RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland Resources => Topic started by: aghadowey on Sunday 01 February 09 11:18 GMT (UK)
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The LDS have just added this fantastic resource to their pilot site- Ireland civil registration indexes 1845-1958:
The 'Pilot' website is no longer active - please see reply #52 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,453932.msg4081350.html#msg4081350) in this thread for the latest link[/color]
The site lists coverage and it is worth reading carefully but briefly it should cover the following:
Births 1864-1921 for all Ireland
1922-1958 for Republic of Ireland (Northern Ireland births after 1921 will not be listed here)
Deaths 1864-1921 for all Ireland
1922-1958 for Republic of Ireland (Northern Ireland deaths after 1921 will not be listed here)
Marriages 1845-1864 (only non Catholic marriages- this usually includes Registry Office marriages)
1864-1921 all marriages in Ireland
1922-1958 for Republic of Ireland (Northern Ireland marriages will not be listed here)
As some of you that have tried using the site will know, it can be difficult to get the searches to bring up all the results (remember this is a pilot site and there may hopefully be improvements). Therefore, I am starting this thread to list suggestions for using the site to get the best results.
Suggestions only please here. Requests for specific information will be moved to other threads.
The site has been mentioned already on several threads:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,327925.30/topicseen.html
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,356222.0.html
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=355958.new#new
And some hints here already:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,355762.30.html
Happy searching, aghadowey
Registrar's districts (http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/RegDistricts.htm) NEW
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From a previous topic I've extracted some hints and information:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,355762.30.html
"the search on place seems to be based on the Registration District - e.g. part of Wicklow, and South Co. Dublin is district of Rathdown, this works for me in the place name search.
The registration districts are equivalent to the Poor Law Unions (PLU) which are included in SeanRuad's townland database at www.thecore.com/seanruad
there's a map of these districts here : http://www.rootschat.com/links/05d7/
and a list here : http://www.genfindit.com/irlplu.htm "
-from shanew147
In most databases doing the broadest search with just the name should give the most results and then narrowing down the search criteria with a place should give fewer results but this doesn't seem to be the case here.
Marriages are listed as Residences under Event Types.
"Never choose "New search" always choose "refine search",even if you're changing everything - seems to work for me"
-from eadaoin
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The LDS have just added this fantastic resource to their pilot site- Ireland civil registration indexes 1845-1958:
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=2;t=searchable;c=1408347
The site lists coverage and it is worth reading carefully but briefly it should cover the following:
Births 1864-1921 for all Ireland
1922-1958 for Republic of Ireland (Northern Ireland births after 1921 will not be listed here)
Deaths 1864-1921 for all Ireland
1922-1958 for Republic of Ireland (Northern Ireland deaths after 1921 will not be listed here)
Marriages 1845-1864 (only non Catholic marriages- this usually includes Registry Office marriages)
1864-1921 all marriages in Ireland
1922-1958 for Republic of Ireland (Northern Ireland marriages will not be listed here)
Unfortunately it does not appear to be as clear cut as this. I've done a search on the name Watton, and just found two birth entries from Coleraine, Co. Derry in 1937 (i.e. Northern Ireland). I've been in touch with the public relations manager of FS, who has forwarded my request for specific information on the collection as released, and will provide an update if I get one - I've been told it will be at least tomorrow before I get a reply.
Chris
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Hi Aghadowey thanks for this new suggestions topic,
I'm sure we will all benefit from each others experiences.
I also promise not to mention names from my searches to
illustrate a point. :D
some things I have noted whilst searching.
the earliest I've seen maiden name of mother is on a 1928 birth.
on double barrelled names,try one given name and the first surname
in the field for first name and the second surname in the usual field,
this has brought up additional results in my searches.
Anne
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Technical question:
The site uses Flash to display results. I'd like to copy & paste from search results in order to study them & cross-match. However, I can't seem to do this. Is this just a browser setting or does Flash not allow this?
TIA
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when you click into one particular result you
will see "copy to clipboard" by clicking this and
then ok in the box that comes up you can then
right click and paste into a document on your
computer,even an open blank email that you
have minimised.very handy.
Anne
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Doh!
Thanks for helping. And it's a great feature, so credit to the designers as well.
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I have used this sucessfully to identify my great grandparents marriage details. We had previously come to a complete halt until someone signposted me to this new site.
Not everyone is on the index, however having found my GGfather I then paged through the records and found a matching record for my GGmother who wasn't on the index.
However note that the images seem to be only available on a hit and miss basis. I was lucky the first time, but then they dissappeared. Excellent resource, but lets give them a chance to finish the pilot.
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If you are seaching for a Mc surname, you have to search under McXXX, Mc XXX (ie. with a space) and M'XXX (with an aprostrophe) to get matches for various dates. Still there is a gap in the 1930s so there may be yet another format there.
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Pursebearer
Many thanks for the tips for Mc names. This seems to work as it has located a few more variations of the surname I was looking for. I had already tried a few variations of spelling, but hadn't though to put a space in.
Thanks again
Angela
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This thread mentions several mistakes with placenames in 1911 census:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,353649.0/topicseen.html
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Hope I am posting on right thread. Any tips on searching Catholic Marriages in Northern Ireland after 1920. Or is there an equivalent to BMD like there is on Ancestry.
gjil :)
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If you are searching for a Mc surname, you have to search under McXXX, Mc XXX (ie. with a space) and M'XXX (with an aprostrophe) to get matches for various dates. Still there is a gap in the 1930s so there may be yet another format there.
I have found that omitting the Mc returns all (?) variations - works on McNamara pretty well.
Marc
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Hi
Had a look at this pilot site and sent the link to so many people! - very interesting. Are the index numbers for look up of the actual documents at the General Reg Office in Belfast and Dublin??
Kathy
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Hi
Had a look at this pilot site and sent the link to so many people! - very interesting. Are the index numbers for look up of the actual documents at the General Reg Office in Belfast and Dublin??
Kathy
yes.
the details on the pilot site are basically a transcription of the Index books, which are available in the GRO research rooms. These are split by year/quarter and contain the same details - name, registration district, volume & page. To order a cert from these you give these details to the staff there, and they locate the details in the registration volumes - photocopy the details and you get your cert. If you order using the index details from the familysearch pilot site, the GRO use the same process to find the register details.
Shane
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Has anyone noticed a gap in the data?
Is it meant to be incomplete?
I found one marriage using the full name.
Then I decided to look at all marriage for that year in that place and there were none.
It was a wide scope.
It seems to lack marriages in Wexford for the years 1866 to 1868
Yet I found one using a full name.
(I came across a short fall for sligo as well but I can't remember what year it was now)
Anyone know how complete it is ?
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It is supposed to be complete but I've noticed that if you put in only a surname and then go to refine your search results by type that marriages may not be listed. Perhaps this is connected to the problem you had?
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I've use the site before to find out who married who. But with those 3 years it just won't play the game.
Yet if you put in a very common wexford surname for those years there's no problem. The data is there but it won't pull it in on those 3 years without a name.
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it does seem to work if you put at least a first name .. e.g. I tried for marriages for the name MARY in Co. Wexford in for the years 1866/67/68 and get over 1000 results in each case.
A blank name Co. Wexford marriage search for those years does seem to have a problem, and returns nothing except marriages from slightly later years - although this may be due to the sheer number of results.
I've a feeling that the number of results is restricted to ~5600 (25 per page / 224 pages) .. as I've never seen the number of results pages go above that.
Shane
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I've thought all along that the records are incomplete. I looked for the marriage of my grandparents Michael Saunders and Annette Myles in Dublin in Nov 1897, but neither name is brought up.
And I know that the the record exists in the Dublin GRO because I obtained the certificate there!
I did report it to the LDS but received a rather bureaucratic reply full of gobbledegook......
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I thought there was stuff missing when I joined in on this tread.
Now I think it's some problem with it pulling in certain years on the search.
It would surprise me really, if the odd cert didn't fall by the wayside.
I wouldn't expect no errors made in project so large.
For a moment, I thought love died in 1866 in Wexford.
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I followed the link to "Ireland civil registration indexes 1845-1958", and the appropriate page came up. However no matter which name I put in it tells me that there is no one of that name registered for any event. Not even a Patrick Murphy or a John Smith in all Ireland ?. What am I doing wrong ?
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Wonder if it's an incompatability issue with your browser or something. I searched for Patrick Murphy and got 5,600 entries (think that's their maximum amount per search).
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Thanks for the prompt reply, I use Mozilla Firefox as a browser , but to no avail. What web browser do you use?
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I use Firefox as well and have no problems.
When you get the Irish civil registrations search page are you putting in just a first and last name or have you included other details (place, etc.)?
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When you are typing in the location box just type Ireland and wait until the drop down box comes up, then click on Ireland, after that you can then use the filters to narrow down the search.
Dont know why it does it, always has, but if you type Ireland and then click search it comes up with virtually nothing.
Tony
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If you are searching on the Irish civil registrations search page there's no need to put in Ireland but it is important to narrow down county by using 'place' on results page.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=1408347;p=collectionDetails
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and Mozilla works fine as a browser.
eadaoin
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I have read that births that were at sea and births to Irish parents abroad, were recorded in the Irish BMD General Registry. Are these births part of the main index or is there a separate index to these 'special' births? Thank you.
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they're at the end of each book - don't know up to what date they did this.
eadaoin
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see this page on the GRO website, for details they hold on births at sea, abroad etc.. http://www.groireland.ie/research.htm
I believe they are listed at the back of each index book as eadaoin mentioned. Some of the books also have addendums and late registration entries at the back.
Shane
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Bless you both for the explanations. :) Next step: I live in the U.S., how do I find someone in Dublin to hire to search the indexes for me?
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what dates, names are you looking for?
I'm hoping to look at births 1903-1927 over the next 4-6 weeks (for probably the 75th time!!) .. I don't mind having a look at the end of the books each time. But it won't be very fast.
(and if real life, as in impending grandchild, gets in the way, I may have to abandon family history for a bit!)
eadaoin
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I very much understand how life activities pre-empt the plans we make :) My own family history research has been put on hold several times over the years. I am looking for the birth of Thomas Joseph Royce (or spelling variations). The actual birthdate is 21 Jan. The year range is 1872-1877. I have gathered every U.S. record on him that I can find. Each one is a little different on his age at the time of the record. Each record states that he was born in Ireland, parents Irish. He first shows up on the U.S. 1900 Census, single,age 25, stating that he immigrated in 1878. I have not found the birth entry in the standard General Registry index. I would much appreciate a more in depth search. Thanks.
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Hi all,while reading through this topic about births etc at sea
I happened to have the L.D.S pilot search box open so decided
to put 'At Sea' instead of place and did'nt fill in any other search
term and was amazed to get 224 results.The few results I've
seen so far simply say "Birthplace. At Sea" but one result said
" Birthplace Atlantic Ocean".I'm going to try again with some
surnames and see what results I get,maybe thats where some
of our missing ancestors have been hiding although so far it
appears the records are american.
Anne
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Thanks all! I am so glad to have found this Forum. I can't even remember how I happened upon it but it has already been more helpful than years of posting on other message boards.
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sandiego
I won't be looking at those years 1872-1877 in the GRO for some months (one has to pay a small sum for each 5 years).
However I looked at the microfilms today for 1872/73/74 in the Dublin city Library. Would you believe - they didn't film the at sea, abroad, army births!!
though I'm sure they're in the back of the actual books ..
I suggest you put a request on the Ireland Board .. something like ...
"GRO Lookup please 1872-1877 .. army etc births"
say that you've already looked at the ordinary indexes, and would someone please look at the back of each year
regards eadaoin
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Thanks Anne and eadaoin! You have both been most helpful. :)
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The Births Deaths and Marriages for Ireland on familysearch.org pilot have been updated to include mother's maiden name for births. which is wonderful as it really narrows the search. The last update was 27th of April 2010
Sooty24
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Take a look at the familysearch.org pilot BDM for Ireland. It has been updated recently and now includes the maiden name of mother on birth certs. Its great
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For the first time I can now type in a father and a mother and pull up a list of children. It doesn't work for all couples and it doesn't find all children, but *if* there is data there it is hugely helpful when I want to start constructing a family group sheet.
Prior to that I would go to Advanced Search, type in the father's name and the mother's name, then start randomly guessing children's names. That method has actually found me several people, but I felt like a fool doing it.
In addition, I see there is more granularity in specifying location. I can't tell you how GREAT that is! I can now narrow my search in a registration subdistrict within a PLU. Skibbereen is a HUGE place! :P
I was at a local FHC yesterday and told one of the ladies there working on the indexing what I am actually able to do now. I think it made her feel good.
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Following the guidelines posted I have located 7 births which I hadn't been able to locate before.
I do find it a bit misleading as when I click on Ireland Births, 1864-1881, it takes me to a search page claiming
Ireland Births and Baptisms, 1620-1881.
I haven't located any Births before 1864 on the names I've searched for.
Mick
P.S. I haven't yet been able to bring up all 7 results in one search. 5 is the best so far.
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Thanks for the links, hints and tips - I'm going to give them all a go in my Irish quest. Some day, on some site I might get a positive result ....
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I've been trying to find my way around in the familysearch site by using the T&E method (trial and error ;D) and seem to get better at it. What puzzles me though is when I have positively identified the birth of a female and then want to look up her marriage date and husband, I never know whether to use her maiden name or not.
Are the marriages registered for a woman under her new name or her maiden name?
If Miss Jane Smith married a Joe Soap, do I look for Jane Soap or Jane Smith to find her marriage registration?
2nd question; if there is just a reference to a marriage in the above case (no husband's name, no mother's maiden name etc), would I get further details from the original record? It does not seem to make sense when a marriage is indexed but the spouse is not listed.
3rd question; when a mother's name is listed in a birth registration, it is sometimes a double name, one of the father & husband, the other one is - I assume - her maiden name. Is there an order in the indexing of these double names? \His name first and then hers or vice versa?
Maria B
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1) bride's are recorded and indexed in marriage records under their maiden surname
2) to see the full details of a marriage you need to order a cert from the GRO - see : Details included on a Marriage Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html) and Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433040.0.html)
To find a possible marriage, search for the bride and groom in the index separately and then check for reference cross-matches. The details that must match for a possible marriage are : year/quarter, registration district, volume & page
3) Births are indexed under the child's name. Births in the index from the late 1920s (Republic of Ireland only), include the mother's maiden surname. A birth cert will show the full details : Details included on a Birth Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433041.0.html)
see also :
Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html)
Shane
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3rd question; when a mother's name is listed in a birth registration, it is sometimes a double name, one of the father & husband, the other one is - I assume - her maiden name. Is there an order in the indexing of these double names? \His name first and then hers or vice versa?
Sometimes the LDS site lists mother's name as her maiden name and other times includes her married name. The example below should help.
Father John Smith, mother Mary Jones. LDS lists mother as Mary Jones or Mary Smith Jones.
The reason is the way the certificate is laid out. In the column for the mother's details the certificate will actually say Mary Smith formerly Jones.
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Shane and Aghadowey, thank you very much for your advice and help and the links to the various threads.
I'll have another go at the records.
Maria
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Further question re ordering research records/copies.
Can the GRO also supply copies of records for Irish citizens from other collections, namely Ireland-VR, Ireland-EASy and Ireland-ODM?
Maria
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GRO and GRONI have nothing to do with LDS database although some of the LDS records are obviously from the civil registrations.
See Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433040.0.html
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I am using familysearch.org to search the Irish civil registrations for births. I note that there are several references on this thread to getting the parents names in the results but I am not, only the childs christian/surname, reg dist. vol and page details.
Am I doing somthing wrong or has the display changed ?
Without the parents names it isn't possible to identify the correct birth for ordering photocopies
Wyanga
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Hi,The civil registration index will not show the parents
except for the mothers maiden name after about 1928
for irish records,using advanced search if you know this.
Other sections of familysearch.org have records which
include parents names but these, in some cases are
submitted records and in some collections parish records.
The link below should go to a list of the records available
on the site and if you check the details for each collection
before you make your search you will be aware of the limitations
and will help you decide which collection suits your needs best.
Anne
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list
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Taidquest
Thank you Anne. The names I am looking at are included in the civil Registration records in the 1900's and don't appear in any of the other collections.
Thankyou for your reply
Wyanga
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The newest version of LDS database has 4 sections for Irish records.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&countryId=1927084
1) Ireland Births and Baptisms, 1620-1881 - extracted birth records which record parents' names
2) Ireland Deaths, 1864-1870 - extracted records
3) Ireland Marriages, 1619-1898 - extracted records
4) Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958 - goes up to 1921 for Northern Ireland counties
#1-3 are extracted records and not complete. You are looking at #4 which is the index.
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Aghadowey
Yes you are correct I am looking at the Indexes. It was just that I had got the impression from earlier discussion relating to the pilot site that people had been getting parents names. I now see that these would have come from the earlier extracted entries.
I will have to contain my frustration at having all those names available, but not knowing who they belonged to. ???
I don't have enough information yet on where they might have been living to obtain photocopies from GROS
Wyanga
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I have had someone search the death index at GRONI for me and there are some deaths that he was unable to find . They are likely to be in the late 1900's period.
My query is : Does the searchable index capture names up to the present, or is there a limit to the period that the records have been indexed to ?
Wyanga
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I explained this in September (see reply#52)- the online index goes up to 1921 for Northern Ireland counties.
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Aghadowey
I am not referring to the online index.
I am referring to the searchable index at GRONI in Belfast
when one visits and conducts a search
Are these up to the present for Births, Marriages and Deaths ?
Wyanga
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This is the item on the GRONI web site, but it does not say if the indexes are up to the present date.
General Register Office Northern Ireland (GRONI)
GRONI holds civil birth, adoption, death, marriage and civil partnership records. It also maintains a public search room where you can search computerised indexes. The index provides name, date and place of event.
Registration indexes held by GRONI
•Births registered in Northern Ireland from 1 January 1864
•Adoptions recorded in the Adopted Children Register Northern Ireland from 1 January 1931
•Deaths registered in Northern Ireland from 1 January 1864
There is often a time lag for the most recent years when indexes are created. I am trying to establish the end year that is searchable.
Wyanga
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hi does anyone have any tips for bdm's in county fermanagh?? i'm sure how i prove or dis prove a ancestor's year of birth
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I am new to this facility so I hope it's ok to give this info.
General Records office in Belfast offer both an online search service and also a search in person on their computers .
I have done both.
Indexes free to search. For more info the cost is 1 credit which works out at 40 pence
Or to see copy of actual certificate cost 5 credits = £2 sterling.
Plenty of info and help available on site and examples of copies also given.
If you search groni. You will be able to navigate and search online.
You might already know this. But just in case. Hope this helps
Sorry £7 charge to use gro computers in their offices
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Hi thanks for that info will look more at it later on but will keep up my searching thanks