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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex Lookup Requests => Essex => England => Essex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: samsshan on Friday 23 April 10 10:44 BST (UK)
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I wonder if it is possible for someone to look up the death of my GGG grandmother Sarah Sams Hardy? she was sentenced to 12 months hard labour at Chelmsford in 1835 and I cannot find her death, 3 of her sons were sentenced to transportation to Sydney Cove. The Chelmsford Chronicle carries a story about the court case. She came from Finchingfield. Thanks so much if anyone does it. samsshan
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Hi welcome to Rootschat. :)
Think we need a little more information to go on please
Have you found her on the 1841 census ??? Do you have an approx age for her either ???
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There is a Sarah Hardy aged 45 with a Saul also aged 45 living Barrack Lane Moulsham, Chelmsford.... he is a Confectioner, with 4 son and 3 daughters, could this be the family ???
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No sorry this sarah sams was in chelmsford being tried for theft but she was living in Finchingfield. Her husband was samuel hardy of Finchingfield.
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I am thinking that she may have died in Gaol, in which case where would they have buried her? If she survived hard labour then where did she die if not Finchingfield? Thanks for your trouble.
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I am not sure of her birth she must have been born about 1794-6. in 1835 according to the Chelmsford Chronicle she was too old to transport to Australia, so instead she was sentenced to 12 months hard labour, I am wondering if she died in the gaol but if so which gaol did she do her hard labour in? do any records still exist of the inmates? I hope this is enough? Her children that i know of were Robert James, My gg grandfather, Joseph and Samuel who was not transported and moved away from Finchingfield after his brothers' transportation.
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No matter where she died in the UK her death would have to be registered by law.
I,m a little confused by her surname is it Sams or Hardy please ???
What are the birth dates of Robert James, Joseph and Samuel please.
I assume that she was still married to Samuel when she was jailed, I wonder if she ever remarried, :-\ that would explain why you cant find her death, perhaps we should look for Samuels death first . :-\
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her maiden name was Sams her married name was Hardy. she had a daughter I think and sons, Robert James, convicted, Thomas Jasper, convicted, and Joseph, convicted, Samuel Named for his father was not convicted. in February 1834 she was a widow. this is the time of the courtcase. She was called elderly by the court and the judge, I doubt very much she would have married again once she was released from hard labour, if she survived it.
"Joseph Hardy, Robt. James Hardy and Thomas Jasper Hardy, were first indicted for stealing three bushels of wheat, and a sack, from Robert Smith, with whom they worked,
at Finchingfield. Sarah Hardy the mother, was indicted for receiving the same, knowing it to be stolen". Chelmsford Chronicle.
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What are the birth dates of Robert James, Joseph and Samuel please.
in February 1834 she was a widow.
If she was born circa 1794 she would only be 40 then so she could well have remarried.
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I have found the dates of some of them. I was wrong about her husbands name it was Richard and he had married before, he married Sarah Samms/Sams 23 may 1802, children were born, 24 August 1806, Mary. c 10 July 1808, Samuel. 26 August, 1810, Joseph. Thomas Jasper was born c. sept. 1812. My GGG grandfather Robert James was born at Finchingfield c, 25 June 1815. On his certificate of freedom 27 August 1841 it states he was born 1817 but then I think they hardly knew what year it was let alone the year they were born. That would mean that Sarah would be about 18 years old or around that in 1802. I cant see a 50+ woman convicted of theft and sentenced to hard labour remarrying that was old then very old for that level of society. thanks for your trouble.
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This may well be her birth record but it is only a submitted one.
Sarah Sams 14.5.1780 Chelmsford... father William... mother Elizabeth Shettlewood.
If so by the time she had finished her sentance in 1836 she would be 56 then I agree that it is unlikely that she remarried but never assume anything until you can prove otherwise.
There is a death record of a Sarah Hardy Sept.q.1838 Maldon, Essex 12 - 98
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I was thinking that if she survived her sentence then she may well have gone to live with her daughter but I have no married name for Mary, but if Finchingfield was definitely a "no go" area for her, and I tend to think that the family had been ostracized from the area, then she may have ended her days in a workhouse somewhere....possibly Chelmsford if that is where the gaol was. thanks for your help I appreciate it. samsshan
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I am also wondering if the you coudl tell me how far Maldon is from Finchingfield? thanks so much.
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Finchingfield is a fair way from Maldon but its very close to Chemlsford.
I will have another dig around see if I can find any possibles marriages for her children.
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thanks so much Patrish, but remember only Mary and Samuel were left although there was a child from her husbands first marriage. I would love to go to Finchingfield and see the house where they lived but of course it probably does not exist anymore. I just keep thinking about her all alone...what a dreadful life. thanks again, samsshan
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Good job you remided me about the children ;)
Working on a rule of thumb for a marriage at 20 I did a search on the IGI for Essex plus or minus 10 years, dont yet know where these places are but I will check them later on the map. and cross check the 1841 census.
Mary Hardy 24.2.1826 to William Byford.. Sible Headingham, Essex. Submitted.
Mary Hardy 20.7.1830 to John Coxder ...Gestingthorpe. Essex.
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I am tending to think she would marry in Finchingfield...if anywhere.
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Found her :D
County Essex
Place Finchingfield
Church St. John the Baptist
Reg No. 310
Marriage Date 31.1.1831
Grooms Forename CHARLES
Grooms Surename REDGEWELL
Grooms Condition Batchelor
Brides Forename MARY
Brides Surname HARDY
Brides Condition Spinster
Witness 1 forename HENRY
Witness 1 surname TURNER
Witness 2 forename WILLIAM
Witness 2 surname MARTIN
Notes.. He & She signed X
File No. 5836
______________________________________________________________
There is also a marriage of a Charles Hardy 12.10.1832 to Mary Partner, batchelor and spinster both signed with a X, witnesess Mary Smith & Wm Martin.
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That is amazing!! truly how on earth? I wonder how many children she had. I am bowled over by your finding her. I shall look and see if she has any descendants. thanks you so much! I wonder if her mother went to live with her she lived until the census? That is amazing what you have done in just one day. once more I am very grateful I shall see if I can find anything. samsshan
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Havent been able yet to find any Redegwell baptisms in Finchingfield but I notice that Sible Headingham must be quite close as there are several Redgewell baptisms there but none to Sarah and Charles which may indicate that they did no stay in the area :-\
Struggling to find Mary and Charles in 1841 at the moment. :(
I think this surname Redgewell could be mis transcribed a number of ways :( i.e Ridgwell etc.
This might be of interest to you
http://www.btinternet.com/~roger.beckwith/Finchingfield/index.htm
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Struggling to find Mary and Charles in 1841 at the moment
Think this could be her death as I cannot find her on the 1841 census
Mary Redgewell Sept q. 1838 Braintree, Essex 12 - 17
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oh what a shame, to die so young. Well I do know that a descendant of Samuel is still alive somewhere in England and he said that samuel or some of his children moved to London or maybe elsewhere...not sure, to get away from the shame of it all. Frankly I dont think that was why, they left because their life was untenable and Essex had no industry or alternative life to farm labourer. But this 3rd cousin said that his aunt did some looking into the family tree and came to an abrupt halt on discovering the whole family were arrested and half of them transported, the aunt refused to talk at all about the dreadful scandal of it all! So I tend to think the shame of it all was in later generations minds.
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That pic with the buildings going down to the pond....it was a workhouse before it was a butchers! so if they still had that law that you could only get poor relief from your own parish then if sarah survived the 12 month sentence then she may have been forced to go there!! or she may have gone to London to live with samuel....if her daughter was dead. Its such a puzzle.
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by the way thanks for the link to those pics..such a lovely village. I imagine that it was not so wonderful if you were living on the edge of starvation most of the time.
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Sarah Samms's was my great, great, great, great grandmother. I'm a descendant of her son Samuel whose feet were too big for the footprints found at the scene of the crime, so unlike his brothers and mother, he wasn't punished. I have her born in 1762 at Finchingfield. I have 6 children for her in total and quite a bit of info on each. Graham Hardy, Nottingham
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I do hope samsshan see's your post, unfortunately she hasent been online since May last year :(
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We talked quite a few years ago, Graham. My husband is a Hardy descendant from Finchingfield. He is a descendent of Richard Hardy and Sarah Samms. Married 1802. I think his line must have been from son Samuel as the other brothers were sent to Australia and another brother Stephen died at 15. Sister Mary, born 1808 but I don't know what happened to her after the family trial and her mother being sentenced. My husband's great grandfather was George William Hardy, buried in the cemetery in Finchingfield. Married to Henrietta Ridgewell/Redgewell.
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Hello there, gosh yes, we were in contact a long time ago.
I can't recall what information we shared.
I have Mary Hardy marrying Charles Ridgewell 1/10/1831. They lived at Petches Bridge Cottages, Finchingfield at the 1881 census. They had 8 children from 1832-1848. So she was away from her mother and brothers when the desperation of losing her husband aged 53, caused her and the boys to get into trouble. She lived nearby though so wouldn't have escaped the fallout. She died in the December quarter of 1885.
I have Samuel marrying Eliza Adcock and their 10 children. My G G Grandfather was Thomas who married Susanna Moore. They only had one son William who married Louisa Cardy. Of their 4 children, Walter Harold married Ada Hardy. Of their 2 sons, Tom (90) is my dad.
I have George William Hardy and his marriage to Henrietta in 1882 in my records but not linked (yet) to Richard and Sarah. The possibilities for his father would be:
- Stephen born 1829 at Finchingfield who married Eliza Rawlinson. They had 4 children: Ellen R, Willie Joseph, Thomas Jasper and Alice Sarah.
- Joseph born 1840 who married Sarah Ann Heard. They had 5 children: Alfred John, Sarah, Florence Alice, Joseph Ernest G and Herbert William.
- Robert James born 1842 who married Emily Emma Turner. They didn't appear to have any children and he died in 1879.
Does this help in any way?
Graham (Hardy), Nottingham, UK
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My husband is a relative of Sarah Sams Hardy. His great grandparents were George and Henrietta, buried in cemetery at St. John's in Finchingfield. He would be a descendant of Samuel, the only son left while his brothers were sent to Australia. No one seems to know if Sarah survived the poor house or if she died of natural causes. She is likely buried with the other Hardys at St. John's.
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Hi there
I can't really add much. Her marriage witnesses were John and Editha Samms (relationship to Sarah e.g. mother and father, brother and sister or brother and sister-in-law). I did find a census record that she was living with son Samuel at Oustend, Finchingfield in 1841, which implies she survived her 'punishment'. There is a death record in the December quarter in 1843 but it might have been a different Sarah Hardy, there were a few around the area. I really must visit Finchingfield again to check out some facts, but it is quite a journey, although I am a bit nearer than you!
Graham
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I will post the genealogy list I have, Graham. If Sarah was buried at St. John's, she could be near the other Hardys, which is down the hill in an area of the cemetery at the back. Sort of a gully but lots of Hardys there. I was in the UK in May but didn't have time to get back to Finchingfield. Realized that the Ridgewells and Hardys are intermarried. Our Henrietta Hardy was a Rudgewell too. I would like to contact any descents of Samuel Hardy. You said he had 10 children?