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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: jayaydee on Tuesday 20 April 10 22:29 BST (UK)
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My relative, Minnie Olive Buckle, born 1878 in Bermondsey, London, emigrated to America in 1909. I've found her on the Ellis Island website as having arrived on 18 October 1909 on the Minnetonka. The "whether joining relative/friend" column lists Francis F R Mitchell, 83 Green Street, New York.
I would love to know what happened to her - did she marry Francis, where did she settle etc - but I have no idea where to start. Could someone help please?
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Per the brides' index at www.italiangen.org, Minnie Olive Buckle married Frederick Mitchell on 19 Oct. 1909 in Manhattan.
I think the street Mr. Mitchell was on was Greene Street, which is in Manhattan.
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Well she didn't hang around - that was the day after she arrived! Many thanks for finding that. How would I find out more?
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I haven't had any luck finding them on the 1910 Census, but you can check the 1920 Census for free here: http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start
There's information on ordering the marriage certificate here: http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/vitalrecords/home.shtml
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Not that this helps in your search, but I wonder if the 1909 immigration record is Fiance, instead of Francis?
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Frederick Read Mitchell was a woolen merchant c1906. He was born c1876 in London. According to his passenger list information in 1912, it looks like he had been in the states 30 times during the past 15 years.
In 1906 (1907?, don't remember which list I read), he was single. In 1912, he was married and headed to the Hamilton Hotel in Bermuda. His mother was living at 32 Langdon? Park Road, London.
In 1918, he was still married and his wife (no name) was living at 61, St Johns Villas, Holloway (no country). Occupation: Traveller, with "Salesman" written over it. He was headed to Canada and New York. He was joining Messrs Passavarst, 440 Fourth Ave, New York. He was intending to stay about 12 months.
I wonder if this could be your F R Mitchell?
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New York passenger list, 7 August 1911, sailing from London, Minnetonka.
Frederick R Mitchell, born c1876, London. Single. Merchant. Last permanent address: London, England. Name of nearest relative/friend in country whence alien came: Mother living at 33 Langdon Park Rd., Highgate. Destination: Bermuda.
He had been in the U.S. "15" (years?), in New York. Joining relative or friend: 83 & 85 Green St., New York. He was 5' 4 1/2", fair complexion, brown hair and eyes.
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I would appreciate if someone could verify the information below, please?
NY passenger list, 17 February 1911, St. Louis, leaving Southampton.
Frederick R Mitchell, age 34 and 11 months?, widowed?. Woolen Merchant. Mother's address is 32 Langdon.
Could this be Minnie?
FreeBMD, Deaths December 1910: Minnie O Mitchell, age 33, District: Staines.
I apologize if I have read the passenger list incorrectly, but it does look like "W" in the married/single column. :-\
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Hi Lisa,
Thank you so much for all your searching. I agree that Francis looks more like fiance which would make sense.
I couldn't find them in the 1920 census but I did find a death in Toronto, Ontario of a 22-day old Fred Mitchell, birth date 21/3/1910, father Fred Mitchell, mother Minnie Buckle. The death on FreeBMD for Minnie looks probable (her parents lived in that area) and Fred is definitely showing as a widower for the first year or so after that date.
On that basis, I've been searching for her return to England some time between April and December 1910 on Ancestry with no luck. Any ideas on where else to look?
Once again, many thanks :)
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Have you checked to see if any other Buckle family members came over around 1909? (And returned to the UK shortly after.)
I do not have access to some passenger lists/border crossings. Have you looked for her crossing the border into Canada, or sailing from Canada to the UK?
I wonder if there might be a death certificate for little Fred, which might give further information?
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Hello Lisa in California - Sorry, slow response to reply 7 but Frederick is marked as "widowed" on 17 Feb 1911 Passenger List.
He is also marked as "widowed" 24 Aug 1911 going from Bermuda to New York on SS Tagas. Fred R Mitchell. Woolen Mercant. Age 35. Nativity:- England. The name and address of relative fron Country from whence came is:- (Brother) Mr Daniel Mitchell. 190 Bishop Street. Montreal. Canada.
Last permanent Address:- Canada. Montreal. Nationality (Country of Which Citizen/Subject) is Canada.
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Have'nt had a look at the Buckle Family but in the post above there is a mention of a brother Daniel in Canada - not sure if this will help with any further searching but will post for information purposes. It may give Lisa some further clues to trace in Canada.
I think this is the family of Frederick REID/READ Mitchell - he was born 23 Feb 1876 Strand. Middlesex and christened 5 May 1878 Westminster. London.
1881 UK Census Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
James T. Mitchell 31Born 1851 Clerkenwell. Middlesex. Bookbinder Forward
Eliza J. Mitchell 30 Born 1851 Norwich
Eliza C. Mitchell 8 Westminster
Fredk. R. Mitchell 5 Westminster
Emma R. Mitchell 3 Westminster
Daniel Mitchell 1 Newington. Surrey.
George Shepperd 15 Lodger
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1891 Civil Parish:- Newington St Marys. Registration District: St Saviour Southwark
13 Arthur Street.
James T Mitchell 41 Bookbinder Forward
Eliza Mitchell 40
Eliza C Mitchell 18 Art Needle Woman
Frederick A Mitchell 15 Accountant
Emma R Mitchell 13 Mothers help domestic
Daniel Mitchell 11 Scholar
Nellie J Mitchell 7 Scholar
William M Mitchell 4
Annie Mitchell 2
Dorothy M Mitchell 1
Emma Reynolds 37 Born Norwich. Sister In Law. Single. School Mistress
Samuel Wash 30 Boarder. Carpenter.
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1901 Census Newington. St Marys - Brother Daniel is still at home but Frederick had begun his travelling to the USA
James Thos Mitchell 51 Bookbinder Forward
Eliza Mitchell 50
Eliza Cath Mitchell 28 Dressmaker
Emma Reynold Mitchell 23 Bookfolder
Daniel Mitchell 21 Architects Clerk
Nellie Janet Mitchell 19 Mothers Help.
William Mannie Mitchell 14 Junior Con Clerk (Middle name on image Mansell)
Annie Mitchell 12
Dorothy Mabel Mitchell 10
Herbert Frank Mitchell 7
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A Canadian Passenger List show Daniel Mitchell and Marie ? 18 Nov 1913 on SS Sicilian - London to Quebec.
Daniel had been in Canada before. - occupation Architect - Going to Montreal. Marie had not been in Canada before.
Daniel had also travelled previously a Border Crossing Canada to USA shows:-
Daniel Mitchell. Feb 1908. Age 28 years. Architect. Going to Paterson. New Jersey. Final destination:- New York. No relations.
Border Crossing 24 March 1915 from Canada to USA. Port of Arrival:- Port of Arrival: Detroit, Michigan, USA. Occupation:- Architect. Lived in Montreal. Wife:- Maria Mitchell. 23/92 Warsily Street ? Montreal. Going to Detroit.
Daniel Mitchell. Age 26. Single. Architect. 16 Aug 1906. Liverpool to New York. SS Teutonic. Had not been in the USA before.
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Just out of curiosity, tried to investigate where the Read/Reid middle name came from and it would appear it comes from a much earlier marriage of a Edward Reynolds born 1768 Norwich. UK to Elizabeth Read 18 Feb 1788 Hempnall. Norfolk. ;D
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Hi dettori28: Thank you for all of the help! (And, thank you for the previous instructions for shrinking links.) ;D
Jayaydee: Daniel can be found in Montreal in 1914-15. I checked a few later editions of the directory and did not see him. I have not checked directories prior to 1914.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/08io/
Daniel Mitchell was an architect, address 2392 Waverly
Additional directories:
http://bibnum2.bnquebec.ca/bna/lovell/
Choose Serie principale
Click on the year you want, and click Alphabetical Directory. Choose the letter "M", highlight the correct page to view the image.
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dettori28 and Lisa in California
Thank you both so much for the information you've found. It doesn't look like Canada and USA kept outbound passenger lists so I've been looking for Minnie on Ancestry UK Incoming Passenger lists for 1910 but no luck so far. Also haven't found anything for that year for Frederick either.
Thanks again for your help.
PS What's a "bookbinder forward" ???
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Hello Jayaydee.
Yes, I was fascinated by the description "book-binder Forward".
"Forwarding," in bookbinding, is meant all the steps toward the completion of a book, up to, but not including, "finishing," or the lettering and decoration of the same.
Towards the bottom of this link :-
Forwarding a, Dummy Book - Gives a good desciption.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/08ip/
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dettori28 - how interesting - it's amazing what you learn from genealogy isn't it!!
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Herbert Frank Mitchell, age 7 in 1901. I wonder if this is Herbert:
NY passenger list, 28 July 1916, departing Kingston, Jamaica, arriving New York on the Santa Marta.
Herbert F Mitchell, born c1893, London, England. Travelling with wife, Kathleen G Mitchell, age 22. He was a merchant. (Additional information on passenger list.)
Perhaps Minnie sailed back to the UK in 1910 from another port besides one in Canada or the U.S.?
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Another one Lisa under Detroit Border Crossing. 26 Oct 1912
Herbert F Mitchell. Agee 22 years. Last Permanent Address:- London. Ontario. Travelling Salesman. Passage paid by self. Ever in the US:- No.Father Mr James T Mitchell. 32 Langdon Park Road. Highgate. London.
Destination:- London (Leaves USA at New York City)
Height 5ft 3" Hair:- Brown. Eyes:- Brown. No Distinguishing Marks.
Seaport and Date of Landing and Name of Steammship. Victorian. Detroit. Michigan. 10/25/12 MC
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I just found that one. ;D
Did you see a possibility for his death, in 1964?
Without double-checking things, it appears that his wife (on census returns) could have been Hebe. There is a WWI draft card, which could be him, born 2 July 1893, I believe it said.
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It appears that Daniel and Herbert were living in Canada at one time. I wonder if any other family members were living in Toronto, in 1910?
There is a WWII draft card for the man (Herbert) born 2 July 1893. Obvious physical characteristics: gun shot wound left arm and leg. ???
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Herbert Frank Mitchell birth registered St Saviour Sept 1893 so that covers the previous 3 months - thats your man. Will just check where the other children were registered.
Yes St Saviour.
Indiana Death Record - yes ? ;D
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I saw the 1964 date on the social security death index. Was just checking to see if Indiana had online vital records, and it appears that the state doesn't. :-\
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Dorothy Mabel Mitchell, born c1891, married Harold James Ross (in England).
After a quick search, do not see them in Canada or the U.S. (Still trying to link Minnie to a rellie in Toronto.)
I have to leave for a bit. Will return here later.
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Under Detroit Border Crossing. Herbert Mitchell - Pan American World Airways. London. England. to Detroit 27 Aug 1955.
No further details. Obviously Detroit had somee significance for both Daniel and Herbert.
UK BMD Record Dorothy Mable Ross 8 April 1890 died 1978 Hillingdon. Greater London. Her birth was registered June 1890 so it looks right.
Canada Ocean Arrivals Form 30 A. July 6th 1920. Dorothy Ross. From London England on SS Tunisian. On a visit, has $100, passage paid by self. Destines to friend .......Mitchell ????
Nearest relative in Country from whence came:- Looks like Sister Mrs Hyatt. 15 Waverley Avenue. (Sorry rather blurry - difficult to read) The actual passenger list was no better. (Sorry)
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No joy yet with Buckle.
1930 Census Indianapolis, Marion, Indiana
Herbert F Mitchell 36 Rents home $62. Married age 25yrs. Commercial traveller. Flooring. Immigrated 1912. NA. WW Veteran.
Hebe Mitchell 32 Born Indiana. Parents Indiana. Married Age 21 yrs.
Robert Mitchell 9 Born New York
Janet Mitchell 5 Born Indiana
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1920 Census Brooklyn Assembly District 11, Kings, New York
Herbert Mitchell 26 Immigration 1914. NA 1919. Treasurer Woolen Corp.
Hebe Mitchell 22 Born Indiana
Jeanette Elliott 47 Boarder. Widow. Born NS.
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New York Passenger List 6th Aug 1922. SS Cedric.
Hebe (Birth Location Plainville -1898) and Robert Mitchell (Age 2) Visiting Mother (Presume Mother In Law) Mrs Mitchell. 64 Cheverton Road. London. There address:- New York. Passage paid by husband. Husband H F Mitchell ESQ., 682 B'Way. New York. Hebe scar left arm.
UK Incoming Passenger List 4th June 1922 SS Adriatic. New York - Liverpool
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Perhaps Minnie sailed back to the UK in 1910 from another port besides one in Canada or the U.S.?
I've searched all inbound from anywhere in the world to any port in the UK in 1910 under Mitchell and even tried Buckle and still can't find her. Starting to wonder if she swam ;D
Thank you both so much for all your searching.
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Back to Daniel again - Detroit Border Crossing 3/2/15
Architect. Wife Mara Mitchell. 2392 Waverley Street. Montreal. Daniel was in the USA 1906 - 1911. Buffalo. New York. Going to detroit. Michigan - no adress. Has $150
5FT 6". Dark. Eyes Brown. Hair Brown.
Landed in New York on SS Teutonic Aug 1906 going to Detroit. Michigan.
Yes, I've done those searches to, even under Olive - no luck. :(
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Daniel Mitchell married Mara E Storrar - Camberwell Oct/Nov/Dec 1913. He was on the Canadian passenger list 18 Nov 1913, London to Quebec - Married.
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Maybe the 1910 death wasn't for your Minnie?
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I was wondering that. It seems a bit of a coincidence though. The other thing I think is odd is that they got married in New York, away from their families, when they were both from London.
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One of the reasons why I'm interested in Frederick's family members is to see if someone was living in Toronto and to see if there were any family members in New York.
Perhaps there was a reason to get married quickly? Little Fred was born in March 1910 (he could have been premature, of course)... :-\
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Hi Jayaydee and Lisa.
Not sure if this could be one of your Buckle members but it has a Toronto connection which Lisa was looking for - (alot of the male members had the middle name Lopresti from BMD searches - sounds nice)
Canadian Passenger List. 6 June 1906 for Herbert Buckle. Age 40. From Suffolk. General Labourer. Going to Toronto -- Liverpool - Montreal. SS Tunisia. ;D
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Thank you for the additional Buckle lookup, dettori28.
In case I didn't mention this link earlier, this has Toronto Directories for some early 1900's years. I choose "read online" and if the image doesn't immediately appear, you can try it later.
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=toronto%20directories%20AND%20collection%3Atoronto
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The Lopresti ones are all mine - they're Minnie's brothers and it was their mother's maiden name. I thought it looked interesting until I went further and found it's the equivalent of Smith or Jones in Sicily!!
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Hello Jayaydee.
Here is another of those genealogy facts:
Lo Presti Name Meaning and History
Southern Italian: Occupational name for someone in the service of priests, from the plural of Old Italian preste ‘priest’
Preti and Prete:- Southern Italian Occupational name for someone in the service of priests, from the plural of Old Italian preste ‘priest’ ;D
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Just checking back to see if we could have missed anything - did you notice on the 1901 Census for Mininie O Buckle - it said paralysed childhood. ???
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Just checking back to see if we could have missed anything - did you notice on the 1901 Census for Mininie O Buckle - it said paralysed childhood. ???
Yes I noticed that but strangely there's no mention of it on the 1881 and 1891 censuses. No mention of it on the ship's manifest either. I wonder why they felt it should be mentioned when she was 23?
I was half expecting to find that her mother Louisa Lopresti was Catholic given her Italian surname but she and several of her children were married in CoE churches so I guess not.
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Yes, I thought it was strange but I wondered if she may have had some reoccurence of this brought on by child-birth and which could have contributed to an early death - if the death record Lisa found is your Minnie. Would be interesting to see that death record.
Have'nt looked further back on Louise Lopresti - interesting though that the children were all C of E given what looked like an Italian blood connection :(
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My dad had two middle names. One was a surname that had been handed down three generations, it was his greatgrandmother's surname. Perhaps your Lopresti was also passed down?
PS His ancestors were born in England. The surname that was handed down was believed to have been from a French ancestor (and not yet proven). :-\
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If there was an early Catholic Influence it could have been a geneartion earlier, from the father of Louise Lopresti/Buckle -Joseph Lopresti, the mother Edith (possibly Coleman) seems to have been born St Martins, Middlesex and either remarried or took the name Carter by the 1861 Census (after the death of Joseph in 1848.) Can imagine you having difficulties with the surname in BMD records having had a brief look. ;D
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Yes I did spend some time on it out of curiosity but I gave up in the end. It didn't seem worth pursuing as Louisa married into the Buckle family from whom I'm descended so the Loprestis aren't really my family. It's easy to get side-tracked though :-\