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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Tracey Joy Kelly on Friday 23 April 10 08:36 BST (UK)
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have modified today 28th September 2010
I am looking for
Eliza Jane Dohertys death if at all possible. she lived in Victoria with her husband John Doherty
she was born in 1971 in England and migrated to australia in 1877. she married her husband John in 1890 and she had 2 sons.
I am wondering when she died. if u could please give me a date and where she was buried i would appreciate it thank u :)
Eliza jane's whole name was Elizabeth Jane Doherty nee Wheatley.
Modified
James Charles John Barham Wheatley married Ellen Jane Parkin (Eleanor Jane Parkin) in 21st February 1875 at St Olave, Southwark Surrey.
(Note; James was the black sheep of the family. Apparently he stole his brother, William’s wife/fiancé and married her. Their two daughters Eliza and Florence were born before James and Ellen were married. (On their birth records their surnames are mentioned as being Parkin, on every other record their surnames are known as Wheatley.)
Eliza Jane Wheatley (Elizabeth Jane Parkin) was born 1871 in Kensington
Florence Emily Parkin was born in 1873 in Poplar
James was known as a remittance man. He was paid by his family to migrate to Australia with his family. They left Plymouth on the 12th of January 1877 on the British Enterprise and they arrived in South Australia on the 4th April 1877. James was a bricklayer.
James and Ellen Jane had at least 14 children that can be found recorded throughout history.
The first being the girls that were born in England.
Eliza Jane born in 1871 Kensington alive at her mother’s death 1890
Florence Emily born in Poplar alive at her mother’s death 1890
James and Ellen lived in Adelaide, South Australia, where they had:
Charles born 24 December 1877 and died 2 April 1878. Died 4 months old
Ellen born 22 January 1879 and died 29 January 1879 Died 7 days old
James, Ellen and family then moved to New South Wales where they had
Charles William Barham born in 1881 alive at his mother’s death 1890
Maud born 1882 and died 25 May 1882 3 months old
Ellen born 1882 and died 24 March 1882 3 weeks old
(Ellen and Maud were twins)
Henry G born in 1883 and died 1883
James, Ellen and family then moved to Prahran, Victoria
Henry John Barham born 1884 and died 24 March 1885 Died 8 months old
Ellen Rosina born 1886 and died 02 September 1886 Died 6 months
Ellen Rosina born 1887 alive at her mother’s death 1890
Henry John born 1889 alive at his mother’s death 1890
There are at least 2 more children that are not accounted for but have been recorded on birth or death certificates.
These are Charles and Flora. (possibly twins born in South Australia??)
Ellen Jane Wheatley died 27th December 1890 at the age of 36, She died from exhaustion.
The Children were brought up by a Scots women. (Fostered Out)
James came to Western Australia and died 11 December 1930 in Victoria Park. Western Australia
is there anything that i missed? if so let me know and i will find it and put it on.
Thank u :)
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Here is the birth of their first Charles you are missing:
WHEATLEY Charles William Barham b. 24/12/1877
Place: Adelaide, District: Ade, Reg: 193/422
Father: James Charles John WHEATLEY
Mother: Ellen Jane PARKIN
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Thank you Merlin i really appreciate it!
Its been so hard to try and find these.
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Hi Tracey,
Just had a quick look at the Australian Electoral Rolls 1903- 1954.
There is a Charles William Barham in Coolgardie, Western Australia in 1906 and 1910. Then in 1919 and 1925 he is in Kennedy, Queensland and then in 1942 and 1954 he is in Maribyrnong, Victoria.
Forgot to mention that he could have possibly dropped Wheatley as his surname and just used Barham instead.
Regards
Lyne
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Hi Lyne thank u for taking the time to look for me. I am astounded. I was told that "Uncle Charlie" went off to war and didnt come back.. i just assumed that he died over there. (my grandmother told me that.
I will definately look into it.
Thank u for looking :)
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Hi Tracey,
You are welcome as I said it is a possibility he could have stopped using Wheatley as his surname and just used Barham instead, but on the other hand he may have as you said died over there or he might have moved to another country.
Regards
Lyne
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Tracey,
There is a family tree on another site that has Florence Wheatley born 1877 South Australia, I dont know whether its your tree or not but just incase it isnt the tree is the Fitz-Gerald Family tree.
Just a quick update also found Florence Wheatley on another site where someone has a tree stating that Florence was born in Kooringa, Burra, South Australia 1877.
Regards
Lyne
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hi Lyne
i didnt know about that family tree.. how can i find it?
I am still new to RootsChat.com
many thanks
Tracey
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Hi Tracey,
The first tree is on Ancestry which is site you have to pay to look at some information and its alot of money.
The second tree is on Genes Reunited which costs about £10 for 6 months to have contact with people and look at thier trees, not sure what the amount is in Australia for GRU.
If you want I can contact the person on GRU for you and ask relevant questions.
Regards
Lyne
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Lyne
I would appreciate it if u could message them on my behalf. I would love to know if Florence is part of my family tree.
Thanking you
Tracey
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Hi Tracey,
Ellen who was born in 1879 died in SA in1879, which is different to what you have in your first post of d. 1882 NSW ???
WHEATHEY Ellen age 7days d. 29/1/1879
Residence: Adelaide, Place: Adelaide, District: Ade
Symbol: V, Reg: 92/378
Relative: James WHEATLEY (F)
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it might be worth looking on the CWGC website if you think 'uncle Charlie' went to war and never came back :)
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Here's the death of Charles William Barnham who was born 1878 that I gave the birth of before:
WHEATLEY Charles William age 3mths d. 2/4/1878
Residence: Adelaide, Place: Adelaide,
District: Ade, Reg: 86/389
Relative: James Charles WHEATLEY (F)
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Hi Merlin
is it possible that there could of been 2 Ellens instead of 2 Florences? that they could of mixed up the names on Ellen Janes death certificate?
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Hi Tracey,
Anything could be possible, death certificates are only as good as the informants knowledge & many of them have incorrect information on them simply because they didn't know or couldn't remember the exact details. They can be unreliable especially back in those times.
Who was the informant on Ellen Jane's?
Where have you gathered all your names & dates from?
Have you been relying only on that death certificate as proof?
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Hi Tracey,
I have sent a message to the person who has the tree on GRU on your behalf.
Regards
Lyne
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is it possible that there could of been 2 Ellens instead of 2 Florences? that they could of mixed up the names on Ellen Janes death certificate?
You already have the name Ellen repeated 3 times with the girls because of earlier deaths & it was the last one who survived to adulthood. So I highly doubt they would have 2 in the family with the exact same given name. But as I said anything is possible :-\
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Hi there Merlin
my cousin actually paid a geological society to look for the information. they brought a copy of Ellen Janes death certificate and they were the ones that typed out all the childrens names that were on the death certificate.
I have been going through and looking for them.
i used the Victorian bdm discs at wa library to find the babys that were born and died in victoria there were 4 of them (including henry john ) the youngest who was my great grandfather
I used the South Australian discs to find the births that i could
i used the NSW online resources which is why i found that an Ellen Wheatley died in NSW in 1882
but of all the babies i can not find one Florence.
i sent a request to the South Australian history department but they couldnt help.
Thank you so much for finding out this information i really appreciate it.
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maybe she gave birth to an ellen in SA that died and an Ellen in NSW
but there is definately an Ellen that died in NSW as i saw it.
i really feel for that women. to have had so many babies and have so many died at such a young age.
she died from exhaustion at the age of 36
one year after my great grandfather was born.
apparently they were brought up by a scottish woman and when he was 12 he went to wa and lived with his older sister Nellie (Ellen)
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Thank you Lyne I really appreciate your help.
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Hi Tracey,
Have you tried this resource it has lots of information.
http://www.familyhistorysa.info/
Regards
Lyne
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There is a Charles William Barham in Coolgardie, Western Australia in 1906 and 1910. Then in 1919 and 1925 he is in Kennedy, Queensland and then in 1942 and 1954 he is in Maribyrnong, Victoria
The Charles William Barham in VICTORIA isn't him, he died 1978 & his parents were Norman BARHAM & Eileen FRANKLIN.
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thanks Merlin
i can keep dreamin lol
my grandmother used to always say that he went away to war and never came back... i have a photo of him... so i know he exsisted but i dont know what happened
theres no record of him with the australian memorial society. i am not sure where to turn next with him
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Hi
I have the following that were born
Florence 1877? born in SA Alive in 1889 in Victoria
Maud Agnes 1882 born in NSW Alive in 1889 in Victoria
Their parents are James and Ellen Jane Wheatley
if anyone knows who they got married to and their children i would be grateful
Thank you
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Charles would probably be too old to serve in WW1 but he could have served in the Boer War
this site might help you
http://www.awm.gov.au/research/infosheets/south_africa.asp#nominal
i did have a lookon the CWGC website and there are some Australian Wheatleys named
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hey Toni
what is the CWGC? i have looked on the australian war memorial site and i rang them up too. hes not on there.
my family did say that he lied about his age ... said he was older to get into the war. if he was born in 1881 he would have had to lie about his age to get into the Boer war.. the problem is i cant find him in the boer war records.
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Toni
if he did go to the Boer War. He would of been living in Victoria before going away. because that is where the family was situated. in 1901 James sent his youngest son to western australia to live with his youngest daughter Ellen she was 19 and married to Cecil Kenworthy they owned a boarding house.
then at some stage James moved over to western australia himself.
apparently some of the men that wanted to go went to new zealand to register i havent tried looking there yet.. it just feels like a needle in a hay stack lol
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what is the CWGC?
Commonwealth War Graves Commission:
http://www.cwgc.org/
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I had a look at the cwgc but it starts at 1914 not 1899 or does it have the boer war without the year dates?
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You may already have this: I think I have found Ellen in 1871 living with her parents in Mile End which is where her child's birth was registered, later in 1871.
At 16 Alfred St, Mile End Old Town, Tower Hamlets
John Parkin 56 plumber b Stepney (all family b Stepney)
Mary Ann Parkin 56 wife
Ellen J Parkin 18 unmarried, daughter, dressmaker (b abt 1853)
Henrietta Rolls 36 married, daughter
Emily Brain 32 married, daughter
Laird Brain 9 grandchild (I don't think it is 'Laird' but very difficult to read)
1861 - the actual census entry says 'Parker' but it's obviously the same family. Hope the 1871 is correct - it definitely says 'Parkin'
Same address as 1871, entries almost the same - have added changes
John Parker 47
Mary Ann Parker 47
John Parker 20 unmarried schoolmaster
Emily Brain 24 daughter married needlewoman
Ellen Parker 8 scholar
Susan Belcher 3 niece
This looks like the birth of James, March quarter 1851
James Charles John WHEATLEY reg St Geo East, Vol 2, page 115 (St George is part of Stepney reg district now)
Can't find him on a census.
Judith
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Hi Judith
i dont suppose by any chance u have the 1841 census? because it sounds like the right person with her being a dress maker.
but ..
her mothers name was Ellen Parkin
(it said so on her death certificate)
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Tracey,
You will have to have a look at this site as there are 5 possible matches for a Florence Wheatley getting married, it cost $0.99 to have a look.
There are also 2 possible matches for a death for Maud Wheatley again it costs $0.99 to have a look.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/CA2574F700805DE7/HomePage?ReadForm&1=Home~&2=~&3=~
Regards
Lyne
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Thanks Lyne I appreciate your help :)
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Hi Judith
i came up with the following
Richard Parkin
Ellen Parkin
Children
Rosina
George
Fanny
Eliza
Richard
Ellen
i thought that this was the right one because Ellen Jane named her children
Ellen Rosina
Eliza Jane
Henry George
but then in ur censis it says she was a dress maker.. but it doesnt say what she is in this one
so i am not sure what to think.
the Victorian State library told me that Ellen-Janes parents were Richard Parkin and Ellen parkin need ward
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Hmmm - I can't see an Ellen PARKIN on the 1841 census - at least not one living in London.
IGI do have the following so perhaps this is her:
Ellen Jane Parkin
Birth: 25 MAY 1854
Christening: 18 JUN 1854 St Pauls, Hammersmith, London, England
Father: Richard Parkin Mother: Ellen Elizabeth
Here is that family in 1861 at 8 Beaumont? St Hammersmith
Richard Parkin 36 billiard marker b Yorkshire
Ellen E Parkin 46 b Westminster
Rosina E Parkin 22 dressmaker b Holborn
George A Parkin 20 coachmaker b Holborn
Fanny G Parkin 18 dressmaker b Hammersmith
Eliza S Parkin 11 b Hammersmith
Richard R Parkin 9 b Hammersmith
Ellen I Parkin 6 b Hammersmith - could be Ellen J - hard to read
Hard to see any of them in 1871 although there is a George Parkins, 29, coach builder living in Kingston on Thames ???
Judith, wondering if all Parkin women were dressmakers 8)
Edit to add - I think you may be right that this is the one
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Judith i was told that Ellen-Jane was a dressmaker to Queen Victoria :)
i didnt have their occupations written down so thanks for that
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is there anyway that i can search for this information without using a credit card as i dont have one
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Judith do u think that the john parkin you found and richard parkin are brothers or related. seeing as the women in their family are all dress makers?
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Hi,
I am sure someone will be along shortly to help you with the Vic entries. As to SA - Is there possibly some confusion - There is a Florence WHEATLEY born in SA in 1877 but parents are wrong
Florence WHEATLEY 30 Nov 1877 Kooringa Dist Bur 193 179 parents Alfred WHEATLEY and Annie formerly RIGGS nee ROBINSON
She had 4 brothers
also in 1877
WHEATLEY Charles William Barham 24 Dec 1877 Adelaide Dist Ade 193 422 parents James Charles John WHEATLEY and Ellen Jane PARKIN
This is the only birth I see to this couple in SA
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi thanks for that
apparently there was 2 florences 1 born around 1877 and 1 born in 1878
1 Ellen born 1879 (i found her)
2 Charles (i found one)
since then there has been another Ellen found by someone helping me with the Nic name Merlin ( thanks Merlin) and eventually the remaining family members moved to Victoria.
I am thinking that the remaining family girls got married in Victoria.
I have found Eliza Janes marriage
Ellen Rosina's marriage
Henry John was my grandfather so i know his 2 marriages
Charles apparently went off to war and didnt come back
so i am left with wondering what happened to
Florence Wheatley born 1877 was alive at her mothers death 1890
Maud Agnes Wheatley born 1882 was alive at her mothers death 1890
i wanted to know if the girls got married or if they died.
the informant on Ellen Janes Death Certificate was her husband James Charles John Barham Wheatley
in it he named all 13 of the children they had.
i realise that theres an alfred wheatley with the same names i am begining to think i should find out where Alfred came from as James Charles John Barham Wheatley had a half brother named Alfred Wheatley
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They had a child in Dec 1877 so if there was another one it must have been early in the year. Sorry I am confused too - If a daughter Florence b 1877 was alive in 1890 there couldn't have been another Florence born in 1878 - It must surely be the same person.
I am sure someone will be along to help you with those Vic records.
Link to other thread to avoid duplication
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,452005.0.html
Threads now merged
Cheers Kris :)
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could someone please help me find
Florence Wheatleys Marriage
and
Maud Agnes Wheatley Marriage
I have been told that there might be a death for Maud Wheatley. could someone investigate this for me please.
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Alfred WHEATLEY was a sadler. He married twice in Burra SA. His father was Edward. He lived in Burra which is 100 miles (160km) from where James and Ellen were in Adelaide.
Cheers Kris :)
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thanks Kris
I was wondering if they were actually related as
James Charles John Barham Wheatleys older brothers name was Alfred Wheatley.
so thank u for ruling that out for me :)
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Charles Wm WHEATLEY was buried WTC 3 Apr 1878 aged 3 months of Hawden St
Ellen WHEATLEY was buried WTC 30 Jan 1879 aged 7 days of Morphett St
I was going to put this on your other thread Since you have asked the same questions re these two girls marriages and deaths on your other thread, I think its best to merge this.
Cheers Kris :)
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James WEATLEY, Ellen and Eliza arrived in SA on the 4 Apr 1877 aboard the BRITISH Enterprise
The BRITISH ENTERPRISE departed Plymouth 12 Jan 1877. There were no WHEATLEY births or deaths aboard the ship.
This also means that no Florence was born to this couple in SA in 1877
Cheers Kris :)
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wow thanks kris
is there a way to find out that ..
Eliza jane was born in 1872
james and ellen were married in 1875
could Florence have been born before and come out here under her mothers maiden name Parkin
it says that Florence was alive when her mother died.. for the life of me i cant find her.
her father was the informant on her mothers death certificate.
thank u for merging both threads as i didnt know how to do it
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I've searched Wheatl* marriages in Victoria from 1842 to 1942, and there is only one with a first given name of Florence. She didn't marry till 1935 and her name was Florence May Wheatley. If she was born in 1877, this would have been a very late marriage , so I doubt it is her.
Just in case....ref = 3507. Husband's name was Walter James HARRISON.
Dee :)
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Thank you Dee
i dont suppose u know what happened to Maud Agnes. could u see if theres a death for her please
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Dee also
James ended up moving to western australia to be with his youngest son and daughter, do u think florence maybe of came over here? she could of married here?
the thing is if i cant find her birth cerificate then how do i know she even exsisted.
it says theres a florence on her mothers death certificate. but shes the only one i havent been able to find
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I agree with Dee, I have also searched for them & there is nothing that matches in Victoria :(
Tracey, do you have a copy of Ellen Jane WHEATLEY's death certificate?
WHEATLEY Ellen Jane age 36yrs d. 1890 ARMADALE #14501
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hi there Merlin
yes i do have a copy of her death certificate
it mentions james as the informant
and it says there are 13 children
there is meant to be a Florence somewhere.
i know theres a Maud Agnes because i found her
is there a Maud Agnes married in Victoria.
I have been searching as well.. and i am running out of options on Florence.
any ideas?
were the boarders to the territories different in the old days?
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Thank you Dee
i dont suppose u know what happened to Maud Agnes. could u see if theres a death for her please
I've searched all the Vic indexes for any results with mother PARKIN.......apart from the infant death you already have, nothing shows up, I'm afraid.
Dee :)
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maud agnes wheatley was born in NSW in 1882
she would of moved with her family to VIC
it says she was alive in 1890 when her mother died. so i was wondering if she got married or died herself
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Possibles in WA:
WHEATLEY AGNES M married HILL STANLEY A 1915 BLACKWOOD #46
Maud Agnes Wheatley found deceased as an infant with her twin sister Ellen 1882 in NSW :(
WHEATLEY FLORENCE married STEELE WILLIAM H 1913 PERTH #302
WHEATLEY FLORENCE married MOULTON STEPHEN J 1919 PERTH #60
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Tracey I've sent you a PM :)
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BURIALS at St Kilda Cemetery, Victoria:
WHEATLEY ELLEN age 36 years (this is Ellen Jane (Parkin) - wife of James)
Date: 28/12/1890
Location: Other Denominations - Monumental Grave Comp F Grave 177
WHEATLEY ELLEN ROSINA age 6 months
Date: 02/09/1886
Burial Type BURIAL in Public Grave
Location Details Please contact Administration on (03) 8558 8278
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Another Burial at St Kilda Cemetery:
WHEATLEY HENRY JOHN BARHAM age 8months
Date: 24/03/1885
BURIAL Location Details: Please contact Administration on (03) 8558 8278
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Here's the birth that matches the death of the Ellen I gave you in post #10:
WHEATLEY Ellen b. 22/1/1879
Place: Adelaide, District: Ade, Reg: 212/491
Father: James WHEATLEY
Mother: Eleanor PARKIN
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Hi Tracey,
Maud Agnes & Ellen WHEATLEY born 1882 in NSW were twins :D
That notation bracketed together on Henry John's birth certificate next to their names that you couldn't read except for the words '7 years' would be the word or abbreviation for deceased. As Henry born 1889 minus the 7 years equals 1882 :)
I have located their deaths & burials together at Rookwood Cemetery:
WHEATLY ELLEN age 3weeks
Date of Interment: 24 Mar 1882
WHEATLEY MAUD age 3months
Date of Interment: 23 May 1882
Location: Denomination Presbyterian, Section 6B, Grave Number 0004324
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Ancestors of James Wheatley and Ellen Jane
Hi Tracey
Sorry to have been so long in getting back to you but I have been searching hard and have found some 19th century ancestors for James and Ellen. One farmer for you, I think! The PARKIN family is very complicated and I haven't got it very sorted out yet.
If you would like to PM me your email address I can send my thoughts as an attachment - a bit ling-winded to put it all on here.
I would be interested in any comments form more experienced researchers on my conclusion re this surname -
Marriage of James’ Parents
Dec 16 1849,
James WHEATLEY, full age, widower, bricklayer, father William WHEATLEY, labourer
Elizabeth BARRAM, full age, spinster, father John BARRAM, farmer
Registration index for the marriage from Free BMD shows Elizabeth's surname as BURRAM
When I looked closely at the digitised copy of the actual marriage certificate it is difficult to see exactly what Elizabeth’s surname is – could be any of those shown above. Looking at the census entriesI note that Elizabeth’s birthplace is given variously as Shurel, Shurne and Thurne, Norfolk. On Googlemap I found a place called Thurne in Norfolk. Looked at all census entries for Thurne and found a surname BARHAM. Given that this is one of James’ Christian names I think it is a fair bet that her surname may be BARHAM, especially as it ties in with her father being a farmer.
What do others think?
Cheers, Judith
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thank u for finding out that information. yes you are correct about both james and Elizabeth from what i have researched so far Elizabeth is his second wife his first wife died.
will pm u my email addy :)
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Hi Tracey.
Passenger List for the British Enterprise departing Plymouth 12 Jan 1877 arriving Pt Adelaide 4 Apr 1877
WHEATLEY James 26, English, Bricklayer, Ellen 23 and Eliza 5
No Florence Listed with the family
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi Kris
thank u for that. :) i have been sent a copy of the wheatley passenger list. i wonder.. do u think it possible she could of been under florence parkin? parkin being her mothers maiden name and the fact she was born before her parents were married
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Hi Tracey,
Sorry I did not see a Florence PARKIN listed. Even if there was another member of the family with a different surname she would still be listed as travelling on the same ticket. This family only consisted of the 3 members.
Cheers Kris :)
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kris is it at all possible that she came over with them but they didnt put her on the passenger list?
my great aunt said that they arrived with 2 girls. on my great grandfathers birth certificate it states there was an eliza jane and a florence ( that were born in england) that were living at the time.
its doing my head in not knowing.
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I am trying to tie up lose ends. please could someone help me find out what happened to John Martin Doherty. Eliza Jane Doherty nee Wheatleys oldest son
he was born in 1891 could someone help me find out if he had a family or if he died please
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Death:
DOHERTY Jno Martin age 51yrs d. 1942 MELB #7053
Father: Unknown
Mother: Unknown UNKNOWN
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Burial:
Springvale Botanical Cemetery
DOHERTY, JOHN MARTIN
Date of Service: 20/07/1942
Burial Type: BURIAL
Public Grave: Y
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Hey Merlin
Thanks for helping me out again :) is there any way i could know if he had a family? hes the last remaining line that i know about.. did it die out with him?
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what does it mean by public grave??
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The 1931 Victorian electoral roll shows
John Martin DOHERTY living at MBA
MBA - Melbourne Benevolent Asylum Cheltenham was
for the care of the ill and destitute and
is now the Kingston Centre
Raylen
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wow Raylen thanks for that
if it was an asylum would it of been for the mentally ill as well?
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It looks like that there are two John Martin Dohertys born around the same time with the same name. how would i know which one is mine?
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It looks like that there are two John Martin Dohertys born around the same time with the same name. how would i know which one is mine?
???
There is only one John Martin DOHERTY birth registered in Victoria to John DOHERTY & Eliza Jane WHEATLEY which matches the parents names you have given:
DOHERTY Jno Martin b. 1891 PRAHRAN #36327
Father: Jno
Mother: Eliza Jane WHEATLEY
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so when i am searching the census to see if hes married or got family, the john martin that keeps coming up is the same person???
merlin is this guy a batcherlor? it doesnt look like he had a family or descendants.
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ok in census up to 1937 it states that theres a john martin that is a labourer
hes meant to die in 1942
but then there is a John martin doherty that is in the 1943 census and hes a munitions worker.
do u think this is someone completely different?
this is all so confusing
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after the 1943 census theres nothing there. this is so confusing.
he died in 1942 but is in a 1943 census then disappears.. anybody got any ideas?
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Like many government databases or records you are not immediately removed from them until someone informs them that the person is deceased hence the reason why he still appears on the 1943 AEC in VIC but after that he is no longer listed.
The death & burial I gave you of John Martin DOHERTY in 1942 is his & I can't see a marriage for him that fits.
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Thanks Merlin :) i appreciate all the help u have given me.
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Hi can u tell me please if i wanted to see what ship someone went on from Victoria to Western australia.. where would i look
I want to see When James Wheatley came over to western australia. and if his daughter Florence went with him.
I am hoping to find out if Florence was still alive and went to western australia with James Wheatley.
James died over here . so he had to have come over at some stage.
Not sure if theres any record of Florence in Victoria.
She was born in england in 1873 she would of been 16 roughly when my great grandfather was born. her name is written on my grandfathers certificate in 1889 and her mothers death certificate in 1890.
her youngest sister Eleanor Rosina (nellie) married and went to western australia. her husband owned a boarding house. my great grandfather was sent there when he was 12 (1901) and nellie looked after him until he was of age. At some stage their father James Wheatley comes over to western australia. so i am thinking florence came with him.
is there any way that i can check this out?
Thanks Tracey
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You can start here:
Index to Outward Passengers to Interstate, UK, NZ and Foreign Ports 1852-1901
This database is a searchable list of passengers travelling on ships leaving Victoria.
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=42
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Thanks Merlin :) it looks like they are using a lot of mr and miss's whealteys but i will keep looking :) thanks for the help
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Looks for the ports of where they were going, I can see a few for WA & SA also as sometimes they changed ships in SA :)
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merlin i checked out the ones going to wa. there was one who may have been hers. is there anyway i can trace the ships that are after 1901. coz i am thinking they may have come over after.
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Hi
The Outward passenger lists up to 1923 from Victoria are on film but have not been indexed after 1901, it's a work in progress by the PROV I believe, you would need to scroll through the films to find who you are looking for. Unless you can narrow down the date to a matter of months it would be a huge job.
Andy
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thanks Andy
I honestly dont think i can narrow it to a few months. but thank u for responding. I was just hoping that if i saw James Wheatley's name on the passenger list that his daughter Florence may have been on there too.
the only records i have of Florence Wheatley is on my great grandfathers birth certificate saying that she was 16 years of age and that she was born in england. I have a florence parkin (mothers maiden name as parents were not married when she was born) and birth date for her but not sure what happened after.
after florence there is just Charles william barham wheatley. but he disappearted in the boer war so i have no idea how to trace him. have tried a few possibilities but have come up with nothing.
If i could find florence then i think that i have just about found all my ancestors.
Its been so hard to find some of them i just want to put in a big thank u to Merlin and the rest of the wonderful rootschat crew for helping me out ! many many thanks for that
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Also during family history week i had someone look at the birth certificates and death certificates for Ellen Jane and some of her children. the reason why i cant find a florence is because the Florence was born in England and the Flora was born in Australia. I am still thinking SA. any help would be appreciated.
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i would appreciate any help in looking for the death of Eliza Jane Doherty nee Wheatley thank u
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Hi Tracey
I have not been able to find any more than the info I sent you previously but am looking at Florence.
In reply #39 you say that she was born in 1877 but in another place it says 1873. You say also you have a birth for a Florence PARKIN (as her parents were not married when she was born). So can you clarify this for me - are you still looking for Florence? If so could you list the info you already have for her, please. Also where did James and Ellen live in UK before they emigrated.
Cheers, Judith
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hi Judith
i never did find florence. its like she disappeared off the face of the earth.
Her mum and Dad were born in England. they married in 1875 but they had 2 girls before they were married
Eliza jane born 1871 and Florence born 1873
they migrated to australia in 1877, although records say that James and Ellen Jane came over with just one daughter,(eliza jane) my great aunt (who is still alive) has told me on numerous occasions that her grandfather said he arrived with both of his daughters.
i have found a florence parkin born in 1873 in england that fits the description. i know she was alive in 1889 as she was written down as being 16 in 1889 on the birth certificate of my great grandfather Henry.
florences mum Ellen Jane wheatley nee parkin dies at the age of 36 in 1890. Her older sister Eliza jane marries a chap named John Doherty.
Eliza has 2 boys both die.. one at 24 years the other at 52. neither married or had kids.
i would like to know what happened to Eliza Jane Doherty if possible. when she died and where she was buried.
Anyway Florences father James Wheatley moves over to western australia where his daughter Eleanor and son Henry (my great grandfather) lives.
whether Florence stayed in victoria or came over to western australia i have no idea. as i dont have any records of when james came over. maybe if there were records of when he came over , it might tell u if he had his daughter come over with him.
so the only family to remain in Victoria after 1900 was Eliza Jane Doherty nee wheatley
any information about these girls would be awesome Judith.
i was disappointed to find that Eliza janes family branch died. how tragic. i was hoping to find more family. it looks like my great grandfather and his sister Eleanor (that came to wa) are the only surviving branches of our family tree.
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Tracey,
Can you please put back all the details you have deleted from the original post as I know the dates, names etc of all the work that was done for you were there but now they are missing & that's why Judith is not seeing it 8)
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Hi Merlin
The original post contained the names and dates of most of the kids but i will modify it again and try and include what i can.