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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: staplehouse on Friday 11 June 10 06:03 BST (UK)
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Hi
Can any help me with the birth of John simcock in the 1861 Census it shows that he was 40 and born at Great Bridge Stafffordshire, this would be 1821
On his marriage certificate to Nancy Butterfield on the 6 October 1847 he was living at Blackburn his father name was not sure of, is it possible for someone to known of his parents names etc.
Simcock can be spell Symcock, Simpax as it has be in some of the other census
Wait for hope,
TJ
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John could have been illegitimate. Can you post the Census details so we can see who's who. It's not easy to track someone down with too few details. Cheers Linell.
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Hi
The 1851 Census shows
John Symock Head 30 Great Bridge Staffs
Nancy Wife, 25 Blackburn
William son 1 Motrum Cheshire
The 1861 Census shows
that they lived at 30 West Street Eston
John Simpcoc Head 40 Great Bridge Staffs
Nancy 34 Blackburn Lancs
William son 11 Motrum Cheshire
Mary d 8 Whitehaven Cumberland
Sarah d 1 Eston
Nancy d 5 Eston
Thomas M??? Boarder W 65 Joiner Eston
The 1871 census shows that they where living at
151 California Eston York
John Simcock Head 47 Ironstone Miner Great Bridge Staffs
Nancy wife 43 Blackburn Lancs
Nancy d 16 Eston York
Eli son 6 Eston Yorks
RG10 48 54 57 30
cheers
TJ
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Hi TJ, this could be him in 1841. Great Bridge is on the boarder of West Bromwich:-
Oak Gullett West Bromwich
Sarah Simcox 66 Yes
John Simcox 20 Yes (Occupation looks like Moulder?)
Enoch Simcox 15 Yes
I would think Sarah was John and Enoch's Granny.
HTH Linell.
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Hi HTH Linell
Thank you for that, I have tried to find other information of this today but no luck,
Can you tell me who there father was, as on John marriage certificate it looks like Jifse Simcock or could this be short for something else,
Sarah could be there mother as there could be other children before John and between John and Enoch
Hope you can tell me something
cheers
TJ
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Hi TJ, will have a look later, will be out today. Unless someone else on here can find the parents of John and Enoch. I don't think Sarah is their mother, she would have been 50 when Enoch was born :o If they were illegitimate, John could have made up a father to save face on his Marriage Certificate? This happened a lot. By the way HTH is 'hope this helps.' :)
Linell.
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HI Staplehouse and Linell,
According to Genuki Great Bridge is a Village near Tipton and the border of of West Bromwich.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/Tipton/index.html
On a search of the Tiption IGI records there is one entry for a John Simcox.
John Simcox born 6th May 1821 - Father William mother Rachel
Siblings
Eli 17.8.1823
George 18.12.1814
Charlotte 8.6.1817
Jessie 25.4.1819
Also an entry in the IGI West Bromwich Records
John Simcox 25.11.1821
Father William Mother Lydia
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm
Interestingly your John has a son Eli and William and Rachel have a son Eli, brother to the John born 6.5.1821 in Tipton.
Not sure if they are relevant as a different spelling for the surname, but thought I would post them anyway.
Good hunting.
Cathy ;D ;D
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Thanks very much for the input Cathy, very helpful. I think the boarder of Dudley and West Bromwich Registration District, runs through that area of Tipton and Great Bridge, depending which street you lived in at the time, would depend if you were born Dudley or West Bromwich.
The Eli connection could be relevant, but in reality we don't even know if this John was baptised in a C of E Church? Needle in a haystack really. I will have a look at the later Census entries, see if I can find Enoch, you never know his mother may turn up later on as a boarder.
Cheers from Linell.
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Hi
It is interesting to see that the first lot has a daughter called Jessie, as John and Nancy grandaughter was called Jessie and Jessie brother was also call Eli Robert, but then was called Eli Robert for some reason,
Will see what else turn up cheers
TJ
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I found Enoch in 1851 Married to a Mary living at Mount Pleasant West Bromwich:-
Enoch Simcox 29 Cordwainer born West Bromwich
Mary 26 born West Bromwich
George Son aged 2 born West Bromwich
I wondered if the name George could be Enoch's father? I tried looking for a Marriage of a Jessie and or an Eli Simcox but nothing found.
Linell.
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This could be Enoch's Marriage:-
Dec Qtr 1843
SAINT Mary Dudley 18 387
I would send for his Marriage Certificate and see who he puts as his father.
Linell.
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If Sarah Simcox aged 66 in 1841 was John and Enoch's Grandmother, this could be the Marriage:-
WILLIAM SIMCOX Pedigree
Male Family
Marriages:
Spouse: SARAH CLIFTON Family
Marriage: 18 JAN 1789 Dudley, Worcester, England
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Hi
yes i did a bit of searching today and came across William Simcox married a Sarah Clifton on the 18 Jan 1789 at Dudley Worcester. They had a son then called William christen on the 11 October 1789 at Tipton Stafford
he then married Rachel Stott on the 28 July 1811 at Saint Phlllips Birmingham Warwich
hopefully this is the right family what is your thoughts
cheers
TJ
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These are the children of Wm and Rachel from the IGI:-
Charlotte Christened 8.6.1817 Tipton
Eli 17.8.1823 Tipton
Edward 6.4.1828 Tipton
William 29.11.1812 Tipton
George 18.12.1814 Tipton
John 6.5.1821 Tipton
Jesse 25.4.1819 Tipton
I don't think the above is your John, as some Mormon researcher has him Marrying a Mary Ann Baker, 8.6.1835 West Bromwich.
What makes it more difficult that there are more John Simcox's born about 1821 West Bromwich in 1851 than 1841? I tried to trace them all back to 1841 but it was impossible to say who belonged to who. Do you have any Witnesses to John's Marriage to Nancy, sorry if you have already posted that. Just thought I would ask anyway. Linell.
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Hi Linell
The witness on the wedding certificate are
Thomas Parker
Margaret Edmunidsen I think that is the way it is spell
they where married in the Register Office
Cheers
TJ
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Hi
Did a bit more research and found what you said that a John Simcox married a Mary Ann Baker but his father was william and mother was Lydia where as the other John father was William and Rachel so I am guessing that this could be the right one after all, what your thoughts
TJ
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Hi Linell
with regard to Enoch Simcox they would not be cousins would they as I have seach and found no father with a name william only have found father name as Joshua and mother as Martha could this be the case both living with their grandmother?????
TJ
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Hi
Did a bit more research and found what you said that a John Simcox married a Mary Ann Baker but his father was william and mother was Lydia where as the other John father was William and Rachel so I am guessing that this could be the right one after all, what your thoughts
TJ
Hi TJ, this could be John son of Wm and Rachel, he is Married by 1841, so not your one:-
1841 High Street West Bromwich
John Simcoks 20 Puddler Yes
Elizabeth 20 Yes
Charlotte 2 Yes
Mary Leadbetter 45
Ann Price 45
Thomas Price 5
There is a Stot family next door, doesn't that name crop up somewhere?
This family are in Barnsley by 1851 with more children.
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The only other John's in 1841 is John in Haughton Street West Brom aged 20 living with a John Roberts aged 75 a Hinge File Maker. Both Johns say NO they weren't born in County, but best not to take too much notice of that, that information is not always accurate.
Linell.
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Hi Linell
with regard to Enoch Simcox they would not be cousins would they as I have seach and found no father with a name william only have found father name as Joshua and mother as Martha could this be the case both living with their grandmother?????
TJ
There are a couple of Baptisms for Enoch 1821 West Bromwich, one to George and Mary and one to Joshua and Ruth. I presumed he was John's brother, but who knows, yes they could be Cousins. Will have a further look into that. Linell.
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The Baptism for Enoch; Parents were Joshua and Ruth was West Brom 14.7.1822. This is a submitted entry by a member of the Mormon Church, it has a Film Number, so is probably a Non Conformist Baptism, Baptist or Methodist etc. There are no more listed children for them, but that doesn't mean they didn't have anymore children? The others may have been baptised somewhere else?
Just re-read my posts, Enoch's eldest son was George, so more than likely he was the son of George and Mary. Need to find out who Mary was?
Will keep looking, Linell.
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Hi Linell
Back in the other post you sent a relpy saying that John Simcox was 20 Enoch Simcox was 15 and there was a Sarah Simcox and you said that you think that they could be her Granny,
I have done a bit of searching and have found the following see what you think
John Simcox was born 1821 to parents William and Elizabeth Blisset who where married on the 5 Nove 1821 at Saint Marys, Handsworth Stafford then i found that
William was the son of John Simcox and Sarah William being born on the 30 March 1800
Do you think that this could be right
TJ
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Well done TJ that certainly seems to fit. Maybe an idea to see if Wm had a brother George or where the name Enoch fits in, they usually used the same names down the generations, could John Simcox Snr husband of Sarah been the brother or son of an Enoch? Keep searching think you could be on the right track here. Best Wishes from Linell.
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Or Enoch could have been Elizabeth or Sarah's father :-\
Linell.
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all baptised brownend staffs children of enoch and mary simcock
jesse simcock bapt 15th april 1855
enoch simcock bapt 5th jan 1858
mary simcock bapt 5th may 1861
another jesse simcock bapt 3rd aug 1862
joyce simcock born 29th april 1867 not baptised till 30th dec 1877
charlotte simcock born 7th feb 1869 baptised 4th june 1871
herbert william simcock born 23rd may 1871 bapt 30th dec 1877
rosa simcock born 12th jan 1876 bapt 19th march 1876
mary ann simcock born 21st march 1878 bapt 12th may 1878
elizabeth simcock born 14th nov 1879 bapt 28th dec 1879
enoch simcock born 2nd nov 1881 bapt 25th dec 1879
could we be looking at 2 sets of enoch simcocks marrying mary??
regards
alli
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Hi alli, thanks for the info but we are looking for an Enoch Simcox or Blissett born in the 1700's. This family you have found could connect but we haven't got that far yet, really need to check his Marriage Certificate. I also found an Enoch in the same time frame who Married a Fanny. Cheers from Linell.
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Looks like Wm and Elizabeth had a few children, some on here, but no George or Enoch, which throws my theory out of the window. There are a few Enoch's on the IGI born West Brom, but not one with parents Wm and Elizabeth:-
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
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Hi
Sarah Cogswell married John simcox on the 18 December 1798
They had a son William born 30 Mar 1800
George born 6 May 1792 at West Bromwich Stafford
Would this be of help
TJ
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Hi TJ, yes that sounds good, so Wm could have been John's father and George father to Enoch. I would send for this Marriage and see if the details match up with the one you have for John and Nancy:-
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
SIMCOX Enoch BARNETT Fanny Tipton, St Martin (Pepper Box) Sandwell Register Office 39/3/4 1843
Linell.
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Hello,
This is my family - William Simcox with wife Sarah with child William born Oct 1789- where did you find this reference??? I have been searching and searching and have found nothing. Thank you for posting this! Please advise. I just joined now to contact you about this, not too sure how to proceed. K