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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: audrey on Friday 18 June 10 14:19 BST (UK)
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I would like to get a death cert for either James Douglas or his wife formally Ann Smith they both died December 1848 in Dumfries of cholera. I have had no luck finding a marriage for them either first child born Torthwarld 1825 so have been unable to confirm the parents of James Douglas born c 1800 I do know Ann Smith was the daughter of James Smith and Ann Glendining she was born Torthwald 1806 any advice appreciated
Audrey
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You will not find any death certificates for anyone in Scotland before 1855 when statutory registration was introduced. The best you can expect is a reference in the Old Parochial Deaths and Burials Register kept for the parish where the person was buried.
In the 1848 cholera epidemic there were 251 deaths/burials registered in St Michael's Parish in Dumfries. The list records only two for DOUGLAS, Ann aged 46 buried Dec 2, 1848 and James aged 47 buried the same date. The OPR list only one SMITH, Menie aged 21 buried Dec 14, 1848
The OPR gives no details other than name, age and date of burial.
You can see a photo tour of this graveyard at http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dfsgal
Use the index to find Dumfries Graveyards then St Michael's
There is a general memorial at the location of the mass burial to those who died in the first cholera epidemic of 1832 [no names are given] and very few are recorded. I've been told that was because the clerk was an early victim and nobody took on the task of registering the names of those buried. The monument inscription states that '..more than 420..' were buried in the mass grave.
There is nothing in the graveyard to indicate where the 1848 epidemic victims were buried but again I'm told they are under what is now paved pathways leading to Burns Mausoleum.
Sy
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!832 Cholera Epidemic Memorial in St Michael's Kirkyard Dumfries
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Thanks for the very detailed reply ,very sad ,yes that is James Douglas and his wife Ann.They were my G.G.Grandparents
Audrey
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Hi I found your post i have a James Douglas born 1799 in Closeburn Dumfries my g.g.g. granfather is he any relation to your Douglas relatives as I am in Australia trying to get further back than this or finding siblings is proving difficult thank you in advance for your reply bye Jennifer
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Jennifer
If you can give me a bit more info I may be able to help I.E.name of wife and any children
Audrey
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Hi Audrey thank you for your reply i made a mistake writting James the name is John Douglas born 1799 in Closeburn married a Charlotte Nivison incloseburn in 1832 they had 3 children 1 john douglas born 1833 in keir dumfries 2 william douglas born 1836 in keir dumfries 3 jannet douglas born 1839 keir dumfries William is my direct ancestor he married a Jannet born 1835 in scotland from english census they had 7 children the 1st born in torthorwald her name is Jannet born 1855 2nd john douglas born 1858 in farlam cumberland eng 3rd charlotte douglas born 1860 in farlam cumberland 4th elizabeth douglas my direct ancestor born 1862 in tindalefell cumberland 5th james born 1864 6th william douglas 1867 7th mary douglas born 1870 i have sent for elizabeths birth certificate to find out her mothers maiden name i look forward to your reply thank you for your time regards jennifer
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hi jefna
there is a submitted entry for birth of janet douglas
on family search,24th dec 1855,christened jan 11 1856
torthorwald dumfries,parents william douglas and
janet,maiden name king.
eva
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Hi Eva Thank you very much i appreciate you looking for me it helps to know the maiden name of the mother I can look for her family now thanks bye Jennifer
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there is a submitted entry for birth of janet douglas
on family search,24th dec 1855,christened jan 11 1856
torthorwald dumfries,parents william douglas and
janet,maiden name king
Hi Eva Thank you very much i appreciate you looking for me it helps to know the maiden name of the mother I can look for her family now thanks bye Jennifer
Hi Jennifer.
I would be careful about this information as it has been submitted by a member of the LDS and doesn't state the source. Civil registration commenced in Scotland in 1855 and the Familysearch IGI has transcriptions of births and marriages 1855 to 1875 from the Statutory Registers so in theory there should be an entry for the birth transcribed from the Statutory Registers but there doesn't appear to be.
Andy
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Hi Andy thank you I am waiting for a birth certificate that will answer my question I hope, also on the census where born part Jannet Douglas born 1855 was listed as being born at Thuthnella Scptland is there such a place or did they spell Thorthoerwald wrong thank you everyone for helping bye Jennifer
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Hi Andy thank you I am waiting for a birth certificate that will answer my question I hope, also on the census where born part Jannet Douglas born 1855 was listed as being born at Thuthnella Scptland is there such a place or did they spell Thorthoerwald wrong thank you everyone for helping bye Jennifer
Hi Jennifer
I can't find a place called Thuthnella, which census gives that as a bithplace for Jannet?
Andy
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the 1911 english one she is called Janet Woof it is badly written regards jennifer
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Hello Eveyone How are you all I have found the Christening entry for Jannet Douglas born 1855 and the Scource Call Information Batch number 7227309 Sheet 22 Scource Call No 0822054 Type Film it gives her parents as William Douglas and mother Janet King thanks for helping me i looked again at the 1911 census and I think the Transcribers misspelled it asTuthnela I have found so many spelling mistakes when searching others . I found a marriage for William Douglas and Janet King in Torthorwald in July 1855 the Scource Information is Batch No M118501 Sheet00Dates 1855-1875 Scource Call No 60335516Register Type Film, can anyone advice me how I can Trace the family further back from here or put me in the right direction I really appreciate your help I havent received the Birth certificate yet but will let you know if the name is correct bye regards Jennifer
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Hello I promised to post when I got Elizabeth,s birth certificate it arrived today and her mother,s maiden name was King thank you again can anyone please direct me to where I can get more information on both her parents thank you bye Jennifer
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hi dont know if this is of any help if you go to scotlandsplaces there is a horse tax record if you go to thortwald there is a john douglas paying horse tax 1797-8 at a place looks like collen thortwald that is on page three of the record for thortwald ,wondering if connection to your douglas james father ?
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p.s. just a little follow up also on page one there is a john smith on page 2 jas smith and page three there is glendinning all at thortwald 1797 paying horse tax could be the parents?
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thank you very much for that information i will certainly have a look i appreciate it thanks again jennifer
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jefna there is douglas and nevinson listed on horse tax for closeburn have not checked for king
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hi harry can you send me the address for scotlands people it sounds like you are on a winner there thanks heaps also do you have to subscribe to it and what do you need i have paypal elizabeth king i cant find anything but her marriage and the same for charlotte nevison so you have done great i am thrilled to be able to trace my ancestors who are you researching isnt it a wonderfull feeling when you find someone regards jennifer
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hi, the web address is www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk the site is free to use let me know if you find the horese tax records ok, if not i can copy and send to you in e.mail another site that is interesting and also free is www.scran.ac.uk i just googled and there is a church at closeburn the library at dumfries ( the ewart) has gravestone inscriptions for parish churches around dumfries i would think they will have the one for closeburn i am in glasgow but my grandmother is burried in tinwald churchyard dumfries and i get down there a few times a year its possible i may be down there again on friday cant promise thou if you can give me the names you are looking for ,if i get down i could look up inscriptions for that name "s it may help you with info from stones if they are the same. i managed to help a chap in arizona with tinwald gravestone i found and the info from stone tied in with his search he came over in june and i met him at tinwald we had great day you could also put up post in dumfries room to see if anyone local would look up the gravestone incriptions as i say i may get down on friday but not sure yet the name i am searching is unusual name its staulkey it originates in suffolk england have got as far back as 1804 now hit a wall so most of my searching has been english records p.s. the name staulkey can only find one other with that name and he like me has no family so name will die out there just seems to have been tight knot with the name hope the horse tax records help you generaly find in small areas like that familys are connected
cheers
allan
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Thanks Harry I will look up the names and get back to you I found the site and found the horse taxes it gave me an idea where the Nivisons lived so I could look for Charlotte Christening but she proves elusive but I wont give up I have just recently found out about the Douglas connection thank you for offering you are very kind I appreciate it so very much bye so I can get onto finding the names I dont know how to go back and forth on the computer I usually press the wrong buton and loose everything so I darent leave this open to have a look regards Jennifer
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Hi Alen sorry I apologise for calling you Harry I have looked up John Douglas born 1799 in Closeburn and it seems he was living with his son John Douglas born 1833 in Keir in the 1881 scottish census in Kelton Kirkudbrightshire so he will probably be buried there I cant find Charlotte Douglas born 1811 nee Nivison after the 1841 census for Roniston she isn,t in the 1851 census I have to assume she died John was an agricultural Labourer so I wouldnt know where she is buried as I dont have a clue where roniston is I dont have information on any other family members sorry no parents for John or Charlotte yet.WilliamDouglas born 1836 and Janet nee King born 1835 his wife moved to Farlam Cumberland before 1857 as they are on that census and had only one child in scotland Janet Douglas born 1855 and lived and died in Farlam so I dont know if you find anyone thanks for the help though I really appreciate it . I think you are right about the families being close knit if I could get Charlottes details it would open a few doors so I will keep on trying you have been a great help thanks again I wish at times I was over there it would be so easy to travel around to get info I reckon it would be great fun instead of being on a computer all the time dont worry if you cant find anything I appreciate your kindness kind regards Jennifer
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Hi
Was wondering if you ever found the death certificate of James Douglas as i have a certificate for cholera victims and there is a James Douglas age 47.
maisie
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Hi
Was wondering if you ever found the death certificate of James Douglas as i have a certificate for cholera victims and there is a James Douglas age 47.
maisie
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Hi Maisie thank you but it was John Douglas and I found him living with his son in Farlam Cumberland England and he died there in 1886 many thanks for your message regards Jennifer
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Hi
Was wondering if you ever found the death certificate of James Douglas as i have a certificate for cholera victims and there is a James Douglas age 47.
Maisie
Hi Maisie I was the one who was looking for info on James Douglas also his wife Ann Douglas who both died of cholera the same day December1848 I would be interested in anything you might of found
Audrey
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Hi Audrey
I have the certificate with all the cholera victims on it as my 4x Great Grandfather Martin McGuire also died on the same day as your James Douglas and Ann Douglas as they are on the certificate too. If you don't already have it i could send you it.
Maisie
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Hi Audrey
I have the certificate with all the cholera victims on it as my 4x Great Grandfather Martin McGuire also died on the same day as your James Douglas and Ann Douglas as they are on the certificate too. If you don't already have it i could send you it.
Maisie
I didn't know here was such a thing as a certificate. I researched this topic a couple of years ago as part of a DGFHS submission to the BBC WDYTYA magazine. I extracted the data from the OPRs for St Michael's Church.
It runs to nine pages of A4 text and lists all the 1848 burials where for the deaths attributed to cholera. Anyone who wants the file contact me by PM and leave your e-mail address.
Cheers,
Sy