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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: bellababy on Friday 25 June 10 18:34 BST (UK)
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Hi
Im hoping someone can help solve a mystery - Im trying to trace Bernhard Wilhelm Martin Emil WIENER born in 1879 but i dont know where ? He married in 1905 in Newcastle upon Tyne to Marie karoline LINNAKUGAL.
Their parents are stated on their marriage cert as Rudolf Theodor Theophial WIENER deceased (furniture manufacturer) and Fritz LINNAKUGAL (farmer) By 1909 they had a child who they name Alfried Heindrich and a short time after that they ( for whatever reason ) left the uk leaving behind their child . As far as we know they never returned but the story goes that a guardian attempted to adopt the child but was unable to as the parents we still alive ??
Any information would be appreciated
ps witnesses to marriage were L A Donnellan and Ane Nielson
Bellababy
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Hello and welcome to rootschat.
What is Bernhard's occupation on his marriage certificate?
Have you found any of them in 1911 census?
I wonder if this is the witness:
1901 RG13; Piece: 4772; Folio: 98; Page: 24
Leon Archibald Domelan 16 yrs Apprentice Mechanical Engineer
(reads as Lionel Donnellan )
living with his family -father is a Naval Officer
not much help, I know
heywood
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Good morning Heywood
His occupation was down as being an electrical engineer but as of yet i havent been on the 1911 cencus that will have to be my next thing to do
Thanks
bellababy
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Hi Heywood
Ive just had a look at the 1901 census for Leon Domelan and i think you are probably right as the occupation s and area that they are living in etc all seem to match up - if only i could find out where Bernhard came from and where he went to !!
Thank you again
bellababy
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I don't have full access to Anc. but it shows a Rudolf Wiener as an incoming passenger to Southampton.
You would need someone with full access to check it out.
I can't see anything about Linnakugal anywhere but there are one or two references to the name Linnenkugel on the web. :-\
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I found a few Rudolf Weiner's on Ancestry... but not knowing sufficient about him, difficult.. They are mostly from Germany...
xin
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that could be an additional problem - the surname at marriage is Wiener not Weiner.
Are any of the Rudolf's you found, furniture manufacturers?
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Hi ive not been around for a bit but i have a little more information if it helps B W M E WEINER - please note the change of spelling in the surname ?? and his wife M K WEINER formerly Linnenkugel not only had a son but also had two daughters - Beatrice Kate M WEINER born also in Newcastle upon Tyne - 66 Hannah Street on 7 july 1906 and also Dora WEINER again born in Newcastle upon Tyne in 1908 . Bernhard occupation is given as MILLWRIGHT on the birth certificate. I also checked on the 1911 census and found no trace of the family members other that Alfreid Heindrick WEINER living in Heaton with the family he knew to be his natural family.
Unfortunately still no clue as to where the family originated from ?????? :(
Thanks for everyones help
Bellababy
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Update on the locations associated with WIENER Altona Hamburg , Malchin, Dargun and Rostock Germany and other family names associated Paschen , Dahse, Genz, Rachow , Lass or Sass, Goethe, Burmeister, Richter, Pietruck, Brundel, Wolfson, Greeck, Pilorski , Zapp and Mass
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Hi
Im hoping someone can help solve a mystery - Im trying to trace where Bernhard Wilhelm Martin Emil WIENER born in 1879 in Malchin Mecklenburg ? Ended up ? Can’t find any info on him other than He married in 1905 in Newcastle upon Tyne to Marie karoline LINNAKUGAL.
Their parents are stated on their marriage cert as Rudolf Theodor Theophial WIENER deceased (furniture manufacturer) and Fritz LINNAKUGAL (farmer) they had children Beatrice Kate Weiner , Dora Weiner and a boy Alfried Heindrich born 1909 and a short time after that they ( for whatever reason ) left the uk leaving behind their child . As far as we know they never returned but the story goes that a guardian attempted to adopt the child but was unable to as parents were still alive. I have no idea what happened to the other children - Beatrice Kate and Dora - Did they all go back to Rostock / Malchin where the family came from ?
ps witnesses to marriage were L A Donnellan and Ane Nielson
Bellababy
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Newspaper report:
Shields Daily News 08 January 1909
Curious Matrimonial Case
Marie Karolina Weiner summoned her husband Bernhard Wilhelm M E Weiner yesterday at Newcastle, on a charge of desertion.
Mr Edward Clark, who represented the complainant,said the parties were both of German nationality. The circumstances were somewhat peculiar. The wife had gone to Germany, with her husband's consent, to nurse her mother who was ill, and whilst there she had been unfaithful.On her return to England however, defendant says she was still his wife, and there had been, said Mr Clarke, condonation by him,(the defendant). He had promised to set up a house for her but did not carry out the promise and the prosecution submitted there was a case for desertion.
Complainant and a witness gave evidence.
Mr S G Wilson, for the husband, submitted that condonation had not been proved and that an order ought not to be made.
The Chairman said the Bench were not satisfied and therefore must dismiss the case.
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There's a bigger write up on the case in Newcastle Evening Chronicle 07 January 1909
Some extra details: this was the third time the case had come before the courts. Bernhard profession given as engineer. They had married 30th July 1905,Brunswick Place Chapel. There was one child aged two. They had lived happily together until April 1907 when Marie had gone to Germany to look after her sick mother, she was away for eighteen months. She returned to Newcastle in October when she told Bernhard that she had been unfaithful and that she was expecting a child.
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That’s really interesting information and helpful to Bellababy, I’m sure.
I don’t think the dates quite tie up
Births Newcastle upon Tyne
Beatrice b 1906 September quarter
Dora b 1908 March quarter
Then there are these two references :-\
Alfred Heindrich Wiener June quarter 1909 mmn Lurnchugel
Alfred Heindrich Wiener March quarter 1909 mmn Macoul