RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: Scouse on Friday 09 April 10 19:40 BST (UK)
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HI everyone.
With the help of rootschat, and other research sites, I have been trying to find the roots of an Irish family named Hickey who are in my tree, but with no success
The info I had related to the 1841 census for Liverpool, the main persons being. >
John Hickey 45 yrs Carter b Ireland
Ellen Hickey 41 yrs Wife b Ireland
Elizabeth Hickey 22 yrs Dau Ireland
Alfred Smith b Liverpool husband of Elizabeth.
My latest info is possibly for Elizabeth, and a link for the Hickey family to Tipperary >
The search was for an Elizabeth Hickey b 1819 + or - 2 yrs somewhere in Ireland, with a father named John. The only one that came up with matching data was one for 1819 Tipperary, this is the only one that fit that date range.
Now where do I go from here, is there anyone who can help me.
Kind regards Scouse
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just wondering where the Tipperary details come from, do you have information on where in the county Elizabeth came from or was this clue based on a search of the IFHF database ?
It's worth noting that not all records for Ireland (or Tipperary - many from the south of county are not included) are available online on the IFHF website and some parishes do not have records back as far as 1819.
Shane
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Hi Shane.
In answer to your questions.
The info was sent to me in response to a post that I put on Irish forum, Genealogy. com. sent by that amazing researcher Ralph Connors. He says that the Catholic church,took control over most of the parish records for Tipperary ( North ) and that these are available thru the Tipperary Fam Hist Res centre at a substancial fee, regardless of results, and the NationalLibrary of Ireland on micro film, that is all I have. but he did go on to say that for a John Hickey b c1796 there where 14 results covering Counties of Ireland.
Basically that is it.
KInd regards Scouse
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I think I've seen those posts by Ralph Connors on Genforum- just cut and paste like this one (although he seems to post them for any surname)-
http://genforum.genealogy.com/hickey/messages/3027.html
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Hi Scouse (love the name actually),
When I read your post first, I thought you were posting your own findings from the IFHF site at http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/
Personally, I would recommend that you spend a little time understanding what this site has to offer and how it was implemented before you place any trust in it.
Unfortunately, Civil Records in Ireland only go back to 1864 for births so you will need tom consult Church records to go back earlier.
Check out the quick guide at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,447906.0.html
Good luck with your search.
Dara.
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Hi Dara.
Your comments and advice taken on board, could not open the link you posted, first part ok, it led me to the correct page, but then when clicked on, it showed a blank page.
I have tried over the years, through different sites, posting various Irish based look-ups, all without any luck, but with occasional expence, and most replies tend to say the same thing > that the Irish records are a nightmare to navigate, that is why I tend to rely on more experienced researchers for help.
Hope that explains things better.
Kind regards Scouse
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The problem with basing a search on the IFHF database is that whilst it does cover about 70% of the counties, it excludes some major population centres - i.e. Cork and Dublin cities , and and this particular case they do not cover several counties that have the largest number of Hickey households - i.e. Clare, Waterford and parts of Cork. These and other counties are not included in any online sources at the moment.
Because of that any online 'all-Ireland' search of a database is meaningless, as there could be 10 other potential Elizabeth Hickey births that are not included in your search.
To start a pre-civil registration search, especially for a reasonably common surname, two details are required - religion, and location i.e. parish, town or townland. Remember also that not all early records have survived.
Shane
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could I add my tuppence worth .. the database on the IFHF site, while having a certain use in a country with poor availability of records, is far from dependable. From my own personal experience trawling through microfilm in the NLI, the records on IFHF do not contain a lot of information available on originals. Many records were not transcribed, especially if the record was difficult to read, it was simply omitted. I have discovered several of my ancestors from the microfilms that are not on the IFHF site for available counties. Not to mention incomplete transcriptions on the records that are on IFHF.
So take it as a guide rather than a bible of records!
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...The info I had related to the 1841 census for Liverpool, the main persons being. >
John Hickey 45 yrs Carter b Ireland
Ellen Hickey 41 yrs Wife b Ireland
Elizabeth Hickey 22 yrs Dau Ireland
Alfred Smith b Liverpool husband of Elizabeth.
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a question on the details you mentioned earlier ....
did John and Ellen have any further children - i.e. born in England ?
If so you could find Ellen's maiden name on an English birth cert (or baptism record before 1837), which could help confirm any search results in Ireland .. as if a marriage can be found anywhere (either on the IFHF or other site) between a John Hickey and an Ellen xxx, then it is very likely to be the correct family, and therefore be a great starting point.
Shane
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Hi Scouse,
I checked both links above and both seem to be working normally. Anyone else having difficulty?
The intro to Church Records is on .pdf so you will need to have Adobe installed to view.
On the IFHF site you need to register (free) in order to search the database (free). If you want to view the tanscripts it costs 5 Euro each.
The advice above from Shane and Agho is very sound and complies exactly with my experience of the site. Knowing where to look is the key.
Dara.
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Hi Shane.
In answer to your query, re further children, the answer is yes details are>
James 18yrs son b L/pool
Maria 14yrs dau b L/pool
Francis 7yrs son b L/pool
Sound advice from Dara & Agho, thank you both.
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Since the details come from the 1841 census they all appear to have been born before civil registration started in England (1837). Maybe someone with knowledge of Liverpool church records could hep you find one of the baptisms ?
p.s. do John, Ellen or Elizabeth give a more detailed location of birth (other than just Ireland) on any of the census returns you have found for them ?
Shane
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HI Shane
Sorry for the delay in answering.
In reply to your query any further info, The details that I posted are all the info I had.
I am now going to post a look-up on the Lancs forum, and, as you suggested see if anyone can help with a possible baptism.
Kind regards Scouse
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If you can find find a maiden name for Ellen on one of the children's baptisms, it would be very useful, as should be enough to confirm or rule out any baptism that can be found in Ireland for Elizabeth, or even a possible marriage for Ellen and John, especially as all we have as a location is Ireland.
Shane
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Hi Shane.
I have just this minute posted a look-up on the Lancs forum,
have a look-see, I think I have got it covered.
Kind regards Scouse
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I had a quick look at your Lancashire post, seem to to cover the essential details. I am guessing the family may have been Catholic ?
Hopefully someone will be able to help you locate details of one of the baptisms. The details may confirm the county Tipperary theory or send your search wider... but at least with an additional clue to use.
Shane
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H Shane.
Hopefully something will come up.
Thanks to all who contributed to this post.
Kind regards Scouse
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Hi Scouse..
I've seen the reply to your query on the Lancashire board... very strange if that's true, as I've seen mother's maiden included on many much older (i.e. late 1700s) baptism records in Ireland - both RC and Church of Ireland, I didn't think English church records would be that different.
link : Baptism look-up Liverpool pre 1837 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,450279.0.html)
Since the only place of birth mentioned on the Hickey census returns seems to be Ireland, the search is very wide, although if there is some family stories indicating a particular county, like Tipperary, then maybe that's the place to start. All I can think of to do next is to search for baptisms of an Elizabeth Hickey around the right time with a father's name of John and hope that the mother's name is Ellen (even with a match, there would be no way to be 100% sure it was the right Ellen..) - could be a bit of a gamble and cost quite a bit to do if you use the IFHF website.
Some other church records not included on the IFHF website are available free at http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/ At the moment this website includes details for county Kerry, and parts of Dublin (City & County) and are planning to add details for Cork City, west county Cork and county Carlow.
Shane
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Hello Scouse & Shanew147
if the family were RC then there's a very good chance the mother's maiden name will be recorded but in earlier C of I records quite often it was mother's first name only. I've had this problem on some of my ancestors. Maybe older English records are the same?
agho
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Hi agho
I dont think there's been any mention of the family religion, but I am guessing that it's more likely that this Hickey family might be RC ?
I have some quite old RC baptism records for my own family that mention mother's maiden name but that detail is missing as you said for some CofI/Presbyterian ancestors. I have two particular CofI baptism certs (1840s) that dont include mother's maiden name. In one case the actual church records do include this, in the other the original records do not survive.
If it was my family I would persevere and look for the Liverpool baptism anyway just to be sure... might be cheaper then purchasing all the possible IFHF records
Shane
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I agree shanew147 that the chance of success in Liverpool is much better than in Ireland & that's where I'd pursue the quest also.
Scouse have you tried following the eldest daughter Elizabeth to see if she mentions anywhere where she was born .. marriage record might lead you to a later census?
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Hi Shane & agho.
Shane, read your post on the Lancs forum, hopefully Carole will answer your question, she's been a great help to me in the past, and with a surname like Smith you need all the help you can get.
Agho, I will get back to you later on any marriage details, I will have to sift through my paperwork, to see what I can find.
Thanks for keeping an interest, kind regards Scouse
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I have a John Hickey c1819 from Ireland, he married in Reading Berkshire, he had 10 children that I know of, one married into my family Agnes Hickey was RC.
On the 1871 census John Hickey ,wife and children upsticks to Liverpool, so may be they
were related?
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Hi Louisa.
Unforetunately I never got any further on my Hickey look-up, but as you say there may be some kind of connection in Liverpool, don't think we will ever find out though.
Kind regards Scouse.
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Hi Scouse,
On the free BMD there are many Hickey's in Liverpool, they must be related?
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scouse,could be useless,serendipity,or the lotus in the swamp.I had seen the name hickey tied in with prendergast in 'genforum',2000.yes,long time ago but enquirer name was elizabeth hickey.so,I thought coincidence ?maybe.your game now,hope it's a winner.
glucose.
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Hi Scouse,
I have a John Hickey who was sponsor to the baptism of Maria Finn, daughter of John Finn and Elizabeth Shaughnessy in Thurles Tipperary on the 27/5/1834.
I hope this may help in some way.
Ann.