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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Leitrim => Topic started by: hamiltonhunt on Wednesday 26 May 10 23:07 BST (UK)
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Looking for information about Arabella COX and husband Simon Le BAGGE-BAGGE, aka Le BAGGE, BAGGE.
Arabella, born c1825 in Carrick-on-Shannon, Kiltoghert, married Simon Le BAGGE 2 June 1846 in Carrick-on-Shannon, they lived in Ardmore (House), Waterford, then Dublin, possibly Crosswater Park. I believe Simon died before 1891.
Have no definite information re Simon, other than Griffiths Valuation. The Le Bagges were prominent landowners in Ardmore. I've seen material on the family but not sure where Simon falls in. His parents may be John BAGGE and Elizabeth RUTLEDGE.
They had at least six children, Elizabeth Ann, Amelia (TBC), Helen Ida, Alice Maude Mary, Leonora Edith and Kathleen Isabel. Some of her children immigrated to Alberta, Canada.
Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
J
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Kathleen Isabel Bagge born 8 Jan.1866 Dublin and Leonora Edith born 7 Aug.1864 (bith listed in I.G.I.- www.familysearch.org). Since the parents were married in 1846 I suspect there could have been quite a few children born 1846-1864.
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Thank you Aghadowey
I have the birthdates for Kathleen and Leonora.
I also have dates for two of the sisters but no records to support them, Elizabeth Ann b 4 Aug 1847, Ardmore, Waterford and Helen Ida b 19 Apr 1850, Ardmore, Waterford.
I'm not sure that Alice Maude Mary is a sibling, b c1859, Ardmore, Waterford, I don't have enough info about her.
I've found quite a bit of information regarding these girls and their descendents but am struggling filling in any others and going back in both families.
Thanks,
J
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Searching civil index for 'Bagge' 'Co.Dublin' 'marriages' brings up some possibilities (although site isn't working correctly at the moment)-
Helen Ida Bagge married 1885
Kathleen Isabel Le Bagge Bagge married 1886
Leonora Edith Bagge married 1889
Arabella Henrietta Bagge married 1885 (this one also in Rathdown registration district- as are Kathleen and Leonora's marriages) and I've included it because of mother's name)
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Leonora Edith Bagge, daughter of late Simon Bagge married George King Payne 15 Aug.1889 at Christ Church, Kingstown.
This narrows down date of Simon's death a bit more for you. Sorry not to post full details but am on my way out- let me know if you want whole write-up and I'll post it later.
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Some details from Slater's directory of 1846 that might be connected :
Carrick on Shannon, Co. Leitrim :
Capt. Charles Cox, J.P. Main St - Land Agent
Robert Henry Cox Esq. - Attorney
New Court and 38 Stephens Green Dublin
see page 11 (http://www.failteromhat.com/slater/0011.pdf) page 12 (http://www.failteromhat.com/slater/0012.pdf)
Dungarvan, Co. Waterford :
Henry Bagge, Bridge St - Attorney
Ardmore is about 20km from Dungarvan town.
see: page 71 (http://www.failteromhat.com/slater/0071.pdf) page 72 (http://www.failteromhat.com/slater/0072.pdf)
Shane
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Thanks aghadowey and shanew147
I found the groom for Arabella Henrietta Bagge, Walter Croker Poole so will follow that up. And will follow up those names for possible fathers. I ran across mention of a book "Exploring Family Origins and Old Carrick-on-Shannon". Are you familiar with it, I wonder if I shouldtry to get it on inter-library loan to Canada??
I have the info on Leonora Edith Bagge and George King Payne.
Thanks,
J
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I am interested in Rev James Bagge. I understand he had a son Simon born in 1834, but looking at the dates, this is definitely not your Simon. Perhaps James had a brother Simon? Rev. James Bagge was born in around 1805. His father, also James, from what I understand around 1775.
N
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FYI;
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/reels/d-45-3-32-053.pdf
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/reels/d-46-3-5-036.pdf
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/reels/d-80-3-4-067.pdf
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?name=Bagge&location=&dd=&mm=&yy=&submit=Search
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Hello
I heve tried to find the Bagge name in the church records with no luck, so appreciate the help.
There are some connects here but I can't figure them out. Some of them may be in the generation after what I've been looking at.
The surname Roderick (Cecilia) married James Bagge in 1824. I have not found the name Roderick before - Perhaps Cecilia - seems to be older, could be an aunt?
Susan Bagge may be the sister of Rosa Bagge my relative. Have you ever come across the name Rosa Bagge, born about 1841? I understood she was from Cork, not Dublin.
N
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Well I don't know, just trying to help!
No one has even given their religion so there's no point in me walking around the C of I graveyard in Carrick if they were RC.. or the RC g/yard if they were C of I
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You were a help, thank you.
I believe all these people - and the Bagges you sent before were Cof I, Rev James Bagge was at Templemichael, Waterford area. Rosa won't be in a cemetery in Ireland, she emigrated to Canada. Married Charles Sippe.
Carrick is probably the wrong area in Ireland, but thanks for the information.
N
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I notice that in the marriage certificates of two of his daughters that Simon writes his name as Simon Bagge. I presume that during his lifetime he opted to change simplify the surname from LeBagge or LeBagge-Bagge to Bagge.
My information on Simon Bagge is as follows:
Justice of the Peace, High Sheriff Co. Waterford
Simon Bagge, chairman of the Ardmore Famine Relief Committee, Ardmore House, enclosing a resolution adopted by the committee, appealing for the commencement of public works to relieve unemployment. 20/06/1846 http://www.nationalarchives.ie/search/index.php?browse=true&category=14&subcategory=82&offset=2910&browseresults=true
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=4up5gqpm1n40anr9mfbng53625&topic=458530.0
Historical sources suggest the Bagge family descended from John Bagge who settled in Waterford sometime in the early seventeenth century. In the 1870s J.H. Bagge of Ardmore House was the owner of over 3000 acres in county Waterford. Simon Bagge was among the principal lessors (landlords) in the parishes of Ardmore and Lisgenan or Grange, barony of Decies-within-Drum in 1851. The family sold the estate in the early 1920s.
[Ardmore House or Monea House]. Simon Bagge was leasing this property from the Ecclesiastical Commissioners in 1851 when it was valued at £33. It is labelled as Ardmore House on the 1st edition Ordnance Survey map and as Monea House on the later 25-inch edition. The ITA survey indicates that it was sold by John Leonard Bagge in 1921 and subsequently became an Irish college.
I do have his father as John Le Bagge and his mother as Elizabeth Rutledge.
Simon's daughter, Elizabeth Anna, is by her marriage to Joseph Deane-Freeman of Castlecor, County Cork, Ireland, my great-grandmother. Elizabeth and Joseph emigrated to Alberta, Canada. Joseph came in 1885 and homesteaded ranchland south of Calgary, near Millarville. Elizabeth's sister, Alice Maud, and some of her children from an earlier marriage (Robert Foley) also came to Millarville.
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Date: 6 June 1846
Newspaper Subject: Bagge Arabella (Nee Cox)
Newspaper: Roscommon Leitrim Gazette
Newspaper Content: The above married Simon Bagge of Ardmore House, Waterford
In order to source this newspaper article, please supply all of the information below in an email to localstudies'at'leitrimcoco.ie
Bib #: 26134
LDR: 00000nam 22000255 4500
1000: $a newsNM
900: $a Roscommon Leitrim Gazette
902: $a 6 June 1846
903: $a The above married Simon Bagge of Ardmore House, Waterford
904: 0 $a Bagge Arabella (Nee Cox)
907: $a 3 c5
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duplication of some of the info in previous post but one, but gives some extra info in the footnotes:
http://www.landedestates.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=3449
A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Landed Gentry of ... - Page 1661
books.google.ie Sir Bernard Burke - 1852 - Full view
PM
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There's some information here about Villierstown in west Waterford where there was a Rev Bagge.
https://niallbrn.wordpress.com/2015/05/07/villierstown-chapel-and-chaplains/
What year was the marriage of the Walter Croker Poole? I think he could be the grandson of Anne Fudge and Walter Croker Poole.
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=FKU1AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA102&dq=oldfield+the+reliquary+greatrakes&hl=en&sa=X&ei=iSpQVbjLMoah8QW6iYCQDg&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=oldfield%20the%20reliquary%20greatrakes&f=false
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BAGGE, John Henry, Esq., of Ardmore, Co. Waterford.
Eldest son of the late Simon Bagge, Esq., of Ardmore, J.P., and in 1848 High Sheriff of Co. Waterford
(who d. 1872), by Arabella, dau. of the late Lieut.-Col. Charles Cox, of Carrick-on-Shannon, Co. Leitrim; b.
1849.
Is a Magistrate for co. Waterford ; late Lieut. 2nd Dragoon Guards (Queen's Bays). — Ardmore House,
near Youghal ; Naval and Military Club, w. Heir Pres., his brother Simon Alfred, b. 1856.
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This tree is rather confusing (you need to work to which page attaches to which) and there are some errors with surnames, but some Bagges tie in here.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~nickred/trees/greatrakes.PDF
Perhaps Walter Croker Poole and Arabella Bagge were distant cousins?
Also back a little further - could be the same Bagge family.
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=f8kWVOafFtQC&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=leonard+bagge+kilbree&source=bl&ots=LZ2EnmVytG&sig=xs6m3P8x8FzISy5voECfEHagaO0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwix-NyoqNjMAhULlJQKHUA2At0Q6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=leonard%20bagge%20kilbree&f=false
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I do have his father as John Le Bagge and his mother as Elizabeth Rutledge.
Their marriage in 1774 was announced in the newspaper as John Bagge, not le Bagge.
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Hi J,
My grandmother's brother has shared a family tree of the Bagge's with me, since we come down from Arabella and Simon, through their daughter Leonora Payne, and seems to track back up to Sir James Bagge of 1620, who settled in Ireland, and down to several branches of the descendants, largely in Canada but our line in Zimbabwe, if that might help, and you're still looking for this? I don't know what might work best to share - I haven't mapped it on FamilySearch yet, but I could try update that and share the link?
G
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Welcome to RootsChat, G :)
Hi J,
My grandmother's brother has shared a family tree of the Bagge's with me, since we come down from Arabella and Simon, through their daughter Leonora Payne, and seems to track back up to Sir James Bagge of 1620, who settled in Ireland, and down to several branches of the descendants, largely in Canada but our line in Zimbabwe, if that might help, and you're still looking for this? I don't know what might work best to share - I haven't mapped it on FamilySearch yet, but I could try update that and share the link?
G
Hamiltonhunt has been on RootsChat recently and should respond when notified.
In the meantime, here are some links:
Arabella, born c1825 in Carrick-on-Shannon, Kiltoghert, married Simon Le BAGGE 2 June 1846 in Carrick-on-Shannon.....
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1846/09304/5368747.pdf
Kathleen Isabel Bagge born 8 Jan.1866 Dublin and Leonora Edith born 7 Aug.1864.....
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03607/2330610.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03543/2304375.pdf
Helen Ida Bagge married 1885
Kathleen Isabel Le Bagge Bagge married 1886
Leonora Edith Bagge married 1889
Arabella Henrietta Bagge married 1885
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1885/10859/5965034.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10843/5958934.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10742/5917123.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1885/10868/5968969.pdf
KG
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Hi J,
My grandmother's brother has shared a family tree of the Bagge's with me, since we come down from Arabella and Simon, through their daughter Leonora Payne, and seems to track back up to Sir James Bagge of 1620, who settled in Ireland, and down to several branches of the descendants, largely in Canada but our line in Zimbabwe, if that might help, and you're still looking for this? I don't know what might work best to share - I haven't mapped it on FamilySearch yet, but I could try update that and share the link?
Been trying to see what's already been mapped on FamilySearch - methinks an issue with the conflation of Simon Bagge's father, John, with the Rev. James - the records have been conflated, so that might need to be pried apart, since it excludes Elizabeth Rutledges, and puts in Cecilia instead - the family tree I've inherited is also vague about this timeline, squeezing an extra John in between Simon and the John who did marry Cecilia... tricky.
But looking for Arabella Cox, seems another site has tried to map out her family, so Charles Cox, and his wife Helen Thomas: https://www.angelfire.com/rnb/mrbirrell/pg000002.htm
If you've got links to the evidence of Elizabeth as Simon's mother, I can use that to fix the Family Search tree: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/fanchart/G9RV-71X
G
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Simon's daughter, Elizabeth Anna, is by her marriage......
Elizabeth BAGGE to Robert FOLEY - 28th June 1866 - S.R.D. Youghal
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1866/11538/8243859.pdf
KG
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I believe William Crawford Poole (witness) is a Bagge descendant.
His paternal grandmother was Ann Greatrakes Fudge, daughter of Ann Greatrakes by her first marriage to Thomas Fudge. Ann Greatrakes' mother was Ann Bagge.
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Fuge ?
Richard Purcell Fuge
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1890/10702/5901713.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1890/10703/5901777.pdf
executor for Simon Bagges will in 1873
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014890/005014890_00384.pdf
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John Henry Le Bagge born 1849
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:41XH-3ZN2
1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB67-S7B
1876 married Harriette Isabel M O'Dell
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DP5-6PX
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mansion_House/Fitzwilliam_Street_Upper/1348590/
Harriette died 1903
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014914/005014914_00295.pdf
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Pembroke_West/Wellington_Road/46660/
died 1917
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014920/005014920_00018.pdf
Simon Alfred jnr
died 1937 a bachelor
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1937/04790/4287790.pdf
Administration of his Estate by John's daughter Isabel value just over £10,000