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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: SamnJoan on Monday 10 May 10 18:56 BST (UK)
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I have a Richard Harding Butler, b1829 in Dublin, Ireland, and wife Harriet nee Pender b1830 in Falmouth, Cornwall. They emigrated to Australia somewhere between their marriage in Liverpool in 1852 and the birth of their first child in 1856.
They had five children born in Australia:
Richard Pender Butler b1856 Victoria
Harriet Harding Butler b1858 Beechworth
John James Butler b1859 Beechworth
Peter Duncan Butler b1861 Beechworth
Annie J Butler b1863 Beechworth
By the birth of their sixth child in 1866 they were back in Liverpool.
I believe that father Richard Harding Butler was a greengrocer at some point in his life. I have no idea why they went to Australia, except perhaps to find a better life, or when or why they returned to England ???
Also, can anyone tell me where Beechworth is ???
Can anyone help me please?
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Beechworth appears to be in Victoria as the 1871 census has Victoria as the birthplace for the children
They were at 23 Park Rd Toxteth Park Liverpool and Richard is shown as a grocer and provisions dealer
No daughter Annie in 1871 but 2 children b Liverpool Ada C aged 5 and Minnie E aged 3 RG10 Piece 3796 Folio 113 Page 26
A Jean Rolfe has notified a transcription error in November 2009 - is she known to you?
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Hi CaroleW
Thanks for that.
Yes, that is the Richard and those are the remaining two children, both born in Liverpool. Annie was born in Beechworth, but maybe she died as an infant ???
This is my husband's side of the family. He says the surname Rolfe, rings a vague bell, but that's all.
Joan
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If you are a member of Ancestry - you can send her an email in case she may have more info for you
Let me know as I can do it for you if you don't have a subscription
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Hi SamnJoan,
You asked in your first post where Beechworth was.......well, it is in Victoria and was a Goldfields destination.....here is a website that might give you some information
http://www.beechworth.com/history_preserved/the_goldfields.html
Lots of families from all over the world travelled to the Australian goldfields in the hope of making their fortune (two of mine certainly did....although the fortune eluded them ;D)....maybe your husband's family was one of them.
Have you checked the Victorian Births deaths and marriages for Annie's death?
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria
Cheers
Siouxsie
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Another child for Richard Harding BUTLER and Harriet (nee PENDER)
Birth Charles Moss BUTLER, father Richard Hardin, mother Harriet PENDER, birth place CHIL (possibly Chiltern, near Beechworth) in 1864
Australia -(Victorian Births,Deaths,Marriages - Reg no. 9046)
Added this although you already have her birth, it shows her second 'Christian' name and being born at Chiltern, same as Charles
Birth Annie Jane BUTLER, father Richard Hardin, mother Harriet PENDER, birth place CHIL (Chiltern) 1862 Victorian BDM reg no. 15024.
Logan
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Deaths
Charles Moss Butler aged 4 March qtr 1868 West Derby 8b 285
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Births in Victoria
BUTLER Richard Pender
]Father Richard Mother Harriett PENDER
At Woolshed 1856 Reg# 2982
BUTLER Harriet Harding
Father Richard Harding Mother Harriet PENDER
At Beechworth 1857 Reg#7888
BUTLER John James
Father Richardd Mother Harriett PENDER
At Woolshed 1859 Reg#4862
BUTLER Peter Duncan
Father Richard Mother Harriet PENDER
At Indi 1860 Reg#10834
BUTLER Annie Jane
Father Richard Hardin Mother Harriet PENDER
At Chiltern 1862 Reg#15204
BUTLER Charles Moss
Father Richard Hardin Mother Harriet PENDER
At Chiltern 1864 Reg#9046
Search here to see the places in relation to Beechworth.
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
If Richard had been mining gold in the area, he may have decided to return to England as the gold boom finished.
Any of the above birth certificates will detail Richard's occupation. You can purchase online an image of certs and immediately download for AUD $17.50.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Cando
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Outward passengers from Victoria on the TRUE BRITON May 1864 to London
BUTLER Infant
BUTLER Mrs 34 years
BUTLER Annie 4 years
BUTLER Harriett 7years
BUTLER John J 5 years
BUTLER Peter 2 years
BUTLER RD 8 years
BUTLER Mr RD 35 years
You can check for Annie's death in England between 3/4 in 1864 and 1/4 1871 unless of course she died at sea.
Cando
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Hi CaroleW, Siouxsie, Logan and Cando
Thanks for all that fantastic information :)
Siouxsie, I hadn't realised that this was Gold Rush time. That explains a lot. It must have been very hard for the wives and children, as well as the men. The climate doesn't sound too friendly either.
Logan, I didn't know that Annie had a second name, or anything about the birth of Charles Moss so thanks for that.
Cando, great to have all the births and actual places of birth. Some of the dates I had were a year out. I had them from the 1871/1881 censuses and those are always a bit hit and miss. Thanks also for the listing of their return from Victoria. I can't imagine how awful that journey must have been with six small children, one of whom was newly born. Any idea how long it would have taken? Is there any sign of the outward journey with just Richard and Harriet ??? I imagine it would have been from Liverpool, as that is where they were married.
CaroleW, I don't have a subscription to Ancestry so would much appreciate you emailing Jean Rolfe for me, if it's not too much trouble. Thanks for the death of Charles Moss. Poor little lad. I don't suppose the long journey did him any good.
You have all been a great help, thankyou :) :) :) :)
Joan
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I don't have a subscription to Ancestry so would much appreciate you emailing Jean Rolfe for me
I have just sent her a message via Ancestry with the link to this post
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Hi CaroleW
That's great. Thanks a lot :)
Joan
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Siouxsie[/b], I hadn't realised that this was Gold Rush time. That explains a lot. It must have been very hard for the wives and children, as well as the men. The climate doesn't sound too friendly either.
.....and they often lived in tents or lean-to shacks.........in the middle of winter it would have been dire.........and summer would have been stifflingly hot! There are lots of great articles online that could give you a more complete picture of the living conditions of the time.
Cheers
Siouxsie
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Hi Joan
I have just had a reply from Jean Rolfe. She has no connection to your Butlers but had noticed the error in the birthplace so reported it
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Hi Siouxsie and CaroleW
Sorry not to have replied to your answers before :-[
Siouxsie Thanks for that. You really have to admire the families trying to survive under those horrendous conditions, but I suppose the lure of gold explains it. I shall read more.
CaroleW Thankyou for all your trouble. Pity about Jean Rolfe, but she was worth a try.
Thanks again to you both,
Joan
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Looks like the Butlers chased the gold .. here's some info on the obscure birthplaces..
Gold was discovered in 1854 at Woolshed [Valley].
Charles Cropper when droving his sheep from Manaroo to Laceby on the King River in 1838, camped by a stream, (Reedy Creek), and as his sheep were in very poor condition, he was compelled to rest up and to shear them. Cropper erected a temporary wooden structure, a woolshed. Later on the Reid Brothers used it. The whole valley was referred to as the Woolshed, and the name stayed to this day.
http://www.albury.net.au/~tim/eldhist.htm
There's no town of Indi I can find, so possibly the birth place refers to Indigo Valley or the simply electorate of Indi that covered Wodonga, Wangaratta, Glenrowan, Benalla, Euroa, Nagambie, Mansfield, Bright, Myrtleford and the Victorian snowfields. There is a Parish of Indi but its' many many miles away, no mining in the era and no direct route from Beechworth region.
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Hi mrwilson
I have just picked up your message, somewhat belatedly, so sorry for the delay in replying :-[
Thanks for your information. I dare say a lot of places were named as people travelled around, after people or activities.
The website is fascinating. Thankyou for all your trouble.
Joan
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I have a Richard Harding Butler, b1829 in Dublin, Ireland, and wife Harriet nee Pender b1830 in Falmouth, Cornwall. They emigrated to Australia somewhere between their marriage in Liverpool in 1852 and the birth of their first child in 1856.
They had five children born in Australia:
Richard Pender Butler b1856 Victoria
Harriet Harding Butler b1858 Beechworth
John James Butler b1859 Beechworth
Peter Duncan Butler b1861 Beechworth
Annie J Butler b1863 Beechworth
By the birth of their sixth child in 1866 they were back in Liverpool.
I believe that father Richard Harding Butler was a greengrocer at some point in his life. I have no idea why they went to Australia, except perhaps to find a better life, or when or why they returned to England ???
Also, can anyone tell me where Beechworth is ???
Can anyone help me please?
Hello SamnJoan. Richard Harding Butler was my husband's great, great, grandfather. My father and mother-in-law did some research on him. When they came back to Liverpool they bought 3 ships apparently to import fruit and veg. The name Pender has been handed down as a middle name to my husband's siblings.
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Some snippets from TROVE newspapers.
Birth of daughter at El Dorado, April 1857
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/113014985
(Presumably this is Harriett, whose birth (according to the index) was registered 1858 at Beechworth. El Dorado is about 25k from the town of Beechworth itself. One always needs to be careful of birthplaces as the place of registration is not necessarily the place of birth.)
As these use only his Christaian name and surname they may or may not be your Richard BUTLER, November 1857.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/113235335
There are a number of other placements of the same advertisement at around the same time.
Lost horse, June 1857
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/113015578
A refreshment llicence granted to Richard BUTLER of Lower Woolshed, November 1857
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/113017635
If this is him then he seems to have done as some others - found that money was to be made by providing services rather than mining.
Judith