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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Roscommon => Topic started by: barbinoz on Saturday 26 March 05 05:54 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone point me in the right direction to finding out more about my 2nd gt Grandma? ???
Her name was CATHERINE HAGGART, she was born in Roscommon 1835 he Dad was Patrick & he was a weaver.
She married HUGH GALLAGHER (a labourer) in 1854 in Birmingham.
They lived in Brum the rest of their lives, bringing up at least 8 children. Catherine died in 1900.
A family story says that she ran away to England to escape an arranged marriage to a wealthy but elderly horse dealer. The story also has Hugh as a Doctor, I've disproved this one, he only made his mark on the wedding certificate & worked as a labourer all his life!
Any help would be welcome
Barbara ;D
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Hi
I lately found that my Grandma Collins was born Nora Cox and her Mum was Mary Gallagher born c 1857 in Brum. Could she be a sister to Hugh?
I hve lately taught at least 6 of the Brum Gallaghers so I was fascinated to find there might be a connection.
Roscommon stands in my Grandpa Colins (aka Collerin) family history too! They were all memebers of St Annes on Alcester Street.
Colin
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Here you are. Only Haggart in the county in 1850 (1848- 54). PATRICK HAGGARD, CLOONLEE village, CIVIL PARISH of KILTULLAGH. I believe this parish is on the Galway/Roscommon/Mayo border in the Ballymoe/ Ballinlough area. There are a few Gallaghers, various spellings in this large parish, including 1 spelled " GAU....." in Cloonlee. The name HAGGARD has vanished by 1901, but may be still there as HEGARTY or Hagerty.
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Hi Colin,
I tried to reply to you off list but my message disappeared! ???
Anyway, there were 2 Mary Gallaghers on the 1881 census one is Hugh & Catherine's daughter Mary Ann born in 1856 in Brum & the other is Mary daughter of David & Mary Gallagher. She was born in 1857.
It would be lovely if she was Hugh's daughter!
They probably went to the same Church, St Annes.
Hugh Gallagher came from Leitrim, a neighbouring county.
I had a laugh when you said you had taught some modern day Gallaghers, I hope for your sake they weren't as feisty & wild as my mob apparently were!
The two boys especially, Francis & Hubert, were by all accounts "Hard drinking & fighting men, typical Irish"!!
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Dwelling: Ct 47/8 Irving St
Census Place: Birmingham, Warwick, England
Source: FHL Film 1341712 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2975 Folio 47 Page 46
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
David GALLAGHER M 50 M Cork, Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Labourer Coal
Mary GALLAGHER M 50 F Kildare, Ireland
Rel: Wife
Mary GALLAGHER U 24 F Birmm, Warwick, England
Rel: Daur
Occ: Warehouse Girl Gilder And Plater
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Dwelling: 21 Green Street
Census Place: Aston, Warwick, England
Source: FHL Film 1341720 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3012 Folio 119 Page 3
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Catherine GALLAGHER W 46 F Rosscommon, Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: No Trade
Mary Ann GALLAGHER U 25 F Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Dau
Occ: Umbrella Maker
Sarah GALLAGHER U 23 F Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Dau
Occ: Umbrella Maker
Catherine GALLAGHER U 20 F Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Dau
Occ: Umbrella Maker
Hubert GALLAGHER U 18 M Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Brass Caster
Elizabeth GALLAGHER U 17 F Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Dau
Occ: Umbrella Maker
Francis GALLAGHER U 15 M Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Nail Caster
Margarett GALLAGHER U 13 F Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Dau
Occ: Scholar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Best wishes
Barbara :D
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Hi Ros,
Thank you for your message, I tried replying off list but again it disappeared! ???
Hopefully you'll get to see this. ;)
I'm really grateful for the info on Patrick Haggard, it looks as if he's mine, it gives me something more to go on.
What was the record from, a census or a parish record?
This is such a great site with lovely people posting!
Take care
Barbara :D
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I tried to reply to your personal message, but I don't know if it travelled. Cloonlee is half a km. south of the town/village of Ballinlough. That is about 600 yards, but the map seems old, so it is probably part of the town now. The RC parish is also named Kiltullagh and the parish church is in Ballinlough. In the late 1700s- early 1800s, many landlords imported weavers from the north of the country to start cottage industries, so this may be the origin of the Haggart name in the area. There are less than 10 Scottish surnames long established in Roscommon/Galway border parishes in the 20 miles s. of Ballinlough. Otherwise, some official from Scotland gave local surnames a new spelling.
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It looks to me as if my Mary Gallagher is Hugh and Ruths Mary Ann. The name and age fits, the location fits too. I will contact my former pupils who are variously Martin, David and Christian G and ask if any of their Dads are in to the Family History.
Colin
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Hi Ros,
Thank you again for your messages, I'm having trouble sending personal messages to people at the moment, don't know what I'm doing wrong!
You've given me a lot to think about!
I was very interested in what you say about the Quack Doctors. they would rely on knowledge handed down rather than book learning wouldn't they?
I expect many people would eye these people with a certain suspicion too.
More intrigue, was Hugh running away from some malpractice accusations?
As to Alexander Haggart, I was in touch with his gr.. grandson a while back but sadly we came to no conclusions or connections. This chap, also Alex confirmed his Haggarts came from Scotland & that there were no Haggarts left in Roscommon now.
Thanks again for your help.
Barbara :D
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My father was James Haggart from Roscommon. (b. 1890) His father was Alexander Haggart (b.1856) who had come from New Scone, Scotland, and HIS father (also Alexander) was a weaver. When I was in Roscommon (about 1994) my cousin Patrick Haggard was still living there, as are other descendants of Alexander Haggart. Am curious about who would have been the grandson of Alexander Haggart that you heard from.
Sandy
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georgiasandy........I too have a cousin Patrick Haggart in Roscommon. His mother Ellen Curley was my father's sister. Perhaps we two are cousins too!
My email is Email address removed by moderator to prevent spam - please contact by personal message if you want to get in touch.
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The RC parish is also named Kiltullagh and the parish church is in Ballinlough.
There's a graveyard adjoining Ballinlough parish church
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My fathers birth mothers name is Anna Haggart born 1906 in Roscommon. I found the 1901 cenus shows Alexander and Margaret Haggart had eight children. Is it possible they had more? Could Anna be one of them?
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Hi, This Link migh be useful.
It's from the Roscommon Graveyard and shows the headstone of Patrick Haggart & his wife Margaret & some of their children.
http://www.igp-web.com/igparchives/1headstones/roscommon/war-graves-roscommon/target1.html
Their son Robert Alexander is buried in france.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=513447
Alexander Haggart came from Scotland and was employed as a gamekeeper.
I remember meeting Pat Haggart & the Curleys from Roscommon many times in the company of my father (a grandson of Alexander Haggart).
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Just some further information in relation to the above
From the Irish Census of 1901
http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com/cgi-bin/newcen-srch
Townland: Mote Demesne
Parish: Kilmeane
Barony: Athlone
County: Roscommon
Description: Household
Head of household Surname:Haggart
Head of household Given:Alexander(43) - Alexander was born in Scotland
Head of household Occupation: gamekeeper
Other occupants
Margaret(33)-William(14)-Elizabeth(12)-James(10)-Isabella(9)-Margaret (8) -Robert(7)-Jane(5)-Alan(4)-Alice(2)-Kathleen(1)
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Name: HAGGART, ROBERT ALEXANDER
Initials: R A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Northumberland Fusiliers
Unit Text: 13th Bn.
Age: 21
Date of Death: 03/10/1915
Service No: 9179
Additional information: Son of Alexander and Margaret Haggart, of Mote Park, Roscommon. Native of Perthshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: I. 57.
Cemetery: FOUQUIERES CHURCHYARD EXTENSION
regards mary.
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GalwayGuy,
I'm thinking you must be a Connor. If so, you're a cousin, and I stayed in your grandparents' house for a few days in 1994, while it was vacant.
Sandy
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Hello to all Haggarts and relations. Just to let you know there are 2 Haggarts in Roscommon. Robert Haggart, my Father, is living just outside Strokestown after being in London for almost 40 years, and as mentioned previously, Patrick Haggart, his brother, is living in Tremane.It is fascinating to have read all your messages and to have discovered quite an extended family!!!!!!
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I am searching for my father's birthmother's family. Through research I have the name Anna Haggart born 1906 in Roscommon Ireland. She came to the United States in 1923. My father was born in 1927 in NYC. My father had a sibling born prior to him. I searched the 1911 census from Roscommon and found nothing with that name? I also found out she had some relatives in Ontario, Canada. My father will be 82 yrs old and has always dreamed about finding his relatives. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Yes georgiasandy, I am a Conor from Galway :-)
tremane - It is many years since I last laid eyes on Pat Haggart. I never had the pleasure of meeting Robert.
marymadge - Its a long time ago now, but I remember one of the Curleys being a regular visitor to the Galway races and as a very young boy visiting their home place with my father.
These are two photographs that I have of Alexander Haggart.
I do not know the dates or locations of the photographs.
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HELLO. THIS IS FOR ALAN HAGGART. I AM YOUR DAD'S COUSIN, MARY CURLEY. YOUR MUM AND DAD LIVED WITH US FOR A WHILE WHEN THEY CAME TO ENGLAND. MY DAD MATTHEW (MATTY) CURLEY WAS ROBERT AND PAT'S UNCLE. THE LAST TIME I WAS IN ROSSCOMMON WAS ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO AND WENT TO VISIT PAT AT THE OLD HOME. CHRISTMAS WISHES AND HAPPY NEW YEAR :D MARY CURLEY.
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Hi Mary
Thanks for the message.
I remember Matty and Sarah very well and I think of them every time I pass Grange Road on my way to the Spurs!
I am going to Roscommon in the New Year so I will send your regards to my Dad and Pat
Merry Christmas
Alan Haggart
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Hello Mary this is Paschals wife Linda Curley could you please get in touch with us, and let us know your Essex address because we have lost it and please .say hello to Donna hoping to hear from you soon Linda and Paschal Curley
ps we,re also cousins of Pat and Robert haggart
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Welcome to Rootschat. You aren't allowed to put addresses, emails, phone numbers, etc. here but after you've 2/3 posts you can use the PM (personal message) system to contact each other privately.
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A work mate of mine is very interested in researching the 1st World War. I gave him the information on Robert Alexander Haggart and this s what he found.
Haggart, Robert Alexander Private No. 9179 13th ( Service ) Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers. 3rd Son of Alexander Haggart of Mote Park, Roscommon, Gamekeeper. Born Mote Park, 19th March 1894. Educated at Ballymurray National School, Roscommon.
Enlisted 15 September 1914. Landed in France on 9th September 1915 and served with The Expeditionary Force in France and died 3rd October 1915 from wounds received in action at Hill 70 during the Battle of Loos on 27th September 1915.
Buried in Bethune Cemetery.
Hope you all find this interesting if not a bit sad
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I recently found this thread having discovered that I have an Irish connection in my tree. Unfortunately it looks like nobody is still active on the site who contributed before :(
Hugh Gallagher and Catherine Haggart were my g-g-g-grandparents, their daughter Catherine married George Jones in Birmingham in 1883.
I have quite a bit of information about later generations and would be delighted to hear from anyone who is related to the Haggarts/Gallaghers.
Bev
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Hi Bev I tried to answer your message but something were wrong and it showed error. I don't know if you got it or not so I'll copy it here!
Hi Bev, thanks for getting in touch! Yes we're talking about the same family!
George Jones and Catherine Gallagher were my g grandparents, my grandmother was their daughter Florence (Flossie/Florrie). She married Henry Victor Turner. They had 2 sons Sidney and my Dad - Frank (Francis)
So which of the Jones children are you from?
As you've probably guessed my name is Barbara and I'm in Australia but was brought up in Coventry.
I'd love to swap notes and hear about your side of this large family
Looking forward to hearing from you!
Barb
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Hello Barb
I got half a message from you !
Have sent you a PM.
Great to find a distant relative :D
Bev
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Hi Barbinoz
Was one of the 8 Mary born 1857 Birmingham, d. June Q 1906 Aston Birmingham?
If so thats my Gt Grandmother!
C
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Hi Colin
Did you discover which of the two Gallagher families you are descended from?
If it's indeed the Hugh and Catherine (née Haggart) who Barb is researching, then we are related too. I am descended from Hugh and Catherine's daughter Catherine b. 1862.
I've made a bit of progress with the Gallaghers but none with the Haggarts :(
Bev
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Hi, you were quick!
I think I have concluded, from the family I found in the 1881 Census RG11 2975/47 that my Mary was probably the one with David as father and Mary as mother simply becasue she is a warehouse girl gilder and plater and that was what her husband, Mr Cox who she married 2 years later also did. She is also living with her Mum and Dad at Ct 47/8 Irving St, Birmingham which is not that far from Alcester street.
David is aged 50 and from Cork while Mary is aged 50 from Kildare.
Any thoughts apart fro sadness they are not your family!
C
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Hi Colin and also Bev, just seen this, looks like you have it sorted.
"Our" Mary Ann Gallagher married an Isaac Hunt and died in Barwell (Hinkley) Leicestershire in 1916.
Isaac was a boot and shoe finisher and their 4 children were in the same kind of trade.
Good luck in your research, shame they're not the same family!
Shows you really need to be a detective to get the answers in family history!
Barb
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Hi Barb ;D
Thanks for confirming that, having seen Colin's posts I was in the process of tying down Mary Ann's husband.
Hope all is will in wintry Oz :)
Sorry we're not related, Colin!
Bev
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Hi there Bev, if you have a look on my Ancestry tree I have Mary Ann on there with hubbie and kids, I'm pretty sure I've got the right one. Sometimes I come unstuck but she was the only Mary Ann Gallagher of the right age & birthplace.
Let me know if you have any trouble getting on it.
Take care
Barb
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Maybe of interest.
Haggards lived in the gamekeepers lodge on the Moate (Mote) Estate of Lord Crofton just on the edge of Roscommon Town right beside Tremane. I wonder is that one of the men in the old photos posted earlier. As far as I know one of his daughters still lives in Roscommon Town.
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Reviving this old thread because in the search for Haggarts in Roscommon I have made a bit of a breakthrough with Patrick Haggart, the father of Catherine who married Hugh Gallagher in Birmingham.
Thanks to Ancestry's free weekend I have found Patrick still alive in 1846 in the Poor Relief records, recorded as 'a weaver in poor circumstances'. He is residing in Cloonlee townland, Kiltullagh. This is the first time I have ever found a record of the man's existence.
Rather a basic question, I know, but since this was the era of the potato famine, would I be right in thinking that if Patrick died in the following years, as a poor person his death and burial may not have been recorded?
Thanks
Bev
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Doesn't need to be the era of the famine for a death and burial not to be recorded, even when civil registration started many deaths were not registered.
If he died in a workhouse and if the workhouse records survived it's possible his death might have been recorded.
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Thank you. :)
I am feeling quite embarrassed now because in my excitement I didn't spot that this info had already been found way back in 2005 :-[
Bev
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Hi.
My reply is aimed at Marymadge.
Would you be willing to tell me more about the Curley family that you are related to?
I’m trying to trace the family of my grandmother’s unknown biological father.
After a load of DNA research, the name Curley comes up a lot. Mostly Irish immaigrants in Australia, but some traced back to Roscommon, Ireland.
I believe a man from the Curley family is the father of my grandmother.
My theory is that this man visited the Bideford, north Devon area, met my grandmother and they had a dalliance (!) around January 1914. He probably didn’t know he left my Ggran pregnant.
Anyway, feel free to message me. I’ll be grateful for any info you can give me.
Thanks