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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: smeatons on Sunday 23 May 10 15:22 BST (UK)
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I've been trying to work out how to get information on William Evans, Elizabeth Davies and their parents.
I'm a bit stuck and thought I'd ask the collective knowledge of the forum for some help.
Here's what I know so far...
Thomas Evans ========= Mary Thomas Daniel Davies ===== Mary ?
? - ? | ? - c1862 |
| |
/-------+-------\
Son William Evans =========== Elizabeth Davies
10.08.1851 - 18.06.1931 | 27.09.1854 - 11.06.1941
m.1874 |
|-----------------------
| |
John Camwy Evans 10 Others
10.02.1885 - 1963
Thomas Evans and Mary Thomas are from Betws a'r Trelech, Carmarthen
Daniel and Mary Davies are from Felin Newydd, Cynwyl Gaeo, South Wales
William Evans was born in Crug-y-bar, Carmarthenshire
William moved to Pentre, after his mother died, with his brother worked in the mines and attended Shiloh Chapel.
He emigated to Patagonia in 1875 after marrying Elizabeth in 1874.
So both William and Elizabeth should be on the 1861 with their parents and on the 1871 census too but with such common names I'm having difficulty identifying the correct records.
Having looked for the marriage certificate of William and Elizabeth I ordered Q3 1874 Llandilofawr 11a 1089, only to realise this was incorrect. That left Q4 1874 Pontypridd 11a 617 and Q1 1875 Carmarthen 11a 885... I suspect it is the later.
So, some of the questions I have are:
1. How do I go about getting birth, marriage and death dates for both William and Elizabeths parents?
2. How do I find out the name of Williams brother?
3. Do work records exist for the mine in Pentre?
I think I have William and Elizabeths family covered from when they arrived in Patagonia, it's the Welsh history I'm having problems with.
Appreciate any help you can give me.
regards,
David
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Hello David,
In 1881 I have found the Davies family at New Mill, Conwill Cayo, Carmarthen
Daniel Davies Head age 63 born Llansawel around 1818 Miller and Farmer (Corn)
Mary Davies Wife age 64 born Cayo around 1817 Miller's Wife
Sarah Davies Daughter age 24 born Llansawel around 1857 Miller's daughter
John Davies Grandson age 7 born Llansawl around 1874 Scholar
RG11 5386/22 Page 15
*Felin Newydd = New Mill
Best Wishes
Morgan
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Morgan,
Many thanks for spotting this it has allowed me find several other references to them already (1891 and 1901 census).
I guess what I can learn from this is that I should search on the English transaction when dealing with the Welsh census!
Thanks again, I really do appreciate you taking the time to look at this.
regards,
David
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David,
you're very welcome! The names are so common that you need to track them in Census records to help narrow the date range to search for death records. I'll have a look for the Evans family to see if I can spot them. Do you think they came from Tre-lech a'r Betws or Cynwil Caio?
Morgan
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Morgan,
I've managed to find the Davies family on all the census returns from 1851 to 1901 now, collecting a number of new people along the way... plenty for me to work through there. Daniel dies somewhere between 1891 and 1901, Mary some time after the 1901 census. The family lived in Llansawell between 1851 and 1871. First child found so far was in 1842, so I should be able to start working out the marriage date soon. If I get to work out one of the birth dates of their children I should get details on their parents and most importantly Marys maiden name.
Thomas and Mary Evans are apparently from Betws a'r Trelech (taken from a book published in Patagonia about the settlers), but their son was born in Crug-y-bar (according to the book by Huw Edwards the newsreader) which is just down the road from Elizabeth and New Mill - which would make sense.
regards,
David
ps. thanks for the PM
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David,
That's great. Did Daniel have 3 servants in 1861? Elizabeth's mother Mary was born in Cilycwm?
Check out Thomas Evans in Conwil Cayo in 1861 with Mary and sons David and William.
Thomas b 1829 Cayo age 32
Mary b1830 Calley (actually Talley) age 31
David b1852 Cayo age 9
William b1856 Cayo age 5
I know the dates are not an exact fit and it's Cayo rather than Trelech a'r Betws but worth a look....
Once we get census right, we can try for PR search!
Best Wishes
Morgan
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Morgan,
It's getting late so I'll check out the Evans one later today :)
These are the census records for Davies
1861 1871 1881 1891 1901
RG9 4127/6 Pg 5 RG10 5482/4 Pg 2 RG11 5386/22 Pg 15 RG12 4507/14 Pg 4 RG13 5101/13 Pg 1
Parkwillim Park Willim Newmill Newmill Newmill
Daniel Davies age 47 age 54 age 63 age 73 dead
Mary Davies age 48 age 56 age 64 age 75 age 86
Daniel Davies - age 23 - - age 52
Mary Davies age 9 - - - -
Elizabeth Davies age 7 age 17 - - -
Sarah Davies age 4 - age 24 - -
David Davies age 3 age 12 - - -
John Davies - - age 7 age 18 -
1851
HO107 2471/7 Pg 7
Tyr Gwilim
Daniel Davies 34
Mary Davies 35
James Davies 9
John Davies 7
William Davies 5
Daniel Davies 3
Thomas Davies 1
regards and thanks,
David
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think this could be them in 1841, next to David & Lettice Williams as in 1851.
Weyon, Llansawel HO107/1381/15 folio 6 pg 7
Daniel Davies 20 ag lab
Mary 20
David 2
all born in county
possible marriage
Daniel Davies june qtr 1839 Llandilofawr vol 26 pg 529 with Mary Roderick on the same page
possible baptism from extracted IGI batch C082651 for Cynwyl Gaeo
Mary bp 2/7/1815 dau of David & Mary Roderick
:-\
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David
When I read your request, something clicked but I couldn't remember what! now I remember reading this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mystory/stories/discovery/173471/
Best Wishes
Morgan
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David
Found this on Gathering the Jewels site - picture of William Evans house, Maes yr Haf, Bryngwyn, Patagonia around 1880
http://www.gtj.org.uk/en/large/item/44165/
Is this your William Evans? ;D
Nice picture whether it is or not!
Best Wishes
Morgan
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Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been travelling (still am) and so it's more difficult to get onto the internet.
Osprey - many thanks for the possibles you have flagged up. I'll certainly progress those as they look very promising.
Morgan - re the photo of William Evans - Yes, that's my man. The National Library of Wales has a number of letters from him too. I've actually got a more detailed scan of that photo sent to me by the library.
Thanks for the BBC link tooo... I've done a bit more research on this and alas the mill has been closed to the public for about 5 years or so now, but I've sent an email to the Welsh Mills Society who recently visited the mill and hopefully they will be able to put me in touch with the current owners.
I have also received some very good news from Patagonia. I'm visiting there later in the year and so got in contact with the museum in Gaiman. Turns out that they have a number of photographs of my ancestors at the museum and also know a number of living descendants of William Evans - it's going to be an interesting visit!
Thanks again to everyone for their help and interest.
regards,
David
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Hello David
Just found this pics of the Mill leat and waterwheel at Felin Newydd :)
:)
http://www.westwales.co.uk/graphics/felin_leat.jpg
http://www.westwales.co.uk/graphics/felin_wheel.jpg
Please let me know how you get on with your search
Best Wishes
Morgan
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Well, I think I'm making some good progress with all this!
The Welsh Mill Society has passed my email on to the current owners of the mill, so hopefully that will bring some good news in the coming weeks.
And although the mill is now closed to the public, I did find the original website about the mill here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20031008084645/www.themill.biz/wm-history.htm
which gives some details of interest.
My conversations with the museum in Patagonia are going well too... seems like they would like to interview me on the radio when I go, which should be interesting! Thankfully they plan to ask me questions in English and will then translate my answers for the audience.
Many thanks for the photo links, I looked at Geograph for photos and found this:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/388953
I use this site and Google StreetView quite a lot to see what places look like.
In my nosiness I also spotted that the mill sold for £445,000 in 2004 :-)
http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=Llanwrda%2C+Carmarthenshire%2C++SA19&n=10&f=pd
Doesn't help with the family history, but it's interesting to know never-the-less.
regards,
David
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That's great David
Perhaps you should do a crash course in Welsh before you go ;D
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lol
I think I have a better chance with Spanish!
regards,
David
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post removed
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Hello Smeatons, I have a John and Mary Davies in my tree, who were my ggg grandparents.
They lived in and milled at Felin Newydd in 1861, but I don't know if they are related in any way to your Davies, so many of them around, such common names... Both were born in the area, Mary's maiden name was Isaac.
My parents have visited the mill and met the owners at the time - I have some photos that may be the same as the ones on the website link, but I can't seem to open them on the link to compare. I'm attaching one of the main building, I also have an interior photo if you haven't seen it.
My John moved around a lot and milled at least four different mills in the area - I have never been able to identify his parents for the usual reason - every second man was named John Davies!
Caroline.
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And here's an extract about the mill from another source
WATERMlLLS OF SOUTH WALES
Interim Results from a Partly-completed Survey
David H. Jones
GB-22/104; Felin Newydd, Crug-y-Bar National Grid: SN663385 Now working (1983)
This is typical of a very numerous class of mill in this region. It forms the end of a range of buildings which originally consisted of the kiln and the house. It is driven by an external overshot wheel fed by a leat from the Afon Annell.
Two pairs of stones are driven by spurwheel gear, but the upright shaft ends below the first floor. An oatmeal machine stands against one wall, driven by a belt from one stone spindle. A bevel pinion engaging the side of the pitwheel drives a pulley on a layshaft, with a belt to a countershaft set low on the first floor. Belts from this drive two wire machines through angle gears; one ordinary machine clothed as a flour dresser, and the other built as a grain cleaner, with a fan in its base.
An attic floor has been inserted into part of the roof, but it has very little area or headroom. Its only uses could have been storage of a few sacks, and providing easier access to the wire machine hoppers. The sack hoist is in the roof ridge; it is driven by a slack chain from the waterwheel shaft, tightened by lifting the bearing in a wooden slide. A second manual hoist is fitted in the opposite end of the attic, with its chain running over an external pulley above the doorway.
Except for the manual hoist, the incomplete mill at Felin Gwm Isaf (22/109) appears to be identical. Many other mills are broadly similar, although this type of grain cleaner has not been found elsewhere.
Mill ID Number 6355
Mill Name : Felin Newydd
Type :
Status :
Dates :
New Address : Crug-y-bar
Original Address :
County : CARMARTHENSHIRE
Country : uk
Post Code :
Grid Ref : SN 663 385. OS Sheet 146
Description : About 6½ miles N of Llanwrda on A482 Llanwrda to Lampeter road.
A grade II listed late 18th century working corn mill with a wood and iron overshot wheel and two pairs of millstones.
Should be fully operational shortly.
Tearooms, craft shop, formal gardens & pond.
Gold mines 1½ miles. Good local pub 200 yds.
Opening times : April to October, daily except Mondays, 10.00 17.30. Parties at other times by arrangement from 2001.
Web Site :
Contact Name : *
Contact Email :
Contact Tel : *
Last modified : By Jim Woodward-Nutt - 24/04/2001 12:12:00
Moderator Comment: I believe that the Mill is no longer open to the public
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This may not be of any particular interest to David but Daniel and Mary Davies's son David ("Reverend David R. Davies") emigrated to USA in 1885 and was ordained as a Congregational Minister. He and his wife settled in Clay County, Iowa, where there were many Welsh families, and they had two daughters. He died there in 1893. His wife Ellen Roberts died in 1939.
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Hello Smeatons, I have a John and Mary Davies in my tree, who were my ggg grandparents.
They lived in and milled at Felin Newydd in 1861, but I don't know if they are related in any way to your Davies, so many of them around, such common names... Both were born in the area, Mary's maiden name was Isaac.
My parents have visited the mill and met the owners at the time - I have some photos that may be the same as the ones on the website link, but I can't seem to open them on the link to compare. I'm attaching one of the main building, I also have an interior photo if you haven't seen it.
My John moved around a lot and milled at least four different mills in the area - I have never been able to identify his parents for the usual reason - every second man was named John Davies!
Caroline.
Caroline,
Sorry for not replying sooner... for some reason I didn't get notified about your posts. :-(
I don't believe our Davies are related, my understanding of the history of the millers is as follows:
1836 John Davies was recorded Miller.
1836 He was replaced in the same year by James James. His tenancy was brief as he died the following year. The title was passed to his wife who was still milling in 1841.
1851 Edward Edwards
1861 John Davies in 1861
1871 John Williams
1874 Daniel Davies who remained milling until 1903 at the age of 85.
In 1905, Anthony Williams became tenant. He purchased the Mill in 1918 from the Edwinsford estate for the sum of £725
I would very much like to see a photo of the interior if possible as the mill is now closed to the public, so I'll never get to see all the fascinating things I know are in the mill relating to my family :-(
best wishes,
David
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This may not be of any particular interest to David but Daniel and Mary Davies's son David ("Reverend David R. Davies") emigrated to USA in 1885 and was ordained as a Congregational Minister. He and his wife settled in Clay County, Iowa, where there were many Welsh families, and they had two daughters. He died there in 1893. His wife Ellen Roberts died in 1939.
Hi Lloyd,
Again, sorry for not responding sooner... for some reason I hadn't realised additional posts had been made to this thread!
Could you just confirm that this is the David Davies that was born in 1858?
thanks,
David
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Hello Smeatons,
So strange, I didn't know you had posted again on this thread.
Here's a photo of the mill interior, It is taken from a postcard, so not exceptional, but a nice thing to have.
Caroline.
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This may not be of any particular interest to David but Daniel and Mary Davies's son David ("Reverend David R. Davies") emigrated to USA in 1885 and was ordained as a Congregational Minister. He and his wife settled in Clay County, Iowa, where there were many Welsh families, and they had two daughters. He died there in 1893. His wife Ellen Roberts died in 1939.
Hi Lloyd,
Again, sorry for not responding sooner... for some reason I hadn't realised additional posts had been made to this thread!
Could you just confirm that this is the David Davies that was born in 1858?
thanks,
David
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To add to the above post, Mirta is attempting to contact Smeatons, I believe with regards to this family, however is unfortunately fluent only in Spanish and only speaks a small amount of English.
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Hola Mirta :)
Bienvendo a Rootschat!
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David I would like to find out how far you have got in your search for Thomas and Mary. My father is a grandson of John Camwy Evans and I would like to do the tree further back.
thanks
kaye
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David I would like to find out how far you have got in your search for Thomas and Mary. My father is a grandson of John Camwy Evans and I would like to do the tree further back.
thanks
kaye
Hi Kaye,
My mother is also a granddaughter of John. I am really interested in our family history too, so could you keep me updated if you find anything else out! It seems our ancestors were pioneers in Patagonia which I am very proud of.
Thanks,
Kate
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Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been travelling (still am) and so it's more difficult to get onto the internet.
Osprey - many thanks for the possibles you have flagged up. I'll certainly progress those as they look very promising.
Morgan - re the photo of William Evans - Yes, that's my man. The National Library of Wales has a number of letters from him too. I've actually got a more detailed scan of that photo sent to me by the library.
Thanks for the BBC link tooo... I've done a bit more research on this and alas the mill has been closed to the public for about 5 years or so now, but I've sent an email to the Welsh Mills Society who recently visited the mill and hopefully they will be able to put me in touch with the current owners.
I have also received some very good news from Patagonia. I'm visiting there later in the year and so got in contact with the museum in Gaiman. Turns out that they have a number of photographs of my ancestors at the museum and also know a number of living descendants of William Evans - it's going to be an interesting visit!
Thanks again to everyone for their help and interest.
regards,
David
Hello David!
I am a living descendant of William through John Camwy, living in the UK. I would be fascinated to share any info you have found about my family.
Thanks,
Kate