RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: chinakay on Friday 09 April 10 04:57 BST (UK)
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I just have to post this where it will be appreciated... :D
I'm doing a friend's family tree. Her grandparents came from Quebec, so I've been knee-deep in French PR pages for weeks.
Tonight I hit the motherlode.
Remember Zacharie Cloutier? When the Drouin index went on line there was a news story, still being used as advertising on Ancestry, about how Celine Dion, Madonna, Camilla, Hillary Clinton and Angelina Jolie all had a common ancestor, a humble carpenter who sailed from France in 1634 to Quebec where he, evidently, had a lot of children.
Well, I just hit Zacharie.
Even better, guess who Zacharie's daughter Anne married? Robert Drouin. Yup, Drouin :D
So, I'm kind of spinning in happy circles :D
I know coming to New France in the 1600s really narrows the gene pool. There just weren't that many Europeans in Quebec and they all married each other.
But I don't care right now ;D ;D
Cheers,
China
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Hi China - to see how really small this gene pool was, consider this (which I am sure you have seen) regarding Zach's dau Anne:
• Anne: baptized on January 19th, 1626 in Mortagne, she was only eleven and a half when she
married Robert Drouin on July 12th, 1637 in Québec city. They had signed a marriage
contract a year before on July 26th, 1636 in the house of the Seigneur Robert Giffard. Jean
Guyon acting as a private notary wrote the contract. Robert Drouin was 28 years old at the
time. Living together would be out of question for a while because of Anne’s young age.
However, eligible women were so rare that Drouin did not want to risk not finding a wife.
The contract stipulated that the spouses would spend the first three years of their married life
under Zacharie’s roof. On the other hand, Zacharie and Sainte agreed to feed them during
that time. This was the first notarized act in Canada. Anne carried child six times and gave
birth for the first time at age 15; three of her babies were stillborn. She died at age 22 on
February 4th, 1648 and was buried the next day in Québec city. Robert Drouin married again
with the widow Marie Chapelier on November 29th, 1649 in Québec city and they had eight
other children. He died in Château-Richer on June 1st, 1685.
Nick
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Hello China
You might find this immigration of women, les Fille du Roi, interesting as I did. A result from such early marriages as Annes:
http://www.acadian-home.org/kings-daughters-1.html
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~agrandchildsheritage/fillesduroi.html
Linda
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Amazing China....what a find.
I'm unfortunately a new Canadian so I won't get to have as much fun as you are having now ;D
mab
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Well found China!
Yeeee Haaaw ;D
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Hi China - to see how really small this gene pool was, consider this (which I am sure you have seen) regarding Zach's dau Anne:
• Anne: baptized on January 19th, 1626 in Mortagne, she was only eleven and a half when she
married Robert Drouin on July 12th, 1637 in Québec city. They had signed a marriage
contract a year before on July 26th, 1636 in the house of the Seigneur Robert Giffard. Jean
Guyon acting as a private notary wrote the contract. Robert Drouin was 28 years old at the
time. Living together would be out of question for a while because of Anne’s young age.
However, eligible women were so rare that Drouin did not want to risk not finding a wife.
The contract stipulated that the spouses would spend the first three years of their married life
under Zacharie’s roof. On the other hand, Zacharie and Sainte agreed to feed them during
that time. This was the first notarized act in Canada. Anne carried child six times and gave
birth for the first time at age 15; three of her babies were stillborn. She died at age 22 on
February 4th, 1648 and was buried the next day in Québec city. Robert Drouin married again
with the widow Marie Chapelier on November 29th, 1649 in Québec city and they had eight
other children. He died in Château-Richer on June 1st, 1685.
Nick
Hi Nick...I'd seen it but apparently an abridged version...thanks for this. It really points out part of the hardship of living in early New France. Of course marriage wasn't, in those days, merely a matter of sharing a bed. It was a partnership for survival. Women and men had different skill sets.
There was a CNN story just the other day about a girl in Yemen who died after being married at 12 years old and then not treated with care by her husband.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/04/09/yemen.child.bride.death/index.html?npt=NP1
Cheers,
China
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Amazing China....what a find.
I'm unfortunately a new Canadian so I won't get to have as much fun as you are having now ;D
mab
It's still your country now, mab...you can start having fun anytime :D
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Well found China!
Yeeee Haaaw ;D
Found another good one a couple of days ago. I remember learning in school of the Lachine Massacre in 1689...a large force of Iroquois snuck up on the little settlement at Lachine and killed or kidnapped most of them. My friend's gggggggwhatever-grandfather was captured and eaten by them :o
They probably don't even teach about the incident in school anymore...politically incorrect...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachine_massacre
Cheers,
China
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Hello China
You might find this immigration of women, les Fille du Roi, interesting as I did. A result from such early marriages as Annes:
http://www.acadian-home.org/kings-daughters-1.html
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~agrandchildsheritage/fillesduroi.html
Linda
Hi Linda, thanks for these, I've been looking at quite a few sites. I have the second one bookmarked. Here's another good one, it's in French but pretty simple to read:
http://www.migrations.fr/700fillesroy.htm
Cheers,
China
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Tres bien China!!
Karen
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Just found another triumph :D
Zacharie originally arrived in New France on July 7th, 1619, on board the St Etienne.
He was indentured to stay for 3 years and then return to France. He did. Then he came back to Canada with his family and settled permanently.
The famous Mayflower arrived at Plymouth Rock in Massachusetts November 21st, 1620. The Mayflower Society is a loose organization of people who can document ancestry back to one of the people who arrived on that ship. It's prestigious to be able to do so, and sort of entitles you to bragging rights.
My friend's ancestor, and possibly two ancestors, beat the Mayflower by 16 months ;D
Cheers,
China
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I am also a decendent of Zacharie Cloutier. I have three of his children (Zacharie Cloutier, Jean Cloutier and Louise Cloutier) in my family tree.
The Iroquois raid on Lachine is a major event in Quebec history. It marked the start of the second French and Iroquois war. I have some ancestors which died in the raid and others which survived. The survivors include the family of Olivier Quesnel. The house that he started to build in 1710 still stands on the lake shore here in Lachine.
John
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Fascinating, isn't it all?
I know that house, been by it a few times. I used to enjoy driving that lovely road.
Cheers,
China
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Very interesting China.... some of our ancestors went thru quite a lot
JDC
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I know, it's fascinating isn't it? Myself I recently found out how small the gene pool is by realising (actually finding out doing research) that I am related to someone I happen to see almost every day. I knew her mother had the same surname as my mother's (both french canadian), so I did a bit of research and sure enough, it seems we are distant cousins from 9 generations back ::)
I also found out that one of my ancestors married twice - the first time they had 10 children, and the second time, 11. The aim was to populate the colony and they sure did their part :o
S.
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I just found something similar. I googled a pair of my friend's ancestors that I didn't have dates for, and the first generation on the first page I looked at was Angelina Jolie. Someone has put her entire family tree on the web, going back 16 generations.
So I ran through it, and found 7 couples that are in the tree I'm doing. And they are all from different branches, as obviously everybody "upstream" from a married couple are also ancestors.
So my friend and Angelina share at least 7 ancestral couples. And I'm only working on a very small part of the tree at the moment.
There weren't all that many Europeans in New France. They intermarried out of necessity.
Incidentally, Angelina Jolie's father is Jon Voigt. I didn't know that :)
Cheers,
China
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Very cool China!!
I've got a few in my tree that go back to the Fille du Roi.. It's neat to be able to get them back that far!!
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There were other girls before the Filles du Roi...look up Filles à Marier.
http://many-roads.com/2009/09/02/filles-a-marier-marriageable-girls/
Some of the Filles were from high society...Quite a few of them didn't like the look of who they were getting, and broke their contracts.
http://www.leveillee.net/ancestry/fillesduroi1.htm
Cheers,
China
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Some of the Filles were from high society...Quite a few of them didn't like the look of who they were getting, and broke their contracts.
Very interesting site, China! That might explain why my ancestor annulled 3 marriages in less than 2 years before he married the "right" one, hehe. I actually found all 3 ladies on that list ;D.
S.
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Maybe *they* annulled *him*...before he found one who wasn't quite as choosy ;D ;D
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Another surprising source of settlers to New France was English Captives!
While most captives would have returned to New England after being ransomed or released following the signing of peace treaties; according to the book “Captors and Captives: the 1704 French and Indian raid on Deerfield” by Evan Haefeli, Kevin Sweeney, there may have being as many as five hundred English captives who choose to remain and settle in New France. Parts of the book are on google books:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/08kn/
Two branches of my family tree lead back to English ancestors in New France. One leads to John (or Jean) Pain who was born in England in 1708 and married Marie Josephe Brisson in 1732 at Ste-Anne-de-La-Pocatière.
The other leads to Josiah Rising and Abigail Nims. They were both captured as children during the 1704 raid on Deerfield Ma, and carried back to Montreal by Mohawks. They married in 1715 and by 1721 had settled in Oka Quebec. The house they build is still standing in Oka. Their grand daughter Elisabeth Seguin married Antoine Quesnel, the great grand son of Olivier Quesnel, in 1762.
There is a six part documentary on Youtube about my ancestors from Deerfield Ma. Josiah Rising and Abigail Nims (6 x great grand parents)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4Jk5ItNpmY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSaUS4jJ0cA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPIv5J5Oh6I&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1HGAqsd0bQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrxyo7M_M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX6W9YV60Zg&feature=related
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How very interesting! I'd heard of the Deerfield raid but didn't know much about it...I shall investigate your links tomorrow. Many thanks for posting them.
Are you descended from James McGill as well? I was intimately acquainted with him for 5 years ;D ;D
Cheers,
China
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Are you descended from James McGill as well? I was intimately acquainted with him for 5 years ;D ;D
No relation to James McGill. I just abbreviated my name.
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china .... don't let that answer keep you from telling us all about your intimate relationship with james .... ;D ;D
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Wanna see my transcript? ;D ;D ;D
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Hi,
I have something to add about Zacharie Cloutier that I found in a book about 20 years ago, I can't remember the title but I know it's about the origins of French-Canadian names. Apparently Zacharie Cloutier is ancestor to every French-Canadian through female and male lines, not one family tree is missing him in its genealogy.
Adele
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Here’s a little pop quiz in honour of the upcoming royal wedding.
Which member of the British Royal family is also a descendent of Zacharie Cloutier?
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Camilla? :D
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Hi,
I have something to add about Zacharie Cloutier that I found in a book about 20 years ago, I can't remember the title but I know it's about the origins of French-Canadian names. Apparently Zacharie Cloutier is ancestor to every French-Canadian through female and male lines, not one family tree is missing him in its genealogy.
Adele
Interesting, and not surprising. He had daughters, and there weren't many women to marry.
I found it a fascinating subject of research, and so very alien to us today.
Cheers,
China
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Camilla? :D
Camilla is the right answer as can be seen from this link.
http://www.nosorigines.qc.ca/genealogyLinker.aspx?lng=en
Other famous descendents of Zacharie Cloutier include Angelina Jolie and Madonna.
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See post # 1 of this thread ;D ;D ;D
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Another piece of interesting information. Zacharie Cloutier’s wife Sainte Dupont is a direct descendent of Charlemagne Carolingian the Holy Roman Emperor as followers:
Sainte Dupont
Paul-Michel Dupont
Denis Dupont
Charles Dupont
Charles Louis du Pont
Francois (Pont) du Pont
Jean (Pont) du Pont
Hervé (Pont) du Pont VII
Hervé (Pont) du Pont VI
Hervé (Pont) du Pont
Hervé (Pont) du Pont
Hervé IV (Pont) du Pont
Jeanne de Malestroit
Payen III de Malestroit
Eude de Malestroit
Constance de Léon
Hervé Léon I
Guiomarch Léon IV
Adelize Aumale
Etienne (Champagne) de Troyes - Comte d’Aumâle de Troyes
Eudes (Champagne) de Troyes - Count of Champagne, Comte de Troyes and Meaux
Etienne (Blois) de Troyes - Count of Troyes and Meaux
Eudes (Blois) Champagne - Count of Blois, Comte de Champagne & Blois
Eudes (Blois) de Blois - Count of Blois, Comte de Blois
Luitgarde (Vermandois) de Normandie
Heribert (Vermandois) de Vermandois - Count of Vermandois, Meaux and Soissons
Héribert (Vermandois) de Vermandois -
Pepin (Vermandois) de Vermandois - Seigneur de Péronne et de Saint-Quentin
Bernard (Carolingian) di Italia
Carloman Carolingian - King of Italy
Charlemagne Carolingian - King of the Franks, King of the Lombards, Emperor of the Romans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne
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Oh how lovely, thank you! I have all the Vermandois clan, so apparently I am related to my friend several times.
Cheers,
China