RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: MarkyP on Tuesday 13 July 10 22:33 BST (UK)
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Can't see this mentioned anywhere else, but next Monday (the 19th) the new series of WDYTYA starts with Bruce Forsyth. BBC1 9.00pm. :)
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Thanks for reminding me
Elizabeth
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oh dear..... not my favourite person............ but then it takes all sorts.
xin
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I think this is possibly going to be the most annoying WDYTYA we have ever seen. Having said that it might turn out to be really informative.
We'll see ;)
Carol
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Half the fun of watching the series is following the thread on Rootchat and hearing what everyone has to say about it.
can't wait ;D ;D ;D
regards panda
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Aww! Brucie's a national treasure! Looking forward to seeing where he came from.
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I agree with Xin and Carol. Can't stand the man, he thinks he's God's gift to - I don't know what. I'll start watching but I'm sure his reactions will drive me mad. It may be the first WDYTYA prog that I turn off.
Lizzie
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How many times will he say 'good game, good game' LOL
Mind you I'm only jealous, I just hope I look that good when I'm 103!!!!!!
Kerry
BTW are Rupert Penry Jones and Dervla Kerwin married or something? They are doing a joint episode apparently
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BTW are Rupert Penry Jones and Dervla Kerwin married or something? They are doing a joint episode apparently
Yes. She knows she is a great grand daughter of Margaret Collins-O'Driscoll who was a sister of General Michael Collins, the Irish leader during the War of Independence, so no doubt there'll be a lot of Irish history involved.
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I wonder how many times he'll tell someone it's nice to see them, to see them nice...
It can't be much worse than the American ones which have been on recently though in my opinion. Even Brucie won't spend the whole programme saying "oh my gooood" (with varying quantities of o's).
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My worry with Bruce is that he'll be telling them all about his family,rather than the other way round.
Anyone watching him tonight? ;D
Dervla is so obviously Irish,so one would expect her family history to be all Irish LOL
Carol
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Now I quite like Dervla... so variety --- cannot watch tonight, but they are tempting me by saying he does shoe/w (whoops freudian slip of the finger there?!?!?) his true character... so may tape it for later.
Who would you really like to see on WDYTYA.....?
and who would you hate to see?
My likes.... uhm .... uhm .... uhm... oh dear.... cant think... USA Neil Diamond oooo hhhh yes...
UK nobody jumps out at me...
but lots of oh no's tooo many to mention.
No Politicians, No self styled narcissicstititcs (cant spell it) celebs - i better go... before I get carted off.
xin
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I know Forsyth has many supporters/admirers as he detractors. You can count me among the latter; quite honestly I can not stand this living wax work!! Obviously this will be the first WDYTYA I will miss.
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He is OK and you can't deny that he has done well to still be in the entertainment business after all these years but for someone to not watch the show because they don't like him is plain daft, this is going to be about his family, not him.
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Will there be a cuddley toy amongst his ancestors ??
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this is going to be about his family, not him.
I wouldn't bet on it, he takes over all the shows he is on. Did you see him on Have I Got News for You recently? It should have been renamed Have I Got Bruce Forsyth.
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I, too, am in the non-fan club. But I shall grit my teeth and watch it - the trailer looked quite good, and the interviewer actually got a few words in edgeways... ::)
meles
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Will there be a cuddley toy amongst his ancestors ??
:D
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I wouldn't bet on it, he takes over all the shows he is on. Did you see him on Have I Got News for You recently? It should have been renamed Have I Got Bruce Forsyth.
But that is a different type of show and humour it what it is about. I have just read an article over on Digital Spy and without giving the game away apparently what he found did upset him a bit so those that are giving this a wide berth could miss out.
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I don't count myself among his fans - but please don't dismiss the programme out of hand - many of the most fascinating episodes have been those concerning people many of us thought we couldn't be bothered with.
Jennifer
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If you usually Sky+ it, and you think it will record simply because you sky+ and series linked the American version the other day, check it! I've just checked mine and it was a good job I did, or it wouldn't have recorded. :o
Ann
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My wife watched a programme called "Living with Brucie" on Channel 4 last night. Although I was using the computer at the time I could not miss hearing him being overbearing, getting his own way and in one incident having quite a hissy fit with one of the locals near his house in Porto Rica. He came over as not a particularly likeable man.
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I think I am actually looking forward to it. I tolerated Jeremy Clarkson's repulsive humor to hear his stories, I don't see why old irritating Brucie should be an exception.
I certainly plan to watch it.
Paul
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I shan't be able to watch it as I shall be on a caravan site, which I am fairly sure has no wi-fi. I can't stand the man and what I dread most is him tracing his Forsyth line back to Duffus in Morayshire, where mine came from. I really don't want him as a relation, no matter how far removed! :o :o
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fingers crossed then Genjen.. ;)
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I can't stand Graham Norton, but the episode in which he featured turned out, I thought, to be very interesting ;D
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I am trying to remember my favourite episode.... I think it may have been .... Blimey... name gone..the English actor that walked around with his dogs at his feet ... help
'the older you get the easier it is to forget' I know I will remember once posted.... forgive me...
aaaaaaaaaaaaah sweet bliss of remembrance....... Jeremy Irons. yes that was it...
xin
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Xin I was just reading down your letter there and you hit it on the nail at the end
I enjoyed Barbara Windsor
and also Jeromy Irons
I can take Bruce in small dose's i thought he was a bit arragent at times last night and showing off and the poor little wifie who makes is porridge in the morning if he had spoke to me like that I know where i would have told him to put it
mind you he has two lovely homes hasn't he
Elizabeth
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Anyone know what the full list for this new series is?
And I hope that we will get to see the full series of the U.S. ones, a new perspective is always interesting.
Secretly, I am looking forward to some celeb making a spectacle of themselves hissy-fitting about their family history not being what it ought to have been - remember the John Hurt episode?
Dave
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I think we are missing the point slightly. Genealogy is not about trying to find the amazing ancestor, if we do find something interesting then all well and good. And let's face it, if we are truly honest then genealogy can be egotistical :o . And those in show business are even more so!!!!
I think the journey of discovery is more important and if more people decide to take up the hobby which I'm now totally addicted to, as I've no doubt everyone on Rootschat is as well, then I don't knock other people's efforts in trying to find out their family history however annoying the person maybe........there is the on/off button on their tv's if they don't want to watch it ;D
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From wikipedia, the new series covers
Bruce Forsyth, Rupert Everett, Monty Don, Jason Donovan, Hugh Quarshie, Rupert Penry-Jones, Dervla Kirwan, Alan Cumming and Alexander Armstrong.
Linda
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•Alan Cumming (Take The High Road, X-Men 2) ok
•Alexander Armstrong (The Armstrong and Miller Show, Have I Got News For You)
•Dervla Kirwan (Ballykinsangel, The Silence)
•Hugh Quarshie (Holby City)
•Jason Donovan (Neighbours, several West End musicals)
•Monty Don (Gardeners' World, Mastercrafts)
•Rupert Everett (The Madness of King George, My Best Friend's Wedding)
•Rupert Penry-Jones
heres the new list
xin
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Looking forward to the new series
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How exciting - a new series. ;D Although I'm in Australia I hope to be able to view this by other means. ;)
I can't stand Bruce Forsyth either but some of the best WDYTYAs are about people I don't know or don't like.
I am not particularly interested in the other celebs on the list (the ones I've heard of that is :)) but I do wonder why they are doing Jason Donovan as he's an Australian. Isn't Donovan an Irish name? I expect they'll just concentrate on his UK roots. (OK, I just sussed it ... his father Terence, also an actor, was born in England).
I didn't like Jeremy Irons - I thought he was a bit of an old misery guts and another one who was desperate for Irish ancestors. I liked his dogs though.
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I think we are missing the point slightly. Genealogy is not about trying to find the amazing ancestor, if we do find something interesting then all well and good.
I agree with jubee. And I felt the first one or two series concentrated on more or less British social history and the methods and resources of research. it was seeing how ordinary people lived and worked which was the most interesting part for me. I could relate that to how my forebears had lived. The earlier programmes researched several lines of a family; as we know, we do all have 4 grandparents & 8 great grandparents, not only the one who made history. The programme lost its way a bit when the single 'amazing ancestor' hunt took over as well as much of some programmes being researched abroad.
Josey
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I think we'll have to wait and see.
I cannot stand Chris Moyles, but found his episode one of the most moving yet to be televised.
As for Brucie, it should be nice to see it, to see it...........
;D
Reayboy.
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He is OK and you can't deny that he has done well to still be in the entertainment business after all these years but for someone to not watch the show because they don't like him is plain daft, this is going to be about his family, not him.
I couldn't agree more. Of course Bruce has some annoying habits, but don't we all when we reach 80 (if we are lucky enough to make it !) ? I'm a mere youngster of 62, and I can remember watching Bruce on TV at the London Palladium on Sunday nights when I was 8 years old. 54 years on, and he knocks spots off me with his physical fitness. How many 80+ year olds do you know that could work a 16 hour day ?
Anyway, what endears Bruce to many these days is the British royal family's and government's continual refusal to give Bruce the recognition he deserves in the form of a knighthood ? Especially when they can hand out honours to bully boys like John Prescott. Bruce and his wife have done a lot for charity, but they don't shout about it.
My wife watched a programme called "Living with Brucie" on Channel 4 last night. Although I was using the computer at the time I could not miss hearing him being overbearing, getting his own way and in one incident having quite a hissy fit with one of the locals near his house in Porto Rica. He came over as not a particularly likeable man.
I saw that too. The hissy fit wasn't with one of the locals - it was with one of the security guards that he and the other residents pay to guard the estate. This particular guard had driven his 4x4 directly across the path of Bruce's golf buggy, causing him to swerve. He was completely justified in his stance. The people in that complex probably shell out a lot of money every year to pay these people.
Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing Bruce's ancestry. As far as I'm concerned, it's not a requirement to like the person on the show to be able to enjoy it, and I think we ought to stop this childish character assasination of the forthcoming subjects on the show.
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Alan Cumming (Take The High Road, X-Men 2)
Can't wait to see his. Loved the High Life! Hope they focus on his Scottish lines. ;D
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i didn't realise there was a new series starting monday unitl last night who else is up?
apologies should have read the whole thread not just the first page :-[
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Its not a fact of character assasination........ it is just opinions and it doesnt hurt sometimes to speak as you feel... I am sure Bruce wouldnt.
I am looking forward to all of the new shows, even tho there are one or two I either dont know or dont particularly like.
xin
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Well I will watch. Its interesting to see what is found about the ancestors and roots of these celebrities (regardless of whether I like them or not). I watch in the hope that they may find a source that I didn't know about before that could have the potential to knock down some brickwalls for me.
What I would really, really like is a series breaking down the brickwalls for amateur genealogists. No chance of that though.
Regards
Kathb
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•Hugh Quarshie (Holby City)
Oh! Hugh Quarshie! Be still my fluttering heart! :D I shall have to record that one as I won't take much in first time round! That man has the sexiest voice on earth.
Jill
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Surely the interest in genealogy that these shows have created would suggest that making a program to help amateurs would be a good idea. I am looking forward to the Dervla Kerwin program, not because I particularly like her but it may help with the difficulties we have researching Irish ancestors. Anything that may shed some light on how I find more information (apart from the great help I've found on this site) is a good thing.
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This particular guard had driven his 4x4 directly across the path of Bruce's golf buggy, causing him to swerve.
The security guard did end up apologising to Bruce and his wife for the drastic action he took in trying to stop their golf cart.
When the Generation Game was on televsion - Bruce was the hottest thing on television - it's sad to hear all this constant critism of him now. 83 years old and in good health with a beautiful wife half his age. I guess he can live all the carping and jibes.
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My only gripe about next Monday is that at 9pm there are 3 prorammes on at the same time that I really want to watch:
WDYTYA BBC1 - Identity ITV1 - And an excellent channel 4 prog re war graves from WW1
and would you believe it not one of them is repeated at all during the week, unlike many others. Oh & the channel 4 one is 1 1/2 hrs long and thus cannot be recorded as it clashes with 2 others I am "sky+ing" at 10pm.
OOOH I could scream ;D
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Whether people like him or not I think it'll be interesting to see an episode with someone so old- I don't think anyone older has been featured?
He should have a lot of memories from a long time ago before they even start researching!
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My only gripe about next Monday is that at 9pm there are 3 prorammes on at the same time that I really want to watch:
WDYTYA BBC1 - Identity ITV1 - And an excellent channel 4 prog re war graves from WW1
and would you believe it not one of them is repeated at all during the week, unlike many others. Oh & the channel 4 one is 1 1/2 hrs long and thus cannot be recorded as it clashes with 2 others I am "sky+ing" at 10pm.
OOOH I could scream ;D
you could Sky + (other systems are availble) the ch 4 program on Ch4 +1 (hr)
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BBC iPlayer and 4oD (Channel 4 On Demand) are available.
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I think it should be a very interesting program. This one is at least about someone who has had a long life and colourfull life.I just hope he does'nt take over the whole show like he always does.
Tomscot :D
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Just set the box to record the whole series.
Look away if you don't want a spoiler..............
Bruce goes to America to find our if the rumour that his grandfather was married to 2 women at the same time was true!
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Thank you danuslave and xinia for the series list.
Dave
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Darn the TABLOIDS or particularly the DM.........they have told Bruces' story this morning... and I had difficulty in not reading it..
Another prog. spoilt.. DO NOT READ THE DAILY MAIL TODAY
xin
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i saw the article in the tv mag that comes with a tabloid although it only tells a small bit there is a photo f Bruce great great grandfather (or maybe just great) anyway the likeness is uncanny
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Toni
I did say in my thread that I cannot "c 4 + 1 hr" as I am already recording 2 programmes at 9pn & 10pm and the channel 4 lasts for 1 1/2 hours and no matter whether I start from 8pm or 9pm it overlaps others programmes I want to "tape"
As I only have Sky+ and no other recording facilities I am stuck.
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On Demand TV or online BBC I player or something will suit surely..
But the Beeb are repeating over generously lately so dont worry it will be on again and again and again and then on Blighty
xin
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Toni
I did say in my thread that I cannot "c 4 + 1 hr" as I am already recording 2 programmes at 9pn & 10pm and the channel 4 lasts for 1 1/2 hours and no matter whether I start from 8pm or 9pm it overlaps others programmes I want to "tape"
As I only have Sky+ and no other recording facilities I am stuck.
i misunderstood i thought you wanted to sky + 3 programmes that each started at 9 on BBC1 CH4 and ITV, therefore you could watch the BBC program and record the ITV program and record the CH4 program on CH4+1 at 10pm.
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Due to his age, I will be very interested to see if any living relatives of his know more than he does about his past?
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He's 82(born the week after my mum ;D) I doubt his parents are still alive...or many others of that era !
Perhaps some (less annoying) cousins are still around.
Carol
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That's what i am thinking Carol...
Or maybe a magic box will appear from somewhere in an archive with all the answers... ;D
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Plummiegirl
Broadcasts
Mon 19 Jul 201021:00BBC One (except Channel Islands).Mon 19 Jul 201021:00BBC HD.Sun 25 Jul 201017:45BBC HD
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Joseph Forsyth Johnson has a page on that wicked encyclopedia!
i was looking for an image of him like the One I saw at the weekend to show the likeness betwixt Bruce and Joseph
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If you didn't watch this because you don't like Bruce Forsyth, you've missed a treat. :D
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I don't like the man, but the programme was really good and touching. I might review my views of BF.
meles
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Thoroughly enjoyed it. Wouldn't have known about it but for RC :D
Very moving at the end when he finds there is no headstone and decides to commission one
Teaurn :)
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If you didn't watch this because you don't like Bruce Forsyth, you've missed a treat. :D
I couldn't agree more. This episode along with Kim Cattrall's I think are the best that have been shown. It really was heartbreaking stuff and it was a nice touch that Bruce himself was going to pay for the headstone.
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Excellent , I found it more interesting than some others, as Bruce was following one particular family mystery.
Spring
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I haven't checked back on the thread ... but did no-one check where the man was in 1901, in UK ??
Very good programme ... I like Brucie now !
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Great episode. One of the best ones I`ve seen.
Hope the rest of the series is as good.
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I just saw it. I have always like Brucie. Good to see a more serious side to him. As the narrator said at the beginning he was playing a completely different generation game.
His ancestor JF Johnson was a right, well...horrible man shall I say. Leaving his first wife and then later his bit on the side while swanning back and forth from America to England.
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He didn't say "Nice to see you, to see you nice" ;D
This, for me, was one of the best ones ever. How similar our families were. My Grt. Grandfather abandoned three families and was a bigamist.
What a sad ending to Bruce's ancestor. So pleased that he is having a grave stone put there.
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I just managed to see the last half hour but will try to pick it up later in the week
Bruce we know the feeling when we go to a grave and there is no head stone
If I was ever to win the lottery most of it would go on headstones for those poor relatives who could not afford one for their loved ones
I enjoyed what I did see
Elizabeth
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:) Brilliant episode of WDYTYA 8. Thank goodness we see the return of normal programmes.Did not like the contrived US versions.Bruce's story was amazing.
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I enjoyed the programme and think a lot more of Brucie now - he seemed really genuine. The end was really moving.
Maggie
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It makes you wonder how much trust we place in the primary source evidence. Bruce's family were side-tracked by conflicting evidence.
I'm starting to wonder about all those censuses which have "widow" on them Can I trust what they say? :o
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A great start to the new series, but what a sad ending.
As mentioned, we all know what it is like to find an unmarked grave.
Lynne
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My ancestor sailed for America in August 1886 8 months after his wife died with his youngest daughter. All his other ones were grown up and married. He went to Pennsylvania and is on the 1900 census there. He died about the same time as Brucie's ancestor.
When Brucie went to visit JF's grave in Brooklyn makes me so want to visit my ancestors grave in Pennsylvania.
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Perhaps they could do a "revisited" on Bruce's family and go back a few more generations. ;)
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I agree with all the above, that was the best I've seen in a long time. Really enjoyed the in depth programme into one life, showing all the aspects of researching one person instead of rushing through generations.
Very sad and touching end and I thought Bruce came across as a really genuine and friendly man. Hope the rest of the series is as good!
Kerry
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Absolutely gripping from beginning to end.
Thanks to the BBC and Brucie for a great episode of WDYTYA.
Here's hoping the remaining programmes are just as good. Hard act to follow though. ;)
Judy
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Mmmmmm.......looks like Find-a-Grave would have been helpful to the researchers:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=38916259
and wiki....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Forsyth_Johnson
Wonder how much the family really didn't know?
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Fascinating stuff! Excellent episode I really enjoyed it. It was also nice to see them failing to find stuff! ;D
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Mmmmmm.......looks like Find-a-Grave would have been helpful to the researchers:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=38916259
I think much of this has been done off the back of the programme. Wikipedia seems to have been updated at around the same time.
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Does it not seem as though history has repeated itself?
Similarities between Jacob and Bruce.
What did anyone else think?
marcie
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I don't think the findagrave website had been updated since the programme.
If you follow the link for Charles Forsyth Johnson it shows the headstone in Plaistow cemetery with Joseph's correct date of death or 17 Jul 1906. That picture was placed there on 2 Aug 2009.
Josey
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Hi Windsor
How are things up your way just now
glad you too have enjoyed the programme
I wonder if anyone on the wdytya could find our Isabella,s grave and has she got a head stone and what about her Mum and dad have they
Hope all are well
Aspin
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I haven't checked back on the thread ... but did no-one check where the man was in 1901, in UK ??
Very good programme ... I like Brucie now !
No Lydart, they didn't.
But excellent programme & very moving.
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He was buried the day after he died apparently.
My ancestor looks like he is buried in Robinson run Cemetery in Allegheny, PA with his eldest daughter as another member has found the deeds to the plot with 8 graves and all are filled but no mention in them of who is buried but I believe my ancestor is one of them.
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Similarities between Jacob and Bruce.
What did anyone else think?
I presume you mean Joseph?
I can't see many similarities.
Joseph was bigamist and Bruce is a trigamist.
Joseph seemed to abandon his families, whereas Bruce has made a financial provision for the familes from his previous relationships.
Joseph died aged 67 in relative povety, whereas Bruce is 82 and very wealthy and he probably drawn up a will.
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I think I'm going to be a lone voice here! :) I actually found the programme a tad tedious, only really picking up pace and interest about 40 minutes in. I didn't have a problem with Bruce, I thought he was quite genuine, and I'm used to a lot of the pseudo-genealogy that occasionally passes for true process in the series. I just thought it was a bit slow, and a tad unremarkable. The only highlights for me were when he met the cousins in the US, and the final scene at the graveside, a situation I'm sure we've all faced when looking for rellies in cemeteries.
I think WDYTYA works for me when it touches on issues of identity, so progs like Bill Oddie, Kim Cattrall etc, when there is a definite impact that can be gauged from the celeb about the findings revealed. Shows like Ian Hyslop, where standing on a rainlashed Scottish island, he pretty much confirmed his own feelings that the family had moved on, and he was an Englishman only too happy to live in the big city etc! But I didn't really get that tonight, and just felt that Bruce got top billing because he was 'BBC aristocracy'. There was no sense of why Joseph's story was so important to Bruce, except that he had received a letter.
Not a disaster of a programme by any means at all - just a bit 'meh' for me compared to some others in previous series. I suspect there are better stories awaiting us further down the run.
A minor gripe though was the title sequence style has changed - felt a bit more like the US series titles with the big celeb facial close ups.
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I think I'm going to be a lone voice here!
Not quite :D
All a bit dull really. Unfortunately, men abandoning one or more families isn't especially uncommon (even now).
As for not having a headstone - when you come from a long line of Ag labs and miners like me, that is quite normal.
There was a distinct feeling that it's heading the same way as the US version - not A Good Thing at all!
I prefer previous programmes that have followed more than one line
On the plus side, Bruce came over very much better than I expected. I'm not his biggest fan (in fact I never watch him 'performing') but he did seem genuine in this.
Hope the rest of the series is more interesting.
Linda
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It was a good show, I thought a Bruce was really interested.
I know they held back his death in new york, which I am sure they could've mentioned before, but they're making a show
Bob
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Mmmmmm.......looks like Find-a-Grave would have been helpful to the researchers:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=38916259
and wiki....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Forsyth_Johnson
Wonder how much the family really didn't know?
I can't believe that Bruce would not know that "his great-great-great-great grandfather William Forsyth (1737–1804) was a founder of the Royal Horticultural Society and the namesake of the plant genus Forsythia" (Wiki), and not want to talk about it.
I enjoyed the programme, but I think they concentrated on his grandfather for far too long.
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I too enjoyed the programme- Bruce came across as genuinely interested and didn't make it too much me me me as I thought he would :D
Sadly I think that is the way these programmes are going Nick- all about one person(a la USA version) rather than taking into account both sides of where a person came from, as they did in the early series.
Carol
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Well, I enjoyed the programme. Bruce seemed really interested, and it was very touching when we heard that he was going to provide a headstone.
I agree with Lydart and wondered why they did not look for Joseph in the 1901 census.
They might have discovered a third 'marriage' !
Kooky
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was a good show next week its rupert everett in fact this series looks like it could be a good one looking forward to watching ...
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This 2006 article, by Nick Barrett, indicates that little of last night's information was new to Bruce, although it is possible that some of the programme (or perhaps the research) was done some time ago
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1435131/Family-detective-Bruce-Forsyth.html
But it was an interesting programme
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I enjoyed it - but then, I like old Brucie anyway. He's akin to the likes of June (why isn't she a Dame yet ???) Whitfield, Roy Hudd and Barry Cryer. We grew up with people like them entertaining us, and now they're just like the dotty old relative we all have, who cracks the same old lame jokes year in year out, and has you all singing old songs at family gatherings and talking about the old times. And I can't help having a soft spot for him.
And, I know this sounds awful, but I was kind of glad old Joseph ended up alone and virtually penniless having left two women and a bunch of children the same way for much of his life. But I'm glad Bruce is giving him a headstone - I hope one day to do the same for the many in my family whose time on this earth has gone unmarked and virtually unnoticed.
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I'm not a Brucie fan, but this was an extremely good episode. I did wonder a bit about the order the research was done in, seemed a bit inconsistent to me, but hey it's for TV. One of the final shots of a pensive Bruce in the cemetery was very poignant.
It makes you wonder how much trust we place in the primary source evidence. Bruce's family were side-tracked by conflicting evidence.
I'm starting to wonder about all those censuses which have "widow" on them Can I trust what they say? :o
A relative of mine found his way somehow from London to South Wales and met his partner. They moved to Ashton under Lyme and had their first child. They lied about his age, changed their name for one census, moved again to register the birth and gave a false mother's name on his birth certificate. Second child was born in Kidderminster. Later censuses gave conflicting names. Later discovered the woman was married and traced her husband on the census where he described himself as a widower. In the meantime , my pair serttled down in London and lived "happily ever after". This research, by the way, would never have been completed without the help Rottschatters! The moral of the story, though, is that Widow or Widower might hide separations or family break-ups in the days when divorce was not an option for the ordinary working people, so always check the preceding decade for a death certificate before making any assumptions :D
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Agree Ann :) :)
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I agree about the term 'wid' not to be trusted.
In 1871, my gt grandfather was living as 'wid' with a string of his children, while his 'wife' was living with another man and new baby, assuming his name. She then married him in 1873, but my gt grandfather didn't die until 1875!!! I cannot say that she was a bigomist, as I have never managed to find a marriage for her to my gt grandfather, but they did have 11 children between them, before she 'moved on' and had 4 more!!!
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I enjoyed the programme, but I think they concentrated on his grandfather for far too long.
I agree with Nick!!! ;D
Concentrating on just one ancestor is dangerous programme making. The Bruce Forsyth programme worked - partly because there was a lot to say about his great grandfather, partly because he was far enough back in time for Bruce and the American branch not to be too upset or outraged and partly because Bruce turned out to be a very charming man.
However, one other occasion springs to mind when they concentrated on one ancestor - and that was the Kim Cattrall episode, which I thought was absolute drivel. It was nothing more than a witch hunt about a man no longer able to give his side of the story, but sufficiently recent for outraged daughters to be given a platform to air their grievances.
I really hope this is not a sign of things to come.
Jill
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One of my ancestors and his second wife were both "widowed" in 1901.
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If any of you helped on my recent Sc Hunt you would have heard about George Isaac Culmer who although married and had a child in England did a flit to America presumably with some inheritance money and took with him a young girl also pregnant with his child so some similarities there. He stayed with the girl in America and had several more children when she died he married again and had more children.
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I was pleasantly surprised with the very restrained Brucie, but like many others I found it disappointing that the programme concentrated on just one line. There was not even any need for the family tree diagram to be shown more than once or twice.
The saddest moment for me was when Bruce arrived at the unmarked grave with a large bouquet of flowers and just didn't know what to do with them.
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No I wasn't too happy with the prog. just 'one line' followed and no actual in depth search into his family.
Just one man that proves success isnt all about status and money, the tale of so many 'letharios'...Why could we not have heard about the abandoned wife and her struggle for survival, and why where we shown only one pic of his 2nd partner that was not an attractive portrait... Ok I dont particularly like Bruce Forsyth mainly because he comes over to me as liking himself too much.. He did show another side to him in this and yet it still focused on the image of 'a man' who only cared about what he wanted from life.. HOW can ANY man or woman be considered as worthy of 'note' when they abandon NINE children.......... I became angry that this man was so totally self interested and never seemingly considered his children -- yet he created them. OK so he was a good gardener -- I dont think he was a good man in any way. ABANDONMENT is the worst sin in my eyes.
So I am glad that Bruce has made something of his life - from such a dodgy background -- I feel we should have heard about Bruces Fathers struggles more and he must have struggled, I think that more was known to the previous generation and hidden or kept to themselves.
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If any of you helped on my recent Sc Hunt you would have heard about George Isaac Culmer who although married and had a child in England did a flit to America presumably with some inheritance money and took with him a young girl also pregnant with his child so some similarities there. He stayed with the girl in America and had several more children when she died he married again and had more children.
Toni That crossed my mind as I was watching last night. Mind you GIC did stay in New York.
It makes you wonder how many more immigrants did the same thing.
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I think they might have mentioned in passing that the Forsyth bit comes from William Forsyth one of the founders of the RHS and the man who gave his name to that ubiquitous shrub forsythia. The Forsyth family actually have a very well known and documented horticultural history.
I'm looking forwards to the Alexander Armstrong episode - it's VERY brave of him to do it for real after making that very funny spoof of WDYTYA on The Armstrong and Miller Show.
Carole
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I thought I'd read somewhere that Bruce had thought it was his great grandfather who had forsythia named after him but that turned out to be untrue.
Sorry - can't remember where I read it.
Jill
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I've just tried looking for Joseph F Johnson in the 1901 ... there's ten of them... plus lots of Joseph Johnson without the F !
Trouble is, I can't rememebr names of any of the rest of the family he might have been with on census night in 1901 to narrow it down ... I was watching at a friends house and we were chatting at the same time !
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Wasn't he supposed to be dead (died at sea) by then - hence the reason no one bothered to search for him on the 1901 census.
Wasn't he in America in 1901?
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I thought they found a record of him sailing BACK to the US in 1903 ... thus he was here (probably) in 1901 ?? Thats how I understood it anyway ... but as I said ... my friend was chatting !
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He did travel back to New York in 1903.
I suppose if there were ten Joseph Johnsons it would have been difficult to work out which is the right one unless one said gardener ;D ;D so they didn't mention it
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I've just tried looking for Joseph F Johnson in the 1901 ... there's ten of them... plus lots of Joseph Johnson without the F !
11 exact matches
but they are all with wives or as son of
we know his daughter Christina didnt know anything about his double life from her diary
he returned to the UK in 1895 for 1 month and again in 1899 and went back to the US in 1903 so in theory he should be on the 1901 census.
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If he didn't want to be found in 1901- maybe he fibbed ;D
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I thought I'd read somewhere that Bruce had thought it was his great grandfather who had forsythia named after him but that turned out to be untrue.
Sorry - can't remember where I read it.
Jill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Forsyth_(botanist)
It was William Forsyth that has the Forsythia named after them - back one more generation.
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I understand the criticism of only following one line, but I thought the entire point of the episode for Bruce Forsyth was to either prove or disprove a family story - that Joseph Johnson was a bigamist?
Admittedly I missed the first 15 minutes so don't actually know where this 'letter' came from.
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Well, my claim to fame is that my 2xgreat grandfather, Henry Mason, was living a few doors away from Joseph F Johnson in Gilling in 1861. His next door neighbour, William Warters, is probably distantly related to me as well! Yes, I know Gilling was a small place, but you have to grasp at these things!!
Jenny
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I understand the criticism of only following one line, but I thought the entire point of the episode for Bruce Forsyth was to either prove or disprove a family story - that Joseph Johnson was a bigamist?
Admittedly I missed the first 15 minutes so don't actually know where this 'letter' came from.
The letter was allegedly sent to Bruce, and he mentioned it in the opening minutes of the show. If you're in the UK, and want to watch again, you can see the show on BBC iPlayer.
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The letter was allegedly sent to Bruce, and he mentioned it in the opening minutes of the show.
It was a shame the author of the letter was not interviewed to find out her sources of informarion & evidence and to find out her point of view.
Josey
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Was she not one of the american lot that Bruce visited?
Didn't she say it was just what information had been passed down?
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Concentrating on just one ancestor is dangerous programme making. The Bruce Forsyth programme worked - partly because there was a lot to say about his great grandfather, partly because he was far enough back in time for Bruce and the American branch not to be too upset or outraged and partly because Bruce turned out to be a very charming man.
However, one other occasion springs to mind when they concentrated on one ancestor - and that was the Kim Cattrall episode, which I thought was absolute drivel. It was nothing more than a witch hunt about a man no longer able to give his side of the story, but sufficiently recent for outraged daughters to be given a platform to air their grievances.
I really hope this is not a sign of things to come.
Jill
I do agree Jill that the Kim Cattrall episode was a witch hunt and just about the worst episode I'd seen. Last night, however, for me was interesting because it showed how you can map someone's life from a whole load of sources rather than just BMD and Census, which is what often comes across from these programmes. It tracked how other sources can fill in the gaps which to a seasoned (LOL) family historian like me is so much more fun and paint a bit more of a picture than simply a name with some dates by it.
I'm looking forward to rupert penry jones because I think he is gorgeous, I don't care about the content of the programme in the least so long as I can ogle him for an hour ;D ;D ;D ;)
Kerry
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I'm looking forward to rupert penry jones because I think he is gorgeous, I don't care about the content of the programme in the least so long as I can ogle him for an hour ;D ;D ;D ;)
Kerry
Now now Kerry that's not the point of WDYTYA- but my hubby is looking forward to the Dervla Kirwan one for the same reason ;D ;D ;D :o
Carol
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I'm looking forward to rupert penry jones because I think he is gorgeous, I don't care about the content of the programme in the least so long as I can ogle him for an hour ;D ;D ;D ;)
Kerry
Now now Kerry that's not the point of WDYTYA- but my hubby is looking forward to the Dervla Kirwan one for the same reason ;D ;D ;D :o
Carol
And I'm looking forward to the Hugh Quarshie episode just to listen to his wonderful voice!
Aren't we shallow!!! ;D
Jill
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He sailed for America in 1885, returned for a short while in late 1894, set sail again in early 1895 then returned to England in 1899 but went back out to America in 1903 this time for keeps until he died 3 years later.
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I thought that Richard Madely and Konnie Huq were going to be on this series. No mention of them on the opening sequence.
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I think people drop out at the last moment - I seem to vaguely recall that Patsy Kensit nearly pulled out, but was persuaded to continue.
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Perhaps their ancestors were just as boring as poor old Michael Parkinson's turned out to be ;)
Carole
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I found this on Wikipedia:
Future episodes
Episodes have been filmed featuring Konnie Huq[6] and David Schwimmer,[7] but it is not known whether these episodes will be aired. Richard Madeley told Chris Tarrant on Radio 2 that he was to film an episode in 2010.
[edit] Abandoned episodes
The show's producers generally examine 12 celebrities in their planning for a series. After research this is then cut down to 6 by eliminating those whose background is either uninteresting or too close to themes which have already been discussed in past episodes. Michael Parkinson has said that a planned episode about his ancestors was discontinued after six weeks when genealogists failed to find anything interesting.[8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Do_You_Think_You_Are%3F_(British_TV_series)
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With regard to Richard Madeley & Konnie Huq - it is possible that their programmes were made and have been shelved for the moment.
Kevin Whatley's was not shown for 2 series.
I think they have a "stock" of a few episodes in reserve in case they have problems in any future series.
The problem is that we all know who we would love to see, and the makers probably do contact these "popular" celebs. but not all of them want to take part in the programme, time, work commitments and in some instances a lack of interest (Yes I know its odd!!!).
Looking forward to Dervla's to find out about her uncle Michael Collins.
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This is my First Posting! All I would like to say is that the series is entertaining, and that is also can be said of Bruce.
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Welcome to RootsChat Salesian.
Have a look at the Beginners section, and the How to Use RootsChat section ... then think of a question, pick an applicable county to post it on ... and away you go !
Good luck !
(It might help people to help you more if at the very least you amend your profile and put where you live ... it doesn't, and mustn't be too specific ... but it stops people telling you to go to a record office, for e.g., in London, if you live in NZ !)
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This is my First Posting! All I would like to say is that the series is entertaining, and that is also can be said of Bruce.
Nice to see you - to see you nice.
Sorry, I couldn't resist it. :)
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::)
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Double ::) ::) Downside
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I know this is a bit late and Bruce F is not my favourite person BUT as I will soon be visiting New York & Newark (NJ) I was particularly interested in his programme. I'm in Bromley, Kent UK :)
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looking forward to it love that programme ;)
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I read somewhere a link on how to get in touch with WDYTUA if you know of someone that would make a good episode but I just cannot find it. Did anyone else see it and if so could you let me know of the link. Thank you Lookin2
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I've been waiting for the Brucie programme for some time and this week it finally arrived in Hungary on cable. Recapping, his ancestor Joseph Forsyth Johnson was a married man, with a wife and partner and between them they had 9 children. The real gem of seeing it several months after the initial broadcast however, comes from a comment left on another site. suggesting the slant of the programme portraying Brucie's GG grandfather sympathetically was inapropriate.
It transpires that another family historian had unearthed evidence showing that Brucie's ancestor had another daliance (1880-1884) with a Julia Kate Pearce and also abandoned her with two children. (Forsyth Oscar W Johnson 1881 and George Harry Ernest Forsyth Johnson born 1882.) Both children can be found on FreeBMD and reappear on the 1891 census together with their mother who by then suggests she too has been widowed. The historian obtained George's birth cert which names Joseph Forsythe Johnson (landscape Gardner) as the father, and the use of the Forsyth name strongly suggests that J F J also fathered her other child born a year earlier.
A finding like this showing that Brucie's ancestor may have turned his back on not two, but three women and at least 11 children, suggests he was not a misunderstood romantic with a failed marriage, but a lying, compulsive, womanisor. If that were the case, it may well be worth looking closer at how he spent the the final years of his life when his wife and 2 partners all declared him dead, for he may actually have been back to his old ways once again.
Roy G
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Nice to see him to see him its nice !
if i play my cards right i will have missed it.
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would love to see the Headstone of Joseph Forsyth Johnson comissioned by Bruce Forsyth for his Great Grandfather. Is it finished yet?
Regards
Heather
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What has happened since this programme is that Bruce is now Sir Bruce, which is long overdue, given the amount of work that Bruce and his wife put in for childrens' charities 8)
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did anyone else watch june browns' who do you think you are?
marji.
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marcie,
There is a thread for the June Brown episode here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,548893.0.html
Nell
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Back to Brucie
WDYTYA is a great programme, but it has to be remembered that in order to qualify as entertainment and not damage the image of people we know, love and respect, the truth can be sanitised. I feel Brucie was worthy recipient of a knighthood, but if you look back at my comments made on the previous page, you will note that Brucie only scratched the surface of his ancestor's history. Had the WDYTYA team assisted him to dig a little deeper, their sympathetic portrayal of Joseph Forsythe Johnson (landscape gardner) as a misunderstood romantic would have proved to have been quite inaccurate. Roy G
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I saw this episode some time ago, and it was repeated here in Australia on TV last night.
Roy, am really interested in what you said about MORE abandoned wives and chldren of Joseph Forsythe Johnson. It would have made the programme even more compelling if they had mentioned this.
I am wondering if the wives kicked him out rather than him abandoning them, hence them declaring him dead (this may just have been what they told the children, which subsequently got passed down the generations) . ;) Although the programme implied that his wives knew nothing about his other life, I find it hard to believe that they can't have suspected (or known) that Joseph had other women if not children. They probably didn't want their children to know what kind of man their father was, and thought that by posing as widows they would keep face be seen as respectable. I don't understand why he admitted to fathering these additional children. Perhaps he was so well known that he couldn't hide behind an alias? :-\
The programme did give Joseph a bit too much of a warm fuzzy feeling - Bruce made a few disapproving comments about his ggrandfather's antics, though by noting the similarities between his and Joseph's lives, he seemed to accept that Joseph was just 'a bit of a lad' rather than the philanderer he was.