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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: andacala on Tuesday 15 June 10 02:26 BST (UK)
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Hello Listers
I have some information to indicate (tenuous at best - but something to start on) that one of my ancestors was one of the Parkhurst Boys and arrived in Point Henry (Geelong) in 1847 aboard the Joseph Soames. However, having arrived changed his name to hide his past.
When he was admitted to hospital towards the end of his life, hospital admittance records indicated that he had been in Australia for 57 years and had arrived aboard the Joseph Soames in 1847. Information gleaned from other records also stated early in life that he was a carpenter. The juvenile inmates of Parkhurst Prison were taught a trade (predominatly carpentry), before their exile to Australia.
I am enquiring whether Listers are related or know what happened to the following Parkhurst Boys who were transported to Australia
Charles Bancroft - b. 1826, sentenced at Knutsford for stealing money from a shop
Edwin Bence - b 1827, sentenced at Bath for receiving stolen property
James Bransden (Bransdon) - b. 1829, sentenced at Portsmouth for stealing biscuits
Thomas Hughes, - b. 1830, sentenced at Glamorgan for stealing velveteen
John Kirby - b. 1830, sentenced in Nottingham for stealing money
Thomas Lloyd, b. 1829, sentenced at Liverpool for stealing a dress
John Martin aka Alfred Eaton - b. 1829, sentenced at Cent. Criminal Court
Thomas Matthews - b. 1829, sentenced at Bath for stealing a watch
Thomas Payne - b. 1827, sentenced at Westminster for stealing from person
James Rayner - b. 1829, sentenced at Chelmsford for house breaking
Charles Sansom - b. 1828, sentenced at Exeter for stealing iron
Thomas Sheffield, b. 1828, sentenced at Central Criminal Crt for larceny
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Hi andcala,
We have a member who has done extensive research into the Parkhurst Boys in Australia and New Zealand. I have alerted Tony to your thread.
Here is the main Australian thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,186214.0.html
and the NZ thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,80510.0.html
Cheers Kris :)
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Hello to you both.
I have a book "Convicts of the Port Phillip District" by Keith M Clarke.
The people listed are all referred to in this book as coming to Geelong on "Joseph Somes" arriving 24 Sep 1847 with the exception of Charles Bancroft.
Also James Bramsden (sic) is listed.
Also Thomas Hughes came to Williams town 4 May 1847 on Thomas Arbuthnot not Joseph Somes.
I believe as Parkhurst Boys they received a conditional pardon on arrival.As an example of their disposal Bramsden was to be a general servant to George Faithful,The Ovens for 6 months at 20 pounds p.a.
Edwin Bence was to be a general servant to Thompson and Cooper,Pyranees for 12 months at 22 pounds p.a.
My Thomas Knight came on the "Eden" to Geelong arriving 4 Feb 1849 but was on shipped to Portland Bay" per ".Sophia".
I would also love to hear from Tony as have lost contact.
Hope I can help.
Rex
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Hello Andacala,
Certainly I should be able to help you with the Parkhurst Boy "Exiles" you have mentioned as I have information for all of them, though not necessarily a great deal after they reached Port Phillip. Incidentally, I notice you did not identify your ancestor, unless of course he is one of those listed.
Could you let me know your interest in these particular boys, as I am researching for a PhD on the Parkhurst Boys themselves and their post-prison experience. Some of the information I have has been provided by family researchers and before I release any Biographies etc. I will need to obtain their approval, so an indication of your interest is vital.
I will send you a Personal Message with my email address.
My regards
Tony
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Hi,
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Hi,
I am also interested in the Joseph Soames, and I have just found this topic on rootschat.
I am looking for the arrival of my great grandfather, Thomas Brown from Westmeath, Ireland, born about 1831. I have searched all shipping lists, and the most likely candidate is a Thomas Brown who came on the “Joseph Soames” in September 1847. He had been caught in Birmingham in 1846,15 years old, for “stealing from the person”, which meant picking pockets.
He was sentenced to 10 years exile. We know that our Thomas was Irish, not English, but there was an influx of Irish people in England, as a result of the potato famine, 1846 to 1849. He could have been among them.
The authorities in Birmingham tell me that court & prison records from that time have all been shredded. I wonder if anyone has any more information about him.
Here’s hoping,
Ken
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Hello Ken,
Your Great Grandfather, Thomas BROWN, is not one of the "Exiles" ex-Parkhurst Prison that I am researching, but I have managed to find the following information which may relate to him:
Born 1832;
Tried Warwickshire (Birmingham Borough) Quarter Sessions
09/01/1846 for "Stealing from the person";
Sentenced to transportation 10 years;
Held at Millbank Prison from 20/01/1846 until sailed
aboard "Joseph Somes" 24/09/1847;
He was single, could read and write and was taught the tailoring
trade while in Millbank Prison;
Immediately on disemabarkation employed as a Shepherd to John
Brock of Mt. Macedon for 6 months at £20 p.a.
The above information is courtesy of Keith M. Clarke's "Convicts of the Port Phillip District".
Hope this helps.
Regards
Tony Cocks
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Hi Tony,
Thanks for that, it is really interesting. Now I'll try to trace that Thomas Brown and either confirm or eliminate him.
I never thought we'd find any more- what name could be more common than Thomas Brown ?
Ours married Catherine Riley, an 'orphan' sent to Australia in 1852 on the 'Diadem' with 200 other girls. I can't find much more about her either.
I suspect that both of them were abandoned by their parents in the Famine.
Thanks again,
Ken
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Hi,
I have pretty extensive info on Thomas Matthews, landed in Geelong 1847 after training at Parkhurst. Do you still need it?
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Hello peejayOz,
I would be delighted with more information on Thomas MATTHEWS, especially his life down under of which I have only the barest minimum. On the other hand I do have details of his childhood taken from the Parkhurst Prison Governor's Log 1844 that does not have general public access, for instance, the following is only a snippet of his story told to the Governor:
Parents both dead. Father had been a soldier, lived
at Bath after his discharge, died in 1836. Mother died
in 1838. She left some money for a neighbour of hers
to support Prisoner & his Brother. This person sent
them to school and treated them kindly as long as the
money lasted. Then she put them into the Union
Workhouse......................................
I have sent you a PM with my email address and look foward to exchanging information.
For the moment
Tony
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Tony
Are you finished with Thomas Knight?
We have lost contact.
Rex
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I came across a good site in Victoria,Australia, where you can search for wills & probate orders for lost relations. Simply type in a name, date range & see what pops up. Some documents are free, some you need to set up an account for, I guess it depends on how much the info is worth to us?? I will continue looking, it is possible that other states have similar facilities.
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/access/probate.asprs
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Lets try that URL again!
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/access/probate.asp
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Hello Tony,
John Lee sentenced 27/11/1843, transported on the Joseph Somes (1847) is a 'maybe' for my great-great grandfather. I would be delighted to learn anything about his early life that could prove or disprove my connection to him. John Lee is a very common name too!
If he is the same person, I'm very happy to pass on all the information I have on his later life in Australia.
Shelley
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Hello Shelley,
I would be delighted to help but, sadly, the details for John LEE ex-Parkhurst Prison are very few and far between.
He was, as you probably know, sentenced at the Central Criminal Court where he was tried for robbery at St. John's Wood and therefore it is a possibility, although very tentative, that he was born in Clerkenwell in 1827, the son of Josiah and Martha Lee. The transcript of his trial offers no further leads. One other detail which may help, as a matter of exclusion, is that he was the only John LEE to be transported as an "Exile" to Port Phillip.
Do let me know if you feel there are some avenues to be explored, especially if you have BDM Certificates that may indicate parentage, place of birth etc.
For the moment
Tony
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Hi,
Contact Tony Cocks (bac3) , I have passed on as much info as I have on the Thomas Matthews you are seeking, he has completed a detiled doc on him, complete with pics.
Phil
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Hi Tony,
Thanks for that, it is really interesting. Now I'll try to trace that Thomas Brown and either confirm or eliminate him.
I never thought we'd find any more- what name could be more common than Thomas Brown ?
Ours married Catherine Riley, an 'orphan' sent to Australia in 1852 on the 'Diadem' with 200 other girls. I can't find much more about her either.
I suspect that both of them were abandoned by their parents in the Famine.
Thanks again,
Ken
Hello Ken,
I wonder whether you had any success tracking down Catherine RILEY who married your Thomas BROWN? Please try the link:
http://www.irishfaminememorial.org/orphans/ships_vic.htm
It should produce the following information:
Riley Catherine 18 White Hill, Fermanagh NA RC PRONI BG14/G/4 (1486) 16 yr old orphan clean and healthy, Ballycassidy, Laragh, entered workhouse 12 Oct 1847, left 3 Oct 1849. Ryley. Empl. Daniel Leahy,La Trobe St., £9, 6 mths. Married Thomas Brown a policeman later a miner, Melbourne, 5 May 1852, 10 children, lived Taradale, buried Malmsbury, 9 April 1912.
Good luck
Tony
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Thanks Tony
I knew about Catherine Riley. At least we know where she came from, but all we know about Thomas is that he came from Westmeath.
I'm off to Ireland next month and I'll go up to Fermanagh and try to find someone who remembers hearing about the Riley family.
I might go to Mullingar, Westmeath and try to find something about Thomas too.
Ken
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Tony,
Sorry for my delayed reply. Life got a bit frantic for a few days with guests staying, and since then I've been sick.
What a pity you don't have more on John Lee. It would be nice to know one way or another if this was the same person. I suspect not but don't have enough information to rule him out.
"My" John Lee was born in Sept 1822, so the age is off but I thought there may have been reason in the circumstances to lie about his age. His parents (from multiple BDMs) were Joseph Lee, a ship's carpenter, and Jane King. The family were in Ratcliff in 1819, and Haggerston in 1831. He had at least two siblings, Joseph and George. I have no details of his family after that time and haven't found them in the 1841 census - too many 'Joseph and Jane's to sort through.
I do know that John Lee was married in Geelong, Victoria, in July 1849. He died in 1905, having been in Victoria for 59 years implying an arrival date of 1946.
Shelley
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Hello Shelley,
I hope you are A1 again.
Interesting that on 20/05/1846 a John LEE disembarked from the "Joseph Somes" in Hobart, having been transported for 7 years from Doncaster. After completing his servitude he sailed for Melbourne on 28/04/1852!!!
Both Ratcliff and Haggerston are essentially North Easternly areas of London, so a trial at the Central Criminal Court is highly feasible, but the age is a considerable problem, even allowing for atrocious record-keeping in those days, especially ages. Of course a lot of people only had vague ideas when they born!!
Then again did he tell a "fib", knowing that a younger age would earn preferential treatment in prison terms, such as Parkhurst, where there were no previous convictions to be taken into account, which he appears not to have had. Sadly, it all seems a little tenuous though...... the age worries me.
However, he must have arrived in Australia somehow and possibly the most fruitful sources to explore would be the Assisted/Unassisted arrivals records held by the PROV.
Do let me know.
For the moment,
Tony
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Hi Tony
I stumbled across this feed googling parkhurst exiles as i recently discovered i have a relative who was one, i was wondering what information you have on Thomas Matthews. Anything you have would be greatly appreciated as i have little on him before he came to Australia.
Thanks Amanda
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Hi Tony
I am a descendant of Thomas Matthews from Joseph Soames Exile Ship. Could you please share your informaton that you have so far on him.
Regards
Tania
Australia
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Hi
My ancestor James McCarty (born in Ireland) was sentenced to 7 years transportation for stealing an apple pie. He was tried at the Birmingham court of 1/4 sessions on 9th January 1846. The 'Australian Convict' index has him traveling on the 'Joseph Somes' in 1847 to Geelong. As he was only 17 years old I presume he was a Parkhurst prisoner. By the 1851 uk census he is back in the UK. If you have any information or confirmation you can share about his voyage and time in Australia I would be very appreciative.
I have copies of the judges notes regarding his sentence as well as a newspaper article regarding his crime and capture.
Thanks
Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
What a fantastic coincidence. My great grandfather, also Irish, Thomas Brown of Westmeath, was tried at Qu. Sessions, Birmingham, on the same day, 9 Jan.
1846, and sent to Australia on the same ship, the Joseph Soames. (See Posts 5-6 this subject.)
This is very encouraging, because there was always doubt that the T. Brown on the J. Soames was Irish. It seems probable that a number of people left Ireland for England during and after the Famine.
This is a breakthrough. Thanks,
Ken
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Hi Ken,
Thanks for your reply. James McCarty was born in Ireland (possible Westmeath), but went to Birmingham around 1938 with his parents Malachi and Bridget and his four brothers John, Malachi, Michael and Thomas. I have been trying to trace all their histories to confirm where they were born but haven't anything concrete yet. I have been in touch with Malachi Jnr's descendents in Australia. He apparently went to Melbourne of his own free will after his brother James returned to the UK. I have been able to get Malachi Jnr's marriage and death certificate from Australia which states he was born in Westmeath, so maybe James was too - yet to be confirmed.
Thanks again
Maggie
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Thanks Maggie.
I would say that they all came from Westmeath. They may have known each other. Does it say which place in Westmeath?
Thomas Brown got 10 years exile for 'stealing from the person' (picking pockets.)
Where did you find the newspaper article ? It's no big deal to steal an apple pie. Surely picking pockets would warrant a few columns more !
If you need anything looked up in Australia, let me know.
Cheers, Ken
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Hello Tania,
Delighted that I managed to put you in contact with Phil Smailes and you were able to exchange details about Thomas MATTHEWS. Hopefully this will include the Biography that Phil and I put together.
Should there be any other bits and pieces you would like, for instance about Parkhurst Prison itself, do please let me know.
For the moment
Tony
Hi Tony
I am a descendant of Thomas Matthews from Joseph Soames Exile Ship. Could you please share your informaton that you have so far on him.
Regards
Tania
Australia
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Hello Maggie,
James Macarty was not a "Parkhurst Boy" but transported from Millbank Prison on the Joseph Somes as an "Exile". On arrival at Geelong he was initially employed by Robert Sutherland of Native Creek.
You mention that he was in the 1851 England Census. This may not be the same person. He was sentenced to 7 years transportation on 09/01/1846 and would not have completed his servitude until 09/01/1853, unless of course he had received a full pardon or was illegally at large in England having absconded from down under.
Hope this is helpful.
Tony
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Hi Tony,
Thank you, I have been in contact with Phil he is my cousin by marriage. I actually live in the the next town from them. Small world. We will go through our info and anything I can add will forward onto you.
Kind regards,
Tania Matthews
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Hi Ken
My contact in Australia says his direct ancestor Malachi jnr came from Ballymore in Co. Westmeath, but hasn't been able to tell me where that information came from, so still needs confirmation.
We went to the UK earlier this year and spent a lot of time in the Birmingham Library searching the newspapers. I found the article about James in the 'Birmingham Journal' dated 3 Jan 1846, page 5 in a column headed 'Birmingham Police'. They had several accounts of villians they had caught.
The article reads as follows:-
AN EPICUREAN ROQUE - James McCarty, spoonmaker, 8 Court, John Street, was charged with stealing an apple pie, valued 2s., from the shop of John Ballenger, baker, No 50, Dale End. It appeared from the evidence, that the defendant had been in the complainant's shop about seven o'clock on Saturday night, and seeing some tempting pastry on the counter, conceived the idea of having a few of the "good things of this life," without the disagreeable necessity of expending the funds generally considered necessary to procure them. Accordingly, he returned at eleven o'clock, seized the pie in question - which was duly "served up" in court, on a tray, "knocked to smash," - and made off with it. Police Constable 339, however, witnessing his precipitate retreat, gave chase, when the defendant dropped the pie, and ran up Thomas Street - There was another charge of stealing a handkerchief, from 32 Park Street, but it was dismissed. He was, not withstanding his protestations that he was an ill-used and innocent man, sent to the sessions, to see whether a similar opinion would be entertained there.
Thanks for your offer to look up anything. Where are you in Australia? We have lived in New Zealand for the last 40 years. I was born in Birmingham.
Regards
Maggie
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Hi Tony
Thank you so much for the information, it is really very much appreciated.
I have researched his life extensively and after his transportation found him back in the UK in a Trade Directory in 1855, and getting married in 1856. He joined two of his brothers in their trade as a 'Slater' and eventually had his own business with seven employees and a servant in his house. So was delighted to see he made good. I also found his 'will' where he left around a thousand pounds to his wife. Quite a good amount for those days.
In a document about the Joseph Somes vessel it mentioned that most men would have been given a free pardon within four years of their arrival in Australia. This would make it possible for James to have returned to the UK. This is the grey area of my research and why I want to know more about his time there. So any information will be most gratefully received.
Thank you again.
Regards
Maggie
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Good morning Maggie and Ken.
I tried to respond last night when there was an exchange of messages.Something went amiss as my message went missing.May have been a senior moment.
I have a Parkhurst Boy Thomas Knight who initially came to Geelong in 1849 on "Eden".
I have a book "Convicts of the Port Phillip District" by Keith M Clarke which also lists James Macarty(sic) and Thomas Brown coming to Geelong on "Joseph Somes" in 1847.
Both James and Thomas had been received at Millbank Prison 20 Jan 1846.No mention of Parkhurst.
Thomas Brown b1832 was sent to John Brock of Mt Macedon as a shepherd for 6 months at 20 pounds per annum.
I live fairly close to Mt Macedon and will look today in case there are any local records.
He had been taught the trade of tailor.
An earlier posting gave the disposal detais for James Macarty.He had been taught the trade of shoe maker but was sent to work for Robert Sutherland in Geelong as a general servant.
Good luck.
Rex
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Hi Rex
I have researched James so much I feel like I know him. It's always very exciting to hear more about his life. So thank you very much for this new information. Any little snippets gratefully received.
Good luck with your research.
Regards
Maggie
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Can anyone confirm the following ?
The Joseph Soames set sail for the District of Port Phillip in the Colony of New South Wales, via Tasmania, with a group of teenage convicts.
On reaching Tasmania, the captain was informed that the District of Port Phillip did not accept any convicts, not even those who had served their time in other places, so called 'ticket of leave' men.
He was instructed to inform the convicts, before reaching Port Phillip, that they were pardoned (or had received some reduction of their sentences).
In the case of Thomas Brown, he later became a policeman, which is ironical.
He seems to have been dismissed fairly soon though, and became a miner.
By the way, the District of Port Phillip separated officially from the Colony of NSW and became a separate colony on 1.7.1851.
In the light of all this, it seems most likely that a convict on the J. Soames would have been free to return to England fairly soon.
Ken
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Hello Ken
Not sure if this helps.
My reference indicates that the Joseph Somes (2) arrived Point Henry Geelong 24 Sep 1847 with 249 men having departed Spithead 4 June 1847.
Only "Royal George","Thomas Arbuthnot" and "Joseph Somes(2) went straight to Port Phillip.
Six other ships went direct to VDL where they landed those convicts who had no privileged condition and those who had been issued a Ticket of Leave prior to departure from England.Only those with a conditional pardon were carried on to Port Phillip.
? Thomas Brown was born 1832.
Rex
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Thanks Rex
It does seem unlikely that the authorities in England would have been ignorant of the rules down under.
I can't find my source for the scenario I described in my last post. I thought the passenger/disposal lists from the J Soames mentioned a stop in Van Diemen's Land. I'll check again.
Thomas Brown stated that he was 42 when his youngest son Henry was registered in Dec. 1873, which gives his year of birth as 1831. His age is shown as 56 on his Death Cert. Aug. 1886, making it 1830.
By the way, Maggie, I live just outside Melbourne.
Ken
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I have checked my notes from the passenger & disposal lists.
The details from the trial etc, seem OK. He was 15, a tailor, on the pass. list.
The disp. list states that Thomas Brown went to work as a general servant with Rupert Simson of Geelong for 12 months at L22 p.a.
I'll have to visit the Vic library in Melb. to recheck.
Ken
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Hi Ken & Rex
Just for your interest.
A book by Colin Dearnley states that the Joseph Somes after a fitout at Deptford sailed to Woolwich on 6 May 1847, where the guard and 165 exiles embarked (Millbank 81 and Pentonville 84). On 18 May 1847, the ship sailed for Cowes, on the Isle of Wight, where a further 84 boys from Pankhurst embarked, giving a total of 249. A royal pardon was granted to the exiles on 28 May 1847. On 4 June 1847, the ship set sail for Port Phillip via Hobart Town.
Regards
Maggie
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If you google in: Transportation on the Joseph Somes Russell Hudson 2006 (a rootsweb/ancestry site), you will find an interesting article, relevant to the present line of discussion.
It confirms that the ship visited Hobart town, arr. 9.9.1847, and a sick person, John Little, was put ashore. It continued on to Point Henry, arr. 24.9.1847.
At Point Henry, a Lt.Addis boarded the ship and read to the convicts the conditions of their freedom, at the same time advising them to head for the bush, as the residents of Melbourne & Geelong would not welcome them in the towns.
Ken
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JOHN little b1827 ex Joseph Somes was sent ashore sick at Hobart Town to hospital.He had been conviced of housebreaking.Received Pentonville 22 Nov 1845.
He was sentenced 14 Oct 1845 10 years Ken.Maidstone Quarter Sessions.
Rex
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Was there a Richard Burke on the J. Soames, aged abt 20 ?
Ken
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Ken
No Richard Burke in my book.
Rex
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Thanks for that Rex.
Richard Burke from Westmeath was a friend (or relative) of Thomas Brown. He also settled near Malmsbury Vic. and his son married a daughter of Thomas Brown.
There was a story in the family that Brown & Burke had come out together and 'jumped ship' in Tasmania, but it seems there was no Burke on the Joseph Soames.
I also received (off-line) nine references to John Brock of Mt. Macedon, two of which named some employees, but there was no mention of a Brown.
I'm sure I found on the disposal list that Thomas Brown had been employed by Rupert Simson of Geelong. I'll recheck.
Ken
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Ken
Malmsbury is not far from where I live (Gisborne Victoria).
Rex
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Hello Ken
I have gathered a little information regarding John Brock to whom your man Thomas Brown was assigned at Mt Macedon as a shepherd.Unfortunately no reference to Thomas Brown.
John Brock came with his wife and three sons from Van Dieman's Land in 1836 and settled on land surrounding Bolinda and Emu Creeks.He built a sod hut but the next year he built the first bluestone house in the district.(I have a picture.)He leased several properties in the area.He died in 1856.
A small hill west of Romsey was named Brock's Monument.
The three Brock sons were Henry,Alexander and James.They had sheep imported from Tasmania.
Rex
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Thanks again Rex.
I now have two sources re the employment of Thomas Brown. The other one is as a servant to Rupert Simson of Geelong, which I got from the ship's disposal list. I need to recheck that source.
It may be that he was originally allocated to Simson, but in view of the opposition to employing convicts in the towns, pressure may have been exerted to find him a job in the country.
Interesting to note that neither job made use of his talents as a tailor.
I also have to check the ships arriving in other ports, to look for Brown & Richd
Burke, as they were said to have come on the same ship.
Ken
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Hello Ken
I don't think many if any of the Parkhurst boys used their trade.Mine hade been taught boot and shoe making,but worked as a farm labourer.
He had his own farm by the time he died,also a wife and eight children.
Rex
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Hi Everyone,
Does anyone know how I can find out about my ancestor, James McCarty's stay in Geelong? He was transported on the Joseph Somes in 1847 from Millbank. I have the details from 'Convicts of the Port Phillip District', but would like to know what happened next. According to the book he was given work for one month with Robert Sutherland of Native Creek, Geelong. I have him back in Birmingham by the 1851 census. Apparently everyone on the Joseph Somes was given a Royal Pardon, was this an absolute pardon remitting the whole sentence. Was he free to return to England?
I live in New Zealand so can't get to the Melbourne library. Is there any other way to get any details?
I appreciate any information anyone may have.
Regards
Maggie
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Hello Maggie,
If James McCARTY appears in the 1851 England Census then he was "illegally at large", as the terms of his Conditional Pardon restricted his movements to within "our said Australian Territories", that included NZ, until his 7 year sentence was nominally completed, that is, 09/01/1853.
I hope this will be helpful.
Tony
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Hi Tony
Thanks for that. I have just re-read the information I have about the Joseph Somes voyage and have found the following statement: " most men were given a complete free pardon within four years of arrival in Australia". So I'm hoping this was the case for my James McCarty.
Thanks again
Maggie
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Hi,
I have good info on the life of Thomas Matthews, Tony Cocks filled in some blanks before Thomas was sent to Australia on the Joseph Soames 1847.
Don't know if you have been following the thread or not.
I wonder if you have any info on the Henry Matthews, also sent out on the Joseph Soames in 1847, he was also convicted in the Bath court.
Thanks
Phil
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I have just joined rootschat after "googling" parkhurst boys and enjoyed reading a lot of the posts on various people.
.
I have an ancestor that arrived on the Joseph Soames in Geelong on 10th Sept 1847.
his name is Isaac Hembrow and was 14 at the time.
Would anyone have any information on him after he arrived in Australia. I know he married Elizabeth Setter in 1867 at Corowa New South Wales and they had 10 children.
thank you
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Hi Nelson 99
Isaac Hembrow died 1914, 82 yrs at Young NSW Reg No 13595/1914
Eliz. " nee Sutton died 1929, 82 yrs at Monteagle, Young NSW Reg no 24155/1929
Cheers
Ken Cooke
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Nelson99
Isaac HEMBROW & Eliz. SETTER mar. 1867, Reg. at ALBURY NSW Reg No 1338/1867
and had following children, reg. NSW:
1868 Robert at Wagga Wagga
1872 Mary Jane at Young
1873 Charles "
1878 Anne
1881 Harriet
1884 Catherine E.
and 1886 Christina, all at Young
Also, Robt HEMBROW & Emma/Emily had:
1868 Robert H. & 1873 Albert, both at Goulbourn
Thomas HEMBROW & Eliz had 1870 Jane at Wellingrove
Let me know if you want these Reg. Nos.
Ken
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Hi Ken
Thank you very much for that information and especially being so quick to answer. I have everything on Isaac Hembrow after 1867 ie marriage, children, death etc. and ongoing descendants. What I am missing are the 20 years from when Isaac arrived on the Joseph Soames in 1847 to his marriage to Elizabeth Setter in 1867 - sorry I should have been more specific but I was so excited to have found people talking about the Joseph Soames and the history of some of the boys from Parkhurst prison that I just didn't put down the specific details.
Also I believe his father was Joseph Hembrow and mother Jane Stacey but that is all I know of them.
Therefore if you or anyone has information on my missing 20 years or on his parents and siblings, I would be most grateful.
thank you again
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Yes I thought you must have those details, as you have found more children than I did.
I believe there are records of what happened to the 'exiles' after they arrived in Geelong. My ancestor for example, who had been trained as a tailor in prison, went out to the country to work as a shepherd. They were told to get out of Geelong. (He soon became a policeman (!) then a miner)
There's quite a lot on Isaac & family on the internet, inc. a photo of his & Eliz's gravestone at Monteagle.
And I suppose you know the details of the shooting incident in 1906 ?
It might be hard to find details of Isaac for those 20 years as there are no
BDM events recorded. I'll let you know if I do turn up anything.
Ken
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Thanks again Ken. Yes I do know about the shooting I have a copy of the article from the paper. Some of the records on the internet on the Hembrows are not 100% unfortunately. I have had contact with several people over the last few years and I have managed to have my records sorted out and verified with certificates etc. There was one story about George Isaac Hembrow having gone to South Africa (I think) but according to the paper " he was found guilty of the shooting of David Munro at Monteagle and commuted to penal servitude for life" He died in 1978 at Forbes and his residence was shown as Forbes so I guess he was released at some stage. He was 90 when he died.
Let me know if I can help you with any other information.
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JUST TO CONFIRM THAT THERE WERE NO BDM ENTRIES FOR ANY HEMBROW IN VICTORIA 1847-1867
KEN
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Nelson99
Same applies to the period 1867-1887 in Victoria
From 1887-1900- 3 births, 2 deaths & 3 marriages
From 1900-1920- Four births
" 1900-1940 No mar.
" 1900-1980 Seven deaths
If you do not already have these, let me know and I'll look them up next time I'm in Melbourne.
Ken
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To summarize:
Thomas Brown on Joseph Soames 1847
On 9 Jan.1846 James McCarty, an Irish youth, was tried at Birmingham Quarter Sessions for stealing an apple pie. He was sentenced to 7 years ‘exile’ in the Australian colonies.
On the same day, at the same place, a Thomas Brown, 15 years, received a 10 year sentence for ‘stealing from the person’ (picking pockets).
They were both received at Millbank prison on 20 Jan, and spent about 17 months there. Then they were among a group of youths transported to Cowes, Isle of Wight, where they boarded the ‘Joseph Soames’, joining a consignment of other youths from two London prisons. They arrived at Port Henry (Geelong) on 24 September 1847.
McCarty’s four brothers eventually migrated to Australia. One of them, Malachi, married and gave his place of birth as Ballymore, Westmeath.
My great grandfather was a Thomas Brown from Westmeath. I checked all the arrivals of that name and age, but excluded all from England. The only possible one was the Thomas Brown on the Jos.Soames. No country of birth was given. If he was Irish, then what was he doing in England ? I looked for other Irish ‘exiles’ and after going through the posts on rootschat again, found James McCarty, who turns out to have been from Westmeath.
Perhaps it was a coincidence, or perhaps they knew each other. They may even have come to England together, but if so, they obviously developed different ‘survival skills’.
They would have been hungry and desperate in England. It was the beginning of the potato famine, and thousands of Irish people were fleeing to England (no passport needed !)
I wonder how many more Irish youths were sentenced that day, and whether they kept in contact after arriving in Australia.
Any comments ?
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nelson99,
I have something of an unfinished Biography for Isaac HEMBROW, missing basically the first 20 years after he arrived in Australia, which I have completed as part of my PhD database on the reformatory success of Parkhurst Prison 1838-1864 and the so-called "Parkhurst Boys".
Should you like a copy of the manuscript kindly drop me a Personal Message with your email address and, possibly, help me with the 20 year gap if you can.
Regards,
Tony Cocks
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Hi Ken
I have been reading with interest about the Joseph Soames, and in particular about my Great Great Grand Uncle James McCarty. (I may have been in contact with you before). I have been researching the Irish side of my family for some time and discovered all about James and his four brothers. The oldest JOHN was my Gt Gt Grandfather, he never left England at all. His occupation 'Slater'. JAMES was transported, as you have written, but I found him back in England on the 1851 census. He later married, had his own business (with employees) as a 'Slater' and eventually had servants of his own. MALACHI was the only one to emigrate to Australia in 1858. His occupation also 'Slater'. I am now in contact with his descendants in NSW. I don't have a lot of information on the other two brothers Micheal and Thomas, but have found no information that suggests they ever left England. The reference to Westmeath has come from Malachi's marriage and death certificates, which my family in Australia have been kind enough to send me. I have seen the Ballymore reference on a family tree, but haven't been able to confirm this location with any documents, so don't know where that came from.
I would love to think that James and Thomas Brown were friends, and would really like to be able to confirm the birth places of the other brothers. Their father was Malachi and their mother Bridget. They went to England with their five sons sometime after the last son was born in 1838 and before the 1841 census, which states they were all born in Ireland.
I would really love to hear from anyone with anymore information,
Maggie
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Thanks Maggie
My 2nd cousin tells me that the Browns of Malmsbury had neighbours/friends
named McCarthy. I'll go up to the library in Melbourne soon and see what I can find about Malachi.
As he came to Victoria first, there may be more about him. I found one Malachi McCarty in the index who married in 1862, and one born the same year.
I'll check up further and post my findings.
Regards
Ken
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Hi Ken
Great to hear from you.
I went to Melbourne a couple of years ago and found that Malachi had died in the Melbourne Benevolent Asylum, Hotham. I saw the actual entries in the asylums ledger. Apparently he tried to get admitted some months earlier with Bronchitus, but was turned away as there wasn't any space for him. He eventually got accepted and died within a week or so. He married Ann Hemming in 1862. He had a son also named Malachi, so this is most likely the other Malachi you have found.
Look forward to hearing any news you may find.
Thanks
Maggie
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Maggie,
Malachi's death must have been registered as 'McCarthy'. That was in 1881.
Hotham is now North Melbourne. Get back to you soon,
Ken
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Hi Ken
Yes, some seem to use McCarthy and some McCarty which isn't unusual as it was all down to who wrote it down for those that couldn't write. My line used McCarty up to my Great Grandfather who used McCarty and Carter. I tried to track down the reason for the change to Carter and can only assume he wanted to appear more English. Some of his children used Carter and some McCarty. Both names are on his death certificate. My grandfather used Carter and so that has continued on. I was disappointed as I would have liked my surname to have been McCarty instead of Carter.
Thanks for the info about Hotham, I didn't know that. Malachi is, apparently, buried in Melbourne Cemetery in Crawford. I was hoping to visit his grave while in Melbourne, but ran out of time. I did try to find out where in the cemetery he was but couldn't get the information. I was told it is a huge place.
Regards
Maggie
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Hi Maggie
I've tried to locate Malachi's grave. There is no place called Crawford, but I think it must have been the Melb. General Cemetery in Carlton. That's by far the biggest in Melbourne.
They have no record for him, in 1881, for normal burials. If he had a charity burial, he may be in 'common ground' and unmarked. They would need to know the exact date of his burial (or death) to look him up manually.
Let me know if you have the date of his burial. It will be on the Death Cert.
Ken
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Hi Ken
Re: Malachi McCarthy
The information I have is that he died at the asylum on 2 June 1881 and was buried on 4 June 1881. Reg. no. 4833.
Thank you so much for your help. It is really appreciated.
Just in case you didn't know I am in New Zealand. We have recently moved to Nelson from Christchurch. Had enough of earthquakes!! If there is anything I can do for you let me know. I am a member of Ancestry.com so get a lot of information from there until we get back to the nitty gritty in Ireland and then it comes to a stop.
Regards
Maggie
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I've just called the Melb Gen Cem again, but they can't find him. If it was a charity burial, it is most likely in a mass grave, and these records are not conclusive.
It's a pity, because with a normal burial you can find who else is buried there, the dates, and also if there's a stone or plaque.
Are you sure it was at the Melb. General Cemetery ? That was the name of the place when my Gr g'mother was buried there in 1882, so it hasn't changed.
Let me know if it was a different cemetery.
By the way, if there is a monument, I may be able to get a picture.
Ken
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Hi Ken
The details on the schedule of deaths from Ancestry is as follows:
1881 Deaths in the District of West Hotham in the Colony of Victoria
No. 496. Died 2 June 1881 Melbourne Benevolent Asylum, Town of Hotham, County of Rourke (or Bourke).
Malachi McCarty, Slater.
Broncho Pneumonia
Deputy Registrar Robert C Marrelt? West Hotham
Buried 4 June at Melbourne General Cemetery in (looks like) Crawford or Crawforth.
Born Westmeath, Ireland.
33 years in Victoria
Widower, 3 children.
A picture of a monument would be amazing. Hopefully the above information may help.
Thank you
Margaret
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The column on the D.cert asks three things. When & where buried, and undertaker's name. So Crawford was the undertaker.
The 33 years in Victoria can't be right. If he came in 1858. he would have been here for 23 years, or did he come in 1848, the year after his brother James ?
As for the location, I had the same problem with my Gr g'father's grave in Sydney (also largest cemetery) They sent me the wrong details, six months too early, but finally I got it, and he was buried in 'common ground' so the exact location was unknown. He also died in a 'benevolent asylum'(dangerous places).
The records for such burials must be there, but it takes more time to find them.
I'll have another go later. I doubt if there'll be a monument though.
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Hi Ken
Thank you so much for all your checking. You are correct in your finding that he was in Australia for 23 years not 33. The writing is quite hard to understand.
Just checking my notes from when I sighted the Asylum records, they are as follows:-
I have sighted the actual Asylum Register held at The State Library of Victoria in Melbourne. The entries are as follows:- The first application to have Malachi admitted to the asylum was on Oct 7 1880. He had Chronic Bronchitis. He was denied admission due to there being 'no room'. He was subsequently admitted on Jan 6 1881. The entry in the register reads as follows:- Date of Application: 6/1/1881. Age: 49. Sex: M Married: Widower. Issue: 3 (meaning children) Occupation: Slater. Residence: 67 Market St, Emerald Hill. Length of Residency in Colony: 23 yrs Birth Place: Co. Westmeath, Ireland. Recommending Person: W.J. Mountain (Mayor of Emerald Hill). Reason: Chronic Bronchitis. Admitted 6 Jan 1881
I also found a note that Malachi applied for insolvency in 1867. This information was given to me by a direct descendant of Malachi's living in NSW. I did try and find some reference to this in the Melbourne library but again drew a blank. It is very frustrating isn't it when you keep hitting a brick wall, but very satisfying when you actually do get some information.
Thank you again.
Regards
Maggie
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Victorian Govt Gazette No 41, Fri June 17 1870
Page 884 Insolvencies
Return of Melbourne Insolvencies during the week ended 11 June 1870-
9th June 1870- Malachi McCarty, Slater, Emerald Hill, official assignee- Shaw
Robt H MacDonnell, Acting Chief Clerk
Insolvency Dept. Melbourne 14 June 1870
Google in- http://gazette.slv.vic.gov.au/images/1870/v/general/41.pdf
Ken
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That's really great Ken, thank you so much. As I said earlier always good to get another piece of the puzzle. I guess times weren't so good for Malachi in Australia.
I can't thank you enough for your help.
Regards
Maggie
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Does anyone have any information about a Michael Hennessy (a Parkhurst boy) who arrived on the Joseph Soames in 1847, disembarking at Pt Henry in Geelong. I am trying to find out if he was my great, great grandfather who arrived in Victoria at about this time, married Maria or Mary Whelan in 1865, children Mary Ann, Catherine, Amelia, John Francis and William.
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I can confirm that Michael Hennessy b1828 arrived Geelong on "Joseph Soames" 24 Sep 1847.
Sentenced 7 years 1 Feb 1844 trial MDX Clerkenwell General Sessions.
Convicted of stealing bacon.Received Parkhurst 12 Jul 1844,taught trade oe gardener.
Sent ashore not having obtained employment to his liking onboard.
Single ,reads and writes.
Conditional pardon on arrival.
Ref. "Convicts of the Port Phillip District" by Keith M Clarke.
No other information.
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Thanks very much Lazarus.
I do already have this information and am trying to find out more about Michael Hennessy after he arrived so I can verify (or not) that he is in fact my relative.
Louise
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Louise
Have you checked Victorian marriage and birth indexes?
Do you have evidence of marriage to Whelan?
Rex
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Hi Rex,
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Louise
I can see a birth 1868#7490 for a Catherine Hennessy at Bellarine which could be a possible location.
Parents fit.
No matches for other children.
Rex
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Hi Rex,
I do have evidence of the marriage, index entry only, as no certificate is available in BDM. I also have his death certificate and the birth certificate for his son John Francis, so I do have some facts. It is the gap between 1847 and 1865 I am interested.
Louise.
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Hi Lazarus,
Thanks, yes, that is my relative. Ref 7490.
Louise.
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Hi, I am also a descendant of Thomas Matthews through his son George Matthews.
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Hi
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Re Thomas Matthews, who arrived in Australia on the Joseph Soames.
Hi i would love to see this "details about Thomas MATTHEWS. Hopefully this will include the Biography that Phil and I put together."
Regards, Jenni
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I am also looking for information on Isaac Hembrow but since I am new to the site can not PM yet so though I would post a couple of posts here and maybe Tony (BAC3) or nelson99 could get back to me?
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Isaac Hembro was a Parkhurst Boy.
Sent to Geelong on "Joseph Somes" 24 Sep 1847 sentenced 7years Somerset Assizes 30 Mar 1844.Convicted of stealing potatoes.Rec'd Parkhurst 12 Jul 1844,taught trade of gardener.Single,reads and writes.No record of disposal.
Others may be able to provide further detail.
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Many thanks
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Hayley
You should be able to use PM facility now.
Rex
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Hi Everyone,
There seems to be a huge amount of information on this ship and the Exiles it carried to Australia in this thread. What do people think about putting all the information together and putting it up on the web? It would be a great opportunity to get it in one place and also connect those researchers with an interest in the Exiles detailed?
Cheers,
Laren
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Tony Cocks ( BAC3 ) is working on the Parkhurst Boys towards his Phd.
I think he should be cosulted.
Rex
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Tony has been most generous with his information which was quiet extensive just for my one family member so his database must be massive. From what he shared with me, there is 4,000 "Parkhurst Boys" over the period 1838-1864. It would be wonderful if we could find some backing/finances to help complete his research.
Having never heard of these boys or type of Australian "convict/exile" 2 weeks ago I certainly have a greater understanding now.
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Tony Cocks ( BAC3 ) is working on the Parkhurst Boys towards his Phd.
I think he should be cosulted.
Rex
Rex,
Don't get me wrong, I/we wouldn't just be taking information off the thread. People would need to actively contribute to the page ie send the stuff to me or give permission for its use.
And while Tony is looking at the Exiles program as a whole, this would just be for the Joseph So(a)mes. Just seems a waste not to consolidate the information into a more useful format.
Cheers,
Laren
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Hello Laren
My " Exile" was Thomas Knight ex "Eden" 1849.
He was intended for Geelong but was onshipped to Portland Bay on another ship.
Worth keeping in mind.
I have the book Convicts of the Port Phillip District by Keith M Clarke.An excellent reference for "Exiles " to Victoria.
Seems "Joseph Somes" may have arrived Point Henry-Geelong.
Cheers
Rex
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Does anyone have any information regarding Charles Tait, a Parkhurst Boy who was sent to Australia on the Joseph Soames in 1846? He was 12 years of age.
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Val15,
Sadly there was no Charles TAIT on the "Joseph Somes"
However, there was a Parkhurst Boy, Charles William Wright TAITT, who was transported on the "Randolph" and for whom I have a fairly reasonable Biography. If you would check your details I am more than happy to let you have a copy of the narrative.
For the moment,
BAC3
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Thank you but Charles William Wright Taitt is not the one. My Charles Tait left England on the Joseph Soames on 18th December, 1845 for Van Diemen's Land, arriving in1846, according to the convict records. I know that he went to live in New Zealand in 1858 and lived there for the rest of his life. I wondered if anyone had any details of his time in Australia or information about his family back in England.
Val
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Val15,
I think your original message was slightly misleading.......Charles TAIT was NOT a Parkhurst Boy but an ordinary convict and not of interest to me as such. There was indeed a Charles TAIT on the "Joseph Somes" quoted on the ship's full passenger listing and not on the shortened "Parkhurst Boys" counterpart at http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/park9.htm
Good luck in your research
BAC3
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BAC3,
Sorry about that. I assumed that because he was only 12 years of age he would have been treated as a boy prisoner and sent to Parkhurst before being sent to Australia. I have found a site that has given me more information but couldn't open the link you gave. Thank you for your help.
Val
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Hi,
I am doing some research on Boaz RICKARD aka RICHARD who was one of the Parkhurst boys aboard the Joseph Somes which arrived in 1847. If anyone can supply any information on him once he landed in Geelong I would be very grateful.
Kind regards
Lorna
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I have the book Convicts of the Port Phillip District by Keith M Clarke.An excellent reference for "Exiles " to Victoria.
Seems "Joseph Somes" may have arrived Point Henry-Geelong.24 Sep 1847
Boaz Rickards convicted of stealing fruit.
Rec'd Parkhurst 12 Jul 1844 , taught trade of cook.
He was single , reads and writes.
Disposal as a shepherd to William Piper of Mt Macedon , for six months at 18 ponds p.a.
In a separate crime, his father, William, was transported for 7 years, arriving in Hobart aboard the William Jardine on 20/11/1844.
Is the name Richard or Richards?
Boaz RICHARDS, born c1828 in Horsley, Gloucestershire, was the son of William and Martha RICHARDS.
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Hello,
I regret I'm new to rootschat and still trying to find my way around posting hence my delay in getting back to you.
The RICKARDS family belong to a friend in the UK so I am going on her information on the spelling but it does look like that on the 1841 census. On a shipping record I found it was shown as both RICKARDS and RICHARDS. Boaz was convicted with a Thomas CLEUDLEY who on the 1841 census seems to have lived a couple of doors up from him.
Thanks for the information and especially that regarding his father as I'm not sure if my friend is aware of it! It also answers the question 'where was William when the 1851 census was taken?'.
Again, many thanks.
Kind Regards
Lorna
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Hello Lorna,
I understand there may be references to Boaz RICKARDS in the Australian Electoral Rolls from 1903 onwards. Possibly this may be helpful in your search. Unfortunately I do not have access to these particular records.
BAC3
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Thanks BAC3.
Here's hoping I have access to those Electoral Rolls.
Kregards,
Lorna
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I understand that at least one of the commercial family history online organisations use a search engine that may produce results that may suggest Boaz is on electoral rolls from 1903. However, it is also my understanding that the 1903 result actually comes back to a Boaz ROBERTS, a market gardener, in Sandringham, Victoria. Could that be him?
JM
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:) :)
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/convict-exiles-index
Notice that the NSW Archives index spells the ship as Joseph Somes ::) :P and they seem to have his surname as RICHARDS ::) :P
From memory, I think it was their Reel 704 noted recently as being useful.
NSW archives indexes often work well with just ONE word in just ONE box ;D ;D so I tried Boaz, :D :D and I tried same in a commercial website's box too. :) :) :)
JM
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There seems to be a number of RICKARDS in the Gloucestershire area on census returns and on the members.iinet.com.au site I found:
Parkhurst Boys - Joseph Somes 1847
Rickards Boaz age 16 to serve 7 years 2 July 1844 for stealing fruit
aka (Richards, Boas), retrained as a cook
refer HO 11/15 p 182
So when researching I look for both RICKARDS and RICHARDS.
As yet I haven't come across him on any of the Electoral Rolls but will keep looking. Many thanks
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Hi MAJM,
I guess anything could be possible re Boaz as I believe a number of the Parkhurst Boys changed their name. I will be following your suggestion through and thank you.
Regards
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Dear All,
I am a researcher looking into the history of a transportee (Richard Hill) who was about 17 at the time of transportation and who may well have been operating under a false name. Please can you inform me whether there was anyone onboard the Joseph Soames by that name, or of that age, convicted in central London at the old bailey? Thanks so much. Tom