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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: KitCarson on Saturday 08 May 10 11:43 BST (UK)
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George Gray Watson died in Greenock Infirmary on 6 August 1920 aged 59. The informant was a clergyman at St Marys, Greenock. George was an accountant and in earlier records is shown as being both a Bank Clerk and stockbroker. Earlier records also have him living in London and the Rothes area where he was born.
As George was presumed to have died in either America or Canada in 1908, it would be interesting to find out what he was doing in Greenock in 1920.
To add complexity, it appears that he had abandoned his wife and child in Morayshire around 1908 and his wife was granted a divorce in 1915.
Is there any way of finding out where he was living before being admitted to the Infirmary? Would he likely appear in trade directories or maybe he appeared in the local newspaper advertising his services.
Does anyone know how I can gain access to possible sources of information?
Kit
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Not sure if this will help but there is a George Gray Watson on the incoming passenger list in 1919 from New York to Liverpool. Born 1862.
He was an Accountant and going to his brother in Elgin, Scotland. He is coming in on the ship the Carmania. He gives his last place of permanent residence as Canada.
Tressle
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Thanks Tressle, looks like my man. Did you get that from Ancestry or another resource?
He had a twin brother, William, living in the Elgin area but I wonder what made him stop in Greenock.
Kit
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Hi Kit
this is only a possibility
with the informant being a clergyman from St Mary's parish
this sounds to me that George may have been living at the little sisters of the poor (nursing Home)
some people paid to go into the little sisters
at that time I think it was in Union Street Greenock (St Mary's Parish)
I dont know if they would still have records from that time though
does his death cert give a usual address on it
Elaine
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Hi Elaine
I only have the record from ScotlandsPeople and it's a little difficult to read. Now that you mention it though, under 'Infirmary Greenock' it has @***** Baxter Street'. I took that as being the address of the Infirmary but it actually might say 'formerly, Baxter Street'.
My daughter has started to call him 'Bad George' for deserting his family but who knows what makes people do things. It would be quite sad to think that he was destitute on his return from Canada.
Kit
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Kit
Baxter Street (East End of Greenock) is'nt in the St Mary's parish (West End) so
it may be possible that he was in the little sisters
if he had no-one to look after him if he was ill (not neccessarily destitute)
I think you can still contact the little sisters at the Union Street address
have you tried looking for a Will for him on SP
I know what you mean there are always reasons people do what they do
and without getting his side of the story we cant judge
I dont think there would be an obituary in the local paper if he didn't have any family
in the area but not sure if it may have been reported in the national paper to see if any family
came to claim him.
Elaine
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yes just wanted to add my voice to Elaine's. One of my ancestors died in the poorhouse in Glasgow. But on researching it I found that the lady had had a stroke and needed constant care. She was evidently partially paralysed by the stroke and clearly was unable to remain at home. Even families with money (as hers did) sometimes ended up in unfortunate places do to illness or other reasons. Think it's not always destitution which takes them there.
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Kit, try the Watt Library Index, Greenock....Skoosh.
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Maggiemck - thanks for your insight. You're right, there must be plenty of different reasons why people end up in these circumstances.
Skoosh - cheers for that. Will try the Watt Library and see what they may have.
Kit
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Hi Elaine
I only have the record from ScotlandsPeople and it's a little difficult to read. Now that you mention it though, under 'Infirmary Greenock' it has @***** Baxter Street'. I took that as being the address of the Infirmary but it actually might say 'formerly, Baxter Street'.
My daughter has started to call him 'Bad George' for deserting his family but who knows what makes people do things. It would be quite sad to think that he was destitute on his return from Canada.
Kit
Normally on a death entry, if the person has died in hospital it gives the 'usual residence' underneath the name of the hospital. So I would say that Baxter Street was where he lived.
It appears to have been bombed in the 40s
http://www.flickr.com/photos/98346459@N00/2771452866/
A look at it on google street view shows it looks like the houses were built up again.
The Watt should have voters rolls for the 1920s if you can decipher the number.
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Is it possible he got the boat from Liverpool to Greenock and became unwell?
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Kit do you know George's parents names
I have had a look through the Inverclyde BMD's
the George Gray Watson that tressle found
this may be the parents of that George
Matthew Watson and Marion Gray married 1874 in Greenock
there are plenty of Watsons on this site but it doesn't go up to 1920
and there is no mention of Baxter Street although there are some in the same area
Elaine
http://www.inverclyde.gov.uk/GetAsset.aspx?id=fAAxADEANgA0ADAAfAB8AEYAYQBsAHMAZQB8AHwAMAB8AA2
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Thanks for all your advice. Plenty to work on now.
Elaine - George's parents were William Watson and Isabella Forbes and for generations the family were based around Rothes and Banff. I can only presume, as sancti suggests, that he took a boat from Liverpool to Greenock. I wonder if his illness prevented him from continuing his journey to his brother in Elgin.
Kit
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Hi Kit
Apologies for not answering your earlier question, only just re-read the thread and realised you had asked it. Yes I did get the information re the shipping list from A.....y.
Tressle :)
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Hi,
Is it possible that it is Baker Street rather than Baxter Street? Don't know if this puts it in St Mary's Parish or not.
And is it possible that although the destination of the boat was Liverpool that it actually stopped at Greenock first?
Or maybe he had been to visit his family in Elgin and he was on his way back to Canada.
If you look at the cause of death, you might be able to get an idea of how long he had been ill for which might help work out why he was there.
You could also try local newspapers in Canada to see if there is an obit plus also ships lists for Canada in 1920 to see if his name is on the list but scored out as a no-show.
Finally, you could contact the medical archivist at the Mitchell Library in Glasgow to see if he holds any records which would help. Could the cause of death pinpoint the infirmary in which he died? ENT, Eye, Royal, Larkfield, Fever, private nursing home? You would need to know this to ask the archivist for information.
:)
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Looking at the original post again, the date of death is Aug 1920 and the Ancestry record gives the journey from Canada as 1919. It is possible that he took unwell on the return journey after visiting his brother.
What was the cause of death?
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GreySeagull and Sancti, to answer your questions:
Not a good image of the record but looks like Baxter, not even sure is its street, but road doesn't really fit with the amount of letters.
Looks like he died of 'Liber (liver?) P*****ia. No timeframe offered. I'll see if my daughter can help me post and image. May just have to bite the bullet and buy the certificate. Don't know if there is likely to be more than one Infirmary in Greenock at the time, but can make some enquiries. The Mitchell Library sounds like a good option. Maybe have a day out over in the West and do some rooting around.
I'll do as you suggest and look for any newspaper articles in Canada.
Isn't it funny how we become so involved in our 'ancestors' lives. It looks as if GGW wasn't actually a relative anyway. He appears to have deserted his wife around 1908 and then his wife had a child in 1910 who she gave up for adption. Its the adopted child, Helen Edgar or Watson as she is recorded, who is the link.
Many thanks for your suggestions and please keep them coming. Kit
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My wiz of a daughter has helped me to attach an image of George's death record. As you can see, portions of it are not too easy to read. We now think the cause of death could be Lober Pneumonia?
Your thoughts are very welcome. Kit
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Yes iot looks like Lobar Pneumonia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobar_pneumonia
I wonder if he had been ill for some time and living in the area as the clergyman who reported his death knew his parents details
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the address is definately Baxter Street
Elaine
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Hi,
Most likely hospital then is Greenock Royal Infirmary, Duncan Street. Possibly though, the fever/infectious diseases hospital (called Gateside in the 60s) might be the one, though don't know what the address would be. This was out in the country rather than in the town, so a better choice if he was recovering. However, if it was acute, then Duncan Street would have been the one.
If you are thinking of going west, make an appointment with registrar to see original book - details might be clearer. And before that, take a trip to the cemetery and ask the staff at the office there (up beside the crematorium) if they can give you the burial details. This might help confirm the address and/or cause of death. And, if he was not normally resident in the area, the relationship of the lair owner would be interesting.
A trip on a Thursday or Friday will also let you fit in a visit to the Mitchell to see the medical archivist, though suggest you contact them in advance to order information if they have any.
Although there is a Res address given, this might have been a lodging house while he was waiting for his boat and where he took ill. Maybe someone can tell you if there are voter's rolls available, and you could check those too.
It may have been that George was told he was dying or likely to, and therefore provided the information which appears on his death certificate. If he was a businessman, he would have to contact his employer or employees. It may also be that he carried his birth certificate with him as he was travelling: when did passports become the norm? though the knowledge of his two marriages, and particularly his divorce would have to have been passed on, possibly as next of kin on the hospital admission information. How soon after the death was it registered? If that day or next, info obviously ready to hand. If a bit linger, they might have had to track it down.
:)
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I would say George did die in the infirmary in Duncan Street
the death cert would have said Gateside Hospital if he died there
If George was living somewhere like the little sisters
he would have provided all the information to them when he
went there, as the cert say's he was the widower of Elizabeth Gordon
I think it is unlikely he would have put her down as next of kin
this may be of help to you
http://www.archives.gla.ac.uk/gghb/collects/ac9.html
Elaine
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Thanks for all the valuable information which will give me plenty of options for further research.
The Moray Libindx site has a headstone ref at Rothes Churchyar (Ro247) which includes George. Not sure whether this means he/they are buried there or are listed in rememberance. Others on the same reference are:
Alexander Watson (Brother) 1852-16/6/1861
James Watson (Brother) 1846-26/4/1866
Annie Watson (Aunt) 1834-31/5/1877
Isabella Watson (mum) 1824-16/9/1882
William Watson (dad) 1827-19/4/94
Jessie Dawson (nee Watson) (sister) 1857-10/2/1897
Eliza Watson (Aunt) 19/6/1836-6/61906
George Gray Watson 1870 (incorrect should be 1861)-6/8/1920
Kit
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Is it possible that he was there because that's simply where his ship docked? It was one of the main ports and anyone arriving there ill would have been put into hospital there. He may not have been living there at all.
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Good point cmcderment. I suppose I'll never know for sure. Kit
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My daughter has started to call him 'Bad George' for deserting his family but who knows what makes people do things.
Kit
Too true Kit. I had a similar situation with my GG grandfather and went off him for a while. He went off to America leaving behind a wife and four children with a fifth being born in a poorhouse. However further digging shows that he was visiting his brother possibly with a view to finding work and taking the rest of the family over. It appears he dallied too long and that last child wasn't his. So we can't really jump to conclusions and it's difficult to know what was going on in people's everyday lives back then.
Then again, if all had gone according to plan, the family would have followed him to America, my great gran wouldn't have met my great grandfather and I wouldn't be here. I expect those twists of fate apply to all of us on here.