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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Laois (Queens) => Topic started by: kirm2 on Tuesday 22 June 10 13:29 BST (UK)
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Hi all
I'm looking for any information for a Julia Hartford born 1877 in Abbeyleix.
She married Joseph Burke, Ballymaddock, Abbeyleix in 1904.
Joseph's mother - Catherine Guilfoyle born 1835 (approx) who married a Joseph Burke in 1870.
I've had some gravestones advised to me from a very helpful gentleman. Thank you all in anticipation.
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Hello kirm2,
welcome to rootschat. :) What kind of information do you need?
Family Search pilot site http://www.rootschat.com/links/090n/ has her birth and marriage in the indexes. If you click on her name, then you will get the year 1977, volume and page numbers which you need to send for certificates. http://www.groireland.ie/
The references to fim/image numbers can be ignored- they are just for viewing the indexes at a Family History Centre.
There is only one Julia in 1901 census,and although it says born England, there is no-one in the English indexes to fit.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003710158/
1911 has her with Joseph http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Queen_s_Co_/Abbeyleix/Ballymaddock/781170/
best wishes
heywood
Moderator Comment: URL modified, as it was 'too long. See Shrink Link at bottom of page
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Thank you very much for your assistance Heywood.
I tried asking groireland for her birth cert and marriage cert but they said that they need an exact date as I only have the year to go by which was extremely disappointing. I got the birth cert of Julia's daughter Christine as I had her exact date but the other requests were denied so I just don't know how to go about getting an exact date unless someone else has researched her before?????
Any ideas would be great!
thanks so much.
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I would have thought that now you have the reference:
1877 Abbeyleix vol 18 pg 358
that would be sufficient.
ps thanks to moderator for adjustment
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and the references for Julia's marriage :
Name: Julia Hartford
Registration District: Abbeyleix
Event Type: Marriage
Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1904
Volume : 3 / page : 255
Name: Joseph Burke
[same index detals]
See the topic Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html) for details on searching the BMD index, ordering certs etc..
Shane
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Thank you both very much for your help.
I'm off to check out that link now Shanew147.
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Please excuse my ignorance if this is a silly question but...
Where do I go to search for the birth certificate for Catherine Guilfoyle born 1842 (according to the Family search - thank you Shanew147!!) and died 1913? The "Gro" tell me that their records do not go that far back - so in order to find out who her parents were I need to find the record. I know that she was born in Abbeyleix but that is all.
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Civil registration started in 1864, so no birth certs will be available before this date. To look for a birth in 1842 you will have to search parish records. To do this you need to know the family religion and the parish they lived in at the time, so you can check if records are available.
What year did Catherine Guilfoyle marry ? 1870...
A marriage cert would give you her father's name and the bride's residence at time of marriage, which would be a useful start..
Shane
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There's a marriage for a Joseph Burke in the Abbeyleix registration district in 1870... but I dont see a cross-match for Catherine :
Name: Joseph Burke
Registration District: Abbeyleix
Event Type: Marriage
Registration Quarter and Year: 1870
Volume : 3 / page : 465
There seems to be a few different Catherine/Kate Guilfoyles in the county at the time as there are two marriages in the same year for the name in Abbeyleix district (neither match the refs above), and several others in nearby areas. Are you certain about the year for the marriage ?
Have you located this Catherine on the 1901 census return (I see she's a widow in 1911) ?
Shane
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Thanks for the help Shane.
The Family Search searchengine has shown that there was a Joseph Burke born to Joseph Burke and Catherine Guilfoyle on 26th May 1971.
Catherine is now Burke on both the 1901 and 1911 census' and there is no mention of Joseph in either - but I found a record of a death of Joseph Burke in Abbeyleix in 1874. It appears they only had one child (Joseph born 1871).
I thought that I'd found their marriage on Family Search - the film and digital folder numbers match - but I see from a point made above that its only the volume and page numbers that count.
Aaaarrrrrgh its soooooo confusing when you don't know what you are doing haha!!!!!
I guess its back to the drawing board...
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based on the extracted record you located, these are the corresponding details from the BMD index you will need if you want to order a cert from the GRO :
Name: Joseph Burke
Registration District: Abbeyleix
Event Type: Birth
Year: 1871
Volume : 8 / page : 441
(The 441 included in the birthplace on the extracted record indicates the page on the civil register)
Shane
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Thanks for your help yet again Shane.
I've now ordered birth certs for Joseph and Julia in order to progress as I just can't find any other Catherine Guilfoyle that matches Joseph Snr.
I've noticed too that on the 1911 census there is a 10 year old Mary Davison named in the same house as being a boarder - would you have any suggestions as to how I might find out who she was? I've searched on the Family Search sites and I can't find anything. On that census she is the only Davison listed for that county. On the 1901 census there is only one other family listed with that surname. Could they be related?
thanks
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I am not sure if Mary D. would be a relation ... she's described as a boarder in the 'relationship to head' column, and her place of birth is just ditto'd from the entries for the rest of the family. Sometimes details like this can be inaccurate for non-family members, and in this case the census form seems to have been filled in by the enumerator - Const. Ryan (since Catherine could not write).
I wonder is her true surname could be Davidson or even Davis ?
Shane
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Hmmmmmmmmmm I wonder... I have the birth cert for one of Joseph and Julia's children, Christina, and there is a Mary Davin present at birth in the house - I wonder could this be her.
Anyhoooooooo, Julia's birth cert arrived this morning and her parents are John Hartford (Abbeyleix) and Margaret Power.
On the 1901 census there is only one John Hartford in Abbeyleix aged 50 with 4 children aged between 6 and 12 but there is no wife mentioned on the form. There is no married Margaret Hartford listed on the census so I have no idea what age she would have been when she had Julia - do I presume she is dead at this point? Also, Julia would have been 22 on this census and this current family is much younger - could he have re-married? I cannot find any information on a relevant John Hartford on the Family Search - there is one Margaret Power marriage in 1874 in Abbeyleix but it does not give the grooms name.
John Hartford is not on the 1911 census - so again, presumably dead?
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Hello again,
there is this marriage:
Abbelyleix 1876 vol 18 pg 291
Margaret Power
and the same reference for John Hartford
From the four deaths on Family Search, the only possibility for Margaret looks like 1885. (birth 1839).
There is a marriage for a John Hartford 1886 which may follow.
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Wow - thank you ever so much Heywood.
I've found the records that you are looking at. I saw that death for Margaret in 1885 but I dismissed it - as she would have been 62 in the 1901 census if she had been alive and John was 50 at that time - maybe its not so odd after all.
Do you have any suggestions as to how I might proceed from this point - sorry its the first time I've done anything like this and I'm a bit bamboozled!!
Thank you.
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Well of course, those records may not apply.
I suppose you could try the death record for Margaret to see and of course the marriage record.
I got myself quite confused as there are records on there for James Hartford and Catherine Guilfoyle/Kilfoyle but then re-read the posts (also a William Hartford and Bridget Kilfoyle :D)and a couple of Joh Hartfords.
Have you got the marriage cert of Julia and Joseph Burke to confirm her father's name and occupation- that should be the start really.
What is John's occupation on the birth certificate?
heywood
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No I don't have the marriage cert - I'll try again for that one.
It states John's occupation as Labourer on Julia's birth cert.
I've found two death records for Margaret Power both in 1895 - one birth year is 1831 and the other is 1833.
Judging from the children's ages on the 1901 census that would mean that William Hartford (the last child) was born in 1895 when Margaret was 62/64!! Unlikely I think ;).
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Aaaarrrgh I've just realised why that marriage cert was refused last time... The marriage cert records only start from 1920 here so I'll have to go to the parish where they were married.
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There is a John Hartford, 68 yrs widower in 1911 census. :-\
I think the marriage certificate is needed. :)
Did they not get married in Ireland?
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Yes, they did indeed get married here but online records only start for marriages in 1920 unfortunately... So its a case of going to the parish register - so I'm told ::).
I totally missed that John Hartford aged 68!!! It would mean that the 1901 census is 8 years out though - although I suppose in alot of cases its not accurate.
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I've found two death records for Margaret Power both in 1895 - one birth year is 1831 and the other is 1833.
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should that not be a death cert for a Margaret Hartford (her married name) ?
Shane
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LOL - YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!!
Ok time to get off the computer - I'm going in all the wrong circles - thanks Shane.
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There is a marriage on Family Search:
1904 4th quarter vol 3 pg 255 Julia Hartford and Joseph Burke (both same reference)
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... they did indeed get married here but online records only start for marriages in 1920 unfortunately... So its a case of going to the parish register - so I'm told ::).
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I presume that restriction is to do with the local registration office. The GRO Roscommon will be able to provide the cert based on the references heywood mentioned earlier..
p.s. I am presuming that 'here' means Ireland ...
Shane
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There is a marriage on Family Search:
1904 4th quarter vol 3 pg 255 Julia Hartford and Joseph Burke (both same reference)
I think we had that one earlier also.... (reply 4 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,463881.msg3245619.html#msg3245619)) we're definitely going in circles now!
I think your next step is to order a few certs from the GRO to confirm all this..
Shane
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Did we really? ;D I called myself to look but it's catching ;D
No worries.
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at least we both came up with the same cross-match - double confirmation!
S.
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Hehehe this is soooo enjoyable when you are not being utterly confused!!
I gave myself a good shake and checked again. I found the death of Margaret Hartford in 1885 aged 46 - which makes sense with Julia being 22 in 1901 and the next "batch" of children being born between 1889 and 1895. So I'm assuming that he re-married.
I found a marriage record for John Hartford in 1886 but have no idea whom he married. I'm off now to order certs for the younger children and see what that brings.
Thank so much for your hard work both of you ;D
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Don't forget the marriage certificate - also it may not be the same John Hartford.
Good luck and please let us know what happens :)
heywood
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Hi there. A bit of a long shot since this thread has been inactive for several years...
I have a Julia Hartford on my tree, born Abbeyleix around 1879. She married a John Staughton in Middlesex, England in 1908 and after having two children the family emmigrated to the USA in 1911, first to New York and onward to settle in Illinois.
On her death in Illinois in 1926 her parents are given as William Hartford and Bridget Killfoyle.
Could this be the same Julia Hartford?
Dave
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Hello Dave and welcome :)
I wonder if this is Julia’s birth - Judith Hartford parents William and Bridget
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03112/2141474.pdf
The one who is on this thread previously was the daughter of John Hartford.
If you would like more information, it is best to make this a separate thread. If you click on ‘report to moderator’, you can just ask for your post to be separated and start a new one.
Regards
Heywood
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Queen_s_Co_/Abbeyleix/Temperance_Street/1640798/
??
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Abbeyleix and Ballyroan
Diocese of Kildare and Leighlin | Counties of Laois, Kilkenny
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0685