RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: whim on Thursday 01 July 10 08:27 BST (UK)
-
Can anyone out there provide any information on michael saunderson who was master of the Alton poor house in Christchurch in 1881. he was married in 1874 to laura alice moss and had philip sydney saunderson c1876. michael was born in 1832 in surrey, father philip. cannot find any info after 1881 whim
-
Hi and welcome to rootschat. :)
have you checked the freebmd site to see if he died after 1881?
Is Laura in 1881 census with son Philip?
charlotte
-
hi charlotte,
thanks for welcome, very new at this but not at research. I have checked for death of Michael up to 1910. In the 1881 census Laura Saunderson was a visitor at Alton and was stated as married.in 1891 census she is still listed as a wife and is with her daughter Eva born 1881. the son Philip was by this time a boarder in London.
-
Hi again,
the next logical steps would be to check the 1891 then 1901 census to see if he is there. If he's nowwhere in 1891 then maybe it's reasonable to assume he's dead by then. Likewise for 1901.
This is merely a way of defining the time frame with in which searching for his death is needed.
just a thought but maybe you could give this a go?
charlotte
-
whim
No doubt you are aware that Michael and Laura Alice married at Stockbridge Church on 15th January 1874, she the daughter of Mr. Matthew Heath Moss, of Alton Hants, the second daughter of the above man., and he of Stockbridge. Mr Moss continually appears in the local paper as an agent for an Insurance company in Alton.
The marriage was announced in the local newspaper, so somebody had some money to do that as newspaper adverts like now weren't cheap!
Michael Saunderson is shown to be master of the Christchurch Union, when he appeared in a bastardy hearing on February 11th 1880, to prove that a James Read should maintain his wife in the union workhouse.
But, by 1890, according to an enquiry into the death of an inmate at the workhouse in Christchurch, the master is a Mr. Fay, his brother-in-law is a Mr. F. Wilton who was master of the Yeovil workhouse. Mr. and Mrs Fay received £100 per annum salary, but as a result of the death of inmate, were sacked.
Do you anything of his wife Laura Moss? There is a Miss Laura Moss who was superintendant of female labour at the Bethnal Green Workhouse in June 1866. She had held the post for six months when she alleged an assault on her by the master of the workhouse Mr. Theobald Meyrick.
On October 17, 1867 a Laura Moss wrote a letter to the West Derby board of guardians-she was then assistant matron of that workhouse.
She was in post of Bethnal Green Workhouse from December 12th, 1865 until September 26th, 1866. She was the subject of slander and libel and received a very good reference by clerk to the guardians of the Bethnal Green Workhouse. (Evening Standard December 5th, 1867)
In 1872, on May 21st, she was the matron of the Stockbridge Workhouse, when she gave evidence in a case of damage at the above workhouse as reported in the Hampshire Advertiser on May 29th.
Which brings us to her marriage to Michael Saunderson.
All info from 48 British National Newspapers from Gale databases.
I can’t find any sign of a divorce in National Archives. I can't find much about Michael Saunderson before his marriage to Laura, census etc either.
Tom
-
Hi Tom,
Thanks for your reply. Laura Alice Moss was the daughter of Matthew Heath Moss, who married Jane Giles in 1828 at Westminster. In the 1841 census he is shown as Master of the Alton Workhouse, then when Michael Saunderson married Alice he became the Master, although she was not the Matron. It appears that perhaps Michael left them as Laura is never shown as connected with the workhouse from her marriage. I have michael saunderson parents listed as Philip & Margaret. There appears to have been two Philip Saundersons. One shows up as a family of farmers at Roe Green Herts. the other a owner of the Bell Inn Surrey in the 1861 census. Matthew Heath Moss by the way produced 10 children as shown on the 1861 Hampshire census. whim
-
Thanks,
Were you aware of Laura Alice Moss's problems at Bethnal Green workhouse? She stood up for rights and protested her innocence at a court of enquiry, and suffered a great deal, losing her job. She was a woman of some pluck it would appear.
Tom
-
Hi,
I'm a bit confused by the Michael SAUNDERSON, in 1881 his age is shown as 49 and you say he was born in 1832 parent's Philip and Margaret. The only Michael like this I can find is born 20 years later.
MICHAEL SANDERSON
Birth: 30 AUG 1852
Christening: 14 SEP 1852 Thames Ditton, Surrey
Father: Philip SANDERSON
Mother: Margaret
1861 RG9/428 f.85 p.16 Guildford Holy Trinity, Surrey
Bell Passage, 'The Bell'
SAUNDERSON
Philip Head M 51 Victualler Herts Baldock
Margaret Wife M 48 " "
Matilda Daur 17 " "
Charlotte Daur 13 Cambs Gamblingay
Ellen Daur 11 Scholar Surrey Ditton
Michael Son 8 Scholar " "
Rheuben SMITH G?? U 35 Agric Lab " East Clandon
Sarah PINNOCK " M 63 N K Hants Portsmouth
1871 RG10/1127 f.148 p.4 Portsea, Hampshire
231&233 Commercial Rd
Michael SANDERSON Assistant Unm 19 Drapers Assistant Surrey Long Ditton
Living in the household of William STYLES with other Draper's assistants and apprentices.
You have the 1881 census, I just wonder if his age is recorded wrongly. Do you have his marriage cert. to Laura if so does it have an age or just the dreaded 'of full age'?
In 1891 I can't find Michael's son Philip Sydney H. as a boarder in London, but this looks like Michael with his son as Sydney and a new family,
1891 RG12/63 f.81 p.25 Chelsea, London
45 Shawfield St
Michael SAUNDERSON Head 38 Fruiterer Surrey Long Ditton
Matilda " Wife 32 Lancs Liverpool
Sydney " Son 14 Scholar Hants Christchurch
Harrold " Son 3 Australia
Hubert " Son 10m London Chelsea
May STARLIN Serv 15 General Servant Sitchan Norfolk
Eugenie BERTHOUD Lodger 45 Dressmaker Switzerland
There are these baptisms, with parents Michael and Matilda SAUNDERSON
Hubert SAUNDERSON
Date: 7 Aug 1890
Parish: Christ Church, Chelsea
Madeleine Helen Saunderson
Date: 1 May 1892
Parish: St Luke, Chelsea
Reginald Michael Saunderson
Date: 24 Jan 1894
Parish: St Luke, Chelsea
Margaret Matilda SAUNDERSON
Date: 18 Aug 1895
Parish: St Luke, Chelsea
I can't find the above family in 1901 (apart from Sydney, in 1901 age 25, b. Christchurch Hampshire he is a boarder in Islington, RG13/178 f.14 p.19) or 1911 I wonder if they emigrated.
Got to go .. tennis on :D
Regards,
Daisy
-
This shows the connection between a Philip Sydney Saunderson and Laura Alice Moss I think, a strange advert, looks like something out of a spy story.
Multiple Advertisements and Notices .
The Standard Wednesday, July 25, 1888; 19th Century British Library Newspapers: Part II.
Philip Sydney Hale SAUNDERSON write? to Postman and schoolfellows-£1 postal Orders to first who sends CORRECT ADDRESS of above to Mr. MOSS, Alresford, Hants.
I work it out that if this is Michael's son, then he would have been aged 12, but seems to be at a place that his grandfather had no knowledge. At least we now know what the H stands for in Sydney's name.
Tom
-
Hi Tom,
Philip Sydney Hale Saunderson dropped the Philip and became known as Sydney. He married under that name in London to Annette Howard, publican 's daughter James Howard, who owned the Angel Inn in Hammersmith. Sydney and his family later came here to Oz and died in 1951. He was my late husband's grandfather. I am wondering if Michael lied about his age when he was Master of Alton Poorhouse . I have found a reference to a Michael born 1853 who left for Oz. in 1886 on the Duke of Devonshire. I never take notice of 'family lore', but i have been told that a member of the family went to NZ. The plot thickens. Many thanks for the references re. Laura Saunderson. She may have had a bigger backbone than her husband.? Cheers Whim
-
Hi Daisypetal,
I am also beginning to think that Michael Saunderson lied about his age when he became master of the workhouse. I have found reference to Michael Saundersion b. 1852 who left for Oz. on the Duke of Devonshire in 1886. Tom has forwarded info on Laura re having to fight for her rights following an incident at a poorhouse.
Whim :)
-
Hi,
I did a Google search and found this page,
http://www.dsaunderson.freeserve.co.uk/index.htm
I sent him an email suggesting he looked at this thread but I received a delivery failure notice. I don't know how old his post is but maybe it would be worth putting your own message on the site in case he sees it.
If he's right that Michael changed his name to John HILL, this looks like it could be the family's migration,
Date of departure: 16 December 1897
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Cape, South Africa
Passenger destination: Cape, South Africa
Mr J HILL age: 36 Carpenter
Mrs HILL age: 35
Mstr H HILL age: 10
Mstr H HILL age: 6
Mstr R HILL age: 5
Miss M HILL age: 4
Miss M HILL age: 2
It seems they did go on to New Zealand, this looks like Ralph at the CWGC,
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=604711
Daisy
-
Hi daisy,
you are a champion. was not aware there was a saunderson web site. will definitely give it a go. There seems to be something very fishy about my Michael saunderson. whim :D :) :)
-
Hello whim and tom Piper,
Re the Michael Saunderson(John Hill) story.
I am a descendent of his and am very interested to chat about what I know and what your connections are .
Patrick Hill.
Moderator comment: email address removed in accordance with RootsChat general practice. Please use the personal message system to exchange e-mail addresses. Thank you.
-
Patrick
Leaving an E-mail on a website which is just that, visible worldwide, will mean you may get thousands of unwanted e-mails, and maybe junk too.
For my part I have no Saunderson connection at all, I just did a newspaper search for the original enquirer.
Tom
-
Ok thanks Tom for that bit of advice.I am new at this forum.
Your research ties in with a little that I have done.
I am the grandson of the Harold Saunderson(Hill) that DaisyPetal wrote about on sunday 4th july in this forum.
It has been a mystery to our family as to why there was a name change-maybe because he ran away from his wife Laura and married Matilla in South Africa.
And why to the name John Hill
I would be interested in tracing Saundersons who might be related as i obviously dont have real Hill ancestors
I have records of his will anyway in which he says he(M S) changed his name to John Hill for "business reasons"(fishy indeed) but am interested to find out more.
On what basis then,do you undertake your research on these things?
regards
Patrick
-
Hi,
I think Michael SAUNDERSON might have changed his name to HILL as it seems to be his mother's maiden name,
Marriage
Parish: St John the Baptist, Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Philip SAUNDERSON of the Parish of Weston in the County of Hertford a Bachelor
and
Margaret HILL of this Parish a spinster
Were married in this Church by licence 07 Nov 1831
Witnesses: George HICKMAN, Mary Ann HICKMAN
Possible baptism for Margaret,
Margaret HILL
Christening: 07 APR 1809 Baldock, Hertford
Father: Willm. HILL
Mother: Ann
Regards,
Daisy
-
Thanks Daisy,
All very interesting.Makes sense as one of his daughters was margaret.
regards
-
Hello again Daisypetal and Tom
Just been onto the family history again and referring to the departure details you posted for Mr J Hill and family on 16 Dec 1897.
Do you have more details, ships name, passenger lists etc or can you tell me where you sourced the information please.
It would seem from the age of Mr J Hill that he could be lying again about age as I believe he was born in Thames Ditton in 1852.
I guess that it was not an official name change- would there be record of that? and that maybe she was a common law wife because according to his will of which i have a copy from New Zealand he was married in South Africa presumably on arrival in about 1898!
His son Harold Claude, my paternal grandfather(b 1877) therefore about would have presumably done hid early schooling in London- would there be any records of that?
And then ,the mystery to me is Michael's wife Matilda (nee Townsend) who according to census was born in Liverpool presumably about 1859, but who according to her will was from Cambridge and went by name of Matilla Hill.
Family rumour has it that she eloped with Michael but have no evidence of that.
I would like to find out more about this woman.
thanks
Patrick
-
Hello Whim - I read with interest your post about Philip Sydney Hale Saunderson and Annette Howard, my great grandparents. Their eldest son, Ronald Sydney Howard Saunderson was my maternal grandfather. I believe that I have a photo of Nettie ( Annette ) at my parent`s wedding in Sydney in 1952 if you are curious. From you post, I guess the name Andre Saunderson has some significance ? Kind Regards, owling9