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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => East Lothian (Haddingtonshire) => Topic started by: roselad on Saturday 27 March 10 22:07 GMT (UK)
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I am searching for particular information about James Annan Ramsay - born 17 February 1856, Lanark, Scotland. He was a lawyer in Edinburgh abt 1880 - 1894 [?] and apparently was shipped out to New Zealand by his family because he disgraced them when he committed some sort of crime. His family paid him a remittance to stay away and he was not allowed to practice law in New Zealand.
I am trying to research what his crime was and finding it very difficult as I am a Kiwi and the distance is a stumbling block.
Can anyone help me at all? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much.
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:)Hello All, My name is Peter Annan Ramsay and my great grandfather was the James Annan Ramsay on your post. He came to N.Z in 1881 and married Margaret Muirhead [widow] maiden name Lawson in 1894 at Portobello , Dunedin New Zealand. Margaret and John Muirhead had 8 children and John Muirhead died in 1891 and is buried in the Portobello Cemertery. James Annan Ramsay and Margaret Muirhead had 4 children. They are Alice Suttie Ramsay,Mary Horn Ramsay, Alexander Morison Ramsay and James Annan Ramsay my g grandfather.Feel free to contact me by email * as I have a family tree on the go at the moment on Ancestry.co.uk.
* Email address removed as against RootsChat Policy, on security. Please make 3 posts on forums, so you can use the Personal Message (PM) system.
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Hi Peter,
Welcome to RootsChat, wish you success with your searches. I was on Ancestry and think I saw your tree,gives James Annan Ramsay's birth as 17 Feb 1856 in Angus where Roselad's gives his James Annan Ramsay, same date in Lanarkshire. I have no doubt they are same person, maybe birth locations mixed up.
Roselad has an email notification sent to her email that you have replied to her post albeit an older one. So fingers crossed you get a reply soon.
Tom
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Cheers Tom, I have just come across your site today and it looks very interesting, so I hope I have some time over the holiday to look further. Regards Peter
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Hi Peter,
Yes, I am sure you will enjoy it, just one more post and you can use the Personal Message (PM) system to pass email addresses, phone numbers etc.
Did you have a birth certificate for James Annan Ramsay, I am having difficulty pinning it down. I have searched on ScotlandPeoples website and the LDS, and no luck.
Tom
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Hi All
Likely this birth entry on the index? https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F772-7Z6
Some possible siblings here:
Mary Horn Ramsay https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XB6K-JHM
Alison Catharine Ramsay https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XB62-PTY
Struggle with the 1861 census (think you have too Peter as it is not on your tree) but info for others, family in 1851 which you have:
James Ramsay 26 Joint Editor Of Arbroath Guide b. St.vigeans, Forfarshire
Mary Ramsay 19 b. Edinburgh, Midlothian
Mary H Ramsay 10 Months
Mary Jamieson 21 servant
Address: Lillies Wynd, St Vigeans
Monica :)
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Hi Monica,
That looks like him indeed. I had hoped the middle name was used and it is. On SP the middle name"Annan" is not used, which threw me off a bit. There are 9 James Ramsay's born in 1856, 2 of them in Angus and 1 in Lanark, so they may have registered the birth in father and mother's parishes. It maybe that Peter already has the certificate, so I will not try and guess which one it is.
Tom
PS Merry Xmas to you and your family
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Hi All,
I have found a James Ramsay 5yo in the 1861 census in Lanark, staying with his aunt and uncle.
I think the Arman should be Annan. Mary H Ramsay could be his sister Mary Horn Ramsay. His uncle is a "Writer" at 52 Wellgate Street, Lanark.
John Arman 32
Mary Ramsay 29
James Arman 28
James Arman Junr 22
Mary H Ramsay 10
James Ramsay 5
Also in 1871 he is still with his aunt and uncle in Castlegate, Lanark.
John Annan 42
Mary Annan 39
Thomas Annan 33
James Annan 32
Mary Ann Ramsay 21
James Ramsay 15
Maria Carduch 22
Tom
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Thanks Tom...same to you and yours :)
This family are so hard to find! Finally found James and sister in 1861...I think! As transcribed.
John Arman 32 writer (solicitor in Scottish terms) b. St Cuthberts, Midlothian
Mary Ramsay 29 sister b. St Cuthberts, Midlothian
James Arman 28 brother Auctioneer b. St Cuthberts, Midlothian
James Arman Junr 22 cousin, General Clerk b. England
Mary H Ramsay 10 niece b. St Vigeans, Forfarshire
James Ramsay 5 nephew b. Lanark, Lanark
Address: 52 Wellgate St, Lanark, Lanarkshire
Peter, original census image from SP would help as always for clarity and accuracy.
You show Mary Annan's death in 1874 and James Ramsay Snr in 1880 on your tree. Have you confirmed all through original certs?
Monica
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Sorry Tom...missed the red note that you had already posted :-\
I get the feeling that maybe something happened with the marriage between Mary Annan and James Ramsay? I think the Mary Annan in 1871 is Mary Ramsay? The original image would show marital status. Death certs would help for confirmation which hopefully Peter has?
Monica
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Peter already has James' eldest sister Mary and her marriage details here http://genforum.genealogy.com/gilroy/messages/156.html which will help to confirm the detail.
I am guessing that on her 1872 marriage, father and mother still showed as alive? Father's occupation then was what?
Monica
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Here is James Ramsay. 1841. with his parents.
Arbroath, Angus,
Address, Lillies Wynd.
Ramsay James, M. age 55 years, Linen Hand Loom Weaver, born Angus,
Alice Ramsay, F. age 40 years, born Angus,
James Ramsay, M. age 15 years, Clerk, born Angus.
His Parents James Ramsay, married Alison Suttie, 5/Sep/1823, Arbroath, Angus,
They had one child James Ramsay, born 24/Aug/1824. Saint Vigeans, Angus.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Here is James Ramsay's, mother 1881.
Address, Greenbank, Arbroath, Angus.
Alison Ramsay, Head, Annuitant, W. age 85 years, F. born Arbroath, Angus.
The address Greenbank, is flanked on both sides by Lillies Wynd, which was their address in 1841.
So parents lived there for at least 40 years.
Alison Suttie Ramsay, died 1882, aged 86 years, St. Vigeans, Arbroath.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Mary Annan, born 16/April/1831. to parents James Annan, and Mary Horn, this couple were married 24/April/1825. Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, they had a few children, some who moved to Lanark.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Here is the 1881. census for Mary Horn Ramsay, who married Edward Gilroy.
Address 8 West Graham, Street, Glasgow.
Mary H. Gilroy, Wife (Head) M. age 30 years, F. born Arbroath, Forfar,
Robert B Spence, boarder, Mechanical Engineer, U. age 34 years, M. born Pathhead, Fife,
Jessie Mc Gregor, Servant, Dom Ser. U. age 31 years, F. born Glenorchy, Argyll.
The Gilroy, family were Brewers.
Alas poor Edward Gilroy, is in a sanitorium in 1881.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Jonn, I have struggled with James Ramsay Snr for 1861 & 1871. Someone (not Peter) on their a/try tree has James Snr's death as being on 10 Dec 1880 in St. Georges Edinburgh. If correct, where was he for the previous decades :-\
Monica
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Monica, alas the last sighting i have for him is 1841. i thought he must have passed away before 1851.
Do you have him with Allison, or Alice, as she is sometimes referred to.
Regards,
Jonn.
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The only sighting I have managed to find of James Snr so far was from 1851 with his new young wife:
James Ramsay 26 Joint Editor Of Arbroath Guide b. St.vigeans, Forfarshire
Nothing after. Then we have, as Tom has found, wife Mary with her Annan family in 1861 & 1871 in Lanarkshire.
Ignoring for now the mysterious rogue stories re James Jnr heading off to NZ in time to marry for 1881. With his uncle, John Annan showing as writer in 1861 and then James Ramsay Jnr showing as a 15 yr old Commercial Apprentice, all sort of fits well so far with main story don't you think?
Monica
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Hello Monica, sorry i thought you were talking about James Ramsay's, father also James, husband of Alison Suttie.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Hi All, The only document that I have is a copy of the marriage certificate of James Annan Ramsay to Margaret Ann Muirhead in 1894. In this it has James Annan Ramsay as a 37 year old fisherman and his parents James as a Journalist and his mother Mary maiden name Annan, Lanarkshire Scotland. Margaret Ann Muirhead as a 34 year old widow whose parents are Charles Lawson,a Tailor and Margaret Ann Lawson, but maiden name as not known, they have her birthplace as Yorkshire England.
If you look on the Dunedin City Councils, Cemeteries Search site you will be able to find their death and burial records.I hope this is of some help. My father James Annan Ramsay died 10th November 1995 and his father of the same name died on 13th February 1960 and his second wife Sarah Agnes Jane [Currie] Ramsay ashes are buried with him.The other James Annan died 26th March 1921. and is buried with Margaret Ann who died 29th June 1931.Also in the plot are Charles Lawson and David Muirhead Regards Peter Annan Ramsay
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Hi All,
The Scotsman reported the marriage of J. S. Ramsay, of the "Arbroath Guide" to Mary Annan, eldest daughter of James Annan, the Lanark Town Clerk, on 19th June 1849.
It also reported birth of a daughter on 19 December 1852 to the wife of J.S. Ramsay of the "Arbroath Guide"
No report of J S Ramsays death though.
Tom
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Still a puzzle as to what happened re James Jnr. isn't.
There is a death in Edinburgh for James Suttie Ramsay in 1880. Like you Tom, can't see a death report for him (although I always get frustrated the Scotsman search engine :-\).
I think this is James snr in 1871, transcribed as Janes:
Helen Thomson 58
William J Mutch 13
James R Dickie 34
William Short 31
John Hutson 16
Janes S Ramsey 46, lodger, Newpper Winter & Agent (newspaper writer and agent?) b. St Virginia (should read St Vigeans), forfarshire
Address: 3 St Leonards Lane, Edinburgh
Monica
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Hi Peter,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Sadly Roselad's notifications have bounced back to us as the email address no longer exists :'( I have not been unable to find a new address for Roselad....
Regards
Sarah :)