Ogilvie families buried in Ashkirk.
The above Ogilvie plot with digital photographs is now available on the Ashkirk Cd from www.selkirkshireantiquariansociety.co.uk
alan
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jenimac I checked Scotlands people- ther are 2 Scotts/ogilvie marriages
1. Alex Scott/ Beatrix ogilvie married St andrews 20-4- 1676
and nearer here James Scott/Beatrix Ogilvie married Cavers outside Hawick and near Ashkirk married 5-3-1800
alan
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Hi Alan,
Thanks so much for the lookups - much appreciated and enlightening. I am leaning towards the Beatrice/Beatrix Ogilvie and James Scott pair but still have a lot more names and dates to confirm.
I know absolutely that his name was Robert Ogilvie Scott with a Scott father and Ogilvie mother. The forenames are not mentioned in the newspaper article I read (written in afrikaans which is also giving me headaches :)) but I did find the names James and Jane on a South African family tree of the Botha family as Robert married a Botha. I have tried to contact the owner of the tree but had no joy.
I am thinking of trying to search every marriage between a Scott and an Ogilvie and try narrow the names down that way but haven't quite mastered the best search technique with the spelling variations of Ogilvie. I have the Beatrice Ogilvie/James Scott birth record for Robert for 1804 which would make him 17 and not 21 when he was sent to South Africa. Still lots of uncertainties.
Regards Jenny
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Hi Jenny,
I read your post on the Roxburghshire board and it now has a redirect to here. [http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=454620.new]
Regarding "Mount Pleasant" this link [http://www.maxwellancestry.com/census/41address.aspx] will take you to a website where you can search the census by address and click to see the place on a map. In 1841 there appears to be only one "Mount Pleasant" in Roxburghshire. I don’t know if this is the right place. A family of White’s are living there but if Beatrice and James died when the children where young anybody could be living in "Mount Pleasant" by that time.
Here is the census entry I’m talking about: http://www.maxwellancestry.com/census/41transcript.aspx?houseid=79906024
Next to “Current Map/Satellite” click “Display Map”
If I find anything else I will let you know.
Emma
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Thanks so much Emma, a wonderful tool
Jenny
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My name is Ester Johanne Pettersen, (Hester Johanna SCOTT). I have been living in Norway the last 35 years, born in Cape Town and moved to Port Elizabeth when I was a youngster, maybe one or two years old. I got married to a Norwegian man in Durban for 34 years ago and then moved permanent to Norway.
Well the reason why I am writing is because I see we are searching for the same people,, Robert Ogilvie Scott born in Scotland 28.December 1799 (my great great grandfather). his parents James Scott was born in Est in 1775, James married Jane Ogilvie (MRIN:14504) so you are right. Another name for Jane can possibly be JUNE Ogilvie.
My grandfather`s name is Robert Ogilvie Scott and he was the son of Marthinus Christoffel SCOTT and Magdalena Elizabeth Botha. He married Hetta Johanna Theron. Their children Magdalena Elizabeth 1920, Marthinus Christoffel Scott 1926 (MY FATHER), Beatrice, Tossie, Robert Ogilvie Scott 1933 (MY UNCLE).
Please let me hear from you, I have been doing family research for some years but never got any further than to James Scott and Jane Ogilvie. I am interested to find out where my great great grandfather is buried in George.
Best of luck further and lets hope we both can get further in our research as I am very interested.
Best regards from Norway,
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Hi Kleintjie,
What a wonderful surprise to finally find someone else searching for my ancestor. :)
my brother and I have a fair bit of info regarding Robert Ogilvie Scott in South Africa but as yet have not managed to prove his birth in Scotland. I have a few promising births in Scotland and there is one with James Scott and Beatrice Ogilvey as the parents of a Robert Ogilvey Scott but the birth date is 1805 which is 5 years out. I could never find a link between that Beatrice Ogilvey and the Jane Ogilvie recorded on Robert's death certificate but I see your family names include Beatrice which sounds very promising.
I don't know how much you have on the SA family tree so please let me know if you would like any further details and I will happily pass them on. if you can speak afrikaans, I can also forward a copy of an article written in an afrikaans magazine about Robert Ogilvie Scott in 1970
Look forward to exchanging lots more family info :) Kind regards Jenny
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Hi Jenny, How nice hearing from you. Please let me know what your father`s name as well as your grandfather and I will see what I have on him or should I say what I can help with. I am a "Boer" and my language is Afrikaans, so please forward anything of interesting, I will apreciate it very much. I also have something for you to read that is from London news re: Robert Ogilvie SCOTT, May 1836.
If you have any e.mail adresse or are on Facebook I would appreciate it if you could try to get it to me and we can keep in contact for always as I feel we are somewhere related.
If Robert Ogilvie SCOTT`s mother was Jane Ogilvie and father James Scott they must be from the 1770`s. On all of my search they are named as his parents, so this Beatrize or Beatrice must be someone else connected to this family. I also have Robert Ogilvie Scott as the only child of James and Jane.Let`s hope to hear from you soon. Regards from Ester.
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hallo Ester,
I too am an Afrikaner living 'elsewhere' ... in my case, the west coast of the USA. I've had a hard time researching my Scott ancestry in Scotland until tonight, when I googled and found this RootsChat site and your posting about our joint ancestor. I am the daughter of Jane Margaret Gericke, whose father was Robert Ogilvie Gericke, and in turn his mother was Jane Margaret Scott who was the daughter of Robert Ogilvie Scott.
Is it allowed for me to give you my email address so that you can write me directly? I will hold off until I know. I would just love to have a copy of the article uou mentioned, the one about Robert Ogilvie Scott. For some reason I identify much more with my mother's side of the family, and particularly the Scottish connection, than with my father's mostly German side.
Hoping to hear from you! my real name is Delina
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Hi Delina,
I saw your post to Ester but as I am the one who started this topic "Robert Ogilvie Scott" I hope you don't mind if I butt in :)
My line is through my grandmother, Sarah Botha, whose mother, Sarah Maria Sophia Scott, was the eldest daughter of Robert Ogilvie Scott.
I have the Afrikaans article on Robert Ogilvie Scott and will happily send it to you. (The man interviewed in the article was my Gran's brother, John Botha)
If you make 3 posts in Rootschat you will then be able to ps me your email address and I will send you same.
I have been researching him for ages and I am fairly convinced I have found the right family in Scotland (James Scott and Jean/Jane Ogilvie) but cannot find conclusive evidence of his birth but am willing to pass on whatever I have. I would really appreciate ANY snippet of information you might have heard about him - perhaps a story your grandfather might have heard from his mother which just might fill in a gap in my research. It is always great to meet a new relative, no matter how distantly connected :)
Jenny
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Hi jennimac,
There is a Robert Scott born to James Scott and Jean Ogilvie on IGI born in Ewes, Dumfriesshire on 15 Dec 1789, baptised 24 Jan 1790. This could be about 30 miles from Peebleshire, we will need to try find Jean Ogilvie's sisters in Peebleshire.
Tom
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Hi Tom,
Thanks for that. That is the family I am pretty sure is his but our South African records state he was born 1799/1800. I have wondered whether he lied about his age because he married a much younger woman in South Africa but that is just my supposition. His last child was born (according to records I have found) in 1869 which would make him 80-ish when the child was conceived :o but for all we know that chilld could have been a child of one of his own children and they were raising him. So many IF's!
I have been told by a local Genealogist in that area (Ewes) that the records weren't complete so I am also working on the possibility that the Robert born in 1789 could have died and my Robert was named for him. I just hope that one day something else will turn up. :)
Jenny
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hi Jenny,
of course I don't mind you contributing! I read that Esther speaks Afrikaans and I do too, so thought to ask her for the Afrikaans articles.
Perhaps we can spot a family likeness if we post photos? I have a copy of the wedding photo when my maternal grandmother Delina Margaretha Olwage got married to Robert Ogilvie Gericke (my grandfather). I have never seen any photos of my grandfather's mother (Jane Margaret Scott), father, or siblings. Do you have any photos?
Delina in Oregon, U.S.A.
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Jenny and Esther,
my mother used to refer to a connection to George Rex (George and Knysna area) ... I've read elsewhere that Robert Ogilvie Scott apparently farmed on a farm owned by George Rex? the area around George definitely featured big in my ancestry.
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Jenny and Esther,
my mother used to refer to a connection to George Rex (George and Knysna area) ... I've read elsewhere that Robert Ogilvie Scott apparently farmed on a farm owned by George Rex? the area around George definitely featured big in my ancestry.
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Robert Ogilvie Scott was the grandfather of my grandfather Robert Ogilvie Gericke. I was fortunate to go to the national archives in Cape Town and found a few interesting facts about Robert Ogilvie Scott. His Death Notice states only that he was born in Scotland, and his parents were James Scott and Jane Ogilvie Scott. When he died on 4th May 1873 he was 73 years 4 months and 6 days old. He was still married and died at his house in "George Town". His occupation is stated as "farmer and wagon maker".
Eight children are mentioned on the Death Notice: James Robert, Sarah Maria Sophia, Marthinus Christoffel, Jane Margaret, Robert Ogilvie, Thomas Johannes, Maria Elizabeth and Adam Francis. He left property consisting of "household furniture, live stock, farming implements and land". His wife signed his Death Notice with a X. His estate amounted to £1045.
A book by Peter Philip "British Residents at the Cape" mentions that he was employed by George Rex in January 1819 in Knysna. On 28 May 1821 he was granted permission to stay on in the Cape Colony. He married Martha Catharina Botha (19 years old) in George on 13th May 1841.
Another interesting piece was found in the Archives, CO 3982:140 and CO 3990:85. Robert Ogilvie Scott agreed to pay the fine of a certain John Hestler. Hestler was a man older than 70 years and was fined £1 or "hard labour". However 3 days after Scott had paid this fine, Hestler died. Scott then wrote to the authorities asking for the reimbursement of the fine (Scottish?)
Other documents referring to Scott state that he was also employed as pound master and gaoler. When his widow died on 6th April 1882 her Death Notice states that she died at "her residence Mount Pleasant" and her property as "moveable and immoveable"
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Hi Vonney,
It's always good to hear of others researching Robert Ogilvie Scott.
I have the book " British Residents etc" and wondered if you had noticed the info under Robert Scott " 10.5.22 PL (permission to leave) in "Garland" to England?
I have often wondered why he took so long to marry (1841) and whether he had in fact returned to Scotland for a period before coming back. I remember seeing those documents at the Cape archives but there does seem to be a gap between his arrival in 1819/21 and him first appearing in any records in the 30's. Do you have any actual dates on him during the period before he married?
Jenny
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Hi Jenimac
Yes, I am aware of him leaving the Cape in the Garland. Unfortunately I was not able to get anything for the dates you mentioned. It is such a pity that the people who could perhaps have given us some more information are here no longer.
I have also in vain tried to get some information of his previous life in Scotland and it seems to me as if information before 1800 is much more difficult to come by.
I am so glad I 'discovered' this website as it will enable me to learn more through what others already have uncovered!
Vonney
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Robert Ogilvie Scott was the grandfather of my grandfather Robert Ogilvie Gericke. I was fortunate to go to the national archives in Cape Town and found a few interesting facts about Robert Ogilvie Scott. His Death Notice states only that he was born in Scotland, and his parents were James Scott and Jane Ogilvie Scott. When he died on 4th May 1873 he was 73 years 4 months and 6 days old. He was still married and died at his house in "George Town". His occupation is stated as "farmer and wagon maker".
Eight children are mentioned on the Death Notice: James Robert, Sarah Maria Sophia, Marthinus Christoffel, Jane Margaret, Robert Ogilvie, Thomas Johannes, Maria Elizabeth and Adam Francis. He left property consisting of "household furniture, live stock, farming implements and land". His wife signed his Death Notice with a X. His estate amounted to £1045.
A book by Peter Philip "British Residents at the Cape" mentions that he was employed by George Rex in January 1819 in Knysna. On 28 May 1821 he was granted permission to stay on in the Cape Colony. He married Martha Catharina Botha (19 years old) in George on 13th May 1841.
Another interesting piece was found in the Archives, CO 3982:140 and CO 3990:85. Robert Ogilvie Scott agreed to pay the fine of a certain John Hestler. Hestler was a man older than 70 years and was fined £1 or "hard labour". However 3 days after Scott had paid this fine, Hestler died. Scott then wrote to the authorities asking for the reimbursement of the fine (Scottish?)
Other documents referring to Scott state that he was also employed as pound master and gaoler. When his widow died on 6th April 1882 her Death Notice states that she died at "her residence Mount Pleasant" and her property as "moveable and immoveable"
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Hi everyone,
To everyone researching Robert Ogilvie Scott in South Africa, I am more than 90% sure I have found his family in Scotland and I will happily pass on any information I can. My breakthrough came when DougNZ very kindly looked up and gave me details of a headstone in the Ewes Churchyard, Dumfriesshire which names his(Robert Ogilvie Scott) parents (james Scott and Jane Ogilvie) but also gives me 2 earlier generations and all the names match perfectly when applying the Scottish naming pattern to Robert's family in South Africa. I have been researching this family for years and now am conviced this is the family.
Regards
Jenny
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James Scott/Beatrix Ogilvie married Cavers outside Hawick and near Ashkirk married 5-3-1800
James Scott and Beautrix Ogilvey gave birth to a daughter Janet on 7 September 1802 in Ashkirk.
He was a tennant at Woollrigg (I think Wollrig Farmhouse or more likely Wollrig Cottage ).
I beleive this Janet went on to marry a David Brunton in Yarrow in 1824.
James Scott and Beautrix Ogilvey also had at least two sons, William and Thomas.
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Hi everyone,
To everyone researching Robert Ogilvie Scott in South Africa, I am more than 90% sure I have found his family in Scotland and I will happily pass on any information I can. My breakthrough came when DougNZ very kindly looked up and gave me details of a headstone in the Ewes Churchyard, Dumfriesshire which names his(Robert Ogilvie Scott) parents (james Scott and Jane Ogilvie) but also gives me 2 earlier generations and all the names match perfectly when applying the Scottish naming pattern to Robert's family in South Africa. I have been researching this family for years and now am conviced this is the family.
Regards
Jenny
60824#msg3160824 date=1273141945]
Hi Jenny,
I read your post on the Roxburghshire board and it now has a redirect to here. [http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=454620.new (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=454620.new)]
Regarding "Mount Pleasant" this link [http://www.maxwellancestry.com/census/41address.aspx (http://www.maxwellancestry.com/census/41address.aspx)] will take you to a website where you can search the census by address and click to see the place on a map. In 1841 there appears to be only one "Mount Pleasant" in Roxburghshire. I don’t know if this is the right place. A family of White’s are living there but if Beatrice and James died when the children where young anybody could be living in "Mount Pleasant" by that time.
Here is the census entry I’m talking about: http://www.maxwellancestry.com/census/41transcript.aspx?houseid=79906024
Next to “Current Map/Satellite” click “Display Map”
If I find anything else I will let you know.
Emma
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Thanks Emma. It was so kind of you to take the trouble to send those links which I find very interesting and quite possible they did live there at some stage but from all my research I can now only find the family at Ewes in Dumfriesshire. I believe there was a time when that part of Dumfriesshire was in Roxburghshire but from what I recall that was before Robert was born. The main thing is I have managed to find the family tombstone and from that a will dating back to 1734 with all his ancestors listed and I think that is as far back as I will be able to go so I am now concentrating on my other Scottish/Irish ancestor. :)
Kind regards
Jenny
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Please keep in touch and Can you Please send me a copy of the latest Scott graves of my family. I live in Norway and would appreciate it if you could send any info to me on my Email adr. *. Regards
*Moderator comment: personal e-mail address removed in accordance with RootsChat general practice to avoid others spamming or abusing it. Please use the personal message system to exchange personal e-mail addresses. Thanks
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Hi,
It would be a good idea to PM (Personal Message) your email address to Jenny as a moderator will remove your email address from the forum which is not allowed for reasons such as spam etc.
Annie
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Hi Jenny, Hope you can forward the tombstone of 1734 of the family to me. I will be so greatful for the info. Regards
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Hi
I have just started looking into my husband's family history. The Robert Ogilvie Scott (1799 - 1873) you are talking about was his GG grandfather. Robert's eldest son, James Robert Scott, was his G grandfather. I am struggling to find information about him. Anybody who can direct me somewhere?
Thank you
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9 March 2022. Hi there. My name is Deon Botha .I think you are referring to my grandfather who appeared in a Sarie magazine (South Africa) years ago. I tried to upload pictures of him and of the walking stick and 2 spoons I have and refereed to in the article,but with no success.
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file:///home/deon/Pictures/Outeniqua%2051%20_19_.jpg