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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: superbr on Wednesday 12 May 10 12:54 BST (UK)
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IT APPEARS THERE ARE NO RECORDS OF WHERE PEOPLE ARE BURIED IN THE GRAVEYARD - NO MAP OR HOW MANY IS IN EACH GRAVE. UNLESS YOU FIND THE DETAILS ON A STANDING GRAVE THERE ARE NO RECORDS TO SAY WHO IS DOWN THERE - SO SAY WYAS. DOES ANYBODY KNOW ANY DIFFERENT PLEASE. I AM LOOKING FOR A SPINK FAMILY GRAVE WITH THE LAST TWO ENTRIES BEING ELIZABETH SPINK AND JOHN SPINK BOTH DIED IN 1870. ITS IN THERE BUT WHERE?
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Not knowing Holy Trinity, Rothwell, this might not be sensible advice, but I've always found the best place to start is with the Vicar of the church. He/she will know whether any records exist and if they do, who is holding them.
Lizzie
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Hi Lizzie - I have tried all the normal routes - the vicar told me all the parish records for Rothwell are with WYAS nothing is kept on site anymore. I believe the original records are lost and the only ones to survive are the ones that WYAS received and recorded which are the births /marriages/burials which is adequate for most enquiries. My problem is there surely was a graveyard map and the amount of people in the graves were logged but that appears to no longer exist. Somebody out there might know different.
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Not sure who WYAS are, presumably West Yorkshire Archive Society. I would assume there would be a graveyard map. I guess the problem arises because Yorkshire has been split into unitary authorities now, so there is no overall body for Yorkshire and somebody somewhere decided the records you want (and probably hundreds of others) weren't important enough to keep.
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May I suggest that you take a look and maybe post a message on the web site www.yorkshireindexers.co.uk
The web site contains an online burial data base for some areas of Leeds for which a small annual subscription is required.
The web site also contains message boards and I feel sure that if you posted a message, someone with knowledge of the Rothwell area may be able to advise you.
Good luck with your search.
Best Wishes
CJL
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Thanks cjl - I shall try that.
Lizzie - somebody probably has the Rothwell Holy Trinity graveyard map up on their wall as a poster. :) The more I delve into this churches past the more funny goings on I uncover. Local heresay has it that early photographs of the church show lots of box type tombs at the front of the church - these all vanished and the front landscaped with all the stones and occupants carted off to landfill - so much for consecration! If you cant see it - it aint ever been there! and they were burying here from the 1500s to the end of the 1900s.
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superbr - You could be right.
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Rothwell parish church has it's own website, found easily enough by Googling or there is a link on the Genuki website. It mentions that work on a map of gravestones is ongoing but a job for the winter months, whatever that means.
I visited the church about four years ago and the churchwarden mentioned then that they were working on a graveyard map, so it's obviously a long-term project.
Genuki also has a link to Rothwell's Local History Society who may have more information, chances are they're the ones who are organising the project.
Best wishes
Liz
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I'll have a look for you next time I am in the church yard. It's very over grown at the moment, many gravestones knocked over, if I get lucky I'll let you know. Of course they may be buried there but were they rich enough to afford a gravestone, and without a map someone has really to be smiling at me!
Tom
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Hi
You are talking about 3 different issues here!
1) The original church grave location map and records
2) Later 19/ 20/21 century Maps by Groups who make a map for Graves head and flatstone & Tombs of Memorial Inscriptions(MI's)etc and map locations of these epitaphs Stones located either to the the original markers or some new map reference point.
3) Cemetery Records that give a lot more information of who are buried in the graves with or without a marker or headstones and even recorded who was in pauper graves.
Very few original older ( 1550ish onwards as start of most PR's but the Church's go back futher) church records of Graves and maps survived but there are one or two but were mostly later built Church's in the 19th century onwards
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DOBFARM - Your response is the practical route - I`ve tried them and zilch. Have you any more useful advice to move me forward bar digging em all up and asking each yorik. ::)
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Superbr
It will be a job for the winter months, because that is when the vegetation is at its lowest, just right now in June/July it is at its highest, just look at your own gardens. This is a church graveyard that was closed for burials in 1920; it is not a municipal cemetery, where records of whom was buried in a grave was kept meticulously in a large book. I understand there are some grave digger records, but they only start around 1898, and they are by no means complete or very detailed-it may say "child aged 6, and cost of burial", which is hardly much use for family history purposes. You are right, those records at the Archives or in Leeds Central Library, local studies section, on fiche, will tell you that your relative was buried in Rothwell church yard and when, and by whom the service was taken. That may be another clue, the vicar, because depending on whom the vicar was will determine where the burial is in the churchyard. The other thing to bear in mind is which of your relatives buried in the grave was buried first. If your, John Spink was buried in September qtr of 1870, was he the first of the family to be buried there. If the first one in the grave, bearing in mind that most of the graves are 8 feet deep, was say in 1850, then that also determine where the grave is-it wont be with the ones buried in 1870. There also various sections in the graveyard given over to people from the areas round about-just because the church is Holy Trinity Rothwell, the persons buried there came from Hunslet, Middleton, Woodlesford, Rothwell Haigh, not just from Rothwell. It would depend when a church was built in the area with a graveyard.
I enclose a photo of the graveyard to show you height of the vegetation and the problem facing anyone looking for a grave without a map or plan. You can see that some of the graves have sunk as the ground has shifted underneath. I understand that Leeds Council now are responsible for the graveyard, but would think that it would come at the end of a long list. They have just sprayed it with weed killer-lets hope that in 14 days the undergrowth will be thinner.
I will continue to look for John Spink, but a few more clues would be helpful. Many of the graves are unmarked, or the stone hidden under the ground etc.
Tom
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Thank you for the reply Tom. Most of my Spink family were from Middleton/Hunslet area OF Leeds. We have a few family graves in the Woodhouse Hill cemetery of which I have found them all. In Holy Trinity lie the earlier Spink members of which is John Spink b 1796 d 1870 - his first wife Hannah Spink (nee Holmes) and his second wife Elizabeth Spink d 1870. Woodhouse Hill cemetery was opened in the 1840s and thats where I hoped they would be dying in 1870 which told me there was probably a family grave in Holy Trinity. The first place I started to look at Holy Trinity was by the vault of John Blenkinsop near to the church entrance and I stood on a piece of broken gravestone for George and Elizabeth Spink but I couldnt find the rest of the gravestone - it was probably dragged there from another part of the graveyard. Thats the nearest I have come to finding any Spink names in there and by the microfiche records there is quite a lot. I`ve been told quite a few people had started doing recordings of graves here in the past and hoped that just one might appear on a site like this. Fingers are always crossed. Brian.
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I think people have been put off by the enormity of the task. It takes a lot of committment. Having seen what they have done to the front of the church, they be tempted to do it at the back as well, but if they do I hope someone thinks of recording the MI's first.
Tom
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There are no records for Rothwell church graveyard which is very annoying. A lot of the stones have been removed as the ground caused them to fall over. I have a few generations buried there. I know roughly where they are but there is no markings.
A lot of the early graves were removed to build a church hall. From what I'm told, an advert was placed in the local newspaper to find living reletives. No-one came forward and so the residents were removed. Sad story really. On a sadder note, My dad recalls human skulls and other bones left on the road side during the church hall building work.
About 7-8 years ago the graveyard was badly overgrown. It was slowly cleared due to wildlife and is now clear. I do hope a graveyard plan is being made up. I would be willing to help out if anyone knows anything.
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Regarding the Rothwell Registers?
Found online Baptisms and Burials 1690 - 1763, and Marriages 1690 - 1812.
(Spink family name found).
http://www.archive.org/details/publications01yorkuoft
Enter 'Rothwell' into search box.
Brian
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Actually for an old burial ground Rothwell compared to the very old church yards Birstall and Hearthead and many more old church's! as most of the early/mid and later stones removed or grassed over.
Very few old churchs have grave plans and those that do are most likely that they were built in the mid 19century.
Dave
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FAO Calverley Lad.
This online book is fantastic!! Nice work! :D
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Just to let you know I have commenced surveying and recording the inscriptions on the gravestones in Rothwell Holy Trinity graveyard. Photographs of the stones and transcriptions of the inscriptions are on Yorkshire Indexers.
I am making my own map, and there is no current map at all. I have started in an area of the churchyard which I call the north west section. I would expect that this project will take almost two years as the graveyard is in a poor state, many of the stones difficult read, many upside down.
Eventually I will have a database of many names which I will make available to the church secretary-hopefully the administrator of the church's website will have worked out how we can put the information on the net. Please don't bombard me with look ups, but I have already been able to assist suprbr find the lost remains of his Spink relatives grave-the photograph is on Yorkshire Indexers.
http://www.yorkshireindexers.co.uk/forum/index.php
Tom
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Superbr
Colin Hinson who hosts Genuki, Rothwell, has kindly agreed to allow me to place inscriptions on the gravestones on his website. If you follow the link, you will see two parts of the graveyard carried out, much more to do, and a map as well in the future.
Here's the link.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Rothwell/index.html
Tom
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Could anyone help me locate a headstone in Rothwell Holy Trinity? I have a picture of it (that I can't manage to post here...) and would like to visit it someday - I live in Vancouver BC and, of course, travel isn't feasible now. . It is a large headstone, comes to an oval at top memorializing these people. I would guess it would be 36" high if standing -
THOMAS ELLIS of Carlton who died Aug 29 1881 aged 64 years "His End was Peace" Also JANE, wife of the above, who died May 15, 1892, aged 71 years (long quote follows) Also JANE SWIFT, daughter of the above, who died Feb 16, 1938 aged 80 years Then chiseled in much late in lighter mark - Also WALTER SWIFT a very dear husband, dad & granddad died Nov. 28, 1975
I'm hoping that this wasn't a headstone repurposed when the church was rebuilt. From the picture, it looks to me as though the headstone has fallen facing Wood Lane and is in the last row. I don't see a wall - the headstone faces a road but seems to be on an elevated area above it. I've visited Rothwell a few times and I'm guessing wildly as to where it can be found :-) Many thanks to anyone who can help with this!
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Erin: This the memorial detail for Thomas?
Area
Leeds & District
Cemetery
Rothwell (Holy Trinity)
Record
Entry
1474
Event Type
Burial
Given Name
Thomas
Surname
ELLIS
Gender
Male
Abode Place
Carlton
Event Day
31
Event Month
8
Event Year
1881
Age Years
64
Age Months
0
Birth Year
1817 *
Birth Year Calculated
1
Register
4
Page
185
Page Row
2
Brian
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The site identified as yorkshireindexers.co.uk no longer exists!
A new site with the following address replaces it: https://yorkshireburials.uk/
Brian
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Hi Calverley Lad. Yes, that it the information for my Thomas Ellis. Again, I'm sure it's Woods Lane side, closest to edge of cemetery. I'm hoping I've correctly attached the image of the headstone here... Best, Erin
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Yes the photo does clearly confirm the information posted earlier.
Looking at an image of Holy Trinity church viewed September 2020 there doesn't appeaar to be a grave shown visible on Woods Lane.
Brian
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Hi Tom Piper
My 2x Great-Grandfather Joseph Arundale 1824-1890 and 7 members of his family where buried in the graveyard of Holy Trinity Church Rothwell. Joseph own property, so I assume there was a headstone on the grave. From reading these postings, I now realise if the grave was originally in the grassed landscaped south section of the church, the headstone & grave no longer exists.
I have also checked the 3 North & North West sections which have been recorded (by you) and maintained online by John Redman, and found there was no Arundale grave in these lists.
Therefore has the mapping and recording in the overgrown North & North West section now finished or are there still headstones to be recorded? Best Regards Wave Watcher
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Viewing this again after 18month gap just to say that some of the grave incumbents have been transcribed by the members of yorkshireburials.
https://search.yorkshireburials.uk
Brian
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Brian
In searching for an Arundale grave at the Holy Trinity Church Rothwell, I have summarised the actions which I understand to have taken place.
And with currently no Arundale grave recorded there.
I have asked the simple question has the recording of graves at Rothwell finished or is it still on going.
Best Regards Wave Watcher
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I found this link - it may partly help future researchers
Borthwick archive at York University Library may have Rothwell Holy Trinity graveyard info as they hold a lot of church graveyards & grave registers in their archives independent of WYAS
https://billiongraves.com/cemetery/Rothwell-Holy-Trinity-Parish-Churchyard/177702